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Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

I think Eren feels guilty about Armin and Mikasa. Freedom has always mattered more to him than to anyone else and without realizing it at the time he was the one responsible for stripping Mikasa and Armin of their freedom (remember Levi was deadset on giving Erwin the injection until Eren blurted stuff about Armin's dreams which caused Levi to re-evaluate who should really continue living).

I think he wants to break the bonds they have to him so that when poo poo starts really going down they can each make their own choices about how to react rather than just instinctively protecting their friend.

Eren could even be suicidal.

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Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

I don't think there's even as much confusion there as people are reading into it - Eren says the Ackermans were created to protect the king, not that they can only ever imprint on inheritors of the founding titan. In fact in the very next speech bubble he says "once an Ackerman recognizes someone as their master" implying that it's not guaranteed who they would consider a master. And obviously as had already been pointed out, Levi bonded to Erwin who was never a shifter at any moment.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Onmi posted:

And yet he let Erwin die

Presumably there's a way for Ackermans to question their bond otherwise Eren wouldn't have bothered explaining the whole thing - during the serumbowl Eren points out how crazy it was of Levi to hesitate to give the serum to Armin saying something along the lines of how could he possibly have anticipated that Floch would bring him the dying body of Erwin right then and there and it does seem to have an effect on Levi. it takes some more prodding from Eren but you can kinda see the gears turning in Levi's head about what the right choice is as if he's questioning his nature.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Reminds me of the video showing how much of a head start you could give a human sprinter in a 100m dash before a cheetah would catch up. For a guy who's been playing 4d chess this whole time Zeke sure does make a lot of "miscalculations"

I really do feel though like Isayama is setting it up so that Eren and Zeke are trying to follow the correct course of action in terms of saving Paradis, otherwise so much of the tension being created is meaningless.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

I think that exactly what Zeke wants is probably neither of those, though I'd lean towards the former rather than the latter. Marley seemed completely in the dark as to his betrayal given the candid nature of the discussion between Magath and Pieck so if it's a plan to make Marley dominant then Zeke is flying solo for some reason (I guess he could be paranoid about being double crossed by spies?). I'm glad that Levi survived but all the Paradis higher ups deserve what is happening seeing as they KNOW the ENTIRE world declared war against them and they have done literally nothing for 6 months.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

morcant posted:

Maybe this is just rampant speculation but, we're seeing "paths" in action again, right? Not just Levi's crew getting turned, but the other people who've drunk the wine felt that moment too when Zeke screamed. Which looks to include Pixis, the Garrison, MPs, but not Hanji or Mikasa/Armin/etc.

But also it seemed like, right before Levi came to kick rear end his, that Zeke was talking to Eren? Or at him, if we're going the "Eren's being controlled" route, which... I could see, since this seems like a jump up in anyone's demonstrated ability to use the paths so far.


I don't think he was talking to/at Eren at all, I think that panel was just for dramatic effect to highlight how Levi 'doesn't get it' but his bro Eren does.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Asuron posted:


No matter what Eren’s actual plan is, his wholesale massacre of innocent people is an inherently bad act. Whatever good outcome he may have planned doesn’t wash away the suffering and destruction he caused, not just for the Marley civilians and the Eldian ghetto, but for the inevitable conflict he forced his own people into where many of them will die or suffer greatly.

Uhhh Eren's attack was literally during Marley's attempt to declare global war on Paradis so you could say the conflict was inevitable regardless of what Eren did

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Asuron posted:


Nah it was an attempt at winning over the people there, but given Marleys history it would take more than that to provide a united force against Eldia. That was the whole thrust of Willy’s and McGaths plan, have the terrorist attack take place in the ghettos with Willy as bait to draw them out, with military officials and diplomats present to go back with reports of the incident. It was designed to minimise the damage and also get rid McGath’s rivals.




The title of the chapter is also "Declaration of War"

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Asuron posted:

.... did you actually read what I wrote or?

I don’t know how I could have been more clear about how McGath and Willy planned for the attack and put him out in the open on purpose, in order to seal the deal because they knew Willy coming out talk to about it wouldn’t be enough. They talk about it in chapter 99 and McGath reflects on it in 101.

The title is also a reference to how Eren’s actions have started the conflict and the way in which it happened at how destructive it will be.

So you're seriously saying that if Eren hadn't attacked that Willy would have ended the whole speech with a "lol just kidding we're not declaring war on Paradis"? It's almost like they were doing both things, declaring war and setting the stage for the rest of the world to be sympathetic to Marley.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Asuron posted:

Does that make sense now?

Totally - Eren definitely played into Marley's hands by attacking when he did and completely ensured global support - but I think Isayama implied that the support would have come either way with this panel:



I think the fact that the declaration came from an eldian Tybur rather than a Marleyan also made the declaration carry more weight among the global audience.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Tenzarin posted:

There's also one flaw with Zeke's plan. I'm assuming that Zeke told Eren that together because of Zeke's bloodline they can use the founding titan power but there is also another he could work together with the same effect, Historia.

They've brought this up several times but the person of royal blood also needs to be a titan so this is pretty much out of the question without feeding Annie/Armin/Zeke to her - and *someone* (likely Eren or Yelena) was so opposed to that idea that they convinced Historia to get knocked up just so that it won't happen - timing her 9 months of pregnancy with the period of time that Marley would attack Paradis.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

In It For The Tank posted:

Although, if the person with royal blood needs to be a titan, why did Zeke tell Eren not to shake his hand? Unless Zeke would count as a titan even when he isn't in his beast form.

Also, on a similar topic, why didn't Zeke insist that he and Eren sterilize the Eldians right then and there once Eren seemingly agreed with his perspective? They had everything they needed to do it. I feel like there was a reason for the delay but I can't remember it. I know that Eren would refuse because he doesn't actually support Zeke's ideals but I wonder why Zeke didn't ask him to do it.

Those are some goods points - my thoughts about Zeke not wanting to touch are that there are a couple possible explanations - for one it seems that when a shifter touches someone of royal blood they derp out for a bit and momentarily lose control of themselves as memories flood in. Perhaps Zeke is so paranoid about Marley surveillance that he believes that it would arouse suspicion if he were to touch someone and then they both have a derp session doing so. Another explanation could be that there are memories Zeke doesn't want Eren to see as they could sway him away from his plan.

As to why they don't just sterilize everyone right then and there, I think that one is more straightforward - Zeke's plan will only succeed if Eldians retain control of the founding titan after they sterilize everyone. If Zeke just turns into the Beast titan in the middle of Liberio without an escape plan then he and Eren will both be eventually apprehended and fed to other Marleyan slaves where all their hard work would eventually be undone.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Tenzarin posted:



Some one is holding a baby soooo, wait! It also could be a titan holding a person, hrmmmmm.
Also the words are "you are free".


Doesn't mean anything, Historia is currently pregnant after all.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Liquid Dinosaur posted:

Where did that titan come from? And if it was trying to place Zeke back into its womb, was it just ridiculously aberrant, or did it do that because Ymir Fritz was assuming direct control?

It looks an awful lot like one of the titans Zeke transformed in the woods - specifically the one whose head he ripped off for ammo. I'm guessing that doing so didn't actually tear its nape? As for how it was tunneling underground/behaving to restore Zeke I think there is only one answer... P A T H S

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

You don't have to touch to play catch and Zeke literally says "It would be a bad idea to touch here" when they met in the asylum in Liberio, implying that the brothers have never touched. Additionally it's possibly that Zeke would have to be titanized in order for it to work. Most of this has been explicitly laid out in speech so idk where the confusion could be.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

In It For The Tank posted:

Lmao at the lowkey racism of looking at a titan and being like "looks like a Jew to me!"

Not necessarily saying you're wrong but the armbands/concentrations camps portion is pretty much unmistakably meant to evoke Jews in WW2 Germany (especially with the world of AOT being around WW2 level of technology). *Then* you pair that with the exaggerated features of pure titans and it becomes a lot easier to understand how someone who hasn't actually read the manga could jump to premature conclusions about what kind of a statement is being made.

Doesn't really excuse the writing in that article in any way but I don't think most people went straight to 'pure titans are jewish caricatures' without first accepting the parallels between Marleyan Eldians and German Jews after the basement reveal.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

A translation is out:

https://imgur.com/a/jYhMHXF

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Gabi owns

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

TheHan posted:

X-men pulled a ton from the civil rights movement and coded the mutants as a minority race who are righteous in their mission.

And then you have Magneto, a holocaust survivor, who becomes the embodiment of humanity's fear of mutants who wants to lead an army of mutants to destroy humanity... idk how you could possibly be glossing over that part especially since Magneto's perspective and goals are always portrayed as extremely sympathetic but outright wrong.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

rand_paul_its_happening.gif

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Either Eren's plan is to turn Armin into Helos pt 2 or everyone gon' die. I swear to god if the climax boils down to Mikasa finally saying how she really feels I'm going to be very unhappy.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

What I'm super curious about now is how Zeke is going to factor into the rest of the story. When they were time traveling through Grisha's memories it was strongly implied that there are parts of Grisha's memories that Eren had seen and likely interacted with that Zeke never got to see i.e. when Eren eats Grisha. Clearly something has to happen before Grisha turns Eren into a titan that gets him to be OK with it seeing as moments beforehand he is pleading with Zeke to not let Eren win. Also at some point Eren talks to Kruger about Armin and Mikasa which we still haven't seen happen. Prior to Eren and Zeke touching we've never seen Eren have the power to affect the memories of people in the past so I'd be willing to bet it's necessary that the two are in contact for that to be possible which would then mean that Zeke and Eren will touch again in that paths dimension before everything is said and done (well, unless getting Ymir's powers has thrown all of that out the window). Either way I'm hoping we get some more detailed exposition on Kruger - he has played a huge role in the story so far but so little is known about him.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

If Eren really wanted to kill everyone outside the walls, both Eldian and non-Eldian, why not just transform every Eldian outside the walls into colossal titans? I mean I guess it would take an eternity to build them all out of sand?

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

iamsosmrt posted:

I don't think he can unless they've been given spinal fluid.

That could definitely be the case, I guess I just had always imagined that King Fritz was able to create the walls spontaneously but he could have had them all injected before hand, even if it sounds like an insane task.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Elias_Maluco posted:

I think she is half Ackerman, half regular eldian

Well she's half Ackerman and half Azumabito which makes that a bit unclear, but even if she were full Ackerman it was stated by Eren that Ackermans get their abilities through a connection to the paths so maybe that's all it takes for Eren to be able to reach out to them.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Gantolandon posted:

This would be weird, because Eren hadn't had the Attack Titan yet.

He didn't have it yet either when he had the 'See you later, Eren' dream at the very beginning of the series yet everyone seems to think that is memories from the future, the anime even doubled down on it by previewing the titans rushing the walls.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

I wonder what crazy rear end poo poo Erwin would have had to say about all this

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

New Chappy:

https://imgur.com/a/OWXQyC5

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

https://imgur.com/a/7k1h9bv

Fast scanlation of the latest chapter

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

U-DO Burger posted:

also there is no convenient coincidence in this series that will ever top eren randomly running into dina's titan for the first time in 5 years at the exact moment he needed to

Well keep in mind that with what we now know about Eren sharing memories with prior Attack titan holders and essentially controlling them at critical moments in their lives it's entirely possible that Eren influenced Kruger to titanize Dina in the first place, having realized that it's a necessary link in the chain to get everything to where it is now.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

New scanlation: http://imgbox.com/qPEqOaO5

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Anyone got a mirror? Imgur wants my ph# for some godforsaken reason

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

I wonder if we'll ever see the memories Eren got from the warhammer titan, it seemed so important at the time that it happened but now we're so late in the game maybe it'll never be addressed.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Kerning Chameleon posted:

A chapter where a bunch of Nazi fucks get greased is always a good chapter. Hopefully they'll take care of the rest coming back on their victory lap.

It's a little less joyful when you remember it's Nazi fucks getting greased by Nazi fucks from a different country + those Nazi fucks' child soldiers + a handful of people who aren't Nazi fucks but did unwillingly aid Nazi fucks to sneak attack a city holding an international delegation.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Prediction: If everyone is getting their moment of redemption then Zeke's redemption will be to convince Ymir to, at least temporarily, resist Eren.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Ethiser posted:

Zeke was the one forcing her to do things, Erin gave her a choice and seems to want to set her free from eternal servitude.

Sure, but it's not entirely clear the level of awareness that Ymir has about the outside world - is she actually aware that she is aiding Eren to kill literal Billions of people? Would she approve of that? Not to mention that Zeke was lying half exploded on a field when Ymir appeared out of nowhere to save his life - was she commanded to do that by someone else or was that her own will? If it was her will why would she choose to save Zeke if he represents this awful slaver to her?

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Schwarzwald posted:

She needs Zeke (and his power) alive and available to Erin for him to access and free her.

That's what I had thought at first but if she's able to make choices like that on her own it really begs the question of how much of a 'slave' she really was (keep in mind that Historia still lives so Zeke wasn't Ymir's last hope or anything, if she's able to manipulate the 'real' world of her own accord there are certainly other ways she could have brought Eren/the attack titan to her). We've also seen that time doesn't appear to be linear in the paths dimension so it's entirely possible that Eren was the one who had Ymir rescue Zeke.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

If Ymir has been playing any angle other than what we have been shown then I also wouldn't be surprised if she actually was the one who let those pigs go, either of her own will or through some impossible paths fuckery it's somehow Eren that is responsible (Isayama would have to do a major asspull to explain how that could possibly work, though).

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Teriyaki Koinku posted:

E: I wonder why Ymir is keeping tabs on the situation? Either that, or the kid had a vision right before he got squished. [/spoiler]

My current theory is that Ymir is using birds and possibly other animals as 'cameras' to show Eren future events. Se we think that the boy is seeing Ymir before dying but really what we are seeing is that Ymir is pointing one of her animal cameras at the boy to ensure that Eren sees him being trampled. Whether this is affirmation of the inescapable causality that is forcing everything to play out as it is or evidence that Ymir is manipulating things... idk

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Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef

Eej posted:

Outside of the part where it involves using mental coersion over an immortal slave woman to neuter her people, maybe we

It does however mean you are putting the punishment on the oppressed people and sacrificing them for the oppressor's sake

Not that I'm necessarily defending Zeke's plan here but Ymir's backstory pretty much unequivocally showed us that no group in all of AoT has exclusive rights over the labels of 'oppressed' and 'oppressor' - the Eldians and Marleyans were bronze aged tribes when Eldians lucked into a obedient slave with the military equivalent of nukes in her blood and then oppressed the entire world for some millennia. With all of that in mind Zeke's plan to end the nuke blood doesn't really seem all that awful. Likewise Ymir is both an eternal victim and victimizer, entirely deserving of pity but possibly also some scorn (we've been shown that she has at least some degree of free will and yet it took 2000 years for her to do anything on her own).

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