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Syncopated
Oct 21, 2010

pugnax posted:

Who the gently caress is Forel?

He's the first known alias of Jaquen Hgaar or w/e.

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syscall girl
Nov 7, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
Fun Shoe

Syncopated posted:

He's the first known alias of Jaquen Hgaar or w/e.

He is the first sword of bravos, Syrian forest and dead as hell

He was a good dude who sacrificed his life to save Arya and that's that.

Now she can kill some more people.

That's all a character needs to be. Be badass and then die against some odds. Keep your tip up and smack some bully with a gpds damned stick.

Malpais Legate
Oct 1, 2014

Evil Fluffy posted:

Robb, Geoffery, King Robert, Tywin: Not Important Characters. :thumbsup:

I was talking about POV characters. Plenty of people relevant to the plot have died, it doesn't mean the Gurm is just wantonly murdering characters left and right to the point the plot is broken.

It's the dumb show that developed the stupid "ANYONE CAN DIE!!!!!!" reputation.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

No, the books had that reputation long before the show was solid.

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.
The false reputation is really based on one event: the "main" character was killed in the first book/season. Lots of characters die randomly and meaninglessly on The Walking Dead (unless there's a dumpster nearby), but Rick's still alive.

Lycus fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jan 20, 2016

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


the red wedding did more to solidify the true reputation.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
The books would have been so much better if Ned and Robert didn't die and the plot followed Ned's diligent efforts to curb on corruption within the capital.

A multitude of chapters where Ned is trying to get Robert to exercise and diet, hundreds of paragraphs where Ned is being a passive aggressive jerk to Jaime and Cersei. That would have been quite the epic fantasy book series.

Malpais Legate
Oct 1, 2014

"Anyone can die" is so farcical because of Tyrion, Dany, and Arya's obvious plot armor.

Yeah, the Red Wedding killed off a lot of people but really "anyone can die" is so obviously not the case.

TommyGun85
Jun 5, 2013

emanresu tnuocca posted:

The books would have been so much better if Ned and Robert didn't die and the plot followed Ned's diligent efforts to curb on corruption within the capital.

A multitude of chapters where Ned is trying to get Robert to exercise and diet, hundreds of paragraphs where Ned is being a passive aggressive jerk to Jaime and Cersei. That would have been quite the epic fantasy book series.

youre right, Brienne aimlessly wandering and Dany making GBS threads in a field is so much more epic.

Max
Nov 30, 2002

Malpais Legate posted:

"Anyone can die" is so farcical because of Tyrion, Dany, and Arya's obvious plot armor.

Yeah, the Red Wedding killed off a lot of people but really "anyone can die" is so obviously not the case.

To me, the series has been "Anyone can die AT ANY TIME." The red wedding was shocking to me not because something bad happened, but because it all built up and happened in the span of a single chapter.

Xy Hapu
Mar 7, 2004

GRRM has somehow convinced us his characters have plot armor again. Possibly by dragging things out so long everyone forgot. The time is finally ripe for Red Wedding 2.0!

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Dany does not have plot armor the way jon/arya/tyrion do, or at least won't once she reaches westeros.

Krinkle
Feb 9, 2003

Ah do believe Ah've got the vapors...
Ah mean the farts


Having a hard time even understanding what plot armor is I mean are you just looking back and saying hey how come he didn't kill any of these characters? Rank favoritism!

I mean my first time through when arya caught an axe to the head I flipped forward and forward because I honestly thought it was a possibility she was actually dead and needed to know she wasn't before I could go on. But you weren't fooled and knew she'd live forever? You are even so sure she has plot armor she'll never be sent to assassinate jon and sacrifice herself when forced to choose between her new and old lives because to me it seems to be building towards that? Does plot armor only last until she has to die at the appointed time? And this is a bad thing because you want story arcs that go nowhere and mean nothing just so nobody feels too protected?

I mean I like the twists in the story so far and I like being invested in long term arcs also. Do you want every arc to last about as long as a spy vs. spy comic?

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
The reasons I think they will survive to the conclusion is more like, meta-story based. Arya has been super lucky to survive over and over, and I imagine it will continue. Jon isn't the king in the north but he's the guy in the north as far as storytelling goes; he's necessary. Tyrion is GRRM the dwarf.

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.
If Arya died now, the Braavos arc would be a bigger dead end than if Quentyn had died before meeting Dany and releasing the dragons. That's plot armor. Ned, Robb and Catelyn's deaths had meaningful impact on other major characters' storylines.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

emanresu tnuocca posted:

The books would have been so much better if Ned and Robert didn't die and the plot followed Ned's diligent efforts to curb on corruption within the capital.

A multitude of chapters where Ned is trying to get Robert to exercise and diet, hundreds of paragraphs where Ned is being a passive aggressive jerk to Jaime and Cersei. That would have been quite the epic fantasy book series.

Literally every adult male Stark (bastards included) are mindbogglingly stupid because of their sense of honor. Ned, Robb, Jon, even Brandon when his sister runs off. What kind of idiot thinks "the prince and my sister ran off, I'll go to the insane king to demand justice" is a good idea?

Robb marrying someone because she had sympathy sex with him, breaking a vow he made to someone whose men have been fighting in his goddamn army, is a contender for the title though.

Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jan 21, 2016

savinhill
Mar 28, 2010

Evil Fluffy posted:

Literally every adult male Stark (bastards included) are mindbogglingly stupid because of their sense of honor. Ned, Robb, Jon, even Brandon when his sister runs off. What kind of idiot thinks "the prince and my sister ran off, I'll go to the insane king to demand justice" is a good idea?

Robb marrying someone because she had sympathy sex with him, breaking a vow he made to someone whose men have been fighting in his goddamn army, is a contender for the title though.

I'm pretty sure Uncle Brandon was like the least honorable Stark in the past couple of generations, at least if that Northern Lady from the latest book is to be believed when she's throwing around her bitter anecdotes about him to anyone who'll listen. Wasn't his major deal that he was motivated by like his anger and entitlement more than anything else?

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Dany does not have plot armor the way jon/arya/tyrion do, or at least won't once she reaches westeros.

uh she would've starved outside the gates of qarth if her last name was stark.

Evil Fluffy posted:

Literally every adult male Stark (bastards included) are mindbogglingly stupid because of their sense of honor. Ned, Robb, Jon, even Brandon when his sister runs off. What kind of idiot thinks "the prince and my sister ran off, I'll go to the insane king to demand justice" is a good idea?

Robb marrying someone because she had sympathy sex with him, breaking a vow he made to someone whose men have been fighting in his goddamn army, is a contender for the title though.

robb was dumb to marry the girl but nobody would expect to be killed, guest right is pretty much the most sacred thing in the world.

TommyGun85
Jun 5, 2013

Groovelord Neato posted:


robb was dumb to marry the girl but nobody would expect to be killed, guest right is pretty much the most sacred thing in the world.

its also the stupidest thing in the world

Malpais Legate
Oct 1, 2014

As far as stupid societal conventions go I found it less stupid than "eat a horse heart or we murder you for being unfit to bear child."

Xy Hapu
Mar 7, 2004

Lycus posted:

If Arya died now, the Braavos arc would be a bigger dead end than if Quentyn had died before meeting Dany and releasing the dragons. That's plot armor. Ned, Robb and Catelyn's deaths had meaningful impact on other major characters' storylines.

That's just rationalizing it after the fact though, you can just as easily say, "If Robb and Cat died now, the Northern Rebellion arc would be a bigger dead end than if Quentyn had died before meeting Dany and releasing the dragons. That's plot armor. Arya's death had meaningful impact because any time a faceless man tries to use her haunted loving face it incessantly whispers her shopping list in their ear until they forgo all sanity become compelled to kill her next target until they're all dead and her spirit can rest in peace."

TommyGun85
Jun 5, 2013

Malpais Legate posted:

As far as stupid societal conventions go I found it less stupid than "eat a horse heart or we murder you for being unfit to bear child."

thats a social convention for uncivilised savages though.

For intelligent nobles, "you can always have dinner in your enemy's house without any fear" is retarded.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
Guest right can be refused, Robb refuses Tyrion's guest right when he comes back from the wall to winterfell. And besides, Walder Frey says "mayhaps".

As for the horse heart thing, I don't think they kill the Khaleesis who fail, it's just generally a bad omen. Maybe they kill the newborn?

Spun Dog
Sep 21, 2004


Smellrose

TommyGun85 posted:

thats a social convention for uncivilised savages though.

For intelligent nobles, "you can always have dinner in your enemy's house without any fear" is retarded.

The basic concept has kind of been around for a long time, but I'm glad you're here to set everybody straight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospitium

i81icu812
Dec 5, 2006

Spun Dog posted:

The basic concept has kind of been around for a long time, but I'm glad you're here to set everybody straight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospitium

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenia_%28Greek%29


More like all the way back to the foundation of Western Civilization and recorded history? Do schools even teach Homer these days?

wargames
Mar 16, 2008

official yospos cat censor

i81icu812 posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenia_%28Greek%29


More like all the way back to the foundation of Western Civilization and recorded history? Do schools even teach Homer these days?

They teach homer simpson.

TommyGun85
Jun 5, 2013
I am very familiar with the concept. I never said it didnt exist in ancient civilisations and I never suggested that grrm invented it in this universe. I stand by my statement that it is stupid, regardless of its historical accuracy.

and also saying "but the Ancient Greeks and Romans did it" doesnt make it any less ridiculous.

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.
Doesn't seem more ridiculous to me than the whole concept of rules of warfare.

The Slithery D
Jul 19, 2012

TommyGun85 posted:

I am very familiar with the concept. I never said it didnt exist in ancient civilisations and I never suggested that grrm invented it in this universe. I stand by my statement that it is stupid, regardless of its historical accuracy.

and also saying "but the Ancient Greeks and Romans did it" doesnt make it any less ridiculous.

Are white flags for truce talks stupid?

kcroy
May 30, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

doh.

Just read that all, its interesting read for sure.

counterfeitsaint posted:

:gonk: Oh gently caress, bluff called.

It's actually not that bad - if you are into vampires and poo poo. takes place on ye olde time paddle boat in the deep south. It's no wildcards, that is for sure.

emanresu tnuocca posted:

The books would have been so much better if Ned and Robert didn't die and the plot followed Ned's diligent efforts to curb on corruption within the capital.

A multitude of chapters where Ned is trying to get Robert to exercise and diet, hundreds of paragraphs where Ned is being a passive aggressive jerk to Jaime and Cersei. That would have been quite the epic fantasy book series.

Excellent montage scene right there.


Krinkle posted:

she'll never be sent to assassinate jon and sacrifice herself when forced to choose between her new and old lives because to me it seems to be building towards that?

I think this as well.

Malpais Legate posted:

As far as stupid societal conventions go I found it less stupid than "eat a horse heart or we murder you for being unfit to bear child."

They weren't going to murder her were they? Also that heart was way the gently caress too small.

TommyGun85 posted:

thats a social convention for uncivilised savages though.

For intelligent nobles, "you can always have dinner in your enemy's house without any fear" is retarded.

I like it. I think it is a great convention.

kcroy fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Jan 21, 2016

I Love Loosies
Jan 4, 2013


TommyGun85 posted:

I am very familiar with the concept. I never said it didnt exist in ancient civilisations and I never suggested that grrm invented it in this universe. I stand by my statement that it is stupid, regardless of its historical accuracy.

and also saying "but the Ancient Greeks and Romans did it" doesnt make it any less ridiculous.

Any reason you think it's stupid?

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

"It has no directly equivalent paradigm in my life therefore is too archaic to be relevant in any way."

TommyGun85
Jun 5, 2013

General Bort posted:

Any reason you think it's stupid?

not particularly

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum
It's almost like it's some kind of social convention created by a bunch of people who would really love to stab their political rivals while said rivals are in their homes, but who would prefer not to get stabbed whenever they're in somebody else's home, which they will have to do a lot because of vast distances they may travel.

The Slithery D
Jul 19, 2012
LOL if you think the Iranians did anything wrong seizing the US embassy or attacking the Saudi one, I guess.

TommyGun85
Jun 5, 2013

The Slithery D posted:

LOL if you think the Iranians did anything wrong seizing the US embassy or attacking the Saudi one, I guess.

the Americans didnt believe that not having their embassy attacked was a god-given right even though they traditionally believe in different gods than the Iranians.



anyway, have a field day over this amongst yourselves if you want. Im over it.

SaviourX
Sep 30, 2003

The only true Catwoman is Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether, or Eartha Kitt.

TommyGun85 posted:

anyway, have a field day over this amongst yourselves if you want. Im over it.

I tell facts!

Tim Burns Effect
Apr 1, 2011

so whens the new book coming out?

Woodpile
Mar 30, 2013

Tim Burns Effect posted:

so whens the new book coming out?

When the sun diarrheas in the west and poo poo.

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POLICE CAR AUCTION
Dec 1, 2003

I'm not a princess



Tim Burns Effect posted:

so whens the new book coming out?

lol

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