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Also just finished the book. Supporting the common view here: Dany's chapters sucked. Didn't care for most of the people in Meereen. The plot moved too slowly there. And yes, she seems to be going insane. Theon and Selmy were awesome. So Selmy fled King's Landing after being dismissed and then came back. How badass. Loved the revelation of Lord Manderly. Jon's chapters were ok. I liked Victarion. Somehow I have a weak for the ironborn. Sure they have lords, but they respect skill in battle just as much, if not more. It will be interesting to see how he is going to use the horn. Theon's chapters were awesome. The chapter names were done really good. I wish there was more Bran. More visions and cryptic prophecies for us to chew on. I think GRRM learned his lesson and made the current visions happen a couple of chapters later. Didn't notice Theon had his private parts cut off. Didn't notice Lemore = Ashara Dayne Did notice Abel = Mance but not immediately. Did figure out Rickon is on Skagos. Also, everything Mace Tyrell has ever said, was immediately followed by an iceburn thought from the POV. "Robb Stark is only a boy". - "He has won more battles at age 16 than you in your entire life." "Let him take Storm's End, I will take it back." - "You sieged it 3 times and failed 3 times." About secret Targs: Rhaegar predicted Aegon would be TPTWP. But the dragon has 3 heads. I always thought that Dany, Jon and Tyrion were going to be the dragonriders, but now we have Aegon back. As someone said before. He is too perfect to not die or have something horrible happen to him. Crackpot ideas: -Melisandre resurrects Jon, and realizes he is AA, renounces Stannis. More civil war in the north. -Wildlings plunder the Night's Watch armory. One of them toots the horn that was found at the Fist of the First Men. Wall come crashing down, especially because the horn was blown south of the Wall. -Dorne and the Golden Company rally together against Highgarden and the Lannisters. The Vale has the only army left worth something.
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Jul 15, 2011 13:12
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Christ Pseudoscientist posted:I missed the Rickon is on Skagos theory. Anyone care to elaborate? When Wex points the dagger to the map where Rickon is, Davon thinks something like that he would rather go back to the dungeon, because at least there they didn't eat human flesh. Skagos is one of the few places we know that cannibals live, at least it is rumored so. It also makes for a perfect hiding place: on the of the most isolated parts of the continent, while still being technically south of the Wall. Also, Osha and the wild Rickon with Shaggydog would fit right in, I think.
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Jul 15, 2011 15:45
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It seems like a mix of chess and stratego. -limited number of pieces (dragons (multiple types?), elephants, crossbow men, light and heavy cavalry, mountains, ...) -the pieces have different range, value and "special moves". Dragons are probably similar to queens in chess. Also mountains seem to be immovable. -you can set up the board hidden from the opponent at the beginning of the game. Doesn't seem that hard to come up with some rules for that.
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Jul 15, 2011 17:21
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Slackarius posted:Prince Burnvictim One of the bigger disappointments for me. I was expecting a young Red Viper. The dark scheming mysterious southern lord. Full of lust, and not afraid to use some poison. Now it was just a sad story of a kid in way over his head, trying to do the impossible task his father gave him, for which he was completely unprepared.
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Jul 15, 2011 19:18
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He needs an editor (or even a proof-reader) who actually does his job.
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Jul 16, 2011 09:07
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Slackarius posted:If he is still alive, I can totally see Stannis backing down and supporting Aegon or Dany. He never wanted the throne, only believed that it was his duty to claim it since his since his brother had no true-born heirs. That is the Law of Succession, and Stannis is nothing if not rigidly lawful. Either Dany or Aegon have a far more legitimate claim to the Iron Throne than he does and I don't think it'd be within character for him to fight them for it (basing this off of the conversation he had with Davos at some point about how torn he was at Robert's Rebellion.) I think he might even self-exile himself to the Wall in that case as well. I hear they could use some new leadership up there. No, everybody in the Seven Kingdoms bend their knee to Robert. The throne now belongs to House Baratheon. If the Targs want it back, they have to take it back by force, or Stannis has to give it up, and the rest has to bend the knee to the Targs.
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Jul 16, 2011 18:05
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Jaqen kills Pate with a poisoned coin. No idea how he kills the other guys in Harrenhall. "A coin of ours" seems more a euphemism for a poisoned one, than that all coins of the Faceless Men are poisoned.
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Jul 17, 2011 11:59
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Jon probably slipped into Ghost at the moment of death, like Varamyr explained in the prologue. That's what skinchangers do when they die inside their natural body. However, their presence slowly dies away inside the animal. And Varamyr recognized Jon as a powerful skinchanger/warg, but no real training. Then Melisandre might revive Jon's old body. Jon can then slip back in, so we get a revival, without the memory loss that Beric Dondarion had. His body still might some holes/scars on it though.
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Jul 17, 2011 17:30
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BeigeJacket posted:Sure I got all that, but I can't see why him riding into Stannis lines (other than as a Theon delivery device) is in any way important enough to end the whole (first person) Winterfell/Stannis section of the book. It's indeed the other Umber who is just banging the drums outside Winterfell. The only important part the banker has is if he is aware that Arnolf Karstark is on Bolton's side, and thus can warn Stannis. But if forgot if the banker left before Alys Karstark arrived at Castle Black.
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Jul 18, 2011 15:26
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Sexpansion posted:I am a huge Martin fanboy and I pretty much agree with even the most ridiculous praise, but I think it's silly not to recognize that if there weren't a TV show, the book wouldn't be getting all these rave reviews. It's the increased cultural awareness that's driving this, not the quality of the books. The story and depth of the world in the books are pretty much unique in the fantasy genre. It also has a low enough actual fantasy content (no Elves and wizard casting fireballs) that it appeals to a lot of people not normally interested in the fantasy genre. The writing itself indeed leaves much to be desired.
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Jul 18, 2011 17:39
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kazil posted:No no no no no no. Yes he was, but it is not unreasonable to assume Littlefinger whispered in Joff's ear that real kings don't give mercy to traitors. Which would mean his love interest was suddenly a widow, and the realm would plunge into chaos. Smiling Jack posted:Most other people hat the Freys because the Freys betrayed, killed or imprisoned their family members. And pissed all over the sacred rights of guests. The "how" is just as important in this case as the "what".
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Jul 18, 2011 19:40
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Habibi posted:There HAS to be something up with Patchface, there just HAS to be. I don't know if it's the lines Martin gave him, or the way he's been written, or the reaction to him from several characters / Melisandre, but there's going to be some weird poo poo going on with him. I have no idea what it's going to be or how or when or why, but SOMETHING will happen. It is interesting to note that he was the sole survivor of the storm that brought Lord Steffon Baratheon (Robert's, Stannis' and Renly's father back from one of the free cities. They send message that they had found a jester that would even make Stannis smile). The ship sunk and everybody died except Patchface, which has been making these weird jests/prophecies/visions since then. meristem posted:... meanwhile, I'm really curious what Littlefinger intends to do in the current situation. The story has really moved away from him, hasn't it? Is he even still a player? Yes, I think he is. If his plan works out (marry Sansa to Harry the Heir, have Sansa inherrit Winterfell), he will be the defacto power behind the throne of the Vale, the North, and a big part of the riverlands via Harrenhall. If now the Golden Company + Dorne fight Highgarden + Lannister, and it comes to a pyrrhic victory for one them, he will have the single-most power army on the continent. Paxton Redwyne and the Ironborn can do something similar. Here is a 3-part essay on Littlefinger. I think it is one of the weaker from Tower of the Hand, but still a decent read. http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2011/03/29-mockingbird-part-1-as-high-as/index.html OperaMouse fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 09:23
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Untimely Brigand posted:One thing that stood out to me after seeing this was how Ramsay's handwriting is shown as "huge, spiky hand," where there's no mention of that in Jon's. I know for certain it's in the Wayward Bride chapter. I'm trying to remember the other spots I've seen it, but I can't recall. Maybe the Davos chapter when he meets with Manderly? One other things about the letters that they noted on Westeros is that the Umber currently inside Winterfell actually attended the Citadel for a while, but didn't left with a chain. There is no way that he cannot read and write. So why does he sign with drawing a giant? Is he a "false" Umber (a distant relative or loyal servant from somewhere to protect the real one), or is he signing with a false signature to protect his vows? In other words, another northern lord/house loyal to the Starks, that plays along with the Boltons and Freys until it's time for revenge.
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Jul 19, 2011 09:35
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Boy Wunder posted:Just finished reading it today. After the discussion on Varys' whereabouts in the last thread, I was pretty No idea what happens to Bran. The fact that he is cripple, and Hodor is a simpleton might redeem him a bit. Davos is probably sent to Skagos, the cannibal island off the east coast of Westeros, roughly at the same latitude as the Wall. Here is a list with lost of small things that might not have been immediately obvious to you. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53780-adwd-spoilers-all-of-the-little-things/
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Jul 19, 2011 10:57
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when it turned out he stayed put in King's Landing, just like I predicted. Really surprised he acted so directly, though, and against the type of person he seems to admire.
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Tony Danza Claus posted:Also, Dany's on her queenly period, and the Sun rose in the West and fell in the East (Martell), so what's the "mountains blowing in the wind like leaves" part of the 800th Dany prophecy? Some guys have suggested the dragons tearing the pyramids of Meereen apart.
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Jul 19, 2011 16:55
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TomWaitsForNoMan posted:What about the seas going dry? Dany notes that the Dothraki sea is dry.
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Jul 19, 2011 17:20
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I don't like Gregor being part of Dany's prophecy as the mountain because he is so far away. News would take months to reach her. All the other parts so far (wombs quickens, sun setting in the east, dry sea) have been very close to her, although she didn't see Quentyn die.
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Jul 19, 2011 18:54
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No Pants posted:Does that mean Mirri Maz Duur found a way to make Dany screw herself over yet another time? At this point, I just don't care at all about Dany anymore. I would be content if Jon is raised in some manner, becomes AA, kills the Others with a dragonglass-equiped army, and Aegon takes the throne after the Baratheon line goes extinct. Dany can rot with her dragons till eternity in Asshai, Valaria, or enjoy the Summer Isles for all I care.
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Jul 19, 2011 18:58
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EC posted:Is there a collection of all the non-ASOIAF books? I'd like to read the Dunk and Egg stuff, but unless I'm searching the wrong poo poo I can't even find real copies, much less digital copies. There is no collection at this point. I only got my hands on the graphic novel of the first part. I've content myself with reading the summaries.
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Jul 20, 2011 14:24
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Neurosis posted:The 'Words are Wind' thing isn't new; I noticed it cropped up a couple of times in The Mystery Knight. It also stuck out like a sore thumb to me in the previous novels because I just find it a really irritating and fairly meaningless aphorism. Especially because so much emphasis is put in Westeros on oaths and loyalty.
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Jul 22, 2011 09:52
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Actually, the oath of the Night's Watch is to take no wife and sire no children. Technically it doesn't say anything about having sex, as long as you don't make her pregnant.
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Jul 27, 2011 19:26
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JT Jag posted:Perhaps Brienne got killed and then Zombie Cat Zombie Life Transferred to her? Jaime did mention she looked "ten years older" or something. Maybe it was a glimmer from Thoros of Myr. In between those and Faceless Men, we can never be sure anymore if a character is really a character, unless they are in their POV. But at least Faceless Men only seem to be able to take the faces of death people. At least the "Ned got switched for a FM and survived" theory is down the drain with that one.
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Jul 31, 2011 21:46
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Doibhilin posted:hen Wun-Wun will wander off to find his giant twin sister and they will gently caress while eating delicious eel pies. I thought there were no more female giants.
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Aug 1, 2011 09:02
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The first Dunk & Egg graphic novel was great. Didn't see the 2nd one. Why can't they get the same artists for Game of Thrones?
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Aug 4, 2011 15:54
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Hedrigall posted:What the loving gently caress, how did I miss so many details? Here is a decent list. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53780-adwd-spoilers-all-of-the-little-things/
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Aug 5, 2011 07:34
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Neurosis posted:Omnipotent? He's not even omniscient (owing to a lack of weirwoods with faces), and his power to actually effect actions is dubious. He indeed hardly has any powers to actually do anything. In fact, the only thing he has done is summon Bran to him via his dreams. I think he is still fairly omniscient, and I think he does it via Raventree. Remember, Bloodraven was a bastard from a Blackwood: the residents of Raventree. I think the ravens of Raventree everyday go out "scouting" and return in the evening to tell the news to the (dead) weirwood and thus to Bloodraven. The Jaime chapter in ADWD has a great connection with the Dunk & Egg stories.
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Aug 7, 2011 12:45
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Guy A. Person posted:I think with all of the aforementioned loyalty displayed in the last book, we are being set up for the Starks coming back stronger in the long run (well not stronger than they started, but relatively stronger than some of the other families). A time of wolves, I guess
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Aug 16, 2011 17:25
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3Romeo posted:You know, the biggest fault with Feast and Dance (more Feast) is that they're one big setup book. This was somewhat of the problem with Clash, except it also stood alone as its own story (having things that books four and five did not, such as rising action, climax, complication, and resolution). The events of Clash paid off in A Storm of Swords--so loving well, in fact, that it bought enough good will for us to sit through another 1500 pages of getting pieces in all their places. We bitch about the books a ton but we did read them, after all. I feel very similar. Clash was still a page turner for me, especially the Tyrion chapters. When people were moving from one location to the other, they actually did stuff. And they also came past locations that we had seen before and other major characters just had passed. Winds has everything needed to make it next to non-stop action: the south in a full scale war/invasion, Mereen under siege, with Dany and her dragons and the Dothraki to the rescue, Tyrion and Victarion as wild cards on the outside, the vanguard of the Others could arrive at the Wall, Stannis versus Bolton, Littlefinger/Sansa putting the Vale into action. As has been mentioned before, the books will have a bittersweet ending. Major characters will probably die, and I don't expect them to do so in a glorious sacrifice to save the world.
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Aug 17, 2011 17:01
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If anything, I would have expected there to be more gay characters, especially at isolated man-only places like the Wall. Sure they can go visit Mole's Town, but I can imagine plenty of guys crawling together under a bearskin at night when ranging.
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Aug 22, 2011 08:24
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Quantify! posted:It's all a fake argument designed to troll people so who cares. To me it seemed very reasonable that Jon Connington had gay feelings for Rhaegar. But there are no hints whatsoever of those being returned. E.g. Connington is gay, Rhaegar is not.
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Aug 22, 2011 16:11
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Quantify! posted:The Faceless Men are either for/against the dragons returning. Theory: with Pycelle dead, the Citadel has to elect (or however it works) a new GrandMaester. Guess whose identity Pate/Jaqen will take next... Rosscifer posted:GRRM's diatribes on the Lost and BSG endings gave me some hope. They indicate to me that he understands how not to end a sprawling series. He also already knows already how it is going to end. The problem now is how to write all the characters to that ending. I have quite some confidence in it being a good ending, especially the bittersweet part of it he hinted at. OperaMouse fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Aug 27, 2011 |
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Aug 27, 2011 10:10
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Junkenstein posted:That's something I've been wondering about. The red priests and their religion are primarily based in the east, but one of their main goals is to defeat the others, who seem to be a Westeros problem. Well, technically they fight against that other god, and the Others merely seem to be agents of that god.
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Aug 27, 2011 17:37
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Martin Van Buren posted:Actually, Jon's just a red herring and is dead for good. Brienne, on the other hand, who has blue eyes and a red sword, kills Jaime and/or Catelyn, the only two people to show her any kindness, and, boom, fulfills the Azor Ahai prophecy. You're welcome. Well, she was born on an island, so that takes care of the "borne amongst salt". The castle of House Tarth is Evenfall Hall, which is "when the darkness rises". There are some stars on the heraldry of House Tarth, but none of them red. And then we still need to find the smoke. Another possible candidate.
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Aug 30, 2011 20:48
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Martin Van Buren posted:I was actually just makin' japes, I don't think Brienne is Azor Ahai. But I henceforth take all credit for this theory if it proves to have any merit. The stone dragon has puzzled me a lot. I still have no idea what it is/can be and ADWD has only complicated stuff. Were it the petrified eggs? The stone dragon in Dragonstone that Mellisandre wanted to wake with blood magic? The theory about the dragon under Winterfell that got released in the sack, and the winged snake in the sky that Summer saw? Or is there now a connection with the greyscale and Aegon? Blackfyre was the name of one of the ancestral swords of House Targaryen. Aegon IV had a lot of bastard children, and he legitimized them all on his death bed. Deamon Blackfyre was one of them, and rebelled against Daeron II, son of Aegon IV. His half-brother Aegor Rivers, aka Bittersteel joined him, while his other half-brother Bryndin Rivers, aka Bloodraven, sided with the loyalist. On the battle of the Redgrass field, Bloodraven killed Daemon Blackfyre with arrows (and has been accused of being a kinslayer because of this). Bittersteel, rallied the troops, killed a large part of Bloodraven's archers, and took out one eye of Bloodraven. He also retrieved the sword Blackfyre from the now dead Daemon. As loyalist troops arrived, he withdrew and eventually fled across the narrow sea. There he founded the mercenary company called the Golden Company. Many outcast lords of Westeros joined them. With now all of Aegon IV's bastards dead (except Bloodraven, but he is a special case), there isn't much Targ in the company anymore. The last of them died in the War of the Ninepenny Kings when they tried to cross across the Step Stones. However, there are theories that the current Aegon pretender is actually a (grand)son of one of the bastards, instead of a son of Rhaegar. This could imply that Vaerys and Illyrio's loyalties are not with Dany, but rather with the bastard tree of the Targ dynasty.
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Aug 31, 2011 08:46
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Ross posted:Never really thought about this actually but I would guess about 2 years as well. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/31411-global-timeline/
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Sep 4, 2011 14:52
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Lid posted:I think its Moqorro who has a vision of the other/enemy as a creature with one eye and many tentacles reaching everywhere. While given it being a Victarion chapter it would think Euron it is as applicable to Bloodraven with the tentacles being the weirwoods. Not to mention Bran has commited crimes against nature including cannibalism and controlling Hodor which the Sixskins peologue makes clear is an abomination. The only one who calls warging into other people an abomination is Varamyr's teacher. On the other hand, almost every single character calls the kinslayer to stand accursed in the eyes of gods (including the old ones) and men alike. Also breaking the sacred guest rights seems to be a particularly nasty sin that many people talk about.
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Sep 6, 2011 20:25
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Unkempt posted:Re prophecies: that one that Cersei had when she was a kid has been amazingly accurate so far, what with numbers of children and such. This does imply that Tommen's going to be dead quite soon. Yes, the only real question is who will choke the life out of her? Jaime or Tyrion?
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Sep 13, 2011 09:57
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insider posted:Wow how the hell did I miss that. It's an interesting plot line, because: a.) In the prologue, Varamyr's teacher is really against warging into cats. b.) Arya "cheated" on the blindness test.
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Sep 28, 2011 08:30
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Dietrich posted:Why do fantasy novels contain so much rape? It's what the authors dream about.
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Oct 27, 2011 15:46
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Wolfsheim posted:Hey dudes, I just received ADWD as a birthday gift from my roommate (we are reading it simultaneously!) and I'm about halfway through and had to stop and ask: seriously, what the poo poo is going on with the Theon chapters? Is there any kind of point, or does it just get progressively more and more like some sort of Saw movie where he has increasingly painful or gross things happening to him for no reason other than "dark gritty fantasy"? The Theon chapters are the best. Pay attention to the chapter names, by the way.
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Oct 29, 2011 18:43
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