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Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
You had me at Dog with Pipe good sir.
This looks like a wonderful game, and the graphics are pretty impressive.

wdarkk posted:

Glad to see this has started. I wish they'd bring the PS3 version over, I don't want to have to buy an xbox just for one game.
Or you could live in a country where this game wasn't even sold. :v:

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Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Admiral H. Curtiss posted:

When you encounter two or more enemy groups that are close together, all of them join the battle. The battle system can only handle eight or so enemies at the same time, so when the total's more, new enemies will spawn into the battle after you've killed some. It's a pretty neat mechanic, although apart from the additional challenge there's no positive aspect to it as far as I can tell.
Since we're on the Subject of Xbox rpgs, Blue Dragon, the first jrpg on the 360, had a similar system. And the more enemy groups you had, the more rolls on a sort of battle bonus roulette you'd get. It was a pretty decent mechanic.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
You know, I actually think that the in-game graphics look better than the anime cut-scenes. Guess it's the depth or something.
And again, the Sakura trees strike. I'll give it a pass because this game is all kinds of excellent otherwise.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
No dammit, I don't want extra original content that fleshes out the story and background. Only the glorious Japanese deserve it, not use western ingrates. :colbert:

(Hell yes)

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
I would quote the Book of General Ignorance on the subject, but I lent it.
What's most fascinating about it is that the Dogs at least SOUND different by region. In Iceland it's Voff, by the way.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
My favourite is Repede. The only way he could be better if he was a wild cat instead of wolfdog. Wolfdog is good second choice though.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Admiral H. Curtiss posted:

Ah yes, this scene. This scene right here is probably what made most people decide that Yuri is one of the best, if not the best JRPG protagonist there is. It's very powerful, especially the first time you see it, because you don't expect something like that to actually happen in a JRPG.

Well done, Vesperia writing staff.

Holy. loving. poo poo.

I was already imagining that this is what it should have been like and then it was.
This is awesome. I am now really really sad this game was never imported here.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Gullwhacker posted:

Well, one version was. Heck, this is the game I got a 360 for. And that was before knowing about this scene.

Just wow.

Not to the cold Island of Iceland it wasn't. :argh:

Honestly, if buying online wasn't a huge bugger I'd be doing it all the time.

Really, that scene is good in so many ways. It contrasts him so well against the ostensibly more JRPG hero-ish Flynn (His first name wasn't Errol was it), who just keeps on trucking with the pointless task of reforming the system from within.

Although like Stabbey says, no body no death. And I wish that one time they'd mutilate the body to make absolutely sure. All it would take would be a small decapitation you know, it isn't hard when you have a sword.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Malachite_Dragon posted:

It's available on XBL? Hot drat

gently caress me.
Maybe I should renew that thing one of these days. I never bothered after it expired because it cost money and PS Store was more convenient here.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Fedule posted:

What is it with companies and their total inability to comprehend exchange rates? Why can no one get this right? Even on Steam, stuff is priced incompetently. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are some complete packs that sell for more than all their component games when bought in €.

I'd happily pay $30 for a downloadable copy of this game. €30? Less happy.

(UK cost is £20, which is about spot on, I think)

How lucky I am that my currency is so utterly in the shitter it doesn't matter at all to me!
gently caress, now I think about it I doubt it will work because we're not in the EU. And I probably can't create fake profiles like I can with the PS.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Admiral H. Curtiss posted:

You can, but GoD games are both console-region and IP-locked as far as I know.

Well gently caress.
Once again the glorious "independence" of my lovely land stabs me in the back.

Fedule posted:

gently caress Microsoft.
For the longest time I expected to never, ever, support them.
Then a friend of mine decides he no longer wants that warui amerika ekusubaksu in his house and asks me to keep it. Damndest thing.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

Seriously, stop with the innuendo about some sort of upcoming reveal, especially when several people who have actually played the game have said that they didn't see said reveal coming the first time they played.

All you're doing is soft-spoiling something for those of us who've never even played the game. Now we're all going to be expecting something to happen.

Yeah, I realize this game doesn't have a thread in games for you to wank in with the spoilers but this isn't really appreciated in any game and was probation worthy in some of the more dramatic games, like Nier. So please cut it out guys?

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Admiral H. Curtiss posted:

Oh, and because I'm sure someone notices and is going to want a bigger version of Repede here:



Hell yeah.

Tint it purple and this would be a Saints Row 3 character.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

a dog posted:

I know a good idea when I hear one.





Ohhhh maaaan.
Now that thing is an avatar.
Something like, "No One Dog should have All the Bones" or something. No one Dog Should piss all the Places" fits the game more, but it's a bit out there.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

resurgam40 posted:

Hey, I'm sitting there right with ya. The ol' Backwards Name gag is hundreds of years old, but it still trips up some people. To be fair, Yaeger is not exactly a common word for an english speaker (or a german speaker, come to that; isn't the spelling jager? Well, ith the two dots over the O, of couse).
No, Yaeger is phonetically similar to the correct Jäger, as when you can't do the ä you should use a "ae" instead and Y in english sounds like the German J. Also Ö and ä are not the same.
Is it katakana fuckery again? What is his name in that?
Also, I'd completely forgotten our faux-Deutscher, so it got me. :shobon:

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Polsy posted:

Yeah, it's イエガー and ラーギイ, so something like ee-ay-gar and rah-gii (listen here, with bonus 'hear the Japanese LPer say Yaeger'). It's not as "obvious" even when you're looking for it (well, speaking as not a native Japanese speaker)

edit: actually this reminds me that the Japanese version (even on the 360) highlights words all over the place, not sure why they took that out. Not that it's necessary either, but.
Huh. There's something funny about how far the LP concept has gone.
But yeah, I thought it might be that, because of how constrained Japanese can be when going far afield phonetically speaking.

That highlighting thing, no idea.

(And drat, I feel emasculated listening to that considering my scores in Japanese. Why does it have to be so hard?)

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Glazius posted:

Sir or madam, I have it on good authority that cactus juice is the quenchiest.
Hell, I remember in one game where instead of taking water they instead just took an AK with them and that worked out fine. At least they have some water with them.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Senerio posted:

You know you've been playing too many JRPGs when you see "Entelexia" and immediately know the pronunciation.
En-tell-ick-kay-uh, if you skip over cutscenes.

Edit: Yeah, what he said. I suck at finding proper syllabic onomatopoeia.

But shouldn't it then be "Antelecea" ?
Like in Orichalcea?

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
Ah, the age old "Fix the System from within" or "Break it down/ignore it". It's handled rather well this time and it's not often they give equal measure to both of them. It's actually a fairly interesting discussion, but I don't know if this is the right place to discuss it.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Admiral H. Curtiss posted:

I could care less about guys.
You deserve to eat nothing but sand for using that horrible loving phrase, man-carer.

And the surprise at Ravens' actions is puzzling, are people really so unfamiliar with the Bavarian Fire-drill? Not really breaking new ground there at least.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

vdate posted:

Really, while most of us are probably familiar with the complete confidence ruse, I think some of it comes from the fact that Raven really doesn't seem the type to carry it off. Here's a dude used to lurking in the background smiling- it's what he's done most of the time he's with us. Mostly he doesn't seem like he has the sense of presence that would be needed to successfully execute such a plan.
The Bavarian Fire-drill is something that's especually common amongst trickster archetypes, just like Raven. Dudes like John Constantine, Axel Foley or Dirk Gently.

It's not all about confidence though, it's about abusing the fact that people mindlessly follow orders. Confidence is a part of it, but it mostly has to do with people trained to automatic responses.

But yeah, don't mean he can't have more to his character than: "Old, lecherous, Guild-member" though. It would be cool if he was a defector like Yuri, although I don't really see it.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

SIGSEGV posted:

It's not attached to tricksters, it's the kind of trick attached to people with an enourmous presence. It's the captured enemy general in a crappy ill fitting officer disguise with a commanding presence that walks in the guard house and screams about where the gently caress is your patrol, I haven't seen it in a full hour now, go find them sergeant, me, my aides and my guards will wait here. Come on! Unfuck yourself and hurry up, we don't have all night, if there's a perimeter breach I'll have you cleaning up people's combat jacks.
I didn't say it was exclusive to trickster characters, but I seriously gave you three tricksters, one from comics, one from movies and one from literature who all performed stuff like this dawg. I can drag up some examples from Pratchett, some from old Buster Keaton movies or whatever, but it's not really that important whether a trickster did some social engineering or not, so I'll just drop this.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

vdate posted:

Oh, I agree. It was merely something interesting to kill time with between updates. Penguin, funny you should mention Pratchett. I mentally refer to this kind of thing as Lipwig's Principle because of Discworld.
It first comes up in, Moving Pictures in text but all of the Granny Weatherwax books after the first feature it prominently. But yeah, ol'Moist, being a confidence man himself is all about this. Projection is just a trick like any other, I use it all the time myself.

This made me think wonder about parallels between Pratchett, who makes solid literature that plays with its' genre and then this game, that's been fairly clearly playing against "anime-JRPG" types.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

SIGSEGV posted:

Good writing and broken stereotypes? I remember Pratchett's advise for writing fantasy as basically being "read anything but fantasy" because you'll bring new ideas instead of wallowing in the ideas you've just read.
Yeah, the problem with a lot of niché fiction is that it's very incestious. And just like with people if there are no defects then that's no problem but it tends more to draw forth and exaggerate the flaws.

SIGSEGV posted:

I love the :tvtropes: bashing thread for this, it's great for this kind of stuff.
Gods, I can never keep on top of that thing. I remember reading the first few pages, then overnight there were like 20 of them. Cripes. When did they get that little guy anyway?

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
Tsk, he looked away. He is just a kid.

Always does seem a bit off when they do those overly specific Japanese things, like the kowtow or Seppuku. Still, it certainly was dramatic. Would have expected Raven to be the second though.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Malachite_Dragon posted:

"A monarch who shows concern for her subjects?! Step down immediately, you are clearly not fit for the throne :colbert:"

Seriously, what the gently caress, Drake?
Compassion can come at a dear price. If you set yourself up as saviour, what do you do when they can't be saved? What do you do when saving a few dooms the many? The people are disillusioned, maybe enough so to rebel. Power in an absolute monarchy is almost always quite precarious.
poo poo ain't simple, yo, is what I'm saying. I ain't saying it's right either though.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

resurgam40 posted:

Quoting for truth. These are valid points, and should be things an heir to the throne should think about. On the other hand, if you care nothing for your subjects- or worse, outright hate them- and ignore their needs entirely, you could travel down the path of tyranny, and then the people would rebel out of fear. Heck, you don't even need to hate people to become a tyrant: Estelle just healed a man against his wishes, saving his life, but denying his personal freedom. In a certain light, isn't that tyranny? But that of course is a whole other kettle of fish.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Drake deliberately acted in an antagonistic way to make Estelle really consider what she was doing.
Yeah, but the important thing is trying to see what effects your actions will have. Deciding on being loved or feared, the balance of power in a kingdom (How is the distribution of power in their kingdom? Bugger if I know).
But yeah, the main point is making her think on her actions, considering them. The Healing Princess the myth is a good thing, gives people hope and poo poo. But yeah, he's pullin' a Socratic troll methinks.

Elite posted:

I'm sorry but this just doesn't make any sense to me. Following your reasoning to its logical conclusion advocates never doing anything for anyone just because you might possibly encounter a problem beyond your abilities much later on. "I'd better not help him with his easily-solvable computer issue else I'll become the 'computer guy' and he might come to me with all sorts of things I can't solve"
Oh, the folly of youth that has never worked in an office. "How do you put those cat pictures on your email?" "DP, the Printer isn't working again" "DP, I can't understand this new word, help me". :negative:
Uhhh, no wait, ignore that. You seem to be extending it along personal grounds, as an extension of her own self rather than her station. That's, missing the point, which explains why you do not understand my train of reason.

Elite posted:

I'll grant that disillusionment can be a powerful phenomenon, but I think it arises more due to letting a myth escalate than a direct response to your accomplishments. People are not all-powerful so in the fullness of time they must always face tasks that are beyond them, they just need to recognize when they are out of their depth rather than struggling to do the impossible. Really so long as you remind everyone that you're a mere mortal they cannot blame you for not moving the goddamn stars.
They can and they will, would. People are not truly rational and even less so the "common man" of, well, any time really. Why did you establish a cult of personality (Which is essentially what it ends up becoming) if you did not have that power? And do you really think that you can reason out a reputation? That, I don't see as logical. Hell, if she stayed a myth it isn't a problem.

Elite posted:

Estelle had the capacity to help people so she helped people, that seems like a responsible thing for any would-be leader to do. Sure she could stand to put more thought into it, but I don't see anything wrong with what she actually did there. Now a much more compelling argument to get her to exercise caution before acting comes from that Belius encounter where her eagerness to help ended up backfiring massively.
Estelle the Person, sure, she can help people any way she can. Sometime that help has bad consequences, but I'd think that a few mistakes are easily worth the price.
That poo poo don't fly when you have power. When your decisions effect far more than yourself and your surroundings. When the lives of others, policy, politics, all of these are on the line, you don't rush, you don't act mindlessly, whether out of altruism or savagery.

Oh, and now I notice Psion already made these same points, pretty much. Especially about reading books, everyone should do that, literature is "rad" and "Cool", like the kids said in the 90's.

Actually, what Charlett says about Confucianism is pretty interesting too, because from what I can gather the idea of what a state represents is pretty drat fluid across time and geography. Dunno, that's a bit off tangent though.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Get over yourself, Rita, you're fifteen years old. Is it really that surprising that there are other people who know more than you do?
The conceits of youth are at least somewhat more justified in JRPGs where they implausibly seem to be over-competent.

Also, good to see Raven gettin' the respect he deserves. That guy's a veteran and those whippersnappers seem to have missed that.

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Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
Am I supposed to recognize brunette there?

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