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Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


I... think it's fine? Ended up pretty much how the previous dozen or so chapters leading up to it indicated it would.

I was so scared we were going to get a Madoka or time loop ending. That would have invalidated everything the characters went through and made the story truly meaningless. I'm fine with a bittersweet ending like this.

Also, Eren was just concerned about his friends being seen as heroes to the rest of the world, of course the Jaegerists see them as traitors. They kinda did betray Paradise's best interests at the end, strictly speaking!

Strawberry Pyramid fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Apr 8, 2021

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Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Like, were people expecting a Naruto World Peace ending? Cause that would have been absurd, this feels earned and realistic.

Yeah, the hatred and wars and oppression will continue, but that's just human nature. The big thing is the Titans are out of the equation. Global disarmament means they have time now to slowly hash out peace over the centuries.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


chiasaur11 posted:

I'm going C-. The Historia stuff removes all the potential justification for her role in the last act. Also felt like a lot of the supporting characters didn't get full arcs in the end.

I strongly suspect Historia was originally supposed to get all the development she had with Ymir with Eren instead, and her relationship with Ymir ended up being a happy accident of writing. Would have made the flow between early Historia to Uprising Historia to Timeskip Historia flow better.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


mightygerm posted:

Regarding Ymir/Worm Really baffled about this too. Ymir actually really loved her rapist, picked Mikasa as someone who could "free her from the pain of love" (this still barely makes any sense), smiles as Mikasa kisses Eren's disembodied head, and then dies on her way back to her home planet, I guess. Regarding the worm, I was fine with it being unexplained as it was in the original Ymir flashback, but since it randomly became a thing in the final battle, its purpose was kinda bizarre. It escapes, Reiner wrestles with it, titanizes a bunch of people but not really since that didn't end up mattering anyways, and it seems to die offscreen for some reason and all we see is the vanishing corpse. I don't see why it added anything to the story or any tension to the final battle at all, it could have just been cut completely.

It exists to explain the origin of the Titan curse, and it being killed is how Ishiyama quickly ended the curse here at the end. I was kind of expecting a more conscious decision on Eren or Ymir's part for that, but this works well enough all the same.

quote:

Eren killing his own mom makes a lot of his motivation post-basement really bizarre too. We are really to believe that Eren killed his own Mom, killed 80% of humanity, in a really halfassed Lelouch gambit. At least there was world peace after Lelouch died, The world that Eren left them is worse than what they started with.

But the world doesn't have Titans anymore. That's huge. That means no more hosed up cannibalistic brood mare or indoctrination ghetto systems to maintain control over tactical nukes. It means Eldians really are just ordinary people now just like any other race. Both of those issues made any kind of real peace in the world impossible before this resolution. It reads as a pretty standard "disarmament is a prerequisite to peace" and "we need to recognize we're all human inside" morals to me.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


mightygerm posted:

Zeke's plan makes much more sense in that case though (in a global sense). You get rid of Titans, the remaining Eldians get to live out their lives, and 80% of humanity doesn't have to die.

I mean, at that point we're arguing which is the less reprehensible form of genocide to solve the problem of an entire race of people being genetic weapon slaves, which was brought up from the moment Eren made his big genocide speech from the Paths Broadcast System.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


I really enjoyed the post-timeskip arcs and I'm satisfied with the ending.

But I also enjoyed Ender's Game so what do I know?

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


I mean, Ishiyama said he "wanted to write a story without villains" and the central theme was "the world is cruel, and it is beautiful." Given those two facts, I don't see how it could have ended up otherwise?

This kind of reminds me of The Last Jedi backlash (a movie I also really enjoyed), where people got mad but were really bad at articulating why they didn't like it. Some were just chuds, but others were upset all the throrycrafting they did between movies was rendered pointless.

In this case, I feel like people were really wound up by the "aot is fascist apologia" hot takes and wanted the story to end on a strong denunciation of fascism and... it didn't do that. It ended on the note it always did: the world is beautiful, people suck a lot, but we're gonna keep muddling through and surviving anyway.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Eren and Zeke are what happen when you give godlike power to shonen protagonists who never emotionally mature past the start of their hero's journeys.

Imagine if Naruto had the Six Paths Nine Tails Sage whatever that last form was called... but he was still whining about having no friends and still just wanted to be Hokage so people would be forced to respect him.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


hatty posted:

I don’t get why Eren said he doesn’t know why he wants to do the rumble when we got a pretty good look at his motives in 130 and 131. Did he want to lie to Armin so he wouldn’t think he influenced him?

Eren led an unexamined life. He was genuinely shocked when Zeke casually noted Mikasa was probably just in love with him. The thing he needed most he never got was therapy so he could have even a single moment of introspection of all the poo poo in his head and in his life.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Put another way, Eren was if Shinji Ikari if Shinji was prone to violent outbursts instead of passive-agressive self-loathing.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Release the Ishiyama Cut, you cowards.

I just realized that the main trio were all in the wrong manga.

Armin wanted to be in Dr Stone.
Mikasa wanted to be a romantic comedy slice of life.
Eren wanted to be in a boxing manga.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


I see we've reached the "Indoctrination Theory" stage of the grieving process.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Asuron posted:

They all knew that he was doing it for them before this chapter, it’s just they could not reconcile with that idea and wanted to find another path. Thanking him for putting them in a world that is worse off is not something Armin of all people would be doing.

I dunno, if some I cared about windmill slammed a "Kill Everyone Besides My Family" button so that I wouldn't die... I feel like I'd feel thankful, if uncomfortable.

Feelings are complicated, you can't expect people to react perfectly rationally and morally to someone so close to them, you know?

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Side note, I really wish the anime season had been able to end on Eren's Declaration. I can't imagine how interminable the discussion about how awful the Sterilization Plan is for nearly a year will be for them without knowing Eren's alternative is even worse.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


The mental image of Mikasa carrying Eren's decaying decapitated head all the way back to Paradis just to tenderly bury it under a tree is very funny to me.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


bees x1000 posted:

maybe Eren should have, instead of telling Louise to throw the scarf away, taken it and burned it

Remember when Mikasa didn't comfort a kid dying of shrapnel wounds at all and just left her to die alone in horrible pain once she'd gotten what she wanted from her? Good times.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Kinda surprised Historia chat hasn't been more of a thing, since the last chapter either constitutes character assassination or an extremely uncharitable depiction of queer people.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Eej posted:

Unsure exactly how Historia counts as an uncharitable depiction of queerness

Maybe she allowed the Rumbling to happen and the Paradis junta to fall to fascism because she wanted revenge on the world for taking Ymir away from her and trying to force her into being a cannibal brood mare for the sake of her people, respectively?

We don't know how her convo ended, but maybe Eren really did convince her she is "The Worst Girl in the World" in the end. She seems pretty happy as queen of Nazi-land at the end there.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Ymir Likes To Watch.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


There is the uncomfortable implication in the last chapter that his friends were more pissed about how dishonest Eren was about his plan rather than the plan itself. They almost come off as if they'd be accepting of Genocide Plan if Eren had just been upfront about it all to begin with rather than go behind their backs about everything.

lol if Hange was the only one in the Paradise group who actually gave a poo poo about genocide of non-paradisians

Strawberry Pyramid fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Apr 23, 2021

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


I still say Historia was supposed to get her relationship development with Eren before Freckle Ymir came into the picture, it makes what happens to her in the timeskip make a bit more sense that way if she had been established in a love triangle with Eren and Mikasa the whole time.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


LordMune posted:

It's this. Zeke and Eren's ideological conflict boiling down to different flavors of genocide, the "good guys" ultimately triumphing through Mikasa's sublimation of her love into violence, the necessity of struggle - it's all presented through a fascist lens, and the "hopeful" note at the end rings hollow because in AoT's world force is the only thing that ultimately matters.

It doesn't go out of its way to say "Hitler is good actually" (except for when it does), it just says "Hitler is" and presents no meaningful contrast, much less an alternative.

It does however, go out of its way to say "The peaceniks, while admirable in theory, will handwring and twiddle their fingers while the guys with guns will Actually Do poo poo, the the latter will often kill the former sooner or later" at the same time, which is the real issue: it doesn't take a too hard stance on fascists, but boy does it have biting critique for doves in terms of getting results.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


It's a touch odd and raises a few questions when the most simple answer would have been "their ancestors were non-Eldian minorities in Paradis territory who, once persecuted, were then given elevated status in exchange for their complicity in the mindwipe scheme." As is, there's the implication there was and is a sub-group within the Eldian ethnicity that carefully avoided ever breeding with anyone of Ymir's bloodline.

So, Hapsburgian inbreeding ahoy, I guess.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


It ended. That made me happy. So sure?

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Hange's death really was kind of the signal that no truly happy ending was possible anymore, huh? Just kill the embodiment of both human hope and ingenuity before the final battle.

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Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Frionnel posted:

It has been years and i still don't understand the concept for these visuals.

All the shifter powers represent either a trait of Ymir's or of the worm's. In the case of the Beast, it's of the worm as being a progenitor of the Cambrian Explosion and the diversity of animal lifeforms from it. The Beast in general was rather confusing until the Worm/Ymir origin reveal and the reveal that past Beast titans were all sorts of animal forms.

It that sense, it makes sense from a somewhat cliched evolutionary fiction writing perspective that the last Beast titan was that of a great ape.

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