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IUG
Jul 14, 2007

Without me, there is no mission.
I am the mission!


I knew it was going to happen, but Sig Bur won't run on my mid 2012 Macbook Pro. But I don't want to buy another computer now if it's going to be obsolete in just two years thanks to them retiring Intel. So I guess it's time for me to move over to my HTPC (which hasn't really been a HTPC for years now thanks to FireTV Sticks) for the meantime, if I even return to Mac after that.

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Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

It's your HPV, Veronica. I'm just carrying it.



IUG posted:

I knew it was going to happen, but Sig Bur won't run on my mid 2012 Macbook Pro. But I don't want to buy another computer now if it's going to be obsolete in just two years thanks to them retiring Intel. So I guess it's time for me to move over to my HTPC (which hasn't really been a HTPC for years now thanks to FireTV Sticks) for the meantime, if I even return to Mac after that.

You could just run Mojave or Catalina on your mid 2012 MBP for years to come considering that both OS releases will be receiving security updates for 3-4+ years and Apple isn't dropping Intel support for a good 5+ years... or get a new MBA/MBP of your choice because Intel support won't be dropped before 2025 if not later and they're the best laptops Apple has made in many years. No reason to doomsay at all!

Cough Drop The Beat fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Jun 23, 2020

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

lol why would you want to use the new mac os

snow leopard 4 lyfe

Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

It's your HPV, Veronica. I'm just carrying it.



Bob Morales posted:

lol why would you want to use the new mac os

snow leopard 4 lyfe

Even High Sierra still gets security updates, so I'm not quite sure why everyone's melting down over Apple dropping Intel support which isn't happening tomorrow or anytime in the foreseeable future before the average life of most people's Macs.

IUG
Jul 14, 2007

Without me, there is no mission.
I am the mission!


I'm not "doomsaying". I'm saying I don't know if buying a Mac now is a wise idea considering I've been using my current one for 8 years, and anything I buy now will have a much shorter lifespan.

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Fallen Rib

IUG posted:

I knew it was going to happen, but Sig Bur won't run on my mid 2012 Macbook Pro. But I don't want to buy another computer now if it's going to be obsolete in just two years thanks to them retiring Intel. So I guess it's time for me to move over to my HTPC (which hasn't really been a HTPC for years now thanks to FireTV Sticks) for the meantime, if I even return to Mac after that.
There will almost certainly be a patch to install macOS BS on older macs, as there already is for Catalina and Mojave

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

https://developer.apple.com/documen...ion_environment

About the Rosetta Translation Environment
Learn how Rosetta translates executables, and understand what Rosetta canít translate.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

quote:

Rosetta translates all x86_64 instructions, but it doesnít support the execution of some newer instruction sets and processor features, such as AVX, AVX2, and AVX512 vector instructions.

Is this going to be a big deal? Will Adobe just automatically re-compile all their poo poo without needing any legacy code?

Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

It's your HPV, Veronica. I'm just carrying it.



IUG posted:

I'm not "doomsaying". I'm saying I don't know if buying a Mac now is a wise idea considering I've been using my current one for 8 years, and anything I buy now will have a much shorter lifespan.

Dude, you could buy a new Intel Mac today and have it last 6-7 years easily with full support and security updates. That's the whole point. The existence of ARM Macs later this year or next year isn't instantly going to throw your shiny new 2020 Macbook in the trash.

Violator
May 15, 2003



Cough Drop The Beat posted:

Dude, you could buy a new Intel Mac today and have it last 6-7 years easily with full support and security updates. That's the whole point. The existence of ARM Macs later this year or next year isn't instantly going to throw your shiny new 2020 Macbook in the trash.

Yeah. I got my PowerMac G5 a year or two before the Intel transition and I used that thing for nine years before upgrading again to an Intel iMac. You should get 5+ years out of it. I'm also running a 2018 MBP and I'm expecting to run that for a long time, too.

I don't think it's as bad nowadays, but the general rule used to be "don't buy a revision 1 Mac, wait for the refresh" because there were always bugs that they had to work out. Off the top of my head I had to have the video card, video card fan (x2), and a processor/heat sink replaced on that PMG5 machine because of constant kernel panics. The original rMBP I had also had several issues. If they do a processor transition and an industrial design update, let other folks figure out the bugs first.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013


Brain Issues posted:

Has anyone here installed the developer beta yet?

I did. No standout issues so far, but I'm really not a fan of the UI changes to the title bars. White-against-white makes it harder to pick out different windows when you have multiple open, and the transparent underlay of blurred window content under title bars gives me unpleasant Windows flashbacks.

Gay Retard
Jun 7, 2003



Brain Issues posted:

Has anyone here installed the developer beta yet?

I have, and it already feels more snappy than pretty much every other build of Catalina I've used. Some third party apps I use are broken (Bartender 3, Karabiner), but overall it seems fine. There isn't anything I can see that is really worth updating for, though.

Brain Issues
Dec 16, 2004

lol

Gay Retard posted:

I have, and it already feels more snappy than pretty much every other build of Catalina I've used. Some third party apps I use are broken (Bartender 3, Karabiner), but overall it seems fine. There isn't anything I can see that is really worth updating for, though.

Thanks for telling me bartender is currently broken. That would be a deal breaker for me.

Violator
May 15, 2003



Roadie posted:

I did. No standout issues so far, but I'm really not a fan of the UI changes to the title bars. White-against-white makes it harder to pick out different windows when you have multiple open, and the transparent underlay of blurred window content under title bars gives me unpleasant Windows flashbacks.

I do like how there seems to be more consistency now, even if they need to tweak the colors and visual feedback for selected items. The past few years have seemed like almost random placement of the window controls, interface elements, buttons, toolbars, etc. at the top of the window and it seems a bit more focused now.

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004




I think Dark Mode with the new design language is going to look pretty boss. I liked the bits they showed.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013


Brain Issues posted:

Thanks for telling me bartender is currently broken. That would be a deal breaker for me.

Dozer works fine for me, for an alternative.

Edit: Also, Control Center is a definite step forward for UI minimalists, and will be more so if they add the remaining stuff from iOS to it, like Home controls.

Roadie fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jun 23, 2020

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004




It's literally day 1 of beta ... Apple made significant changes to the menu bar which will require work for Bartender, and Karabiner loads a kext so will need changes as well. Patience is a virtue.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013


On a side note, it's pretty funny to realize that if they let you put Widgets on the desktop to match the iOS home screen behavior, they'll have reinvented Dashboard.

Gay Retard
Jun 7, 2003



Roadie posted:

Dozer works fine for me, for an alternative.

Edit: Also, Control Center is a definite step forward for UI minimalists, and will be more so if they add the remaining stuff from iOS to it, like Home controls.

That's kinda how I feel about the iOS beta as well - sure, the new features are fun to play with, but you're really just waiting until developers start releasing their own customized widgets. I'm really excited to see what third party developers do with widgets for smart controlled devices.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Cough Drop The Beat posted:

You could just run Mojave or Catalina on your mid 2012 MBP for years to come considering that both OS releases will be receiving security updates for 3-4+ years and Apple isn't dropping Intel support for a good 5+ years... or get a new MBA/MBP of your choice because Intel support won't be dropped before 2025 if not later and they're the best laptops Apple has made in many years. No reason to doomsay at all!

Yep. As much as my 2013 is apparently compatible with Big Sur, Iíll probably stay on Mojave until it dies/I replace it with an ARMbook hopefully in like a year or two. Idk if my parentsí 09 iMac is on Yosemite or El Cap.

This isnít Windows, where every major version update of the past decade has come with a big UI/content shift.

Hell, Iím pretty sure like half of Mac owning goons are on Mojave or something older than Catalina because itís got such a reputation for bugginess.

TACD
Oct 27, 2000



I might be alone in this but I really hope that the transition to ARM kills Electron on the Mac. I really hate that every other app I discover turns out to be a gussied up Chrome window.

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011



TACD posted:

I might be alone in this but I really hope that the transition to ARM kills Electron on the Mac. I really hate that every other app I discover turns out to be a gussied up Chrome window.

I don't know why you would think Electron doesn't exist on ARM Windows/Linux.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013


TACD posted:

I might be alone in this but I really hope that the transition to ARM kills Electron on the Mac. I really hate that every other app I discover turns out to be a gussied up Chrome window.

It won't.

Edit: One interesting tidbit from one of the WWDC videos: they're adding "Universal Purchase" as a way for devs to link iOS and Mac versions of an app so a single purchase gets both versions. It's also enabled by default for new Catalyst apps.

Roadie fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jun 23, 2020

TACD
Oct 27, 2000



Boris Galerkin posted:

I don't know why you would think Electron doesn't exist on ARM Windows/Linux.
Gaaaah

rufius
Feb 27, 2011

Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.


Cough Drop The Beat posted:

Dude, you could buy a new Intel Mac today and have it last 6-7 years easily with full support and security updates. That's the whole point. The existence of ARM Macs later this year or next year isn't instantly going to throw your shiny new 2020 Macbook in the trash.

Ya I actually ended up buying a refurb MBP 16Ē. I realized that while my 2016 MBP 15Ē is fine, my sister in law needs a newer computer than the MBA 11Ē sheís been using that was my previous Mac. I also am not particularly interested in getting in on the first couple waves of ARM Macs. Iíll ride it out for the next 4-5 years with the 16Ē.

All in all, Iím happy. Itís an i9/32/1tb which is more than plenty for me and i got it for like $500 less than the list price of the new model.

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011



Roadie posted:

Edit: One interesting tidbit from one of the WWDC videos: they're adding "Universal Purchase" as a way for devs to link iOS and Mac versions of an app so a single purchase gets both versions. It's also enabled by default for new Catalyst apps.

Doesn't this already exist today?

Magic Mango
Aug 31, 2006

Only fools are enslaved by time and space.

Fun Shoe

TACD posted:

Gaaaah

Apple themselves are helping port Electron:

https://twitter.com/MarkVillacampa/...6764912643?s=20

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


IUG posted:

I knew it was going to happen, but Sig Bur won't run on my mid 2012 Macbook Pro. But I don't want to buy another computer now if it's going to be obsolete in just two years thanks to them retiring Intel. So I guess it's time for me to move over to my HTPC (which hasn't really been a HTPC for years now thanks to FireTV Sticks) for the meantime, if I even return to Mac after that.

Aside from the idea of just sitting out Big Sur, if you're looking for another laptop you can just wait till the first wave of ARM Macs arrives at the end of the year and decide if you want to buy one. I expect the rollout to follow the same pattern it did during the Intel transition: they'll want to do the highest volume products first. As such, back then, the first products transitioned were MacBook and iMac.

I know, I know, DONT EVER BUY FIRST GENERATION APPLE PRODUCTS" , but the other reasonable-seeming-to-me guess I have about how things play out is that this first wave of laptops will use an upclocked and upfeatured variant of A14, the chip they'll be using in the fall iPhone refresh.

In other words, the silicon should be 11th generation (we're subtracting 3 because they started numbering iPhone chips at A4 for whatever reason). They're not starting from zero.

We'll see whether they want to tackle a design change at the same time, which might be a reason to hold back. But if history is a guide, they won't: the first gen Intel Macs looked nearly identical to the PowerPC Macs they were replacing. So if you're happy with current Intel MacBook industrial design, you're likely to be happy with gen 1 ARM MacBooks.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013


Boris Galerkin posted:

Doesn't this already exist today?

Oh, you're right. I totally missed that it was a thing starting earlier this year.

I suppose the thing is them pushing for it to be enabled by default, then.

IUG
Jul 14, 2007

Without me, there is no mission.
I am the mission!


Yeah, then I might try Apple's trade in program with my 2012 laptop (they're giving like $250 for it) and go for the Mini route. I'm just anxious for those few hours I'll be without a computer, just in case my (Synology) Time Machine backup doesn't restore properly or something.

Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002



Pillbug

IUG posted:

I'm not "doomsaying". I'm saying I don't know if buying a Mac now is a wise idea considering I've been using my current one for 8 years, and anything I buy now will have a much shorter lifespan.

If it means anything to you, these will certainly be the last Macs to support Boot Camp. I installed Windows on my new 13" last week and omg I can play games now

TACD
Oct 27, 2000



Perhaps they got day 1 Adobe support of Apple Silicon because Photoshop is now an Electron app

Taima
Dec 31, 2006




So is that Big Sur beta stable enough to throw on my poo poo or what?

Gay Retard
Jun 7, 2003



Taima posted:

So is that Big Sur beta stable enough to throw on my poo poo or what?

Itís not really worth it.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



BobHoward posted:

We'll see whether they want to tackle a design change at the same time, which might be a reason to hold back. But if history is a guide, they won't: the first gen Intel Macs looked nearly identical to the PowerPC Macs they were replacing. So if you're happy with current Intel MacBook industrial design, you're likely to be happy with gen 1 ARM MacBooks.

Itís worth noting that redesigned iMacs and the fabled 14Ē MBP were both pretty heavily rumored to be on the docket for Summer 2020, way before COVID19.

It might be that both were originally slated to ship with Intel silicon for 1-2 years but now with the supply chain disruptions and everything else those plans were chucked and theyíre debuting the new bodies with the new chips.

Like for all we know maybe there was originally supposed to be a big iMac reveal in March.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade



If you have a pre-2016 laptop to spare, try installing Big Sur on that first.

There are reports of some T2 equipped Macs going into Activation Lock after installing.

There's also some success from people installing Beta 1 onto 2012 Mac Minis and 2011 MacBook Pros.

There's already a beta driver for Realtek USB-Wifi Adapters for Big Sur! The GitHub page lists all the adapters that will work.

https://github.com/chris1111/Wirele...Big-Sur-Adapter

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010




does anyone have Big Sur installed? Because I have heard nobody confirm that voice control is still in the System Prefernces. If anyone could confirm, and also check if it can be moved to the control center, that would be awesome. (Believe it or not I write a lot of novels using just voice control in pages).

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade



Voice Control: still in System Preferences

Can't seem to shove it into Control Center, I wound up deleting something in CC trying to do it

There's an Accessibility menu that becomes available in the menubar when I enable VC though.

Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jun 24, 2020

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010




Binary Badger posted:

Voice Control: still in System Preferences

Can't seem to shove it into Control Center, I wound up deleting something in CC trying to do it

There's an Accessibility menu that becomes available in the menubar when I enable VC though.

Thank you so much for checking. Well at least I can still write novels at an insane speed without having to worry about dragon dictation anymore

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Taima
Dec 31, 2006




Gay Retard posted:

Itís not really worth it.

Fair enough, thanks!

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