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I'm blanking on execution rules, and don't want to read the rulebook right now - what would be the functional differences between Cottle's "Life and Death" and a real execution? They'd keep their loyalty and skill cards? Would their OPG get reset? I'm having a hard time imagining what circumstances you'd want to use that ability. Plus Cottle is going to have a bitch of a time using it, since there's not that much control of when characters go to sickbay.
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Aug 7, 2011 19:28
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How about for Cottle's OPG Once per game, when a player is sent to sickbay, you may instead send them to any other Galactica location. That player then gets one action. Could result in some crazy poo poo...instead of gaining an action I was thinking about "you may also choose to have that player either draw or discard up to three cards." but it felt clunkier.
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Aug 7, 2011 19:57
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Crackbone posted:I'm blanking on execution rules, and don't want to read the rulebook right now - what would be the functional differences between Cottle's "Life and Death" and a real execution? They'd keep their loyalty and skill cards? Would their OPG get reset? OPG is once-per-game no matter what. I believe they've stated as much in the FAQ or elsewhere. If you are executed, you discard all your cards, prove your loyalty, and if human lose 1 morale and choose another character (also draw a new loyalty card). With Cottle's Life and Death, you would skip basically all of that except swap out a character. You keep your Skill Cards and Loyalty Cards and there's no potential morale loss. Strategic executions for swapping characters is something players have occassionally entertained in the past. It is just the cost is typically too high. This would allow you do just that for no cost. Did all your pilots turn out to be cylons? Ok, let's switch someone out. Or, this poo poo sucks, if only we had <insert character not in play>'s awesome ability right now! There are definite human applications of the ability. As far as cylon applications, it could be an opportunity to remove a troublesome character from play. Getting rid of Cally, Cain, Apollo, etc. could be desirable. I haven't entirely convinced myself it would be all that great. Any other opnions on if this would be worthile for a cylon? You're probably right on the limited timing of the ability. So instead we can open it up like so: Life and Death -- Once per game, when another player is sent to or starts their turn in Sickbay, you may return their character to the game box. It may no longer be used during the game. That player then chooses a new character, placing that character in his starting location. Follow rules for selecting specific characters after an Execution.
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Aug 7, 2011 20:38
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Pander posted:Once per game, when a player is sent to sickbay, you may instead send them to any other Galactica location. That player then gets one action. This is a good idea as well. Cottle's OPG is the last major piece missing. Had another idea last night but its kind of the samey as his Surgery ability. But these are probably the best workable 3 so far. Let's settle on one! Life and Death is unique but sort of complex. Not sure if all the angles are covered on that one. Triage is different and inoffensive enough to warrant a OPG. --OPG 1--> Life and Death -- Once per game, when another player is sent to or starts their turn in Sickbay, you may return their character to the game box. It may no longer be used during the game. That player then chooses a new character, placing that character in his starting location. Follow rules for selecting specific characters after an Execution. --OPG 2--> Good as New -- Action: Once per game, choose a player in Sickbay to draw Skill Cards up to their hand limit. --OPG 3--> Triage -- Once per game, when a player would be sent to Sickbay, you may instead move them to any other location on Galactica (except the Brig). That player may then immediately take 1 Action.
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Aug 7, 2011 20:47
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Cocks Cable posted:--OPG 1--> Life and Death -- Once per game, when another player is sent to or starts their turn in Sickbay, you may return their character to the game box. It may no longer be used during the game. That player then chooses a new character, placing that character in his starting location. Follow rules for selecting specific characters after an Execution. Cocks Cable posted:--OPG 2--> Good as New -- Action: Once per game, choose a player in Sickbay to draw Skill Cards up to their hand limit. Cocks Cable posted:--OPG 3--> Triage -- Once per game, when a player would be sent to Sickbay, you may instead move them to any other location on Galactica (except the Brig). That player may then immediately take 1 Action.
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Aug 7, 2011 20:57
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Pander posted:This doesn't even make sense...you have to use your action to do this? But it should apply before the movement phase of someone else' turn? For a power (draw 5 cards) that's not really a OPG-level power? I don't like it. Drawing 5 =/= drawing up to 10.
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Aug 7, 2011 21:27
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Good as New is a winner, I think. It does make him very skill-card centric, but that's not a bad thing.
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Aug 7, 2011 21:42
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Cocks Cable posted:--OPG 1--> Life and Death -- Once per game, when another player is sent to or starts their turn in Sickbay, you may return their character to the game box. It may no longer be used during the game. That player then chooses a new character, placing that character in his starting location. Follow rules for selecting specific characters after an Execution. As worded this could be used on infiltrating cylon leaders as well, which could really mess up the balance. Suggest if you go with this to specify 'human player'.
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Aug 7, 2011 22:34
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Vulpes posted:As worded this could be used on infiltrating cylon leaders as well, which could really mess up the balance. Suggest if you go with this to specify 'human player'. Thats a good point. Unfortunately there isn't a seperate distinction for cylon leaders. A cylon leader is considered human if he is infiltrating. So instead of trying to make L&D work, I'll just drop it.
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Aug 7, 2011 22:41
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Some Numbers posted:Drawing 5 =/= drawing up to 10. Oh I think I misread it. That does make it better I suppose, but no real use for an unrevealed cylon.
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Aug 7, 2011 23:35
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Pander posted:Oh I think I misread it. That does make it better I suppose, but no real use for an unrevealed cylon. I suppose you could change it to "Target player in Sickbay draws up to their hand limit or discards all cards"?
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Aug 8, 2011 13:08
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I think they are done, or at least in good enough shape to try out a game with them (which I'll start soon). Thank you to everyone who contributed!quote:POTENTIAL NEW UNOFFICIAL CHARACTERS rev0.5
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Aug 8, 2011 17:40
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[BSG Exodus] Admiral Hoshi? President Lampkin for you on line two. is a go.
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Aug 8, 2011 21:46
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Now that we've finished up with characters, I'm still working on more cylon reveals and some extra personal goals. Is there any balance reason you couldn't do more - resource reveals? By that I mean there's the -1 morale, why not -1 pop, or even -2 food? Or is the -1 morale so weak it should be buffed? New personal goals: Vendetta: Reveal 4 or more treachery cards from your hand. -1 Morale Cutting corners: 3 or more locations on Galactica are damaged. -1 Food Up Close and Personal 1 or more centurions on the boarding track. -1 Pop Sacrificial Lambs 3 or more Civillian ships are destroyed. -1 Fuel
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Aug 9, 2011 16:08
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Crackbone posted:Is there any balance reason you couldn't do more - resource reveals? By that I mean there's the -1 morale, why not -1 pop, or even -2 food? Or is the -1 morale so weak it should be buffed? -1 morale often considered the weakest reveal card, but I don't see why not. Rather than -1 pop, you'd probably be better off drawing and destroying a civilian ship. -2 food is probably too strong for a reveal card and -1 food would be definitely too weak. -1 fuel is strong enough, but I'd be wary of dinging fuel (the most important resource) in the base game with limited options to regain it. With Exodus and TAC-6, it might be okay. Crackbone posted:Vendetta: Vendetta is a good idea. "Why didn't you discard that TRE?" Might consider bumping to 5 cards? Cutting Corners is a good idea since it specifies Galactica and not Pegasus. You have incentive to not use the damage sponge. Not sure about Up Close and Personal. Getting 1 centurion on board is relatively easy and doesn't involve much choice on the player's part. A typical game usually sees at least 1 boarding now with the cylon fleet. So it seems like a goal that would just end up fulfilling itself with no needed input from the player. Sacrificial Lambs seems too easy in the same way Up Close and Personal does. What game doesn't lose 3 more civilian ships relatively early?
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Aug 9, 2011 20:00
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Cocks Cable posted:-1 morale often considered the weakest reveal card, but I don't see why not. Rather than -1 pop, you'd probably be better off drawing and destroying a civilian ship. -2 food is probably too strong for a reveal card and -1 food would be definitely too weak. -1 fuel is strong enough, but I'd be wary of dinging fuel (the most important resource) in the base game with limited options to regain it. With Exodus and TAC-6, it might be okay. I agree fuel isn't really a good reveal option. I was thinking maybe making the reveal -1 pop or morale, Cylon's choice. I was thinking of a "draw a ship and destroy it" reveal, but that's pretty swingy since there's so many results. For Vendetta I keep waffling on 4 or 5 cards. I lean towards 4 just because it's easier for a player to achieve, but could still look suspicious. I'm not a fan of some of the current PG cards because they're so drat hard for a character to accomplish, like holding both titles. As for the Up Close and Personal and Sacrificial Lambs, I do agree they might be on the weak side. Civy deaths is too problematic to balance, as most of the time it'd be better just to take the hit on the card.
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Aug 9, 2011 20:23
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You could change Up Close and Personal to require that specific player to ace a centurion.
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Aug 10, 2011 14:45
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Railing Kill posted:You could change Up Close and Personal to require that specific player to ace a centurion. I think I was approaching this in the wrong way. The idea behind personal goals is really to give Cylon players cover to make bad or sub-optimal plays. So for Sacrificial Lambs, "Six (seven?) or more civillian ships on the board". It can happen naturally but also encourages the person with the goal to advocate for letting civs build up. Your idea for "Up Close and Personal" is pretty good too.
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Aug 10, 2011 15:26
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Crackbone posted:So for Sacrificial Lambs, "Six (seven?) or more civillian ships on the board". It can happen naturally but also encourages the person with the goal to advocate for letting civs build up. I like this better. It's harder to justify the previous version because the cost outweighed the benefit. "Guys, we should let those civvies die." "Why? We'll lose 2-3 pop, maybe as much as 4." "But if we don't lose that pop, we'll lose... 1 fuel." In some endgame situations this might make sense, but usually it would be hard to justify. With the new way, you're just putting them civvies in potential danger, but nothing is lost yet. The only personal goal card that bugs me a bit is the one that has you discard 20+ points worth of cards in one drop. Unless you're the president or the admiral and you get one of those "current player discards x, (title) discards y" crises, this is really difficult to accomplish. Even if you do have a chance to discard 5 cards, you need them all to average 4's, which is usually not going to be the case. I get the idea. They want to foster suspicion about "why do you want to discard cards instead of taking a minor food hit?" and "why did you choose to discard those high cards, tin-breath?" I just think 20+ is just a bit high. I'm also not sold on the extra loyalty card and the necessity of taking a replacement loyalty card if you resolve a personal goal before distance 6. Both of these parts of the personal goal rules seem unnecessary. Thoughts?
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Aug 10, 2011 15:42
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Don't you get to do the discard as an action? You don't need to wait for a discard crisis.
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Aug 10, 2011 15:54
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Railing Kill posted:I like this better. It's harder to justify the previous version because the cost outweighed the benefit. "Guys, we should let those civvies die." "Why? We'll lose 2-3 pop, maybe as much as 4." "But if we don't lose that pop, we'll lose... 1 fuel." In some endgame situations this might make sense, but usually it would be hard to justify. With the new way, you're just putting them civvies in potential danger, but nothing is lost yet. You're misreading the card. You reveal the goal, then discard 20 strength. It doesn't require a "normal" discard to activate. Even still I think 20+ is really high. And I agree the distance 6/extra loyalty card mechanic sucks. In the set I'm making I'm taking it off the cards entirely, along with granting an additional action. The original cards are really harsh, and I don't see the need to do so. Crackbone fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Aug 10, 2011 |
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Aug 10, 2011 16:00
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Crackbone posted:You're misreading the card. You reveal the goal, then discard 20 strength. It doesn't require a "normal" discard to activate. Ah. My mistake. That's not nearly as bad. It still sucks, but in just the right way it should.
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Aug 10, 2011 16:03
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Vulpes posted:Even though XO chaining is basically de rigeur, this is still out-of-flavour with the other character abilities, which don't rely on any other specific cards or abilities. I know this was a few pages ago, but I need to correct this. Maintenance Engineer -- During your turn, after you use a Repair Skill Card, you may take another action (once per turn). 
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Aug 10, 2011 19:41
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Some Numbers posted:I know this was a few pages ago, but I need to correct this. Good point, I didn't even think of that. Precedent granted.
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Aug 10, 2011 23:00
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This game is amazing, I feel so lucky to have a local group to play with. After about ~20 games our Cylons still always win so we've got a lot of learning to do. I always felt like the game could be more creative about crisis mechanics. They're the meat of the game in terms of player interaction. Are there any fan-brew crises that get a lot of acclaim?
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Aug 11, 2011 17:06
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I can't remember anyone making any Crises. I think characters are the only game components that we've created.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:19
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That's cool. I was just thinking about how creative you could get with them. For a long time I was trying to think of new crisis mechanics to add. Crises right now fall into two broad classes, 'choose' and 'skill check'. Some are hybrids. Then you have additional elements like the Skill Check Ability icons from Exodus. I don't really know how far I got with coming up with a new class. I had a lot of dumb ideas. Eventually I decided a new crisis type would be a bad idea. Skill check crises are important because so many of the game mechanics are built around them - character abilities, cards, abilities that impact the Destiny deck. Adding gimmick crises to the crisis deck dilutes the importance of all these abilities. I still think there's a fair bit of room for interesting crisis mechanics within the choose/skill check framework. Unless I'm stupid, there's no existing crisis that uses a trust vs. payoff mechanic. For example, you could do: "Current player chooses: something bad happens and current player draws 3 cards OR something bad happens and another player draws 6 cards." This creates tension between self-interest/security and teamplay/risk. Or a choice between two sets of consequences on the same skill check, one low risk/low reward, the other high risk/high reward. Or whatever, I don't know. Maybe these have already been done?
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Aug 11, 2011 17:57
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The thing is, Crises are, by design, mostly downside for the humans. And flavorwise, that makes a lot of sense, because the fleet is running and despite the constant threat of being blasted out of the sky by Cylons, the civilians still have time to hold elections, complain about rations and have riots. Making a Crisis with an upside feels...off to me. I mean, there are some Crises, like the ones that give extra Jump Prep or +1 to a resources or Legendary Discovery that help, but they all carry a risk. You don't get the benefit without committing to a Skill Check and running the risk of losing something.
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Aug 11, 2011 18:49
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If anything was done to the Crisis deck it should probably be adding consequences onto older cards. Exodus introduced the mechanic and then put it on so few cards that it's a non-issue in most games.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:08
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Yeah, that example I gave was pretty lovely without specifying exactly what the 'something bad' is. I was driving for a crisis which is bad, but which could be ameliorated with trust if you feel like you can trust. It's pretty lovely. The more I think about it the more complete the current crisis system feels.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:08
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Some Numbers posted:The thing is, Crises are, by design, mostly downside for the humans. And flavorwise, that makes a lot of sense, because the fleet is running and despite the constant threat of being blasted out of the sky by Cylons, the civilians still have time to hold elections, complain about rations and have riots. Eh, I think there is room for something like the following: -1 food and draw 2 POL even if it is outside your skillset. or Draw a civilian ship and sacrifice it, then all players draw 1 card. or the like. --- Yes, you get a guaranteed loss of a resource, but it is a tactical tradeoff for cards. That fits the flavor (hey, lets sacrifice a stripped down civilian ship for some breathing room. Hey, lets give some extra food out to build political goodwill.) and it is a bit more flexibility in the game as well.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:21
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You know, what I'd do with Consequences is something like remove them from cards entirely, and then any time you get a check with 0 strength in it, like...roll a die and on a 3 or less or something trigger a Consequences effect; maybe make 8 of those so you can D8 them as well.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:34
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Dexanth posted:You know, what I'd do with Consequences is something like remove them from cards entirely, and then any time you get a check with 0 strength in it, like...roll a die and on a 3 or less or something trigger a Consequences effect; maybe make 8 of those so you can D8 them as well. So, the rules would be like this? "Whenever a Skill Check contains a card with a Skill Check icon, roll a die. If 3 or less, roll again and trigger a Consequence according to a chart."
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Aug 11, 2011 19:48
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Some Numbers posted:So, the rules would be like this? Yes, pretty much something akin to that. Presumably since it's a die roll the most severe consequences would be lower down the list.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:53
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Would you save a Strat for the Consequence roll? Seems to me I'd rather use the Strat on the first die roll to preclude the Consequence roll at all.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:55
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That would make me hesitant to play 0-strength cards at all. I think the consequence should be much rarer than 3/8.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:57
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I just picked random numbers out of my head. It would be 2/8 even, I don't know! Or perhaps 7/8 on the consequences die roll is 'Nothing happens' or who knows!!
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Aug 11, 2011 19:58
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Not a bad idea. But maybe instead of a flat die roll, each triggering card adds +1 so if you pile on the TRE or 0 strength cards, you have a better chance of hitting a consequence. Maybe even scale the consequence results in increasingly bad order so the worst possibilities require a higher result.
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Aug 11, 2011 20:52
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I'd have them do -1 in that scenario, since in BSG higher roll = better, hence SP. Don't see why TRE would apply in that scenario for the simple resaon of it's already obnoxious and seeing as the mechanic is already going to be anti-human with no compensation there's no reason to double dip!
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Aug 11, 2011 22:06
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Okay, I'm an idiot, I play Exodus but I'm not exactly sure what Consequences are. Is this a term for a basic crisis function I should know? Or are we talking about the little 'if someone plays a Skill Check Ability into this crisis, base stars fire'?
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Aug 11, 2011 22:07
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