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Yeah..
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Apr 13, 2021 12:38
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Jaxyon posted:You first. I think they are quite fun and humorous. 
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Apr 13, 2021 13:33
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:. And despite all the other fantasy conceits, there's no like miraculous Dwarf Fortress style crop that can be grown year-round underground and which is nourishing if bland or whatever. There has to have been, he just forgot about it. I mean doesn't winterfell have some amazing hot spring heating or something that seemed really important the first time I read it, but then was never mentioned again? mind the walrus posted:I don't like to judge a man, but honestly Gaiman was a goth kid idol in the 90s, so it can't help but strike me as weird that out of all the women he ended up going with Palmer. I don't know her, but how is she not a good match. She looks pretty on point. 
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Apr 13, 2021 16:25
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https://twitter.com/alloy_dr/status/1382022886941147141?s=20
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Apr 13, 2021 18:30
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Did they ever explain the seasons thing? Was it due to the Others/White Walkers or whatever?
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Apr 13, 2021 18:32
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Lol no ofc not.
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Apr 13, 2021 18:55
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mastajake posted:Did they ever explain the ______ thing? Was it due to the Others/White Walkers or whatever? No they do not ever explain _______ .
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Apr 13, 2021 19:03
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Speaking of explanations, I keep wondering how in hell the Eyrie got built. You've got that mini-Bridge of Khazad-Dum segment that Catelyn freak out on and the stairs that it would seem are impossible to truck massive amounts of marble up to build the place.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:10
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Hijinks Ensue posted:Speaking of explanations, I keep wondering how in hell the Eyrie got built. You've got that mini-Bridge of Khazad-Dum segment that Catelyn freak out on and the stairs that it would seem are impossible to truck massive amounts of marble up to build the place. Dragons flew the stones up there. Obviously.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:13
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Probably like most old grand structures: Slaves, lots and lots of slaves.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:15
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lol I watched that Last Bronycon documentary. Jenny Nicholson is a very good youtuber. I'm still mostly perplexed at that fandom but that video made about as much sense out of it as it possibly could. And George really hosed up his Hugo speech. It's pretty obvious that while he is happy that fandom around sci/fantasy has grown so much, he's not especially happy with how it has moved the spotlight off old white men. Sure, old white men are still making most of the money, but at these community awards shows they're not being feted like the guys he grew up idolizing! A part of him definitely knows it is fine that the community has moved on and so he tries to highlight some of the big new authors, but he can't help but be trapped by waves of nostalgia and has to bring everything back to his heroes.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:19
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Invalid Validation posted:Probably like most old grand structures: Slaves, lots and lots of slaves. Not in our world anyway, like it's well documented that the builders of the pyramids were not slaves, and what exactly they were paid at various periods. Building a big rear end thing is a task for skilled labor, generally. Side note- there's actually no evidence that the Jews were ever even in Egypt at all, though some historians believe they may have been somewhere that identified themselves as Egyptians (falsely) because Egypt was a badass empire at that time.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:26
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Ccs posted:And George really hosed up his Hugo speech. It's pretty obvious that while he is happy that fandom around sci/fantasy has grown so much, he's not especially happy with how it has moved the spotlight off old white men. Sure, old white men are still making most of the money, but at these community awards shows they're not being feted like the guys he grew up idolizing! A part of him definitely knows it is fine that the community has moved on and so he tries to highlight some of the big new authors, but he can't help but be trapped by waves of nostalgia and has to bring everything back to his heroes. pseudanonymous posted:ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: No they do not ever explain _______ . Invalid Validation posted:Probably like most old grand structures: Slaves, lots and lots of slaves. TERFherder posted:I don't know her, but how is she not a good match. She looks pretty on point.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:33
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mind the walrus posted:camelot fetish so what Haha yeah that's exactly what it is. Hadn't heard it put like that before.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:38
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mastajake posted:Did they ever explain the seasons thing? Was it due to the Others/White Walkers or whatever? Oh yes, extensively! You have to read all the books though, as the little bits are sprinkled into off-hand remarks throughout. There's this freaky continent to the far West of Westeros called Valeris or Valyris or something, and the Targayens came from there. Thousands and thousands of years ago something happened called the "Doom of Valeris", when the people the Targayens came from hosed up really and blew up everything with magic. Since then seasons take multiple years. At some point after that the original Targayens arrived in Westeros. Apparently they flew from their doomed continent all the way to Westeros with their dragons. They then used their dragons to conquer Westeros. 500 years passed. Then the rebellion happens and the last Targayens have to flee while their daddy gets his stupid insane head chopped off. Now the first book begins.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:08
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In the GRRMiverse the medieval age has been going strong for 6,000 years. There was somehow never a DaVinci or Newton or Ben Franklin or whatever. They just stalled out 5,700 years ago and stuck with making GBS threads in the streets and boiling leather. On one hand, that's impressively stupid that no one figured out electricity or chemistry or most of your basic renaissance discoveries in 6000 years of medieval time. But on the other hand, that means you can have ludicrously stupid poo poo like the wall or the eyrie or the great pyramid of Meereen because that's a bonus 5000+ years of doing ancient world poo poo like slaves dying en masse building stupid poo poo.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:18
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There's also magic. There's often no reason to invent something if you can just ask your neighbor to cast a spell to help you out Apparently the reason magic in current Westeros is so funky is also due to dragon vikings: The Doom of Whatever not only made seasons stupid, it also lead to this weird Earthdawn-poo poo of magic slowly coming and going over the ages. The Others awakening and magic coming back is because it's also magic season now. GRRM doesn't tell us anything about the rhythm, though. But poo poo like the Nightwatch getting hosed up by magic zombies in the past tells us that magic is coming and going quite regularly every 500 years or something. The last time it was magic season was apparently when the Targayens hosed everything up with their dragons, and then the dragons eventually died because it was notmagic season. Truly a strange coincidence that magic season starts coming back just in time for the series to start!  Edit: GRRM never bothers to tell us, but logic dictates that, like this Winter being Super-Winter, the coming magic age is also something special. This would then explain why the Others are truly returning, instead of just loving with the Nightwatch a bit before pissing off again. If I get the plot beats right GRRM had planned before he stopped writing, it would probably have gone something: -Political human bullshit -OTHERS ATTACK -Dragons, magic and stuff defeats the Others -Maybe the protags now need to go visit WestContinent (optional) -The balance is restored, magic goes back to normal, seasons return to normal -To keep the ending from not being mature and grimdark enough, 1d6 other important characters get killed. -Some human gets to be king of the ruins of Westeros Send me a PM in 2121 when the next book comes out, I want to see how close I got Libluini fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 20:38
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A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:My favorite bit is the continent spanning from unimaginable cold to the equatorial desert and yet you can travel it on foot in 3 days or 7 years depending on plot necessity. "I wisely started with a map." -John "the better" R.R. Tolkien
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Apr 13, 2021 21:19
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The British Martin.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:32
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A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:In the GRRMiverse the medieval age has been going strong for 6,000 years. The great man theory of history is not imo very accurate. Newton was beaten to the punch on publishing the Calculcus, there's a reason we use Leibniz notation, and Darwin only published because his cousin or nephew threatened to publish virtually the same theory of evolution. The whole idea of like "humanity has been stuck in the medieval era for XXXXXXX years" is pretty stupid tbh, human history is a history of technological progress, and while there are periods where things seemed to slide backwards, the invention of the dark ages occurred during the enlightenment in order to make their own era seem more enlightened. In fact many historians refer to the Carolingian renaissance now, due to various inventions like 3-field crop rotation that occurred smack in the middle of the "dark ages". Without a world element holding back progress deliberately, it would occur. And again, things like the pyramids weren't built by mass slaves. It's just a misreading of history to believe that. I'm sure there were slaves involved, but you have to plan out something like that pretty carefully and organize it.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:35
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Libluini posted:
Ah. An optimist then.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:58
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Deptfordx posted:Ah. An optimist then. I'm pretty sure he means when this cycle ends, 2121 of the PCE, post common era and we use Martin's reconstructed personality matrix and cajole it with nude casting couch sessions in an accelerated time bubble to finish the books.
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Apr 13, 2021 22:11
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Ccs posted:lol I watched that Last Bronycon documentary. You reminded me this existed so I'm watching it now, Jenny has some solid voice acting chops (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fVOF2PiHnc&t=1515s if anyone is curious)
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Apr 13, 2021 23:02
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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pseudanonymous posted:The great man theory of history is not imo very accurate. I wasn't talking about. I was saying in 6000 years we, here, on earth, went from cave dwelling to space flight and whatever CERN is. Planetos went from year X as cave dwellers to year Y as medieval society (roughly our 4000 b.c. to 1300 a.d.) Then spun their wheels as a medieval society for another 6000 years. It would be like if we, here, now, were still in the boiled leather and stone castle age and still would be 4000+ years from now, having never discovered any of the landmarks of science. It's really dumb that human progress just completely ceased for 6 millennia in Planetos.
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Apr 13, 2021 23:16
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What a cruel world this is where people have to choose between Jenny Nicholson and telling GRRM to gently caress off.
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Apr 13, 2021 23:21
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Westeros is really more Renaissance/Age of Absolutism than truly medieval, except there is no gunpowder for some reason.
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Apr 13, 2021 23:23
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A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:I wasn't talking about.  Like you're absolutely right. It could have been explained if GRRM had half a brain about the size/scale of his world and what was actually going on with the magic, but this is a man who wants to turn a desert home into a castle so planning is not a strong suit.
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Apr 13, 2021 23:23
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Did the Hugos give away an award for best acceptance speech again? That's about all I know about the Hugos.
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Apr 14, 2021 02:21
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Solice Kirsk posted:Did the Hugos give away an award for best acceptance speech again? That's about all I know about the Hugos. Maybe? The "Related Work" category is very broad. The "gently caress off GRRM" thing from that nomination slate, for example, is a blog post kicking the poo poo out of GRRM for being a lazy host and butchering the names of all the nominees from last year's Hugos. So a piece of writing criticizing the host of previous year's Hugo Awards is now a nominee for this years Hugo Awards. Oh and this is also after a group of conservative authors tried to hijack the Hugo nominations because they were mad too many women and people of colour were getting awards and they weren't and it took the nominating committee like three years to figure out what they were doing and come up with a way to try and stop them. The Hugos are kind of a joke, yeah.
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Apr 14, 2021 07:29
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Kuiperdolin posted:Westeros is really more Renaissance/Age of Absolutism than truly medieval, except there is no gunpowder for some reason. the word you're searching for is early modern
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Apr 14, 2021 09:27
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pseudanonymous posted:The great man theory of history is not imo very accurate. Newton was beaten to the punch on publishing the Calculcus, there's a reason we use Leibniz notation, and Darwin only published because his cousin or nephew threatened to publish virtually the same theory of evolution. egypt had house slaves, and sometimes they used war prisoners as slaves, but other than that they didn't have slaves. the pyramid workers weren't all professionals, most of them were peasants paying their taxes with work. and egypt definitely didn't do any stalin-like deportations of whole nations
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Apr 14, 2021 09:31
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A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:In the GRRMiverse the medieval age has been going strong for 6,000 years.
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Apr 14, 2021 12:05
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A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:I wasn't talking about. We built settlements as (only confirmed times from archaeology here) early as roughly 12000 BCE, so your calculus is a bit off there. Modern science also says Jericho has been founded around 10000 BCE, and must have had 3000 people living in it around 8000 BCE. And it certainly wasn't the oldest city, just the oldest we found yet. Cave dwelling humans have been around for forever. We know from Australia and Aboriginal cave paintings that their civilization was already around by 48000 BCE, since we have several dated places where remnants of settlements have been found. And we also found out that there was another wave of humans arriving, living, and dying out in Australia before the Aborigines. Those must have arrived around 100k BCE and went extinct by roughly 75k BCE. I'm just bringing all these details up to show you that spinning your wheels for 6000 years isn't exactly uncommon. It apparently took us several hundred thousand years to upgrade from "cave dwellers" to "bronze age dwellers". I can excuse this because if there's magic around, technological advances should tend to grind to a halt. If there's enough magic to go around, you arrive at absurd scenarios like people not even bothering with the wheel since they can just magically float all their stuff. The only question remaining is: Did GRRM actually take all this into account, or was he just lucky the Bible is wrong and mankind's history didn't immediately start on Monday 1st January 4000 BCE?
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Apr 14, 2021 12:06
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KJ Parker has his stories set in like a 10k year continuum where everything is always around the tech level of the Byzantine empire. Part of it is that he just likes that kind of setting, the other is he may be cynical enough to believe that humans will always gently caress up enough to bring themselves back to that level over enough time.
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Apr 14, 2021 14:42
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Was it the Aztecs or Mayans that never bothered using wheels? Tech develops differently across civilizations, so if a world just never bothered with an industrial revolution then I could see it plugging along at the middle ages for several thousand years.
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Apr 14, 2021 15:30
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Solice Kirsk posted:Was it the Aztecs or Mayans that never bothered using wheels? Tech develops differently across civilizations, so if a world just never bothered with an industrial revolution then I could see it plugging along at the middle ages for several thousand years. Both. But it's also sort of a myth: they invented the wheel, they just never bothered using it for carts/chariots/etc, probably because the lack of draft animals for heavy labor made it less appealing.
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Apr 14, 2021 15:52
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Solice Kirsk posted:Was it the Aztecs or Mayans that never bothered using wheels? Tech develops differently across civilizations, so if a world just never bothered with an industrial revolution then I could see it plugging along at the middle ages for several thousand years. South America has some of the most hostile landscape Humans can be found in, so yeah, a lot of SA-civilizations never bothered with the wheel, since it wasn't really useful for carrying poo poo. They did make wheel-shape art objects and traded those around, so it's not like they didn't know what wheels were. They just never had a use for them, and so the entire wheel-related development (including things like mills or advanced mechanics) just bypassed them. They did other things better, though. The Inca for example became really good at treating wounds related to blunt trauma, like concussions. Arguably better than even contemporary Europe, but that's speculation since Europeans destroyed so much of South America's heritage.
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Apr 14, 2021 15:57
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There's also the fact that the only source to Westeros' history is the Maesters, which might not be the most reliable source.
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Apr 14, 2021 16:49
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ChubbyChecker posted:the word you're searching for is early modern Right. Regular transoceanic journeys, centralized power, mostly-secular worldview, the whole maester deal... All that is post-medieval.
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Apr 14, 2021 16:59
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Libluini posted:I'm just bringing all these details up to show you that spinning your wheels for 6000 years isn't exactly uncommon. It apparently took us several hundred thousand years to upgrade from "cave dwellers" to "bronze age dwellers". You're comparing drastically different stages of humanity. Humanity was also still progressing in those periods but it's hard to gauge to what extent because of how few things can survive thousands of years. In ASOIAF they understand astronomy and other sciences well enough and managed to do so and stagnate for thousands of years while the closest analogy for humanity involves comparing it to the earliest human civilizations when Westeros is far beyond that. As mentioned before, Westeros had to go thousands of years without any sort of noteworthy inventor and they did so while also having Oldtown's university-like education system. The lack of progress would require active repression of creativity on a global scale or some massive regression-inflicting events on a regular basis.
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Apr 14, 2021 17:05
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