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- To counterbalance so many people feeling scandalised by Ramsay's bedroom antics and Dany's teenage hormones, I wish to publicly thank Gurm for refraining from giving us a steamy double-dwarf sex scene. Wait, he's saving that for TWoW. gently caress. Well, at least it's one thing guaranteeing he will get it done. - Lemore sounds really obviously like Ashara Dayne, except for one detail: wouldn't Tyrion be able to immediately put two and two together upon seeing a Westerosi woman with violet eyes? It's either a Targ or a Dayne. I can't see how this can be anything other than either a plot hole or Gurm setting up a red herring only to reveal her as Lady Mentionedonce of House Inpassing. ^^^^^ "Fair" can easily refer to complexion, especially in pre-modern times where it was a sign of high status. - I can't see Theon as being now a physical eunuch. It's really not GRRM's style to gliss over such matters over what, seven POV chapters? Also there is stuff like this: quote:He wanted to hit her, to smash that mocking smile off her face. He wanted to kiss her, to gently caress her right there on the table and make her cry his name. But he knew he dare not touch her, in anger or in lust. which does not strictly imply he still has a cock, but I can't see those exact words being used if he did not. - Speculation now: which of Bran's weirwood visions were meaningful? First was obviously Lyanna, but wasn't she the youngest of the Stark siblings? The pregnant woman praying for vengeance reminds me of some story, but I can't remember which.
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# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 07:37 |
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# ¿ Mar 29, 2024 00:28 |
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Aurubin posted:I still really don't get the stupid prejudices that the Night's Watch holds towards the wildlings. I think if I was an Isrealite facing a Palestinian and we both saw a zombie, we'd kill the zombie first and then kill each other. Mostly I can't figure out Bowen Marsh's plan. You want to mutiny because you think it's your mission to fight off the wildlings, fine. But if so, do it before the wildlings cross the wall, for gently caress's sake. Kill/imprison Jon a few days earlier, you can lock the gates and watch as Tormund gets eaten by wights. But what the gently caress do you think is going to happen now? You don't have the strength to massacre the wildlings, and hostages are only good to make their relatives obey, not to make them accept a genocide. tirinal posted:God, once you frame it like that there's nothing you can do. It just clings to you. Like some dirty, soiled rag on your face you can't claw off. One idea I've been considering is to make a few posts spoiling new readers with the most outrageous stuff that sounds exactly like the "HODOR IS KING IN THE NORTH" joke spoilers; probably throwing in a couple of wrong ones to keep people guessing. Here's what I had come up with: BRAN RAPES HODOR SANSA QUITS JOFFREY AND MARRIES TYRION JON GROWS A SECOND PENIS (or whatever) RENLY DIES OF A MAGICAL VAGINA TYWIN POOPS HIMSELF TO DEATH
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# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 13:59 |
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^^^^ I used to loathe Melisandre, after her POV chapter I think she's utterly awesome. A little plot dumb ("I ask for Azor Ahai and I get Jon Snow", geez, WHAT COULD IT POSSIBLY MEAN?), but ten times more interesting than before. I hope Moqorro gets a POV chapter too. Pity she didn't explain anything about Lightbringer though. Charlie Mopps posted:Didnt they do it because Jon wanted to go to Winterfell, which would basically make him a traitor for messing in the affairs of the kingdoms and abandoning the Night's Watch, and thus punishable by death? Or maybe it was all a set up by Melisanre so Jon could become Azor Ahai Reborn. Yeah, that's possible. Or maybe it's a little of column A and a little of column B; "for the Watch" is quite ambiguous. Still, did they stop to think for a moment of what would happen now? Jon doesn't seem to be terribly bright either. The only hostage Ramsay claims to have is Mance Rayder, and the wildlings would have happily gone to rescue him without a single Night's Watch with them - and if Jon went and saved their folk at Hardhome in the meanwhile, they would probably still be grateful to him. Speaking of which, how come nobody in the Shieldhall brought up the fact that they saw Mance Rayder burn? NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jul 13, 2011 |
# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 16:19 |
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"If I look back, I am lost" is the new "You know nothing, Jon Snow" in that I'm sick of hearing it twice a page. Except that Jon's mantra exhorts him to think, observe, and be careful with judgment, while Dany's mantra is basically "LA LA LA THINKING IS BAD LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".
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# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 16:36 |
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The show alreay gave a huge hint that Dany would eventually become fertile again when they left most of MMD's speech intact but omitted the "when your womb quickens" part. Speaking of retcons: quote:[In Drogo's pyre] The fire burned away my hair, but elsewise it did not touch me. It had been the same in Daznak’s Pit. So George, what's all that hubbubg about "no, Targs aren't fireproof, what happened in Drogo's pyre was a ONE-TIME THING"? NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jul 13, 2011 |
# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 17:47 |
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Aurubin posted:Out of curiosity, was there ever a culture that fought primarily with mercenaries and slaves? That seems a recipe for disaster on the battlefield. In the world of ASOIAF, I can't see how slave soldiers could be any worse than peasant levies.
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# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 18:03 |
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^^^^ It is. poo poo is glorious. Soviet posted:Right after this would have been the perfect time to kill dany off. The best moment to kill her would have been when Drogon shows up in the pit. I hoped she was about to get a mortal lesson of the "if you abandon Westeros to marry some random slaver, the dragons will also abandon you" kind. Plus a righteous Red Wedding moment for all the Dany fans. Then the plot would become about which Westerosi could manage to tame the motherless dragons and bring them to the Seven Kingdom, and between Aegon's blood, Victarion's horn and Tyrion's knowledge there would have been plenty of options. Edit: Lord Manderly might officially be the most awesome Northerner alive: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53305-adwd-spoilers-menu-for-a-feast/ http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rat_Cook NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jul 13, 2011 |
# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 21:07 |
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Fly Molo posted:A close friend just posted about receiving the book on facebook, so I posted every spoiler I know. Congratulations. Do you want a cookie for that?
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# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 21:49 |
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Insurrectionist posted:Wyman Manderly was the best character in the book, though Alys Karstark was pretty close going by how many pages they appeared in (Sup, just a 16 year old girl fleeing hundreds of miles on my own, please murder my uncle if he shows btw. Now where's this Magnar of Thenn guy, he's got a lot of men and it looks like he'll piss his pants around me, wanna marry that dude). I can't quite figure out why Alys got married by Rh'llor rites. The old gods have no priests and so shouldn't need one to hold a marriage, and abandoning them could only annoy both her husband and the men of Karhold. e: Nevermind, I forgot the first group of wildlings was force-converted to Rh'llor. I thought it was a sham, but apparently at least the Thenns kept their word. NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Jul 14, 2011 |
# ¿ Jul 14, 2011 09:38 |
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Did anyone get the feeling that Jon might have been batting for the other team, and pining over lost/unrequited love more than friendship? Jon's reminiscences of Rhaegar sounded like they came from a teenage romance novel, all that waxing poetic about his beautiful hair and eyes, and when Haldon suggested that he marry I felt that his reaction didn't come only from the greyscale (not to mention that he apparently never married before, despite the fact that he couldn't have been that young when he went into exile).
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# ¿ Jul 14, 2011 11:50 |
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Ashara Dayne's bastard could just as likely have been fathered by Brandon as by Ned Stark. Also, can the people who hated ADwD Tyrion expand on it a little? I did get sick of his moping and drinking early on, but excluding his stay with Illyrio and the stop at the brothel I found him to be no less entertaining than before. Same wit, except now he got to spar it with people completely unlike those that surrounded him in Westeros.
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# ¿ Jul 14, 2011 17:34 |
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bengraven posted:I could seriously do with a prequel series taking place just on the Wall. A small taste of it: rumour is that Dunk's next adventure will be set in the North. Oh, and that he's gonna gently caress Old Nan.
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# ¿ Jul 14, 2011 19:50 |
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:BLeh bleh bleh, only reason GRRM ever writes a likeable character is to make his readers wince when he kills them off Au contraire, after ADWD having what, six fake deaths*? I've read a few fans writing with a completely straight face: "GRRM needs to stop pulling his punches and start killing characters for real, man". * (Aegon, Jon Connington, Moqorro, Ashara Dayne, Mance Rayder, Jon Snow, and I'm probably forgetting a few)
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# ¿ Jul 15, 2011 00:26 |
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Decius posted:If any of the Lannisters turns out to be a secret Targ I would quit the series [...] With Jon Snow we are up to five surviving Targs Dany Aegon Jon Snow ??? Random thought: every time I read the word "spearwife" I have to remind myself that it's not Westerosi slang for a pre-op transsexual. Right, thank you. It's like the seventh King of Rome. VVVVV NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 15, 2011 |
# ¿ Jul 15, 2011 14:11 |
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To be fair, before ADWD I was one of those who loathed Dany because GRRM was making her into such a gigantic Mary Sue who never screwed up and didn't just have plot armour, but rode around in a plot T-72 battle tank. So you'd think my hatred would have been dialed up to 11 by now, which it has, and yet... ... and yet, the way she is shaping up to be a terrible queen and a clueless politician might actually be one of the better ways for GRRM to fix that problem, without outright killing her and saying "whoops, sorry guys, the prophecy screwed up". She's still going to be Azor Ahai reborn and the PTWP and all that and she's going to bring magic back to the world ahd save the Seven Kingdoms from the others, yes... but she's also going to be an utter failure at ruling a pacified Westeros.
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# ¿ Jul 15, 2011 21:51 |
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WEEEEEE I was right I was right on the money! http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53609-adwd-spoilers-the-lost-lord/ quote:at Union Square, someone tried to ask George if Jon Connington was intended to be gay. And George's response was: "I can't answer that [note: due to it having been 'no spoilers' at the Q&A], but if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then you're correct." (Sorry, I am more satisfied than is normal because usually I'm totally clueless while reading books.)
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# ¿ Jul 15, 2011 23:59 |
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Plucky Brit posted:Something I haven't seen mentioned- Roose Bolton should die at some point because he was lord of Harrenhall; everyone else who was lord has died very grisly deaths. It's not a stretch to think he was betrayed and killed during the battle. Rarity posted:And serjeant. That one really bugged me.
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# ¿ Jul 16, 2011 11:37 |
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We've seen that Aegon is not opposed to using blue dye, and in a year or two he should be able to grow a decent beard. He'll seduce Dany just fine
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# ¿ Jul 16, 2011 16:32 |
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About Arya's assassination: where is it said that the Faceless Men's coins are poisonous? I must have glazed over that.
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# ¿ Jul 17, 2011 11:36 |
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For what it's worth, the following passage made me really like Aegon and think he may indeed have the makings of a good king in him:quote:A solid man, and true, Connington thought as he watched Duck dismount, but not worthy of the Kingsguard. He had tried his best to dissuade the prince from giving Duckfield that cloak, pointing out that the honor might best be held in reserve for warriors of greater renown whose fealty would add luster to their cause, and the younger sons of great lords whose support they would need in the coming struggle, but the boy would not be moved. “Duck will die for me if need be,” he had said, “and that’s all I require in my Kingsguard. The Kingslayer was a warrior of great renown, and the son of a great lord as well.” The biggest strike against the L = A theory is that Tyrion, horny or not, could hardly have failed to notice her violet eyes, which in a Westerosi woman make for a pretty short list of possibilities. VVVVVV NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jul 17, 2011 |
# ¿ Jul 17, 2011 20:06 |
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Arrrthritis posted:I had a similar thought but with the scene where Cersei walks through KL stark naked.
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# ¿ Jul 18, 2011 01:33 |
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^^^^ That seems like it just wouldn't work so well. If you read Dany before Quentyn, you know they will get to Meereen. Jon before Asha and you know that Stannis won't get to Winterfell (at least in this book). Tyrion before Dany and I think you get told most of what happens in Meereen up to Drogon's flight. I'm sure there's more. On Theon: I'm currently on the theory that Ramsay severed or otherwise maimed his penis, but left him his balls. This explains a little better why he said he still wanted to gently caress the spearwife (though it doesn't quite explain the "yet dared not" part), plus it would just be that extra topping of cruelty that the Bastard could like. NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jul 18, 2011 |
# ¿ Jul 18, 2011 13:39 |
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It occurred to me that Quentyn Martell's life story could have been drastically changed if his foster father had let him hang that classic Despair® demotivator poster on his room wall:
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# ¿ Jul 18, 2011 15:11 |
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Calef posted:Correct me if I'm wrong here. Tyrion picks out the redhead whore because he wanted to see some red bush. Then later he berated himself for picking a whore who looked like his wife. I assume he means Tysha. Is this the first clue as to Tysha's appearance? On the other side, the Tysha = Sailor's Wife theory got somewhat boosted now by the fact that her daughter was named "Lanna".
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# ¿ Jul 19, 2011 16:05 |
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hhhmmm posted:With all the focus on Arya losing her personality, I'm guessing she will be sent to kill someone previosly close to her. Then creating a struggle between her current and former self blablablablabla Here's a nutty idea (probably too psych-horror for the Gurm): she manages to forget about being Arya while awake, but her connection with Nym remains at night. Somehow she ends up in the Riverlands, and while sleeping and warging into Nymeria she comes across "no-one"'s sleeping corpse and devours herself.
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# ¿ Jul 19, 2011 20:46 |
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tekz posted:Yeah man insurgencies always die away immediately on imprisoning people. People rightly hate the Dany chapters for being boring as hell, but marrying that guy to bring peace to the city was one of the few sensible decisions made. It's not that different from westerosi nobles marrying into each others families to forge alliances/peace after conflict. Jon Connington had one of the wiser moments in the series: If all else fails, ask yourself: what would Tywin Lannister do (WWTLD)? The answer, in Dany's case, is probably to change that ridiculous "blood price" to something a little more persuasive. At that point, she's got a ton of discreet opposition, but nobody seems to worry about open revolt. The former slaver lords don't seem to have any bargaining chip beyond the threat of sabotage and collaboration. So, every night there's a Harpy murder, you burn one pyramid to the ground, or hang the head of one of the families, or if you're really squeamish you take something serious like 10% of their wealth instead of a fine.
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# ¿ Jul 20, 2011 13:30 |
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Speaking of hostages, they make a nice counterpoint to what is one of my favourite passages in the book, the clansmen's reaction to Jon's wildling insurance:quote:“Aye, and why not?” Old Flint stomped his cane against the ice. “Wards, we always called them, when Winterfell demanded boys of us, but they were hostages, and none the worse for it.” I like it mostly because of the relationship between the North and House Stark (I'm reminded of Mæster Luwin talking about the Stark ancestors as "hard men for hard times"), but I'm genuinely curious about whether Jon would be able to back his words if it came to it. My money would be on "no".
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# ¿ Jul 20, 2011 23:08 |
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euphronius posted:If you would have told me one month ago that explosive, bloody diarrhea was going to be a motif of the new book I would have called you crazy. And yet here we are. Someone should photoshop that as a dust jacket blurb.
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# ¿ Jul 22, 2011 00:22 |
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I'm going to break a lance in defence of Dany's decision to dismiss Jorah. First, he was useful but no longer irreplaceable: she had plenty of sword arms at that point, and Ser Barristan was going to be a much better advisor on all things Westerosi. Secondly, go and reread his dismissal scene: he behaves with pretty much the opposite of Barristan's sincerity and humility, it would have been hard for Dany to forgive him without looking weak and inciting more treachery (Though, I believe that that is also a good example of why discipline is best served in private - in public your hand is easily forced). And thirdly, he's got a solid curriculum of doing foolish things for love, how could Dany knew that he wouldn't one day make some more? Had he stuck around, I could totally see him attempting to murder both Daario and Hizdahr, which as a reader would certainly have pleased me incomparably, but which is decidedly not what Dany wants.
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# ¿ Jul 22, 2011 19:53 |
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hypocrite lecteur posted:Counter-point; in a series where loyalty is a very rare and precious trait, and in Dany's case, where she's got a superstar thing going on and really can't trust the people around her, she got rid of a guy who saved her from an assassin, saved her dragon's eggs, protected her when Drogo was dying, and was absolutely, unswervingly loyal to her, like she was scraping a bit of poo poo off of her shoe The reason Jorah risked his life for Dany was love (or infatuation), not loyalty. (He sucked at loyalty. Had loyalty been what moved him, he would have stopped writing to Varys way, way before Qarth.) That is not something you want to have to rely on. Best case he grows out of it and goes back to Varys; bad case he kills one or more other suitors out of jealousy; worst case he goes mad with unrequited love and commits murder-suicide.
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# ¿ Jul 22, 2011 21:00 |
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Neurosis posted:I don't think anyone would mind this happening, Stannis least of all. But who is Stannis's real queen?
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# ¿ Jul 23, 2011 16:07 |
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I hated every Arya chapter between KL and her capture by the Hound. But I liked almost everything of Tyrion's ADWD stuff.
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# ¿ Jul 24, 2011 16:50 |
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Had to share:
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# ¿ Jul 24, 2011 20:42 |
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Doibhilin posted:How does he go and add Penny when there are so many open threads that need to be tied up? quote:What does Penny do for the story at all? Do you think there is a single reader of the series out there who actually likes Penny or looks forward to her scenes? After building Tyrion into a hero with the Battle of the Blackwater, GRRM makes him into a pig riding joke. I still thought ADWD was pretty good, but GRRM really needs an editor who is not afraid to tear his poo poo up. Tyrion has been a consistent badass since book 1, and despite him continuously repeating that "I get no respect 'cause I'm a dwarf" we've never really seen that - from AGoT to ASoS he's always wielded power, and has often been disliked by lots of people but never really *despised*. Cersei was perhaps the only person that treated him like the poo poo he said he felt like; arguably Shae too, and she hid it. Now that he's really got nothing but his wits to go with, Penny serves as a (rather blunt, I'll agree) reminder of what dwarfdom entails. I'm not sure she was indispensable to that purpose, but Tyrion definitely needed a non-Jorah companion to talk to, and someone with such a diametrically opposite worldview to his is as good a choice as any.
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# ¿ Jul 25, 2011 11:03 |
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DarkCrawler posted:Yeah, I'm the first to defend his world building and that history was still awesome and interesting, but that one got pretty ridiculous. Not sure why that chapter was in the books at all, it might have served as the opening Jaime chapter in AWOW but seemed like an completely useless addition here. Bittersteel and Bloodraven were the sons of Bracken and Blackwood mothers, respectively. The passage explains quite a bit about why the chips fell that particular way during the Blackfyre Rebellion
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# ¿ Jul 25, 2011 16:46 |
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SmugDogMillionaire posted:The point was to flesh out Bloodraven's history, but it was still unnecessary. I seriously wonder what percent of readers know who the gently caress Bloodraven is besides some guy from history that gets mentioned and what percentage of those connect it with the history lesson from that chapter. I posit that if GRRM were the kind of writer that cuts something because it would fly over the head of X% of his readers, none of us would still give a poo poo about his saga.
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# ¿ Jul 25, 2011 17:36 |
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He said he only used a few slivers of them for the soup. Although, I wonder if mushrooms do not degrade after spending several weeks hidden in a sweaty boot in hot weather. (It also sounded like it would make Tyrion ridiculously uncomfortable and clumsy - dwarves AFAIK are stunted but their feet are pretty much regular sized.)
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# ¿ Jul 25, 2011 19:37 |
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Xander77 posted:Seriously, where is that info mentioned? I got most of the "subtle" stuff about this book, but completely missed that one. No fault of yours, it's neither in the book nor in the short stories, just some magazine Q&A Martin did a while ago. From ADWD you can figure out that some Great Bastards came from there, but not specifically which. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/ Though it might have been in Mystery Knight too, I'm not sure.
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# ¿ Jul 25, 2011 23:28 |
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The Mystery Knight is the best D&E story by a landslide. The Hedge Knight is OK and The Sworn Sword is pretty bad.
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# ¿ Jul 26, 2011 01:55 |
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# ¿ Mar 29, 2024 00:28 |
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Xander77 posted:I really hate moron protagonists (or yeah, "decent guys who just appear slow-witted", sure) so I'm prejudiced against the short stories, but what the hell is the point? (besides filling out the backstory) IIRC, the main idea was to show that Westeros wasn't *always* a Mutter Courage inferno of lawlessness and betrayals, and that under the Targaryens before Aerys II it was a relatively peaceful and orderly place (though still with all the unfairness and poverty of the feudal Middle Ages). To that purpose it works admirably. I just wish GRRM hadn't felt compelled to also give them near-Hollywood endings, because they just don't sound convincing.
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# ¿ Jul 26, 2011 02:18 |