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SmugDogMillionaire posted:He also killed Little Walder. The missing time theory is interesting but it was my theory that Big Walder killed Little Walder, probably due to some Ramsay Bolton level bullying. Early in the book, Theon mentions how Little Walder had become Ramsay's best boy and was becoming more and more like him, making sure to mention that Big Walder wasn't. Big Walder then helps Theon with the horses and seems a lot meeker. When the body of Little Walder is discovered, he is under a snow drift and his blood has frozen around him like "pink armor" but Big Walder is still covered in blood. Then when questioned the boy basically pulls one of these "Umm, he was supposed to meet some man who owed him money," awkward pause, "I think it was one of Manderly's men!" We know Theon didn't kill any of the others because the spear wives cop to that but didn't kill the boy. Walder is kind of a dick to Theon at a few points but he is definitely not bad enough for Theon to black out and kill him, especially anymore than any of the "Bastard's Boys". If there were more unexplained deaths that the spear wives denied then I would be more convinced, but unless I am missing some key scene between Little Walder and Theon I like my theory better.
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Aug 8, 2011 17:57
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Azure_Horizon posted:I don't have nearly the same issues with the pacing as other people do. I enjoyed all the slow worldbuilding and lack of plot movement. I couldn't care less about Amazon reviews. I wouldn't mind the pacing and worldbuilding if this were book 2 or 3 and GRRM were 20 years younger. But he has 2 books left so we are either going to get a drastic shift in tone from slow paced worldbuilding to major plot advances every chapter, or we are going to have a rushed and unsatisfying ending (like they largely hand-wave the war or Dany dies before she gets here or something stupid). Or else GRRM is going to say "well maybe 1 or 2 more books guys" when he is in his mid-70s and finished book 7 then we get no resolution.
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Aug 9, 2011 15:09
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ImJasonH posted:So, I think he could conceivably get his act together in two books. Definitely, I am just saying if he does manage to resolve all of that in two books, it will be a major shift in pacing from the past 2. Especially the Dany chapters, which have been slow paced world building since book 2 and will have to shift into full gear starting with her first chapter in the next book. Speaking of which, I know the consensus is that the Dany chapters were awful in this book, but at least they were better than her sitting around some rich guys mansion for the entirety of book 2. I wish she had abandoned Mereen but her motivations make sense, and she is learning the difficulties of ruling and doing SOMETHING. I think Clash is where the Dany story got badly messed up. It should have ended with her gaining the Unsullied, and we should have been halfway through the Mereen story by the end of Storm.
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Aug 9, 2011 15:59
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So where did all the crap about Hodor and the Reeds dying and Howland Reed warging into Arthur Dayne come from? Were people just trolling or was it just poor translation/assumptions from when the book came out overseas?
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Aug 10, 2011 02:10
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Ok so did I completely misinterpret this part or did Arya warg into a cat to watch the Kindly Man attack her with a stick? The whole chapter is about how they take away her sight and she needs to train her other senses (which they don't know include her green dreaming, which also seem to get more powerful at this point). Then when the Kindly Man asks her how she knew it was him she thinks "I saw you" but doesn't say it. Then in like the next paragraph it says something like "she left out the part about the cat following her home and hiding in the rafters", and it is totally out of nowhere because who cares if a cat followed her home?
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Aug 10, 2011 14:20
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batomys posted:I keep seeing this rationalization and it's really silly... as if somehow sexual preferences are passed on genetically from generation to generation. If your parents are into incest and do that poo poo around you (or with you, *gulp*) sure you may pick it up as a learned behavior, but otherwise, no. Great-grandma may have liked to get down with jazz musicians back in her day, but it doesn't mean I'm going to start whacking off to photos of Fats Waller or Thelonius Monk. Plus the whole tragic narrative of the Cersei and Jaime thing is that they are not Targs, no matter how much they wish/try to be. If Jaime was a Targ, he wouldn't have needed to be on the Kinsguard because he would get to be a king and gently caress his sister which is basically all he wants. He also wouldn't have been marginalized by Aerys, so he would get to fight which is the only other thing he wants. And he already figuratively made the decision of "Lannister vs. Targ" when he killed Aerys and has been punished for it ever since. Cersei likewise dreamed of marrying Rhyaegar and ruling as queen. She got to be queen but everything she does is a pale comparison of the actual Targaryens. She has sex with her brother in secret and is ashamed of it, and she seems obsessed with fire during the burning of the tower of the hand but once again in a more of a passive "I want to be a Targ" way. She is also insane like half the Targs but basically she has all of their worst qualities without any of the good ones. Tyrion on the other hand has only ever wanted to be accepted as a true Lannister, so it would make narrative sense for him to secretly be what every other Lannister was striving to be for the entirety of the novels.
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Aug 10, 2011 17:36
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Unzip and Attack posted:The thing is, Sansa isn't smart. Yeah LF has a hard-on for her, and yeah she's jaded because she's had it rough, but LF, Varys, Tywin, etc - all those characters are deeply intelligent and they play the Game well because of it. Sansa is a hollow, brainless, moping, pathetic shell of a person. None of this is her fault (she is a kid after all) but it will be such a disappointment if she becomes this Machiavellian mastermind after a year of watching LF screw people over. She's never shown insight or cleverness - she's always been the fall guy and this supposedly inevitable metamorphosis into Master Player would be the most groan-inducing development of the series. I think both of these might be cases of "unreliable narrators". Or if not unreliable then at least narrators who have their own prejudices and interpretation of the facts. Barristan obviously was in love with Ashara Dayne, so he might have thought that Ned "dishonored" her by sleeping with her. This is most likely not the case of course but right now Ned is the only suspect since we know he danced with her and not much else about her role at the tourney. Barristan may have heard a rumor and drew his own conclusions out of jealousy. Same thing with the Varys thing, which was also a Barristan flashback. Pretty much everyone distrusts Varys, especially Barristan who mentions it several times throughout his story. He might just have blamed Varys because he doesn't trust him. Obviously we would need more information for either of those mysteries. So far we only know that Ashara was at the tournament and that she and Ned shared a dance and maybe more. This is also the first time we have heard about any distrust between Rhaegar and Aerys and it was a throw away sentence, so we would need more information.
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Aug 10, 2011 20:35
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Habibi posted:Yeah, but the problem is that the other possible culprits are also all pretty unlikely - and that includes Ramsay. It could be that Mance has teamed up with Ramsay to some end, even if he just got caught and is playing him. I would guess that the theory was that Mance asked specifically for "Reek" in order to sound like Ramsay, but whotf even knows or cares who Reek is, besides Ramsay and Roose? And how would Jon know or care that Theon and the false bride escaped? If Mance wanted to taunt him he would've claimed he has his sister. But then of course Ramsay wouldn't care about Mance's sister-in-law or son either, if he even knew about them. It is also obvious a lot of the letter is flat out lies anyway, since whoever it is thinks Theon and Jeyne are at the wall when they are with Stannis. Nnd there was the whole Manderly factor, and the mission he sent Davos on, which is probably freeing the captives of the Frey's to free up the Umbers et all to fight back. And the fact that Ramsay signs as the Lord of Winterfell which means Roose is probably dead or indisposed.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:45
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Chainsawdomy posted:There were seven hostages. They gave three of them back alive. They killed one already. Now they have 3. They can always split them in half...
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Aug 11, 2011 21:21
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ineptmule posted:Don't forget that Mance/Abel had been hanging around Winterfell for a while, he probably picked up the whole Reek thing pretty quickly. Yeah that is what I was saying, but my point was how would Jon know or care who Reek was in order for it to convince him it was Ramsay. Unless Mance had reason to suspect someone from Winterfell escaped and made it to the wall. But how ridiculous would it be if someone was like "Yeah, that can't be Ramsay, he doesn't even mention Reek in that letter! Usually he won't shut up about that guy!"
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Aug 12, 2011 14:55
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V. Illych L. posted:Yeah, I get the impression that Starks work great so long as they're actually in charge and sitting with most of the power (or whoever actually has the power doesn't really care what they get up to, I guess). Once they actually have to get realpolitiky, everything goes to poo poo. I think it has more to do with the type of politics being used. Someone earlier in the thread pointed out that the Starks seem to have the most loyalty from their bannermen. There are instanced like the Boltons and the Karstarks but one is super evil and the other at least had a valid reason for the betrayal. Compared to the flip-flopping that the Lannister, Baratheon and even Tully bannerman do over the course of the books the Starks seem to be running a pretty tight ship. You have the Manderly's trying to covertly win back the north for the Starks, and the mountain tribes yelling "we need to save Ned's girl!" None of the Lannister's loyal bannermen are trying to rush in and save Cersei. Her own uncle barely gives a poo poo. Where the Starks start loving up is when the game becomes "honor" versus "back-stabbing treachery". When dealing with their own people who they know and rule justly and have done right by, everything seems to work out. When they go down to King's Landing to deal with the schemers and plotters they get circles run around them. I think with all of the aforementioned loyalty displayed in the last book, we are being set up for the Starks coming back stronger in the long run (well not stronger than they started, but relatively stronger than some of the other families).
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Aug 16, 2011 14:46
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Kainser posted:Which Lannister bannerman flipflopped? My fault, I was probably thinking of the Bloody Mummers, which obviously doesn't count anyway since they are sellswords. In retrospect we don't know a whole lot about their individual bannermen outside of the Cleganes (or else I am just blanking on them). My point was more to counter the "the (current) Starks do alright if they have lots of power otherwise they suck at politics/ruling" argument. They seem like they inspire a lot of loyalty among their own bannermen and various people who they run across, and in the long run it seems like this is going to pay off. The Manderlies and the mountain tribes are going to great lengths to help a family which is on the verge of being wiped out, when they could just sit back and try to survive.
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Aug 16, 2011 16:03
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Mr Crustacean posted:A Time For Wolves is so much more badass than A Dream Of Spring. Seriously. The only thing I can think of is that it sounds too specific to the Starks when he has introduced a lot of other characters since then. Plus maybe he decided he wanted to keep loving over the Starks even in the last book.
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Aug 16, 2011 19:08
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Junkenstein posted:Technically, he still hasn't finished what he intended AFFC to be. Awesome! That means that he should have a ton of chapters already left over and it shouldn't take as long! Right..?
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May 11, 2012 15:53
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Bulletproof Tiger posted:Like, she lets Jaime free for dumb reasons, but then Jaime becomes the best loving character in the series. Haha, the best mind-gently caress thing about people hating Cat is that: 1) Their primary reason for hating her is that she freed Jaime 1a) Jaime becomes the best character in the series 2) Their secondary reason for hating her is that she sets a trap to kill Jaime It's the same guy! Cat rules. She is mean as gently caress to emo Jon Snow. She claws her own face to pieces when her children die. She has an awesome Uncle who she respects while openly showing disdain for her dumbshit brother. She is the only one brave enough to try to gently caress up the Lannisters after they mess with her family (how could she know she was kidnapping the best one? She can't read Tyrion's POVs, and at least she did better than her milquetoast husband). She rolls her eyes at her crazy sister every day.
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Mar 11, 2013 16:15
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In It For The Tank posted:There's a few more: Dany was an underaged rape victim who essentially developed Stockholme Syndrome for her rapist, its not like Drogo was the innocent victim in that rape. Same thing with Tyrion's. He was a victim, the bigger victim was the girl who got gang raped in the same scene. Even Theon's sexual abuse is mostly implied, and the stuff on screen happens at the expense of another woman who is flat out kidnapped and raped. The point is, there is measurable statistics for male on male rape in our enlightened society. The excuse for this series when rape comes up is usually "well it is an awful time period where this poo poo actually happened", and yet even in instances where you would think there would be tons of male rapes (in armies isolated from women, in prisons and dungeons, on the freakin' Wall where the Night Watch is forbidden to have women and most of the dudes are basically prisoners), it usually stops short at just threats or implications. I'm not arguing that there aren't some instances, but even the examples being brought up our typically accompanied by a female victim who has it worse (except in Theon's case where he probably was also mutilated).
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Mar 15, 2013 21:42
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Didn't his entire army go north of the wall to flank Mance's army during the battle at Castle Black?
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May 9, 2014 22:44
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Aurain posted:Sansa's a little behind the show because we know a little about how Petyr is intending to solidify his hold on the Eyrie in the books, though they have diverged from it. Don't act like you don't know that they are going to fill the time with a bunch of scenes of Littlefinger leering at her creepily while expositing about random plots.
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Jun 16, 2014 22:17
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I don't know, I could see calling Rhaegar "selfish" but at the same time, he might have just been the type of sensitive guy who wouldn't really think everything would go to utter poo poo as fast as it did. Like it went from R+L eloping and running off, to Brandon riding into King's Landing and yelling threats, to straight up execution of several major lords. Brandon and his mates should have definitely been arrested but I would think normally any sane king would get some concessions from their fathers and send them home or maybe imprison them for awhile, not kill all of the fathers and demand the heads of other family members.emanresu tnuocca posted:Saeka is right iirc, after Rhaegar and Lyanna eloped and Rickard, Brandon, Jon's heir and a whole bunch of other lords went to Aerys and got burned Aerys sent a raven to Jon Arryn demanding that he send him Robert and Ned's heads, effectively this was the start of the rebellion, there's little to say in regards to Robert's loyalty as effectively the crown declared war on the houses Baratheon and Stark. And house Arryn; he killed Jon Arryn's nephew/heir when he killed Brandon's other friends, and then immediately demanded the heads of his two wards. Hard to ignore that combination. So that's 3 major houses that Aerys declared war on in one fell swoop, at that point kind of hard to avoid a major civil war.
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Oct 30, 2014 17:35
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Intel&Sebastian posted:They confirmed flashbacks in this upcoming season so it could be nothing. On the other hand, I thought one of the major (or at least more convincing) arguments against Stoneheart was that Michelle Fairley might not want to waste her time putting on a ton of makeup and not speaking for a few scenes per season when she could be doing other things. If they are bringing her back for flashbacks, they can do double duty and film LS scenes.
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Nov 5, 2014 19:29
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Grendels Dad posted:The stupidity of the Darkstar character is somewhat diminished if you keep the unreliable narrators involved in mind. I guess Doran's statements about Darkstar are as close to real GRRM-confirmation that this guy is dangerous, but everything we learn about him in Arianne's chapters is to be taken with a grain of salt because Arianne is a dummy. It's like thinking Aurane Waters is the most beautiful man in Westeros because drunken stupid Cersei moons over him for three sentences. I've pointed this out before but the big joke about Darkstar is that he wasn't granted the "Sword of the Morning" title so he became "of the night". He is basically a petulant little wad. His own family judged him unworthy, so there is no way we are supposed to think he is actually this super badass; he is just badass enough to leave his family's title of "super badass" vacant and react really embarrassingly about it.
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Jun 22, 2015 18:40
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Mance is 100% not the hooded guy, Theon is just done talking to Mance in the great hall when Mance is ordered to play cheerful songs and goes to the dais and Theon leaves the hall and runs into the hooded figure. So it can't possibly be mance which also suggests that Mance and his ladies really weren't involved in the murders (if the hooded figure is indeed the culprit). There's some cause to think Big Walder (the short one) was involved in the murders but I don't really recall any of them short of the fact that Big Walder seems to hate his cousin and isn't too impressed with the poo poo Ramsay is up to. Big Walder definitely killed Little Walder but probably wasn't involved in the other murders. LW's death and BW going "uh I think I saw him walking with some Manderly men" is just what caused a whole shitstorm to erupt in the castle.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:16
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Krinkle posted:Someone find me reasons to think big walder killed small walder because I keep hearing that but I don't remember any hints to that. I haven't read it in awhile but there are comments that Little Walder is becoming Ramsey's protege basically and helping him with some of his torturing, while meanwhile Theon notices that Big Walder is kinder to him but is also looking more tired and withdrawn, kind of hinting that LW is starting to practice his newfound predilections on BW. Then when LW is killed BW is brought in covered in his blood, but when the men find LW a few minutes later his blood is frozen because of how cold it is. He then gives kind of a half-assed answer to who he last saw LW with which is like "some random Manderly dudes". I thought it was pretty obvious the first time I read it and I usually miss everything, like Renly being gay etc.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:33
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Even if he didn't recognize that Jeyne wasn't Arya his current options seem to be: save my arch-nemesis' little sister or use this as an opportunity to gently caress with the Night's Watch.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:12
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Manderly's plan probably wasn't to get him and his men in a mutually assured slaughter inside the castle, but generally just to gently caress with the Freys and look for an opportunity to sabotage the Bolton's plans. They seemed to be doing this pretty well when they fed a few of the Freys to everyone, and maybe if he had his men backstab/turn on the Freys once they marched against Stannis. The throat slicing was probably just a miscalculation on his part when loving with the Freys, he was walking a pretty fine line the entire time.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:35
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Manderley hates the Freys so much he'd literally baked them into pies and ate them and then fed them to their relatives, you guys are overestimating how cold and calculated he is about the whole thing, he seriously just wants to loving murder as many Freys and Boltons as he can, I don't think he minds dying in the process of doing it. I'm not arguing against that, and I mentioned the Frey pie thing. I agree that he is cold and calculated, I think that his plans are more involved than getting his men slaughtered in a castle where they are outnumbered when instead he can have them further sabotage the Frey and Bolton plans and kill more of them in the long term. That answers Krinkle's question about why it didn't erupt into an all out battle when the Frey's attacked him, they were still biding their time for a longer term betrayal.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:59
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They are delaying the show a whopping 2-3 weeks. If they are pushing it back for the book that means they would have to have an ironclad date for the book's release of like that 2nd/3rd week week of April. But it seems unrealistic this far out that they would have this information but not be able to rush the printing any faster.
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Oct 31, 2015 00:50
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George will be ready in April 2016 with another 10 page sample chapter which is all he wrote in 2015
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Nov 12, 2015 22:43
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TommyGun85 posted:ASOIAF fans are the whiniest babies ever. Fans of The Dark Tower waited 20 years for the conclusion of that series and it was the worst possible ending imagineable. We've also been waiting 20 years though and have less overall books to show for it. Also we might not get the last few books at all since George will be in his mid-70s by even a generous estimate for the release of the final book. We might get no ending OR a bad ending still, there's no way of telling yet. King was also writing 2-3 books per year during the longest gaps between Dark Tower books. GRRM has been writing some short stories for Wildcards. There's just no comparison.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:57
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nine-gear crow posted:...In the moment. It becomes a bit less badass and smart when you realize she just started a loving war that gets most of her family killed right then and there. I mean, she basically starts it earlier if anything, and maybe gives the enemy the advantage (since Ned being in enemy clutches is not equivalent to Tyrion being so, for various reasons) But Cersei was looking to assassinate Robert and Ned was snooping into poo poo and basically everyone involved was overly proud and war happy to begin with. The whole thing is basically just a shitshow, everyone is plotting against everyone and it's a powder keg with all these rich assholes having armies they can raise anytime someone looks at them funny.
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Mar 5, 2019 21:57
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What floored me about this episode is how seemingly unprepared all the people who have lived through the past several years are for shifting alliances and treaties and such. Like the reaction to Jon bending the knee to Dany, or the Lannisters joining the cause was complete bewilderment and anger. But even if you won the war, you gotta figure you're not wiping your enemies from the face of the earth(?), eventually there's going to be a truce and then you're going to resume trading and sharing the continent with these people.
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Apr 15, 2019 19:19
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:Still pretty impressed with how dumb Sansa is. In theory she has a few decent points: 1) Jon could have probably at least temporarily kept his King in the North status and still swayed Dany to the battle, gaining the massive reinforcements while also keeping the northerners happy and on their side. This is essentially the same problem he ran into while trying to recruit the Lannisters, he is both Ned Starks honorable son while being as impulsive as Robb was when he met a pretty girl. 2) They do need to take care of practicalities like feeding the big rear end army and dragons and this is probably something that shouldn't be overlooked entirely while giving apocalyptic speeches. The biggest problem the show has had for awhile is that melodrama is elevated well above characters who are believably intelligent. It's been the biggest problem with Tyrion for a long while now. Effectively the plot of these scenes was that Sansa has been running poo poo in Winterfell while Jon has been off on his grand adventure and she wants to convey that you still gotta pay the bills and poo poo, while Jon is trying to convey that there is super big "survival of species" picture stuff going on. This is actually a pretty decent framework for a compelling storyline, but they have to frame it like the Kardashians are bickering again.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:27
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Food will theoretically matter during the fight with the zombie army so that your soldiers aren't starving to death.
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Apr 17, 2019 20:53
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Yeah definitely agreed
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Apr 17, 2019 20:59
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:But they were talking at the level of winter lasting years, so how big is Dany's army where that depletes the supply by next week when the zombies show up? I'm not talking about them exhausting a year's* supply of food within a week, I am assuming that a war against a massive undead army numbering in the hundreds of thousands is going to take weeks or months or even years. Like with meta-knowledge of the show we know it will probably be over after one big battle when Jon stabs the Night King with Lightbringer. But assuming this is a protracted engagement, quadrupling the amount of people quadruples your resource consumption. Also "let's stop and think about how we are going to feed this huge army" isn't at all equivalent to "let's turn them away and instantly turn them into our mortal enemies". I don't think Sansa ever advocated for that position? My overall point is that setting up a contrast of "big picture" vs "practicalities of day to day life" makes sense and could be a good conflict, they just hosed it up by making it dumb and melodramatic. I am not arguing for Sansa's position since her approach was to be pouty and mean to a Dragon Queen, I'm just saying in theory worrying about practicalities isn't automatically a stupid thing. *I may be misremembering but I thought Sansa's discussion with one of Bronze Yohn Royce indicated they had enough food to last the people currently in Winterfell for a year...that may have been one of the last episodes from the previous season because I was watching the replay right beforehand
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Apr 17, 2019 21:32
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Only a true Stark would do something so stupid as to tell Dany about his lineage poo poo like 2 hours before they all desperately need her to pilot a dragon in a giant battle. Lol yeah the whole thing was pretty hilariously awkward and a weird moment for it, right before you both have to lead your armies into the biggest battle in human history. But her "so your best friend and brother are the two key witnesses to you being the rightful heir to the Iron Throne  " face was awesome
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Apr 22, 2019 16:51
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Yeah I didn't expect them to try and survive a siege or anything but the dude who schemed away half of Stannis army before he even hit the beach at KL is sitting right there and it doesn't even look like they asked him if he's got any ideas It's not like he could apply any lessons that he learned in the battle of Blackwater to a fight against an enemy that is explicitly susceptible to fire
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Apr 22, 2019 21:31
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It's great that Dorne accomplished literally nothing except racking up one of the 3 Lannister child kills. They were supposed to be the one big unallied kingdom who needed to be wooed because the military forces of the other houses had been getting depleted and they were the wildcard, but all of their leadership killed each other and then died and now they are just a complete non-entity. Even Oberyn could've been removed from the plot because all he did was turn the Mountain into a zombie which might come into play but probably won't, and if you removed the rest of the Martells then all you would really need to do is have Myrcella fall down some stairs or something and we would be in the exact same spot anyway.
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Apr 23, 2019 18:59
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Peter Dinklage is probably going to run into career issues just because there are only so many roles he can be cast in, and most of those are ones he wouldn't want to take because he couldn't keep his self-respect if he did take them. Like, he's genuinely good at his job, but he kinda already won the lottery with this role. I honestly feel like we are moving away from that paradigm. As noted above, he can just be cast in whatever role where his dwarfism isn't a factor, or ones that are really honest and well done like Three Billboards. He's not necessarily doomed to the Warwick Davis path these days.
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Apr 24, 2019 21:20
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Ginette Reno posted:((Comments permitted, but ONLY on the NFL and the draft. Off topic comments will be deleted)) Can't believe there are 99 bootlickers who actually commented on the dumb NFL stuff instead of just flooding with "BOOK WHEN!" and pissing him and his assistant off by forcing them to delete every comment
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Apr 25, 2019 18:24
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