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So yeah, I just finished the book. I wasn't expecting that much, but I was positively surprised by this one. It's a contender for my favorite book in the series. Some bad things though: The Tyrion chapters were the Brienne chapters of the book, but I never really cared about him in the first place so oh well. gently caress Baby-Aegon. The Daario Naharis/Daenerys romance was terrible in Storms and it is terrible in this one as well. Yes, I get that she's 15 years old and has raging hormones, it still doesn't make much sense at all. Other than that I had a great time reading it. The Theon chapters were particularly gripping. e; Ramsay is lying about Stannis, Jon is totally dead. This book also made me appreciate Lord Manderly. "Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived, he would have grown up to be a Frey" indeed  . He might me my new favorite northern lord, replacing Roose.And gently caress you Varys.  SER KEVAN .e2; It was however obvious that he had to cut a lot of stuff out of this book as well, and it was fairly disjointed. Kainser fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jul 14, 2011 |
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Jul 14, 2011 01:02
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Ser Kevan and Pycelle dying were the only things that I got spoiled for me. I kept hoping that it was a fake spoiler, but I was wrong  Ser Kevan dying seriously bothers me more than the Red Wedding.
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Jul 14, 2011 13:58
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Kaizer88 posted:loving Daario. At least he probably ended up thrown by the trebuchets into Mereen. Ha-Ha I think that the Theon and Davos chapters are what lifted this book from decent to great for me. e; I loved seeing Stannis march through the North in Asha's chapters as well. Kainser fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jul 14, 2011 |
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Jul 14, 2011 15:01
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I thought the 'Ugly Little Girl' or whatever chapter was going to be Shireen. I was so disappointed 
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Jul 14, 2011 16:09
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Gaussian posted:I figured out the Mance thing about midway through the chapter where Theon escapes. That was a real headslapper.
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Jul 14, 2011 22:52
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I just realized that the fact that Tyrion didn't get Greyscale (and the plague in Mereen for that matter) even though the Griffin dude got it from touching him might be a hint that he's a secret Targ, seeing as Targs are immune to many diseases apparently e; Or it's just Tyrion's plot armor showing up again. He have survived way to many dangerous situations for it to feel realistic. e; I do however think that GRRM was thinking 'Wait, my readers think Tyrion is a secret Targ? Heh, let's see if I can troll more people into thinking that' when he added the 'Aerys wanted to gently caress Tywin's wife'-line though. Kainser fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jul 14, 2011 |
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Jul 14, 2011 23:01
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bengraven posted:As for the Targ thing, when Selmy says that Aerys took the bedding a bit too far, I think it was more of sticking his fingers in her or rubbing her up and down. I think he literally said something about Aerys not being able to take advantage of "first night". I think he just molested Joanna, not hosed her. I personally don't think he did it, but that line increased the likelihood of it.
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Jul 14, 2011 23:34
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Jon is definitely no longer the Lord Commander at the very least, even if he somehow gets back from being stabbed to death, which I doubt. (I can't see the Night's Watch accepting him if he is resurrected or wargs into another body), it'll be interesting to see who is elected as number 999. I'm hoping that it'll be Thorne  Unless the whole thing is dissolved and the wildlings take over or something. e; Maybe Jon wargs into the giant 
Kainser fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 00:09
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Aegon meeting Daenerys would have potential. He has the best claim to the throne, but she has dragons Assuming of course that Aegon isn't the Mummer's Dragon and fake.
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Jul 15, 2011 16:50
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Daenerys is a 14-year (maybe 15 now?) old girl in ~irrational love~. Her actions that doesn't involve Daario are usually fairly reasonable considering her age. e; You can draw parallels between her and Robb really. Kainser fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 21:11
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^^^Stannis owns. And yeah, GRRM should totally get a cameo as one of the Manderlys in the show. Oh, and gently caress Ramsay. Domeric Bolton sounded like an awesome dude  e; It seems like I'm the only one who liked Penny. I personally think that the boatride down the river was the weakest part of Tyrion's chapters. Kainser fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 23:41
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What's going on around Winterfell is just so incredibly vague. Didn't the Banker say that the only people left in Winterfell were the Umber-dude and a few men at arms waiting for Stannis? Did they switch side or something? 
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Jul 16, 2011 01:28
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Aurubin posted:Am I alone in hoping Varys dies horribly? I mean I didn't really feel that bad for Kevan Lannister, but seriously, the "for the realm" bullshit is tiring. Unless he's got some super secret prophetic knowledge, his plans have hosed up the ASoIaF world more than anyone else's. Oh, and this is the best armor description in the books: quote:Back where the press was the thickest at the center of the column rode a man armored in dark grey plate over a quilted tunic of blood-red leather. His rondels were wrought in the shape of human heads, with open mouths that shrieked in agony. From his shoulders streamed a pink woolen cloak embroidered with droplets of blood. Long streamers of red silk fluttered from the top of his closed helm. And I agree that Roose Bolton basically is Tywin with his pragmatism, and not unrealistically evil or whatever. And Ramsay is an obvious psychopath. e; GRRM needs to cut down on 'as useless as nipples on a breastplate' Kainser fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Jul 16, 2011 |
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Jul 16, 2011 13:55
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Xander77 posted:I don't get Roose's endgame. So he becomes King in the North (or a de facto equivalent) dies, Ramsay (whom he loving loathes) takes over and kills all his brothers, acts like a psychopath, pisses everything Roose got away. It's not like Tywin's big Lannister dynasty plans,so... ? How old is Roose anyway? He mentions that he won't live enough to see his sons with Walda reach manhood, but I always thought that he was 50 years old at most.
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Jul 16, 2011 14:16
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Silas the Mariner posted:Varys saw that Kevan was capable of stabilizing the realm.  I just don't get why he (apparently) loves house Targaryen so much. I realize that his "I HATE MAGIC"-speech in Clash might have been a complete fabrication, but he never seemed like a guy who would care that much about the Targs and the rightful line of succession anyway. e; My main problem is with 'for the realm' really. Sure, he can be pro-Targaryen, but the people of the realm doesn't give a gently caress about whether Tommen or Aegon rules, and would probably prefer to have Kevan stabilizing the realm for a few years over a reignited civil war. Kainser fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jul 16, 2011 |
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Jul 16, 2011 15:57
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Roark posted:It could be a hedge. Or - assuming that Aegon is a real Targaryen - that they hope they'll marry and rule as king and queen, ala the old Targ inter-family marriages.
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Jul 16, 2011 16:01
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Varys will get stabbed and then we find out that he had a dick all along! 
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Jul 16, 2011 19:31
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I think the 'point' with the Quentyn chapters was to add some conflict between Dorne and Daenerys in future books.
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Jul 16, 2011 20:24
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regulargonzalez posted:Harranhal was 2 years before Robert's Rebellion, which was roughly a year or so before Robb was born, who is 14 at the time of AGOT. That means Ned had to be 18-20ish at *youngest* at the time of the Harranhal tourney -- i.e., fully grown adult. I've never read him being described as small (unless it was by comparison to Gregor or something). How are you figuring him to be small? Benjen
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Jul 17, 2011 09:57
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Show news: Now they just need to confirm that we are getting The Bear and Maiden Fair and the show will be perfect
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Jul 17, 2011 13:23
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SelfOM posted:The whole Jon death is cheap. Makes no sense for Bowen et. al to kill him then, and the rationale for them doing it is stupid. Winning over the wildings makes sense, preventing the creation of more zombies makes sense, killing your sworn brother surrounded by people who will likely seek vengeance is not rational. Why couldn't they wait until he leaves with the wildings, and hopes he dies? The Boltons and King's Landing wouldn't look kindly on the Night's Watch if the Lord Commander killed Ramsay. e; They were probably planning it since before he announced that though, so who knows. Kainser fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 16:37
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I'm eager to see what will happen to Aegon to make him less of a perfect prince e; Were there any hints in the books before Dance that Aegon might have survived? The only thing I remember is GRRM basically going "WELL, I CAN'T CONFIRM OR DENY THAT" on a con or something when someone asked him if Rhaegar's kids really were dead. Kainser fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 16:48
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Diving Buttress posted:Varys's little speech about "Aegon knows kingship is his duty, while Tommen believes it's his right" got me thinking. Does Daenerys believe it's her right or her duty to sit on the Iron Throne? Maybe she's not supposed to retake Westeros at all, and she'll resurrect Valyrian civilization or something. e; People would probably hate him while he ruled, but Stannis would make an excellent king (until he's killed by some powerful noble he scorned that is)
Kainser fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 18:19
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Hemp Knight posted:Actually, given that Stannis is an utter dick, I wonder how he gets the most loyal people in the realm. Cressen drank poison trying to save Stannis from Melisandre, and then there's Davos.
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Jul 17, 2011 18:28
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Maybe Aegon is Eddard's and Ashara's bastard 
Kainser fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 18:31
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Brannock posted:Something about Davos's character has always rubbed me kind of weird. How does a smuggler become this principled, and principled enough to just accept Stannis chopping off his fingers and love him for it? It wasn't just an empty knighthood like what Bronn was rewarded with. e; in addition to becoming Stannis' most trusted advisor and having one of his sons become Stannis' squire. Davos didn't lack for rewards. Kainser fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 18:41
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I really want the show to get to this book so I can see Alfie Allen doing the Theon chapters
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Jul 18, 2011 12:19
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NihilCredo posted:On Theon: I'm currently on the theory that Ramsay severed or otherwise maimed his penis, but left him his balls. This explains a little better why he said he still wanted to gently caress the spearwife (though it doesn't quite explain the "yet dared not" part), plus it would just be that extra topping of cruelty that the Bastard could like.  ) while leaving the balls seems like something Ramsay would do.I always thought that the 'To go west you must go east, and to reach the light you must pass beneath the Shadow' meant that Dany would go to Asshai and then travel east from there, reaching Westeros from the west by circumventing the globe. Then she can torch Casterly Rock or whatever. Kainser fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jul 18, 2011 |
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Jul 18, 2011 13:51
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The banker will lend Stannis so much gold that he can hire tons of mercenaries and win the war 
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Jul 18, 2011 15:28
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I think it's supposed to be "Petyr realizes that he will have no chance at getting Sansa if there isn't a war"->"Petyr tells Joffrey that sending Ned to the wall would be cowardly as hell and people would laugh at his womanly heart or whatever so that there will be a war". But that quote doesn't seem imply that so I dunno.
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Jul 18, 2011 18:40
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You know what would have been great? A single Petyr chapter after the red wedding where we get to see him reacting to Catelyn being murdered  e; Typing that made me realize that Littlefinger probably hates the Frey's. That should be fun, what with him being the liege lord of the riverlands.
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Jul 18, 2011 18:48
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Habibi posted:Dude, everyone hates the Freys. The Freys are like the OPEC of Westeros. Everyone gets along with them when necessary, but I don't think a single house would bat an eyelash if the opportunity to wipe them out presented itself. This includes the Starks, the Tullys, the Lannisters, the Boltons, the Baelishes, the Arryns, etc... And since the Red Wedding they're hated even more. vvv: I think you are greatly overestimating the Umbers and the Greatjon. Kainser fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jul 18, 2011 |
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Jul 18, 2011 19:20
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hypocrite lecteur posted:edit: There's a fair amount of talk throughout the books about the Umbers being a fairly strong force in the north. The Freys made an explicit point of making sure that the Greatjon was captured during the Red Wedding to ensure their loyalty, from which it seems a fair inference that the Freys are cautious or afraid of the Umbers. Also, if Jon got his way / Stannis listens to him, they'll be given Winterfell if it's retaken Midnight- posted:Has anyone got a link to that really detailed map of Westeros?  4000x12000 pixels original e; There is also a really detailed 'realistic' one somewhere. e; I believe that Ramsay has Mance as his captive and that Loras' disfigurement is genuine. Kainser fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jul 18, 2011 |
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Jul 18, 2011 20:27
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BeigeJacket posted:Who will be the head of House Lannister now that Kevan is dead? Ser Kevan was never a lord of anything. Even though he totally should have been. gently caress Varys Kainser fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jul 18, 2011 |
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Jul 18, 2011 22:35
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silly posted:My favorite stupid Dany part was when the Yunkai had Meereen blocked by sea and her advisors were like "you know those ships are all just wood and hemp and pitch and you got these dudes that breathe fire right?" and she refused to hear any of it. That's not to say that all Dany's decisions regarding her dragons were good. She should certainly not have put them in a pit for one. vvv: Gerion was the youngest brother, would still be behind Cersei and Kevan's remaining sons. It would also be really cheap to bring even more people back from the presumed dead in my opinion, but oh well. Kainser fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jul 18, 2011 |
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Jul 18, 2011 22:59
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lapse posted:It's been pretty obvious that something funny was going to happen, ever since Jon was announced as the 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Make Ser Alliser Torne or someone number 1000 please. Anyone but loving Jon Snow who already has way to many *I am special and awesome*-things going on for him. e; I always thought that it was a nice subversion that he ended up being number 998 instead of 1000. Kainser fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 00:19
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Ghost Hat posted:Also, those two corpses still locked up in the ice cage are going to bite somebody in the rear end later on. Then people starts dying 
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Jul 19, 2011 00:40
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Habibi posted:There HAS to be something up with Patchface, there just HAS to be. I don't know if it's the lines Martin gave him, or the way he's been written, or the reaction to him from several characters / Melisandre, but there's going to be some weird poo poo going on with him. I have no idea what it's going to be or how or when or why, but SOMETHING will happen.
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Jul 19, 2011 02:00
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I always thought that Rickon and Osha were hanging out in the mountains of the moon, what with the reference to Shaggydog eating goats. If they're in Skagos there's at least a decent chance that we get to see  Woolly Rhinos which would be amazing.e; I'm disappointed that we haven't seen one of the raptors that Syrio mentioned seeing. vvv: Yeah, Skagos is nominally sworn to Winterfell. They have noble houses (after a fashion) and everything. Kainser fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 13:21
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hampig posted:A nice catch from someone on the on the westeros forums: e; Then again, the only thing I remember from the Melisandre chapter is that Devan is in love with her  vvv: Melisandre changing her looks does make sense. She's always described as incredibly beautiful and perfect. Kainser fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 13:54
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