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More on marathon: Marthon 2 was made open source shortly before Bungie was bought out by Microsoft. It was seen as sort of a goodbye to the loyal mac bungie fans. Aleph One is based on this code, which has made marathon available on pretty much every computer under the sun About a decade later (IE real soon), bungie is going to be releasing Marathon Infinity's source. Among other things, this should allow Aleph One to play back Marathon Infinity movies (it currently can only reply marathon 2 movies without falling out of sync) Always cool to see news of these old games in the modern times. DamnGlitch fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jun 24, 2011 |
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Jun 24, 2011 18:47
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You know what would be the worst loving thing? A Duke 3D map that was just a giant open room filled with Protozoid Slimers and their eggs. No warning in the title, it just loving drops you there. Those little bastards from hell have made me nearly poo poo my pants way too many goddamn times.
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Jun 24, 2011 18:50
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I stopped being scared of them as soon as I figured out they were completely harmless for as long as you held down the Quick Kick button.
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Jun 24, 2011 18:51
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I think I've figured out how to make  infinite spawning Protozoid Slimers using Build.If you shoot an opened Slimer egg with the shrink ray and wait for it to return to normal size, it will hatch another Slimer. So if you rigged up a wall-mounted shrink ray and trained it on a slimer egg, it could keep regrowing (and therefore re-hatching) the Slimers. Maybe link it to a teleporter so they can spawn in from vents or something. I'm thinking a scenario similar to the "fight off headcrabs with a crowbar until your cargo elevator reaches the bottom of the ramp" one from Half-Life.
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Jun 24, 2011 19:18
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Zero Star posted:I think I've figured out how to make You horrible, horrible motherfucker. 
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Jun 24, 2011 19:21
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Also if you want to play some Marathon multiplayer, if you grab the XBLA version and the 2 map packs, you basically get every single official Marathon mutliplayer map ever made. Total Carnage contains levels from Marathon 1 and Infinity. The Jjaro pack contains all the specific Jjaro texture set levels. I did add a few things to the levels, some extra items and ammo (Marathon 1 was pretty weak with ammo drops) as well as ensuring every map in Marathon 1, 2 and Infinity has a Hill for King of the Hill and a Skull for Kill the man with the ball.
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Jun 24, 2011 19:30
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For anyone who's wondering what we're talking about, because of how nonspecific all of the enemy names in DN3D are, it's these little shitballs:
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Jun 24, 2011 19:35
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Well we somehow managed to reach thread number three without SlimerChat. It was a good run I suppose... HEY ON AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TOPIC Return of the Triad is out! It's a fan-made sequel to ROTT as a Zdoom mod. I think that ticks all the boxes, really...
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Jun 24, 2011 19:40
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hippieman posted:Also if you want to play some Marathon multiplayer, if you grab the XBLA version and the 2 map packs, you basically get every single official Marathon mutliplayer map ever made. That's pretty slick. I've wanted a shot at the XBLA version but I don't own an xbox. Plus, I already have a pretty esoteric keyboard style, don't know if I'd like the game pad. (shameful secret: I used to play marathon 2 when I was very young with a flight stick. Me and my friend would pretend we were piloting a giant robot, and the screen was looking through its eyes.)
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Jun 24, 2011 19:48
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The Kins posted:Well we somehow managed to reach thread number three without SlimerChat. It was a good run I suppose... So how about them Flemoids? Scariest 2.5D enemies, hands down. Come to think of it, there's no Chex Quest blurb! I can't be the only one who played CQ before Doom.
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Jun 24, 2011 19:49
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DamnGlitch posted:About a decade later (IE real soon), bungie is going to be releasing Marathon Infinity's source. Among other things, this should allow Aleph One to play back Marathon Infinity movies (it currently can only reply marathon 2 movies without falling out of sync) That's going to be pretty neat. For a while it couldn't even play back M2 movies, as I recall, which made watching the Vidmaster Challenge recordings kind of problematic. Something that's always kind of bugged me about Aleph One, though - the Duke, Doom, and Descent source ports add all kinds of extra features, ranging from the fairly basic (like the ability to look up and down without distortion, which A1 still doesn't have after twelve years, or the addition of new game modes) to the fairly complex (like complete redesigns of the lighting model, and support for other games that used similar engines). A1, however, has none of this - and considering the sneering dismissal such suggestions are met with in #alephone and similar places, it seems to be a cultural issue, not a technical one. But why is this?
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Jun 24, 2011 19:56
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Mak0rz posted:Did that, still running into the same problems. If you're still running into the problem I don't know what to tell you. I just tried making a fresh folder with the latest build of zDoom, Doom2.wad, and AEoD.pk3 and AEoDdat.pk3 and everything works fine. If you're using a launcher to do it then maybe it's causing some sort of problem.
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Jun 24, 2011 20:12
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This seems to just barely qualify for the thread, being a PS2 launch title in 2000: TimeSplitters TimeSplitters was a PS2 launch title made by Free Radical Design, made up of former Rare employees who worked on Goldeneye, which was meant to be a selling point. One of the main grabs of the TimeSplitters series is the levels and weapons from across different time periods, which leads to some nice variety. Feel free to have a deathmatch in Egypt in the 1930s with rocket launchers, laser guns and miniguns! Another was the inclusion of a simple map maker, which I'm 99% sure was uncommon in console FPSes at the time. There was also the large amount of cartoony characters to choose from, like a bipedal duck man, a robot with a fishbowl for a head or a sentient gingerbread man. The gameplay is really fast paced like Quake or Unreal, and I personally think the multiplayer is on par with them. They were definitely trying to make another Goldeneye with this, but I think they didn't reach that until TimeSplitters 2 in 2002. Sorry if this is too "new", but I figured if AvP 2000 could be in the OP, TS1 could be mentioned somewhere in the thread. TimeSplitters is my favorite FPS series next to Half-Life and the best console FPS series period in my opinion, so I wanted to give it some appreciation if it's allowed. Purple D. Link fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jun 24, 2011 |
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Jun 24, 2011 20:14
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ToxicFrog posted:That's going to be pretty neat. For a while it couldn't even play back M2 movies, as I recall, which made watching the Vidmaster Challenge recordings kind of problematic. Yeah, actually, M2 films just started being possible recently IIRC. There were builds with a number of improvements over stock Marathon though. For instance, vastly larger spaces and item / enemy counts, music, massive sized textures, open GL rendering of the levels, fog. I believe 3D item rendering was put in at one point (though god knows if its in there now), crosshairs, a ground up implementation for internet play, rewritten voice chat. I imagine some of the lack of changes has to do with... why in marathon? Like, lighting and 3d models and such. Sure, I guess it's neat, but most maps wont take advantage of that stuff. At a certain point, why add features that are obsolete to a 15 year old engine that has nothing that uses them that a 10 (12) year old engine like UT 99 can do vastly better? I think at this point, improvements are made to try and make the Marathon experience better, not necessarily pack in other experiences just because they can. That's just my perspective though.
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Jun 24, 2011 20:15
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The Kins posted:Well we somehow managed to reach thread number three without SlimerChat. It was a good run I suppose... What, does the thread suddenly get lovely as soon as people bring up those little green turds from the depths of hell or something? Also, facehuggers from Alien Trilogy are probably the scariest 2.5D enemies overall, considering that game doesn't have a really easy "get this little fucker off of me" button or easily accessible high explosives like Duke 3D does. SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jun 24, 2011 |
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Jun 24, 2011 20:20
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The Kins posted:HEY ON AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TOPIC Return of the Triad is out! It's a fan-made sequel to ROTT as a Zdoom mod. I think that ticks all the boxes, really... Can't believe this is finally out, for a while I thought it might never make it. Gonna load this up tonight 
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Jun 24, 2011 20:23
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bbcisdabomb posted:So how about them Flemoids? Scariest 2.5D enemies, hands down. Chex Quest is mentioned. Incidentally,did you know there were 2 episodes made for the cereals? And that years later,one of the original creators made a 3rd one for all the fans? It really is pretty fun, you should check it out.
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Jun 24, 2011 20:46
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DamnGlitch posted:I imagine some of the lack of changes has to do with... why in marathon? Like, lighting and 3d models and such. Sure, I guess it's neat, but most maps wont take advantage of that stuff. At a certain point, why add features that are obsolete to a 15 year old engine that has nothing that uses them that a 10 (12) year old engine like UT 99 can do vastly better? The same question applies to the other games I mentioned too, though. And the answer is usually "because it makes the game more fun, more accessible, or more aesthetically pleasing". For example, improved lighting can add a lot to the atmosphere without changing the map design (see Descent for an example), and improved controls make the game more fun to play in general. In the case of things like support for 3d models and high-res textures, there's no immediate payoff, but the community will often take advantage of such features - see the Marathon high resolution packs (which seem to have vanished from the sourceforge site for some reason), or the HRP for Duke3d. quote:I think at this point, improvements are made to try and make the Marathon experience better, not necessarily pack in other experiences just because they can. That's just my perspective though. There's still a lot of work that can be done in that area, though; my personal pet peeve is that you still can't look up or down more than 20º or so, and even that is nauseating, but that's far from the only thing that could be improved. But the devs seem completely dismissive of such changes.
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Jun 24, 2011 20:50
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As someone that used Doomsday in light of GZDoom always having issues with ATI cards, I tried GZ again, mostly because I watched a vid of Brutal Doom  aaaaaaaaaand, it still has problems, mostly in the BSOD area. But it looks like the culprit is once again ATI's wonky OpenGL support, so if anyone on a Radeon has issues, throw this in the directory where gzdoom.exe (assuming you have a 64-bit Vista/7 installation)(and you should)http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BA9ZOGM5 If you don't, download Catalyst 10.12 for whatever OS you have, run the install program, but don't go any further after it extracts. Go to where it extracted, find atioglxx, and use 7zip to extract it, then throw it in the folder. Make sure vertex buffering is off, and don't enable vsync in-game, but otherwise, crash-free so far. I'M loving DOOMGUY OF THE NORTH STAR
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Jun 24, 2011 20:53
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The Kins posted:Well we somehow managed to reach thread number three without SlimerChat. It was a good run I suppose...
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Jun 24, 2011 21:04
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Setzer Gabbiani posted:As someone that used Doomsday in light of GZDoom always having issues with ATI cards, I tried GZ again, mostly because I watched a vid of Brutal Doom I can't speak much for GZdoom releases after September, but up until the end of August 2010 I used a computer with Windows 7 64-bit and an old Radeon X800. Never ran into a single problem. I don't recall ever using that fix.
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Jun 24, 2011 21:18
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ToxicFrog posted:The same question applies to the other games I mentioned too, though. And the answer is usually "because it makes the game more fun, more accessible, or more aesthetically pleasing". For example, improved lighting can add a lot to the atmosphere without changing the map design (see Descent for an example), and improved controls make the game more fun to play in general. In the case of things like support for 3d models and high-res textures, there's no immediate payoff, but the community will often take advantage of such features - see the Marathon high resolution packs (which seem to have vanished from the sourceforge site for some reason), or the HRP for Duke3d. That sounds way easier said than done. Like, how do you just "improve the lighting" of Marathon? Basically every surface has it's own lighting which effects how bright things are on it, and how light the texture is, there aren't any light sources in the conventional sense, it's all simulated. High-res textures are a lot more sensible, but I think 3d model support almost never pays off, even super high profile games like Doom don't really make very good use of them outside of items or whatever.
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Jun 24, 2011 21:27
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ToxicFrog posted:The same question applies to the other games I mentioned too, though. And the answer is usually "because it makes the game more fun, more accessible, or more aesthetically pleasing". For example, improved lighting can add a lot to the atmosphere without changing the map design (see Descent for an example), and improved controls make the game more fun to play in general. In the case of things like support for 3d models and high-res textures, there's no immediate payoff, but the community will often take advantage of such features - see the Marathon high resolution packs (which seem to have vanished from the sourceforge site for some reason), or the HRP for Duke3d. The real problem is the death of OS 9 and Classic. There are no good tools for Marathon that work on a Modern Mac. Without the tools to make new levels, there's less desire to push Aleph One to get better. If you look at the last few mods (of course we called them Scenarios) of the 2000 to 2004 time era to come out, they all took high advantage of really wacky things in Aleph One. Like Some crazy Room over Room to create reflective floors and catwalks (if you can dig up Murte Machine it uses an odd fork of Aleph One). Same goes for some of the Fog and Animated texture enhancements. Without good tools the community died. You can argue it's been brought back to life, but nothing I've seen compares to Marathon of the past. Also Aleph One got really loving Linuxy. Programs for the Mac are supposed to be elegant and easy to use, not a cluster gently caress. Edit: DamnGlitch posted:That's pretty slick. I've wanted a shot at the XBLA version but I don't own an xbox. Plus, I already have a pretty esoteric keyboard style, don't know if I'd like the game pad. We got Bungie's exact controller math from Halo for Marathon, and a bunch of different controller setups (including the old 007/TimeSplitters 1 style). So it's probably the easiest to play, if you've touched a console in the past 5 years.
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Jun 24, 2011 21:27
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DamnGlitch posted:Aside form a select few levels, you can really barge all the Marathon games like twin marauders of death. It's very fun. The only real hang ups are some of the puzzles (which in general M2 and Inf are better at, but M1 has 'colony ship for sale cheap,' though ironically that piee of poo poo might be tolerable with co-op, one working the switches the other checking to see if they can make it..) M1 might be a little cramped for some co-op, it wasn't designed with it in mind, but the other two were. I don't know when you last played M1A1, but that puzzle is one of the most notable changes. The platforms all lock themselves in at the right height without any adjusting.
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Jun 24, 2011 21:39
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Periodiko posted:That sounds way easier said than done. Like, how do you just "improve the lighting" of Marathon? Basically every surface has it's own lighting which effects how bright things are on it, and how light the texture is, there aren't any light sources in the conventional sense, it's all simulated. High-res textures are a lot more sensible, but I think 3d model support almost never pays off, even super high profile games like Doom don't really make very good use of them outside of items or whatever.  Obviously not every upgrade makes sense in every game. Descent already had moving light sources and whatnot, so improving the way light is rendered made a significant visual improvement to the game. Because of Marathon's lighting model, however, it doesn't even make sense to discuss such things.My question wasn't "why doesn't A1 have all of these improvements from other engines", it's "why are the A1 devs hostile to even the concept of improvement, regardless of what actual improvement is being discussed". A contributing factor may be the way some parts of A1 are written in the most rear end-backwards way possible, making any change a pain in the rear end, though. hippieman posted:Also Aleph One got really loving Linuxy. Programs for the Mac are supposed to be elegant and easy to use, not a cluster gently caress. "Unzip A1, unzip Marathon to same folder, play" is a clusterfuck?
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Jun 24, 2011 21:45
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Mak0rz posted:I can't speak much for GZdoom releases after September, but up until the end of August 2010 I used a computer with Windows 7 64-bit and an old Radeon X800. Never ran into a single problem. I don't recall ever using that fix. The X-series didn't go past Catalyst 10.2, and that driver had stable OpenGL support before the big overhaul broke a shitload of older games. It's generally 10.6 and beyond that are horrible for older OGL versions because they changed some core rendering things
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Jun 24, 2011 21:45
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I definitely disagree that A1 is hostile to improvements. Just the OpenGL shaders and the addition of glowmaps to textures has resulted in worlds of improvement, at least visually. Look at this.
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Jun 24, 2011 21:56
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ToxicFrog posted:
Back in the day, you downloaded a Marathon Scenario, and if had to, it came with a special installer that would dress up the entire process, and generate everything. You download Aleph One, you get a bunch of poo poo, double click the Icon, you get a very bad error message. Then you download M1A1. You put that folder into the same folder that Aleph One is in, still won't work. It just got all ugly. It's just now how the old community would of handled this. We would of packed up M1A1 into a Application Bundle, made it a stand alone download, with a nice "Drag me to Applications" window. Keep it all tight and compact, and with a good custom icon. I've always hated the Aleph One icon. Sorry about the "drat kids these days with their Marathons" but Aleph One took a bad turn along the way. This was the stuff people were doing with Aleph One just weeks after Bungie released the source code:  and  That feature, Bridges and Balconies, was never finished in favor of of giving Marathon 2 different sort of scripting languages and just other things that have hurt it in my opinion. Also on the Mac, you can use a 360 controller to play Aleph One, but you cannot assign the Triggers to anything.
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Jun 24, 2011 22:12
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ToxicFrog posted:
Yeah man, I'm not sure. Maybe you asked like a dick? I was pretty into A1 wayyyyy back in the day, getting nightly builds and on the open source mailing list, and everybody was really friendly. Aside from some random cock suckers I played with online once, everyone in the marathon community has been super nice to me. hippieman posted:Back in the day, you downloaded a Marathon Scenario, and if had to, it came with a special installer that would dress up the entire process, and generate everything. I sort of agree from a totally non-programmer perspective that it got a lot... uglier when they merged the SDK and Mac projects together. Pretty sure it had to do with the intel transition? Either way, I've had very little problems, provided the scenario has been optimized for A1. These days I usually just drop A1 into the scenario folder, and not bother with trying to change what's what inside the app. A1 is small enough that it's not really a waste of space to have multiple versions of the app floating around. DamnGlitch fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jun 24, 2011 |
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Jun 24, 2011 22:14
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Keep your ears open, nightly builds might become a thing again. Maybe.
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Jun 24, 2011 22:18
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DamnGlitch posted:Yeah man, I'm not sure. Maybe you asked like a dick? I was pretty into A1 wayyyyy back in the day, getting nightly builds and on the open source mailing list, and everybody was really friendly. Aside from some random cock suckers I played with online once, everyone in the marathon community has been super nice to me. Check the logs if you like - #alephone, August 2007. People were friendly but dismissive - "You want to be able to look up and down without feeling queasy? That would ruin the Marathon Experiencetm; feel free to fork and create your own version that uses rotational- rather than shear-pitch, but this is not a feature A1 will ever have." "Shear-pitch gives some people motion sickness? Well, even with rotation-pitch it won't look as good as HL2, so those people won't play it anyways." "Being able to look 90 degrees up and down would significantly change game balancejust like mouselook already does, so including it would be a terrible idea even as an optional feature." hippieman's screenshots neatly illustrate my point (as does playing around with eDuke32 or gzDoom for thirty seconds) - it seems that all of these source ports started out with a "let's push this engine to the limits, and make the game more accessible while we do it" attitude. The other source ports kept this attitude, whereas A1 has regressed to "let's add mouselook and call it a day  ".Ijuuin Enzan posted:I definitely disagree that A1 is hostile to improvements. Just the OpenGL shaders and the addition of glowmaps to textures has resulted in worlds of improvement, at least visually. Look at this. While that is pretty cool, I have to say that I would prefer the ability to look up and down over the ability to have bloom.
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Jun 24, 2011 23:20
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Does Aleph One still have that wonky options menu that you can't access ingame?
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Jun 24, 2011 23:23
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Yep. 
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Jun 24, 2011 23:39
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Vertigus posted:Does Aleph One still have that wonky options menu that you can't access ingame? Yeah. It also has this super annoying fade effect every time you go between options menus, from menus into the game, from the game back into menus... And when I back out of the game into the menus, you have to alt-tab out and back in to get them to show up. And, finally, I don't think this game has quick save. I guess the maps were built with checkpoints in them, but come on. Especially with as many bugs as I've seen in ~10 minutes of playing.
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Jun 24, 2011 23:41
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Anal Volcano posted:Yeah. It also has this super annoying fade effect every time you go between options menus, from menus into the game, from the game back into menus... It has save points in game as part of the flow and strategy of the game. And again, I've not experienced the bugs I keep hearing people claim to have, across pretty much every computer I've ever owned. Marathon also never had ingame menus, and while it's a feature I'd like to see, if you hang around a pattern buffer it's pretty negligible to work around. Mouselook has always been in the game, BTW. It was just never very good.
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Jun 24, 2011 23:56
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I'm using GZdoom and installed the latest build I could find of beautiful Doom. It doesn't seem to really change anything though. Am I missing something on how to get it working other than inserting the files into the Gzdoom folder? The wads for the games I'm using are from that Doom collectors edition that came out a few years back. The links to Real Guns seem to be out of date too.
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Jun 25, 2011 00:17
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Anal Volcano posted:And, finally, I don't think this game has quick save. I guess the maps were built with checkpoints in them, but come on. Especially with as many bugs as I've seen in ~10 minutes of playing. Quicksaving is a silly thing to complain about. And as the only person apparently having all these bugs, you should really be reporting them so that something can be done.
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Jun 25, 2011 00:17
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Fag Boy Jim posted:it's actually e1m6  And the part you're talking about is with the pitch black room with light amp goggles, correct? gently caress that room and every other room like it in every FPS game ever [and gently caress the fact that I'm a huge pussy when it comes to dark rooms!]. Purple D. Link posted:This seems to just barely qualify for the thread, being a PS2 launch title in 2000: TimeSplitters
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Jun 25, 2011 00:19
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small change posted:I'm using GZdoom and installed the latest build I could find of beautiful Doom. It doesn't seem to really change anything though. Am I missing something on how to get it working other than inserting the files into the Gzdoom folder? The wads for the games I'm using are from that Doom collectors edition that came out a few years back. You're dragging and dropping the Beautiful Doom wads onto the GZDoom executable right?
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Jun 25, 2011 00:22
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ToxicFrog posted:So I decided to try out Duke3d: Attrition, and it's loads of fun. I'm not badass enough to handle the included user maps, so I've just been running through the original 3DR maps using it. Yeah, it did the same for me, but after a few more levels it plonks you down on the first level of ep 2, after which they progress normally.
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Jun 25, 2011 00:25
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