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flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Simstim posted:

Still don't understand why titan village sent kids to tear down the walls.

Theory: maybe they weren't kids, maybe the titan serum dramtically slows down aging the same way it heals wounds, like Wolverine's healing factor. So Reiner's group weren't kids when Eren was a kid, instead they were already adults and appear to be the same age as Eren and the other recruits because they age slower. The problem is this idea still wouldn't explain Eren, who was injected with the serum after the initial attack.

You apparently didn't catch the part with Ymir talking about having stolen the Titan's power 60 years ago, despite that fact that she appears to be around 18 years old. So obviously Bert and Reiner are probably much much older than they appear.

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flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Sex_Ferguson posted:


Ymir's a different factor altogether. Her circumstances are very foggy and we still know next to nothing about her so for now, it's best to assume she's the only one of the shifters who's older than they look.

My thought is that you probably stop aging as soon as you get "infected" or whatever as a titan. Similar to vampires in Interivew with a Vampire. So Ymir was probably around the age she appears now (16-18) when she stole the titan's power or whatever. By this logic, Eren will not age past what he is now.

But who knows.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Jackard posted:

Reiner's flashbacks of Ymir show a younger version of both him and Berthold.

Yeah, looking back at this it appears you're right. I hadn't remembered that.

It's still unknown how long ago that happened, though. So they could be aging very slowly, but at least it appears they are aging at some rate.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Just noticed in the anime that as Reiner picks up Armin and runs off (after being "caught" by Annie's titan and carving the message about where Eren is located), as he is carrying Armin away his injuries heal and he lets off the steam that titans do when they regenerate. It's only for about half a second, but it's there. (Episode 17)

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Yeah after reviewing more clips of the fighting and seeing the steaming blood on several people, I will retract my statement about that being evidence for Reiner being a titan. Reiner's insistence on figuring out where Eren was in the formation and his easy escape from Annie when almost everyone else was immediately destroyed are bigger clues.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

So I had a thought. What if there are other walled cities/countries similar to the one we have seen so far (encompassed by Wall Maria). Anyone seen the recent film Oblivion?

If they were distant enough apart that the survey corps couldn't reach them on an expedition, there could be hundreds of other walled city-states.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Saagonsa posted:

Oh my god. I'm hyperventilating. Why was this made?

On the topic of other safe human settlements possibly existing, I honestly hope not. It sounds cool at first, but it really cheapens the whole "fighting for humanity's survival" aspect of the story.

Yeah but it possibly fits into the "big secret" the Wallists are keeping from everyone. There's a good chance it would completely destroy their society if people found out that there were other human civilizations out there.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

I'm more curious about the fact that nobody has brought up the beast titan. Didn't they see him climb up the wall? Isn't that a pretty big problem??

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

ArchangeI posted:

Then Levi takes off the kid gloves and kicks her rear end in 5 minutes flat.

More like 5 seconds. Even Mikasa is all like: :stare: :drat:

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

CodfishCartographer posted:

This is probably insane, but in the big page reveal showing Capt Ackerman's face, he resembled monkey trouble to me. Then hearing his mention of some kind of anti-human 3DMG, with this taking place shortly after Monkey Titan took a 3DMG. This is probably in no way true but it's just a random thought that occurred to me.

He has been a part of the anti-human task force or whatever since at least 3 years or so prior when he killed Historia's mom. The anti-human 3DMG is just a reveal of how seriously the MP's are about keeping the general populace under the thumb of the royals.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Syrant posted:

Look at all those people who don't know Hanji is the best character.

It's okay, they'll eventually figure it out when everyone else is dead and Hanji is the only one still alive, because she is the awesomest.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Missing Name posted:

Speaking of Hanji, are we just going to keep calling her "her" for the purposes of this thread? The author has said he hasn't given Hanji a gender yet.

It is ambiguous, so it doesn't really matter, but the anime has Hanji as a female, so I figure most people will default to that unless we find out otherwise.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Say Nothing posted:

Historia's sister who Grisha ate had a special ability. I'm guessing it was the titan voice control thing, which means Grisha would have it now?

And Eren ate Grisha, which is why he has the ability, as well as the memories of Freida and Grisha.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Sub Harrison posted:

What does giant mindless creatures who eat humans have to do with a secret history for over 2000 years? The story's starting to veer off the established track.

No idea, but if the priests are willing to sacrifice their lives to keep the secret, and every person who has inherited the memories from the Reiss family has decided to wipe people's memories instead of revealing the secret, it has to be a pretty big deal.

I think that the survey corps will learn the secret and end up facing a very tough decision themselves as to whether or not they should reveal everything to the rest of humanity.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

A couple of things that I noted reading this chapter:


1) Mikasa is asian, right? So she is Asian AND an Ackerman?? But Kenny's grandpa said those were two different minority groups, and she just happens to be both? Anybody else think this is an odd/interesting coincidence?

2) Levi is definitely the bastard kid that Kenny refers to his sister keeping.

3) Eren can command titans... so I could see him baiting historia turning into one, and then commanding her to do something else, like eat her dad or Kenny (or both), though at this point it doesn't look like that was really his plan since he genuinely seems like he has given up. However, I wouldn't put it past the rest of the squad distracting Historia. Levi or Mikasa then yell to Eren to use his power to make Historia stop fighting, so Eren comes to his senses after seeing a couple of his friends die (probably Jean + someone else) while trying to fight Historia without killing her.

4) Based on the timeline of Kenny's grandpa's story, it is very unlikely that the memory wipes have been going back much further than a few generations.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

I would guess that Lord Reiss doesn't want to inevitably be eaten himself when the time comes to transfer the power again (which he knows that it will).

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Hodgepodge posted:

I can't help but wonder if we're about to see the reason he isn't supposed to become a titan.

After hearing his story about his father and brother, I'm think he was just full of poo poo about not supposed to become a titan. I think he's just a coward and didn't want the responsibility.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Fister Roboto posted:

OK so now why are there a bunch of Japanese people with German names.

I think that was meant about the live action movie. The manga is very clearly not set in "near-future" anything.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Fister Roboto posted:

I know. Do they have names like Jean Kirschner in the movie?

According to the IMDB page, it appears that they do.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2072230/?ref_=nv_sr_2

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Vengarr posted:

I was in the shower this morning when it came to me, apropos of loving nothing: the Ape Titan simply has to be Grisha's brother.

Because that would make him Eren's uncle.

The monkey 's uncle.

:doh:

That's some next level pun right there.

Although the expression is "I'll be a monkey's uncle" and in this case the uncle is the monkey....

flowinprose fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jul 14, 2015

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Terper posted:

He'll probably do better than last time, but he went in and out of Titan form to seal those walls a couple times so he's not in primo condition.

Wait a sec... did he really do that more than once? I thought they were showing the same hardened "statue" from both sides of the wall, since on one side we see its face and on the other side its back... ?

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

There Bias Two posted:

They probably found a way to fire gas-powered spears made from his titan flesh that can pierce their necks.

This makes a lot of sense, while Eren was practicing his hardening they probably realized that they could fashion weapons out of the material he creates. Perhaps he even purposefully used his hardening ability into some kind of molds that they built or something. Reiner is gonna get hosed up pretty bad if they have weapons capable of piercing his armor.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

It's going to end up being a giant cock-tease because they'll get to the basement and find out that Monkey Trouble and Co. have already been there and destroyed/removed everything that Eren's dad left.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Vengarr posted:

I don't think they have any way of knowing where his house is. Especially since it got smashed flat by a Titan.

Hmm I figured surely since they knew who his dad was that they would be tracking where he lived to keep an eye on him.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Prison Warden posted:

Yeah, people keep lusting for main character death all the time, and not just in this manga but all sorts of media, like they're all an 80s era DnD campaign. Turns out the reason that doesn't happen is because it's makes for a loving awful story.

See: Game of Thrones

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Prison Warden posted:

I agree, it's a great example of what I'm talking about.

Well, it is and it isn't. Plenty of point of view characters have been killed off, while plenty of others have survived near death multiple times. The combination of both is what creates tension. If everybody always died, you would just get too numb to it and not even flinch when it kept happening. On the other hand if some major characters die (Ned Stark is a prominent example) while others live, it makes their escape from death all that much more dramatic and exciting.

So there is something to be said for killing off major characters, but you can't kill all of them.

Attack on Titan has had far fewer major characters die than Game of Thrones. So far none of the characters who have died in Attack on Titan have been nearly as prominent as Ned or Robb Stark. I think the biggest death so far has probably been what, Marco or Hannes? I guess you could sort of count Annie or Kenny, but they were villains so that works differently.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Prison Warden posted:

Oh, no, my point is that in Game of Thrones it's ALL unimportant characters who die, aside from Ned, the only characters who have died have been ancillary or secondary characters. It has a rep for a high body count, but that's mostly because a lot of the secondary cast gets thrown under the bus. Martin masks this a bit by having characters who seem important because they are in positions of power, like Robb for example, when actually they don't matter at all. He goes so far to kill people and then bring them back as zombies and such and by throwing in a bunch of useless perspectives in the last two books and then killing them. This is to basically serve the same purpose as Ned or Marco in Attack on Titan, to let the audience know that poo poo is "real".

I think we're both pretty much in agreement. I just think the characters who have died in GoT so far have on average been bigger players and/or more prominent characters than those who have died in AoT.

To me, an equivalent to Robb Stark or Renley Baratheon dying would be something like Hanji or Erwin dying. So far we haven't seen any of the "good guys" that prominent to the story go down.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

TWIST FIST posted:

reiner is going to get smashed into paste by bertolt

Nope... Bert is going to eat him and turn into the ARMORED GIANT TITAN! and then he's going to get blasted by thunder spears

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Monocled Falcon posted:

So Monkey Trouble threw some rocks so hard they exploded like canister shot and wiped out the entire survey corps except for the main characters. Like, wow, I've just lost complete interest in this arc. One, the whole rock throwing thing is stupid. Two, they just killed all the survey corps redshirts, so no more big fight scenes.

He crushed them before he threw them. You can see him breaking them into smaller pieces in one panel. Personally I think the rock throwing business is good writing, because they have already shown him doing this before (remember when he threw the rock from the top of the wall to collapse the tower where several of the survey corps were hanging out). It is a specialized skill that his titan form seems particularly well built for. The fact that he strategically crushes the rocks prior to throwing them to make it like a shotgun of cannonballs is pretty smart. It fits with the fact that he isn't a simple minded "warrior" like Bert and Reiner, but actually has a tactical mind.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Monocled Falcon posted:

I'll amend my statement to say I don't follow the logic very well. Like I can get crushing the rocks to make a shotgun, but taking out most of the survey corps, or at least multiple squads with two rocks? You can't kill an entire flock of ducks with two shells.


If you were shooting shells with pellets that were each half the weight of the ducks you might. Those rocks he was breaking up were huge, judging by the appearance of the houses that were being flattened to the ground by mere fragments of them.

They compare it in the manga to the enemy having "cannons." To me it looks like the fragments are probably substantially larger than typical cannonballs, which were in the range of 3-7 inches in diameter. An iron cannonball with 7-inch diameter weighs something like 40 lbs. Granted rocks would be probably less dense than iron, but suffice to say that there is a tremendous amount of force behind a one-foot diameter rock being hurled at a hundred feet per second (about 68mph). Multiply that times a couple dozen fragments being thrown at the same time... and it clearly wreaks some tremendous havoc.


Cute n Popular posted:

He lured the experienced members responsible for the perimeter to a single area using smaller titans then he wiped them out with a concentrated-ish shot.

Also this. Those guys were fairly grouped up.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

They're going to capture him and find out he's Grisha's brother to which everyone will be surprised.... he will reveal Grisha was actually a bad guy, as well. Then Zeke will be like "and we would've gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!" :argh:

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

They're going to give the titan serum to Armin, and he's going to go crazy-titan and eat Bert AND Reiner and become a colossal armored titan with super powered strategy skills on top of it ... it could happen, rite?? :ohdear:

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Except how are they going to find it now in the midst of all that rubble?

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Bilirubin posted:

One immediate thought springs to mind: why are the wall titans facing *inwards*. If they were elite soldiers of the king, surely they would face out?

I think that was just a thing to make the reveal come across easier, by showing the reader an enormous eye. It would be a little weird if there were just some hair on the back of a head or something.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

They could've just added a comma and made it: "Attack on, Titan" and then it sounds like some one giving a command.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

muike posted:

So who's side is Zeke actually on? Is he still following Bert and Reiner's original mission?

He certainly can't be too happy with Grisha, but seems sympathetic to Eren.

Yeah he's definitely attempting to gain control of the coordinate and is the leader of the mission that Bert and Reiner were a part of.

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

In It For The Tank posted:

Mule Titan has gotta be a shifter. It can talk, it follows orders, it strategically rescued Zeke and fled of its own volition, and it didn't show any interest in eating people except when it was trying to kill Levi and Hange.

Also wasn't there some picture that showed the ancient titans fighting and had one on there that looked similar to the mule titan in the background?

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Atreiden posted:

Between reading this and watching the man in the high castle, I have become ultra fascist. Please send help.

Nobody send him help! He'll just indoctrinate them and recruit them to his cause!

flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Sub Harrison posted:

The bloodline stuff still confuses the hell out of me. Back when Eren gained the armor power someone mentioned the armor vial had "Braun" written on it in Japanese, so does every titan power have a specific family?


Braun is Reiner's last name, so I would say that's a distinct possibility. We've been given several hints so far that titan powers seem to manifest differently in different people/bloodlines. The jaw titan, beast titan, and coordinate titan so far have evidence that their titan powers do not develop fully in certain people.

JahRoo posted:


w.r.t "Royal Blood" I think the major distinction is between normal Eldians, who were the same race as Ymir and served as her subjects but were not directly related to her, and direct descendants of the Fritz family, who are related to her by blood. In this case, Zeke has royal blood if we believe that Dina Yeager is actually a member of the Fritz family by blood, but Eren is not since it's not stated anywhere that Grisha is royalty himself. This would also explain why Zeke has certain powers reminiscent of the coordinate, while Eren, despite having the coordinate, isn't able to really control the power.


I think Zeke's deal is tied to some additional abilities of the beast titan when utilized by an ideal host. The fact that the titans he creates can walk around freely in moonlight is evidence that there is something going on beyond just the fact that they follow orders reminiscent of the coordinate.

flowinprose fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Apr 30, 2017

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flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

Turin Turambar posted:

Even with the 2 titans they have right now, I wonder how the hell they sun 32 ships. Even with a surprise attack it's hard to believe they can destroy all, before 1 or 2 retreat into the ocean. Makes me wonder if they have some other new technology.

I'm sure they didn't send all 32 ships at once and then just decide not to send any more for the next 4 years. They were likely sent in several groups over the course of the 4 year time frame.

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