Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
  • Post
  • Reply
Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Solice Kirsk posted:

Well thats not totally true. We know that Bran sacrifices Hodor and the Reeds to get more warg power and he actually meets one of the Children. Thats a pretty big reveal to be honest. The big problem is that his whole thing for the last 6 years was how to get Dany relevant to the story and he managed to get her even further away by the end of ADWD. She is now back in Dothraki territory where she started off loving 16 years ago.

Out of curiosity, how many have actually received the book early? Was it like everyone that ordered it from the German Amazon or was it just a select few? Seems like there were a few in the old bad thread who had just got it, but I haven't seen any of them posting in here yet. Probably out of fear since these threads have been probation bait for the last week.

Regardless of whether or not she's in Dothraki territory, she's there riding a full-grown dragon and that's a pretty significant development.



As far as the leak goes, I think it's more than 180, given that Amazon Japan started selling copies, as well as brick&mortar bookstores in Germany.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




I found scans on another website and read the first 100 pages or so (don't want to get probated by posting the links). It's great so far. It was amazing reading a new Bran chapter for the first time since 2005 for me.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




I don't think Aegon's alive. The guy who says he's Aegon is merely posing. Hence, mummer's dragon.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




I have a hunch that the ending will involve Dany defeating the Others and taking the throne but the seeds will be planted for her to descend into madness like her father. You catch glimpses of her losing her grip on reality throughout the books.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Paper Lion posted:

So I am sure all you sperglords are gonna get the book and be all "heh it sucks do I get wildcards cred now? HEH " but it's honestly pretty good. Like, miles better than Feast. The jon chapters are interesting, the way he shows how hosed up Meereen ends up is really cool, and yeah Tyrion chapters are somehow the lowpoint but rather than claim it's all bad writing there (some of it can be though I admit) I think that really is more just a testament to how well written the rest of the book is.

Point is, don't be slamming on Dance. I'm not sure if it was worth waiting through 6 years of water damaged calendars, NFL, pizza and Wild Cards bullshit, but it's a drat strong addition to the saga.

Only read the first third so far, but I agree based on how it's been progressing. The new book is far better than Feast and almost as good as ASOS in my eyes.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Ixian posted:

I don't want to be spoiled on ADWD, but I understand that (I'll spoiler all this just in case) Bloodraven, or the story of Bloodraven, is somehow involved so I am trying to remember from the books/Novella - we know that he's one of the "Great Bastards", and was the Hand at one point, and then Egg shipped his rear end off to the Wall, where he became Lord Commander. That's all been established pre-Dance. What I am trying to remember is if anything is said about what happened to him? Did Mormont become Lord Commander after him? Is it mentioned that he wandered off somewhere, died, or is all that left unsaid to date?

Just trying to get the story to date straight before the 12th.

All you know is that he was supposedly a sorcererous Hand of the King who ended up in the black cells and then joined the Night's Watch, eventually rising up to become Lord Commander. I'm not sure if he immediately preceded Mormont, but I think Denys Mallister's memories of previous elections in the end of ASOS indicate that there have been several LC's between them.

Also, it is strongly implied that Bloodraven could change his appearance like a faceless man in The Mystery Knight.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Honestly, given the problems the Boltons cause throughout history and even the Hornwood lands conflict in aCoK, why didn't the Starks just get all their bannermen and steamroll those assholes? Nobody.Would.Care.

I'm willing to bet if a lesser house in the Westerlands had a reputation for wearing the skins of former Lannisters, their castle would have been a pile of rubble already.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Ray_ posted:

This post is all spoilers, but nothing too terrible.

Dany still dumb:

Is this some stalwart hero? An exiled Lord or famous knight or even a commoner with exceptional qualities? Nope. It's a sellsword captain with a gold tooth. like 4 paragraphs before:


God I hope she dies.

On the other hand, the Lord of White Harbor is pretty cool.

When I read that all I could think of was

Anyway, dude reminds me of Doran Martell. Manderly takes more overt action than Martell, though. For example, he disappears a few Freys on the way to meet some other northern lords. He intentionally set a slow loving pace and when these Freys raced ahead, they got "lost" and no trace of them could be found.

The Boltons are hosed up, man. Seems as if Ramsay made Theon into an eunuch. Ramsay also made him eat out fake Arya in order to get her wet enough to bed on their wedding night. This after he nonchalantly jammed 2 fingers into her without warning and complained that she was too dry.



(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Gaussian posted:

I actually enjoyed Bran's chapters this time, but what's the Bloodraven reveal you're talking about? I probably read his last (most important) chapter at about 4:00 in the morning, so my memory is hazy. I looked at the Tower of the Hand and all it mentions is some bastard Targ and right now I really don't see any connection between that and Bran.
Still processing a lot of what happened, but overall I must say everyone is right about Dany needing to get the gently caress out of Mereen and get her head on straight, jesus.

In some of the previous books and the Dunk & Egg short stories, Gurm offered hints about what happened to Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers, who was the Hand of the King but ruled the 7 kingdoms with spells and sorcery. He supposedly had a thousand eyes and one, but ended up being sent from the black cells to the Wall, where he became Lord Commander. Some people speculated that he was indeed the Three-Eyed Crow, and it ended up being right.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Why was there not a single mention of Howland Reed in the entire book?

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Insurrectionist posted:

I still worry that there's about a 95% chance that R+L=J is true, but after this book I'm really really hoping it's not. I didn't really care about it before, but with Aegon (whether he's the real Aegon or not, although frankly while possible, having him be fake would be really stupid IMO) popping up, having more secret Targs just seems like unbelieveably lovely storytelling. Ditto the hints at Tyrion being a secret Targ, though that's at least unlikely still. The constant red herrings about Jon's parentage just makes me roll my eyes at this point.

The worst part of Meereen for me wasn't the whole Daario thing/Dany being a spoiled kid, but the fact that not only was the padding boring as gently caress, but also offensively orientalist (All the slavers from Yunkai are unreasonably grotesque caricatures you say? Daario is the love-interest while Brown Ben Plum gets to be the stereotypical mercenary (cheered for Ben anyway cause gently caress Dany)? Pretty much all the Meereenese/Yunkai/Sellsword characters being ambiguously neutral (Pale Prince, Shavepate) at best, most of them are terrible people (yeah a lot of westerosi characters are terrible too, but at least they're not slave traders, and there are a lot of characters to cheer for too while there are only a couple here, half of which are white as gently caress and all part of Dany's pre-Meereen retinue)?).

Shavepate seemed a little brusque, sure, but he actually could have given Dany a lot of good advice had she loving listened. At least he and Barristan got to work together.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




The Jon chapters were pretty good. The only thing they were really missing that could have put them over the top would have been an Other or Wight attack. Though I can see how that would have potentially gotten Bowen Marsh to actually loving realize what the Night's Watch is there for and reconsider the assassination.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




tin can made man posted:

In AFFC, Sam chapters mention Skagos as some island purported to be filled with cannibals. Given the last lines of Davos' chapters, that seems to be where Rickon and Osha are.

e: I'm not sure how Wex would have know specifically what island they sailed off to, unless he overheard them talking or something.


Yeah, the cliffhanger isn't "will Jon die/will Jon live?" it's more like "Jon just got stabbed, now there's a million different things that can happen like wildling revolt, Watch revolt, Wight ressurection, Azor Azhai ressurection, etc".

What the gently caress was up with Moqorro? Out of nowhere comes this insanely powerful Red Priest who has turned into some sort of charred zombie. If R'hllor/The Red Faith believe Dany is Azor Azhai, why would they want Victarion to find her? His intention is basically to turn her into a salt wife and enslave her dragons himself, which removes Dany's agency as AA or the prince that was promised or whatever.

Speaking of prophecy, Qaithe mentions seeing a man with "one eye sailing a sea surrounded by ten white arms" or something similar. At first I thought this might connect to Euron, but Bloodraven/Three-Eyed Crow has one eye, as well, and is coursed through with weirwood roots. Or it could be something else entirely.


Wait, when did Moqorro turn into a burned zombie? I thought that was just Victarion's hand + forearm?

Also, I got the impression that the Euron has already done the necessary sacrifice so that if somebody blows the horn and dies, the dragons would still be his. However, with Moqorro's help Victarion will sacrifice someone or something so that the dragons will become his own instead. (Though I'm not sure who's going to blow it)

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




tin can made man posted:

Victarion describes him as being black - not black like a Summer Islander, but literally just black. I forget the actual phrasing.


Oh, I'm pretty sure that means he's just from Sothoros, not that he's all charred on the surface.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




FuriousxGeorge posted:

It would have worked if he wasn't late.

It would have worked if Dany hadn't rejected him in favor of Hizdahr. Seriously? Meereen over Dorne?

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




And Bloodraven. Six Targs.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




HelixFox posted:

It was interesting to see the parallels between Jon and Robb's deaths, most notably that they both got stabbed by a former ally and both have their wolves freak the gently caress out and thought "Welp, better keep them locked up and well away from me!!!"

Overall I enjoyed the book but am left pissed off at the lack of payoff from most of the plotlines. Bran and Davos disappear before the book's halfway point and Stannis seems to be camped outside Winterfell for half the book and the most we get is Ramsay's letter, which is obviously hyperbole.

That said, my guess is that Roose led an attack against Stannis outside the walls of Winterfell, but Stannis won and killed/captured Roose, while Ramsay escaped back to Winterfell. Someone earlier on pointed out that Roose wouldn't have let Ramsay send that letter and I'm inclined to agree, which suggests Roose is out of the picture. Hmm, I don't think the Manderlys would have joined the attack against Stannis if it came to that and it's possible Alys Karstark might have interfered to make sure the Karstark men didn't betray Stannis as well.

I guess we'll find out in ten years from now, though.

There seems to be something suspicious about the letter. Didn't it lack a seal and also the marks of all the other Northern lords? If so, it differs from Ramsay's previous letters. On a similar note, it lacks Ramsay's signature piece of flayed skin, which he probably would have included had he killed Stannis. Instead, he claims to have Stannis's magic sword.

Secondly, there's something off with the chronology. We know Stannis is 3 days away from Winterfell, so provided that Tycho properly informed him that the Karstarks were traitorous (which seems to be a given at this point), that means he eliminated the Karstark backstab with plenty of time to prepare for the battle. Most importantly, with fake Arya in hand, there is no reason to storm Winterfell.

So what actually happened? I think the Boltons believed Stannis was encamped right outside the gates and sent out Manderley and Freys accordingly. Somehow, the Manderleys and Umbers butchered the Freys and informed Stannis 3 days away. As proof of his death, they couldn't bring a body, but were able to borrow his sword. Stannis and co. retreated to Torrhen's square, and the Manderleys brought the sword back to Winterfell. 3 days to get there, 1 day planning, and 3 days going back. 7 days of battle.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Mister Perky posted:

My first thought was that the letter Jon gets didn't even come from Winterfell or the Boltons at all.

The way it was addressed to "Bastard" and kept calling him "Bastard" had me thinking Alister Thorne, since he's hated Jon since GoT, has always called him "bastard" and knows how easily being called a Bastard baits Jon Snow into impulsive, emotional, irrational behavior (like breaking his Night's Watch Vows and storming off on foot to march hundreds of miles south on a one-man Jihad of Bolton rear end-Kicking).

The problem with my theory is the pink wax (even though it doesn't have the Bolton flayed man logo in it) and Thorne knowing about Ramsay Bolton having a household servant called Reek, because he can't have the wax or know of Reek unless he's had past dealings/communication with the Boltons [which we haven't seen, though that doesn't mean it hasn't happened; Thorne was pretty invisible in ADWD after all]. But he'd know or could easily find out about the rest [Stannis' magic sword, Mance Rayder being sent off to rescue "Arya".] And Thorne's had too much open animosity to not have at least some tie to the conspiracy to kill Jon, and he's not out there with a knife. He makes sense as the mastermind and as the man who stands the most to gain by being elected Lord-Commander after Jon's death. Also, the letter just happens to arrive at Just The Right Time, which is much easier if it's flying along the wall than north from Winterfell.

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense, as I proposed on the previous page, that it's simply a misled Ramsay who wrote the letter? There's no way Mel or Thorne would know about Reek. I think the Manderlys and Stannis played Ramsay for a fool and passed along the sword and claims of a 7-day battle. The letter being Thorne's is far too circuitous a scheme when the plotters already have an abundance of opportunities and reasons to stab Jon Snow.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




hypocrite lecteur posted:

I don't know if you guys are trolling or serious when you say stuff like this. Is your position honestly that GRRM tells stories in a way that stands head & shoulders above other writing and that if he died no one could take his place

Have you seen how bad popular fantasy writing is? GRRM may not be Hemingway, but he's head and shoulders above other writers within the genre.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




literallyincredible posted:

on my reread of the series I was kinda shocked how much Marwyn gets mentioned. Its also notable that *every* person who cites him as a mentor is an evil gently caress who uses horrible necromancy and blood magic. I'm 100% positive he's set to be a villainous figure.

I think he's unorthodox but I doubt he's evil. Qyburn lost his chain because of what he did on his own, Marwyn still ranks as an Archmaester in the eyes of the Citadel. He may have extensive knowledge of physiology but I trust he got it all from dissections.

Likewise, he taught Mirri Maz Duar how to heal--a skill that she used for decades to keep her village healthy and happy. She's not evil.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




At this point I'm positive Aegon is Illyrio's son.

He has to be in on this for a bigger reason than simply money or power in a continent he doesn't live in. Tyrion didn't seem convinced that Illyrio wanted to be Master of Coin. He seemed sad to be sending Aegon off on the river and even brought him his favorite ginger candies. The childrens' clothes (too nice for a slave, too small for Viserys) and the statue of a young Illyrio seem like a big tip-off.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Quentyn, Dany and Daario:

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply