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b0lt posted:I'd put Steven Erikson on par with GURM on dialog (kruppe rules) and higher with respect to world building. More importantly he actually treats writing as a job and puts books out of the length of DWD every year or so, instead of making readers wait 6 years between books. I can't care about the world of the Malazan series if no one in it is interesting at all (and that's a pervasive Erikson flaw) before you say anything, I read all ten books and yeah, anyone interesting was put aside for three books on a level that would make the GRRM whiners blush and by the time they came back I was more than bored with the world. GRRM may not provide as epic of a world, but it's filled with such vibrancy and lush characters that I can forgive it, completely. Also ADWD may be close to the best ASOIAF book yet. Azure_Horizon fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 07:35
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Gangringo posted:When I got to the part where Tyrion meets Penny and rides the pig all I could think of was Peter Dinklage reading it and giving a long, slow, mournful sigh. I laughed as hard at that as I did with Quentyn's fate. GRRM is a master of intentional and unintentional humor.
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Jul 17, 2011 23:04
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mcable posted:What the gently caress kind of knot was there in Mereen if this is the "solution". Mereen is as big a clusterfuck as ever with the city still being sieged, two dragons on the loose, Tyrion/Victarion/Marwyn still haven't meet Dany, and Dany making GBS threads around in the middle of the Dothraki sea. Depends on what you like about the series. I felt AFFC/ADWD had not only the strongest writing of the series, but some of its biggest gamechangers and the setup for TWoW pretty much cements that the next book will be the best ASOIAF yet by a thousand million leagues. It's just that people seem to hate backstory and worldbuilding which these two books have mostly given us, while I found it fascinating and fleshed out Westeros as a character more than any previous book had attempted to. I don't take reader reviews with anything more than a pinch of salt -- the professional reviews have pointed out a lot of the reasons I love AFFC and ADWD, and that's just fine with me. I do believe that Dany's last chapter has proven that the knot will be destroyed early on in TWoW.
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Jul 18, 2011 02:44
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I felt like Quentyn was there, also, to prove the whole "words are wind" phrase that keeps getting repeated by everyone. He thought that the words of Dorne would convince Dany... and they didn't. They did absolutely nothing, as useless as the breeze.
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Jul 18, 2011 04:53
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mcable posted:My point was to compare the critical acclaim for ADWD to the initial fan reactions. By your line of thinking then the raves from the media is also almost completely meaningless. Consider that the hype for ASOIAF is at an all-time high right now with the HBO series, the huge boost in sales for the first 4 books (4 million this year, as someone in this thread pointed out), and the excitement surrounding the release of ADWD. For a lot of reasons -- Incredible writing, awesome worldbuilding, interesting new themes introduced (disease, new Targaryens, winter ACTUALLY coming), and a lot of awesome setup for what is no doubt going to be an incredible sixth entry. I, for one, can definitely understand the overwhelming critical acclaim.
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Jul 18, 2011 06:34
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Decius posted:2/3 loving awesome + 1/3 boring, medicore still makes a pretty great book. The Blackwater and Tyrion/Arya aside ACoK was worse in my opinion. The major complaint about ADWD for me is the lack of a climax/payoff. I always thought I was alone on this. I feel like ACOK is the weakest of the series by far.
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Jul 18, 2011 07:52
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dumb brunette posted:Yeah, ACOK is personally my least favorite. The first half of it is a goddamn drag to get through, first read or reread. Storm is still the best in the series, but ADWD contains probably the best actual prose -- it's just that it's still mostly setup. I agree. Storm is pretty much the best fantasy book ever written, buuuuuuuut, with all the setup we got the past two books I really expect Winds of Winter to top it.
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Jul 18, 2011 08:07
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Xander77 posted:A) A better prose writer than Tolkien isn't even praise to be damned with. Well, yeah, he's not a great writer if we're putting him up against the greats, but he's by far the best in the genre, approaching levels of contemporary fiction masterpieces. However, AFFC/ADWD's writing is superb.
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Jul 18, 2011 18:37
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I saw Dany's stupidity as a conflict between head vs. heart. She THINKS she's the blood of the dragon, and that she could just give in and gently caress everyone up and kill them all, but at the same time, she has a heart, and that heart wants to lead the people she had freed to a better life. But all the people surrounding her all want different things, and she can't please them all. I feel like her last chapter through the Dothraki Sea showed us that she has finally taken in the advice of all those most important in her life, and figured out that she unfortunately cannot plant trees, only burn them. And then when the dust settles, maybe she can make some semblance of rule from all the charred remains.
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Jul 18, 2011 23:11
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I really hope Dany goes to Asshai in Book Six. Then further east to wrap around the world and land right at loving... wait. Casterly Rock is on the western shores of Westeros... and if Tyrion meets Dany in the next book, well... awesome I want that place to burn to the ground.
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Jul 19, 2011 20:26
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Pwnstar posted:Here's how to do Meereen: Don't. All the political squabbling in Meereen would make for great HBO drama, though.
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Jul 20, 2011 16:58
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I would say that the archaic spellings and different spellings aren't even annoying at all. What IS annoying is that suddenly everyone lives by the phrase, "Words are wind." I could see this being applicable to Quentyn's arc, and makes sense there considering what happens to him in Dany's court, but... how did everyone in the world begin to believe this?
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Jul 21, 2011 02:22
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Fists Up posted:I am getting annoyed a little by this but I dont think I'll give up. It just means I wont get annoyed because I am totally expecting it to be years before the next book. When it comes it comes but I won't be waiting. The TV show at least has a schedule I can follow. They are totally gonna catch up to him considering the popularity of the show. Two major events were shuffled into the next book.
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Jul 25, 2011 03:30
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Master Kush posted:That is good to hear. Though I still am a bit concerned, as the scale of the books do increase, resulting in more expenses. They could cheap out and do what they are doing now and showing little battles with a few people or skipping them altogether. On one hand it would increase the longevity of the show as less expense means the greater chance it would be renewed, but I would be disappointed if they scale things down or skipped things such as the battle of the Blackwater. Well, considering there's only like three battles they'd ever have to really show across ACOK/ASOS, and then no big battles in AFFC/ADWD, they might be able to cut expenses just by virtue of the plot itself. I still find the complaint about 'not much happening' in ADWD to be hilariously false.
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Jul 25, 2011 21:27
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:Well, the whole Meereen half of the plot I think was definitely a little dragged out. But yeah, I don't know where the hell people get off claiming nothing happened in Jon's chapters. What? The dude forged an alliance with thousands of wildlings, re-manned forts that had lain abandoned for centuries, started restoration of said forts, exploited the conflict between Stannis, Cersei, and the Iron Bank to conjure up enough money out of thin loving air to feed all these people through the winter, then got all Caesar'd. It was a great plotline, and really eventful. I dunno how on earth people are complaining about that. I will agree that the Meereen half was a drag, but I'm one of the few who enjoyed the political side of it all. The fact that Dany can't appease everyone, the fact that she's got her hands tied behind her back because of all the people chomping at the bit to either see her dead or get her on their side. I think Drogon coming back was a significant plot movement and can only hope to escalate her chapters in TWOW (though I have full faith that book will be the best ASOIAF book yet).
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Jul 25, 2011 21:47
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lapse posted:If he's unable to keep it concise, I'd rather have an extra-long book that still covers all the intended developments, rather than a short book that necessitates an 8th and 9th book, etc. I agree, and I loved the poo poo out of ADWD.
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Jul 27, 2011 00:22
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threeagainstfour posted:So assuming that Winds of Winter doesn't make them absolutely key to the plot, what bits of Dance with Dragons/Feast for Bros can successfully be left out of the television series? Right now I'm betting that they can cut literally everything to do with Dorne past the the Red Viper and his duel with Gregor.
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Jul 27, 2011 01:52
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Royality posted:Having finished the book, I expected - to the last - that something had to happen. I got that horrible feeling as I approached the last couple of chapters that even the battle outside Meereen wasn't going to happen, and with every subsequent chapter it got stronger and stronger. I finally realised, upon reading the first few lines of the epilogue, that holy poo poo GRRM genuinely did not include the loving climax to the entire book. This is not being a cock-tease, this is being a bad author. Except things DO happen. I absolutely CANNOT understand how people say nothing happened in ADWD. There were no resolutions, but THINGS HAPPENED.
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Jul 27, 2011 21:45
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EC posted:This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but I get the impression sometimes that people want GRRM to just provide a list of plot points as opposed to writing the next book. I love all the background, the history, the world-building...I don't need to rush to the ultimate climax anytime soon. I'd like the books sooner rather than later, of course, but not everything needs to happen right loving now for the book to be good. Truer words cannot be said.
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Jul 29, 2011 02:11
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Effectronica posted:My problem isn't with the world or with GRRM spending time there, it's just that the overall narrative is noticeably bloating and starting to go into a tailspin. I'd really rather he start writing faux-guidebooks to Westeros or short stories or whatever as sideworks to ASOIAF, and instead focused on tightening up the narrative. But on the other hand, genre fiction is bought and sold based on length rather than any sort of quality, especially SF/F. Well, the quality is still top-notch, so I don't see ASOIAF delving into average genre fiction.
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Jul 29, 2011 04:23
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Neurosis posted:How does aiding the invasion of 40 000 Mongol-esque barbarians who understand no currency but rape and pillage fit into this vision of a peaceful Westeros? Doesn't the end of ADWD prove she isn't barren?
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Jul 29, 2011 09:26
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Levitate posted:Are you making GBS threads me it took him 6 years to write another AFfC what the gently caress They are two halves of the same book, and AFFC was fantastic.
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Jul 29, 2011 20:35
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withak posted:That is the kind of thing we would learn in a book where stuff actually happens. So... A Dance With Dragons? That's a book where stuff actually happens.
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Jul 29, 2011 22:46
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AngusPodgorny posted:I think any competently written and edited novel should never disappoint. If there's a section that makes the reader think "god, this is tedious and pointless, when will the author move on," then it should be fixed, and if it's not, I feel entitled to complain about it. He is. Even when he missteps he trounces his peers.
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Jul 31, 2011 06:13
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Amethyst posted:Did the latest book reveal who killed Jofferey? I have no interest in reading any further but am wondering if the long winded author finally got around to tying up that dangling thread. Sounds like someone didn't actually read the past four books.
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Jul 31, 2011 11:36
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bigmcgaffney posted:Its possible that people skip the Dany chapters because they find them to be horribly written and/or boring. But I guess those opinions don't count unless they actually read said chapters, and when they turn out to be indeed boring, then that opinion is also invalid for some reason? I don't think he writes these books to please everyone. In fact, that's the worst thing you could do as a writer. But yes, you need to read every chapter or your opinion holds no weight. That's like watching half of a movie, declaring it boring, then drawing your own conclusions as to its other half in terms of entertainment/quality.
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Aug 1, 2011 04:15
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Substar posted:In Martin's July 30th blog, he mentions going to Bungie a few times while he was in Seattle. Think there is a ASOIAF game in the works?! They're doing SOMETHING ASOIAF-related, but that's as far as we can gleam from it.
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Aug 2, 2011 04:08
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hypocrite lecteur posted:If the tales coming up the kingsroad could be believed, the King's Hand had been murdered by his dwarf son whilst sitting on a privy. I'm waiting for your posts not to read exactly the same every single time you post in here. In that you've probably bashed GRRM as a writer at least five times in the past few days.
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Aug 5, 2011 07:31
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Rootbeer Baron posted:Joffrey cut up a book and threw the pieces at Tyrion which is what everyone should have done to gurm with their copies of Dance. Man, these jokes are getting so very old. Even if I disliked the book, it's so big that it can be used as a weapon. And that's a use GRRM never intended.
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Aug 6, 2011 03:23
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Adama posted:Both the posters you quoted have explained that they both know that the words exist and know their meaning... they aren't complaining that Martin is using words that they don't understand. Might as well not even write a fantasy novel at all if you don't want to insert British influence into it.
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Aug 7, 2011 03:20
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elron posted:Dude, I'm not even old, but you sure made me feel like it. Eh, the Hyperion series uses "Lions and Tigers and Bears" as a description of an otherworldly group of omniscient beings, so I've disassociated the words with the Wizard of Oz.
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Aug 8, 2011 01:02
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hhhmmm posted:Because the last two books are poorly edited. The only bad editing in the last two books has been repeated phrases. The writing is his best yet and some of the most evocative fantasy writing in years.
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Aug 9, 2011 03:35
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hellbastard posted:I got retard drunk the other night and was asking complete strangers where whores go. I believe that everyone's words are wind.
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Aug 9, 2011 04:43
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Amethyst posted:Except there are universal complaints about pacing, here and on amazon. This could have been fixed by a good editor. I don't have nearly the same issues with the pacing as other people do. I enjoyed all the slow worldbuilding and lack of plot movement. I couldn't care less about Amazon reviews.
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Aug 9, 2011 05:40
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Nebalebadingdong posted:Finally finished this book and the only thing I really wanted from the ending was a hilarious description of Daario being thrown from a trebuchet. Except they more or less did. People seem to forget that plot threads were left entirely dangling in every ASOIAF novel, not just the last two. They may not have been glaringly obvious, but ASOS left just as much cliffhangers as the rest.
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Aug 9, 2011 18:33
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Habibi posted:Except that those books at least resolved some threads before leaving you hanging on others. The ASOS equivalent of AFFC/DWD would have the book ending before the Moutain/Red Viper fight, before Tyrion's escape, etc... The book would have likely ended when 10 separate threads came together to foreshadow Joffrey's poisoning and the last line would have been, "He tipped the chalice back and opened his mouth." I would not have appreciated AFFC/DWD written in the same way that ASOS was. If he just continued chugging along, we would have lost a huge chunk of worldlore that I think would have hurt the series in the long run. I know people are just so disappointed that things weren't resolved, but I'm pretty sure you also know that the next book will do just what you want.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:05
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I find it hilarious and amusing that every ASOIAF thread on the Internet has people up in arms about gay characters. Jon Connington is gay, deal with it. And I'd rather read about his gayness than just about every lesbian scene in the series.
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Aug 22, 2011 06:54
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lapse posted:People are being dumb in this thread, but honestly I think gay characters are handled pretty well in this series. Much more-so than, say, female characters. I think the reason Connington's chapters had such quick plot movement is that him and Aegon are new players in the game, relatively unopposed and blindsiding pretty much everyone. Only Varys and Tyrion seem to know they exist. Once they face the fact that Westeros is incredibly fractured, I imagine their taking over of places will slow down considerably.
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Aug 23, 2011 00:19
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I can understand missing Blackfish/Connington/... Dolorous Edd's homosexuality, but if you missed Renly/Loras as a couple then you must have been reading every third word. Especially since GRRM himself outright stated it.
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Aug 23, 2011 03:40
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Mr.Brinks posted:You forgot Selmy, who is definitely Bi. Someone's gonna have to point out where Selmy's bi, because he spends most of the latter half of ADWD fantasizing about women.
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Aug 23, 2011 03:45
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