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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Hodgepodge posted:

That's the problem with trying to write a Grimdarkitydarkdark story. If you're half-decent, eventually you end up with a cast of characters who are too awesome to just kill off.
Has Berserk killed off anyone significant in the present?

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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Wow. Probably one of the best chapters we've had. The art gave an extremely strong sense of space and you could really feel how things fit together in every scene.

The torch scene was great. Relieving but confusing when the two groups meet up. Really nicely written.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


The manga started with kids like Armin pushed into war early and making decisions like super brilliant adults and now it's adults acting like dumb children

I guess we've gone full circle?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


keeping reiner alive over and over was irritating enough but zeke is the lamest character in the series. Pls stop doing this!!!

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Raxivace posted:

Yeah honestly my guess at first, after finishing season 1, was that we would be dealing with evil wizards that live in a podunk village on the other side of the continent or something, not people with airships and such.
I knew the culprits would be humans, I didnt know if we were looking at a futuristic civilization that decided to intentionally stunt their own development by putting all of humanity in that situation after getting too technologically advanced and blowing up most of the world with nukes or whatever (only reason I'd suspected this is how sophisticated 3D gear was, also I'd recently watched gurenn lagann) or if it was a broader human world outside who set it up.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I get more annoyed than I should thinking about all the great characters that were sidelined in order to make this manga about zeke, gaby, and reiner.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I dont think she shot eren because she didnt learn anything, she shot eren despite learning something because she thought the cost of zeke and eren touching was too high. I dont think she'd do a sasha murder again, she doesnt despise eldians but she still doesnt believe in what eren is doing (i cant keep track of what version of erens plan she thinks is going to happen).

Problem is, I still dont really care about her because I dont have any reason to like her.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I dont think the plot borrows much from Muv Luv tbh. Just the seriousness with which the the monsters are handled.

I dont know Eva very well but I think a lot of those plot points apply to it. So this is more a case of some common themes coming up in multiple things.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Sep 30, 2019

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Am I crazy in thinking hange had more screen time than anyone post timeskip? It seems weird to off her like this after all that.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I'm still mad about Sasha 3 years later.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


(this discussion should be spoilered)

Is Sasha in the picture?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


If Ymir weren't an Eldian he would be happily crushing her under his feet right now. I wouldn't praise his kindness.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Does it really make a difference to you if the guy who extinguishes all life from seven continents is sad inside?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I didn't even realize there were characters I still liked until you brought up Pieck. She's not gonna make it, is she.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Maybe it's as anime simple as Eren wanting his friends to defeat him so the rest of the world forgives them (but failing that, he makes the world "safe" for Eldians).

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Are there millions? I thought it would be a thousand at most.

EDIT: The wiki claims it's tens of millions.... that makes no sense wtf.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


hatty posted:

I really could not care less about the Warrior parents
same. This is really over in 3 issues? I'm glad Armin is at least going to have an important role in the conclusion because I can't think of anything important he's done in the last fifty chapters.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I'm not upset that Pieck gets to be a badass but keen observers already knew she was. Tbh though I'm still out here wondering why Hange became the main character of the story for thirty chapters then got killed off for no reason.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I was curious and looked up some of the popularity poll results for AoT and Erwin was really popular even before his death. I had no idea.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


My problem with that is I don't care about Ymir. She didn't grow up with all of the other characters in the story and she's a stranger to everyone, including the reader. If Ymir becomes the only character that matters I see it as a huge disappointment.

(I don't believe that the conclusion of the story will be Eren got Sasha, Hange, millions of others killed because he felt bad for Ymir.)

No Wave fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jan 8, 2021

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Eej posted:

Well, a world where the state has rationally decided that an entire bloodline has to be condemned into being broodmares for the military as a back up plan to enforce peace with the rest of the world is a world where similarly hosed up things can be happening everywhere under the guise of logical planning. There's no way Eren can see the fate that lies ahead for his friend so he's going to do the only thing he can to save her and her descendants from that fate, either destroy the world or end the threat of Titans for good. It's not like he's happy about it and he is clearly feeling every innocent life he takes but he also can't turn a blind eye to Historia being reduced into an incubator.
Can he turn a blind eye to the millions of children he's crushing under his feet?

No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Jan 11, 2021

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


You can't really blame a guy for exterminating every other human on the planet to ensure the safety of his in-group, especially if he looks sad while doing it.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


mightygerm posted:

I really can't see a good way out of this situation.

Putting aside PATHS/future sight stuff for a moment, Eren was put into a convoluted trolley problem where his choices were either let his friends/people die or kill everyone else. I really don't think any half measures would work, mostly for the same reason Jean (linked) did. And the sense of urgency on Eren's part had to be a major factor, there's no guarantee his or Historia/Zeke's inheritors would be able to maintain the power through coups and assassination attempts/etc., and eventually military technology will tip the balance where the world could put Paradis in a MAD scenario. Hange and crew have no good solutions but out of a justified sense of not wanting to be an accessory to mass murder, want to stop him no matter the consequences. So even if they win, if they return to Paradis will they be received as traitors or heroes? AFAIK Yeagerists still control the island since Pixis/etc are all dead.



So Eren goes through with it, and it seems at this point most of Marley and a good portion of other nations have been Rumbled. How can Armin possibily forge a peace out of this? The survivors will want vengeance and feel like the Eldians represent an existential threat to the world. It seems like the story is moving in a direction where the Titan powers will vanish by the end, but I don't think that will ease the pain for the millions that have died by Eren's hand. I just don't want a kumbaya/Geass ending when SnK has shown us time and time again that their world doesn't work like this.
The argument is basically that as soon as other nations get nuclear weapons they'll level Eldia but that doesn't make any sense. a.) This world is centuries off of nuclear weapons and isn't even aware they could ever exist and b.) our modern world has persisted with mutually assured destruction. I don't think this reasoning is accurate (it's totally fair for Jean to believe it though).

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Fair, technology setup is weird enough in this story that anything could happen within in a decade. I do think it would be beyond Paradisians' expectations though.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Eej posted:

Counterpoint: all of recorded human history
I'm not sure what you're referring to. The Azumabitos' reaction seems much more realistic to me - they see an opportunity to make money off of Eldia's natural resources and want to exploit them. It would make a lot more sense for industrialized nations to jockey over who gets to exploit the emerging economy and natural resources of Paradis for gain, not cheer an outright massacre to the last man.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jan 12, 2021

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


You're calling me unrealistic because I don't believe the entire industrialized world would mobilize and kill every person in a country, at great risk, for no gain. That's fine, we can agree to see the world differently.

EDIT: It all makes less sense the more I think about it... Willy Tybur was willing to die to make sure every nation in the world got locked into an unwinnable war vs Eldia, because of things that happened a century ago? And Eren, who has the power to see every possible future, chooses the course of action that makes Paradis look as scary as possible? Who knows, we have three more chapters I guess.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jan 12, 2021

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Eren already "won", whatever's happening now is something he's letting happen.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


There were other plans that could maybe have saved her but killing every human on the planet was the only sure thing Eren could think of without talking to anyone else about it.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Feb 4, 2021

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Those aren't the only three possible outcomes. We're even presented with a plan where Historia inherits the beast titan and passes it on. There are tons of other possibilities too involving talking to other nations or showing that you can rumble but not going through with it. Are they risky? Sure. But this isn't a trolley problem.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 4, 2021

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Sjs00 posted:

I hope Hange doesn't die
Yeah - she and Sasha are the two characters I hope survive everything.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


A lot of really important stuff happened.... feels like this should have been more than one chapter.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Eren wanted to get stopped. He saw the future and made this really terrible one happen because he knew something really specific would happen (ie he would get stopped publicly by Eldians). It's an ending I know a lot of people didn't want but it's the only thing that makes sense atm.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


KazigluBey posted:

It's going to be much, MUCH worse than that, everyone worked together to stop the rumbling so this puts a stop to the ongoing genocide, everyone is freed from the ghetto as their humanity is recognized. All crimes are forgiven and forgotten. Happy ending where everyone still alive responsible for suffering gets off scott-free
You mean, like, Willy Tybur and the VIPs of Marleyan society?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Beefstew posted:

Yeah, that's more accurate, but I think my central point stands. He refuses to accept a certain outcome, even if he logically (as logical as genocide can be, anyway...) knows that it would be a greater sin to do the Rumbling. That's the biggest reason why I'm skeptical of the Code Geass/God Emperor of Dune stuff, because it feels almost like a psychological compulsion at this point, his lust for freedom that's enslaved him.
What I'm saying is that my current read is him Rumbling from a more emotional perspective than a pragmatic/calculated one.
He can see the future. Being able to see the future is like... ultra mega sci fi calculated pragmatic.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Feb 10, 2021

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


So we think Eren is somehow going to be allowed to survive after killing hundreds of eldians and millions of non-eldians? Or the last panel is someone else holding the baby?

No Wave fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Feb 17, 2021

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I believe the leak. It fits with the other leaked stuff (POTENTIALLY HUGE SPOILERS) that Mikasa, being an Ackerman and one of the only unaffected people, has to go in and kill Eren to end nu-rumbling.

Mikasa being forced to kill Eren fits most of what we've seen (with Eren crying at the start of the manga after waking up with Mikasa standing over him, Eren trying to get Mikasa to hate him, what all that Ackerman stuff was about, etc), and this will end up being a god emperor/lelouche ending where Eren is the world's villain.


All could be fake, but this was roughly what I was expecting.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Mar 5, 2021

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Aurubin posted:

I don't read the manga, but awhile back I was curious what the hell the show with the big naked people was about, so I read a bunch of spoilers and was curious to see how this was going to end.

That said, I remember reading a paraphrased quote by the author where their original intention was to have everyone everywhere die to the Titans. Which would track if all the susceptible people suddenly get turned into them. So I think the spoilers are real. Endings are hard.
According to an interview the ending was roughly envisioned to be something like the movie The Mist. Would have had to be a totally different story ofc. Manga writers usually don't have more than a rough flexible idea of where their story might end, they're just fighting for survival their first hundred issues.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I'm very curious to see what the reception to this will be. People had such crazy takes on what they thought the story was about and who they thought Eren was, and that all should be totally upended by what we're seeing.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


mightygerm posted:

The last panel in particular. Why is Ymir smiling? Also this series of events makes Mikasa out to be a delusional, yandere, necrophiliac, which is not really where I saw this going. I can't see how anyone is happy with this, and I don't even care about Mikasa.
I don't think she's either of those things. My understanding is she was shown a potential future where she and Eren waited out his four years together and left Paradis to its fate and it wasn't right. She loves Eren but was the only person who could kill him to reverse the titanization (ok, Levi could have but it would have been less dramatic).

As for her kissing him, she's not like frenching him. I mean it's weirder than kissing him on the forehead but it's her way of saying goodbye and admitting she loved him.

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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


bees x1000 posted:

so actual korean scans are out somewhere?
Yes - these black bars may no longer be speculation. I'll stop posting about it though, and I probably shouldn't have in the first place.

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