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FCKGW
May 21, 2006

aaaaaaaaaa
AAAAAAAAAAA
HHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!




Taima posted:

Fair enough, thanks!

At a minimum wait until the Public Beta later this summer unless you like torturing yourself

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Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade



It's only Beta 1 but it's fine, running it comfortably on a Late 2013 rMBP with 8 GB RAM, seems... snappy

In fact, I'm posting right this very second with it. Safari 14 is nice and clean and there's even a little shield icon in my Safari menubar that's telling me how many trackers it's preventing (10 of them!) and what I have open on other machines in an iCloud tab.

I wiped a spare SSD and installed from a USB key, it kinda looks like trying to do an upgrade install gives varying results.. I tried to upgrade from Mojave; it ran initially but then fell all over itself throwing some DiskManagement error, so I wiped and started clean.

Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jun 24, 2020

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade



Hmm, here's a small feature.. whenever I plug my MagSafe 2 cord into the MagSafe port, I now get the 'connected to power' sound I only used to hear on 2016 and newer rMBP / USB-C equipped rMBPs and rMBAs.

On a Late 2013 rMBP.

SaturdayKnight
Mar 31, 2011



Big Sur re-added the boot up chime, and added the the connected to power sound to MagSafe laptops... both of the those features were switches in terminal. I have the power chime and boot up chime on my 2013 pro on Mojave.

Donít even need Macintosh Operating System: Large Gentleman for these features.

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011



Tayter Swift posted:

If it means anything to you, these will certainly be the last Macs to support Boot Camp. I installed Windows on my new 13" last week and omg I can play games now

Maybe not though. Apparently Microsoft has a Windows 10 built for their ARM tablet (Surface Pro X). So depending on how much money potential Microsoft sees on making whatever changes it takes to get it to run on ARM Macs (vs keeping it exclusively for their own devices) then maybe weíll get Boot Camp still, eventually. Iím sure suits at Microsoft have already discussed this internally but who knows. Linux runs in Windows now so .

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



SaturdayKnight posted:

Big Sur re-added the boot up chime, and added the the connected to power sound to MagSafe laptops... both of the those features were switches in terminal. I have the power chime and boot up chime on my 2013 pro on Mojave.

Donít even need Macintosh Operating System: Large Gentleman for these features.

I'm so unreasonably happy they brought back the startup chime. that was such a bad decision to remove it

Jose Oquendo
Jun 20, 2004

At the end of 2018, a study was published by London Metropolitan University showing that certain bacteria, normally present only in intestinal tracts or feces, were found on McDonald's self-service screens.


So given recent events (gently caress lowtax) is there a Goon Apple/SHSC Discord?

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


I'm sort of hoping the boot up chime being re-enabled by Big Sur isn't a bug. I miss the chime. Yeah, it can be re-enabled. But having it on by default is nice. Some sort of indication that the computer is attempting to boot without seeing the screen is nice.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Daniel Bryan posted:

I'm sort of hoping the boot up chime being re-enabled by Big Sur isn't a bug. I miss the chime. Yeah, it can be re-enabled. But having it on by default is nice. Some sort of indication that the computer is attempting to boot without seeing the screen is nice.

they used the chime in one of the big sur intro videos, I think it's back to stay. hopefully.

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


Last Chance posted:

they used the chime in one of the big sur intro videos, I think it's back to stay. hopefully.

Yeah, I think so too. Considering it's now got an official setting:



Also, Big Sur installed and runs just fine on my 13" 2020 MBP. Running it from an external SSD. Seems to be a touch snappier than Catalina.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade



macOS 11.0 Beta 1: Bug Slur

Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jun 24, 2020

nexxai
Jul 17, 2002

quack quack bjork

Fun Shoe

Nevermind

SeANMcBAY
Jun 28, 2006

Look on the bright side.




I wonder if itíll be possible to unofficially run Big Sur on my late 2012 iMac. It has better specs then a lot of the officially supported Macs so I hope so.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013




Boris Galerkin posted:

Maybe not though. Apparently Microsoft has a Windows 10 built for their ARM tablet (Surface Pro X). So depending on how much money potential Microsoft sees on making whatever changes it takes to get it to run on ARM Macs (vs keeping it exclusively for their own devices) then maybe weíll get Boot Camp still, eventually. Iím sure suits at Microsoft have already discussed this internally but who knows. Linux runs in Windows now so .

It seems pretty unlikely that ďeventuallyĒ will be anytime soon.

Federighi explicitly says they are not doing Bootcamp in the Gruber interview (1 hour in if the time stamp fails)

https://youtu.be/Hg9F1Qjv3iU

Iíd say that someone who has kept a Mac running for 8 years would be better served buying an Intel one now than waiting for ARM. The problem is not only the bugs etc in Gen 1 Apple Hardware but also the rate of people proving over your favourite app to the new hardware. We lose key apps in every transition, so if you e got a setup and workflow you love, the last Intel is likely to preserve that without disruptions longer than the first ARM.

Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002



Pillbug

Thing is if you're running Boot Camp it's not just to run Windows but programs compiled for Windows, which without exception are currently compiled for x86. Just because Windows is ARM doesn't mean Windows apps are compatible.

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004




iOS (and presumably macOS) also tightly integrates with all of their "Apple silicon" fixed-function hardware in addition to just standard CPU & GPU. Windows already runs hot on Macs because of macOS's tighter integration with the hardware, even when most of it is standard Intel. What would be the point of running a poorly-performing version of Windows ARM natively, if you don't even get backwards compatibility with Windows-only software?

I don't see why virtualization software wouldn't allow it, though.

I'm personally excited for a $999 ARM Macbook Air, that would be a day 1 purchase for me I think, because Intel's performance per watt has really been holding ultraportables back for a while now. It's frustrating that browsing, media consumption & chatting drain battery so quickly while iPhone and iPad can do it for so long with such small batteries. I'm not sold on an Apple silicon desktop replacement laptop until they prove it out, though.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

Is there any windows only software that has a Windows ARM port that people would die without?

TTerrible
Jul 15, 2005


Fallen Rib

I use my macbook pro in a live production environment (not so much atm ) and being able to reboot it into a relatively high performance windows laptop is very useful. I really doubt any of the things I want to use will get fast support for ARM nor work acceptably through any kind of translation.

lunar detritus
May 6, 2009



Lipstick Apathy

I'd bet a sizable percentage of boot camp use is gaming since not every game that could run on mac has a port. That use is going to be more than dead on ARM.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade



This is the pink elephant in the room and Apple's biggest challenge; will people be able to live without BootCamp but with the potentially slower Parallels/VMWare world of virtualization?

I'm no Nostradamus, but I get the feeling Apple may have to hold the line on Intel Macs for a longer period than they plan before ARM Macs fully take off.

Perplx
Jun 26, 2004


Best viewed on Orgasma Plasma

Lipstick Apathy

I wonder if someone will make a thunderbolt bus powered x86 computer, you get up to 15 watts with thunderbolt 3 which is enough for a dual core and some ram.

SeANMcBAY
Jun 28, 2006

Look on the bright side.




lunar detritus posted:

I'd bet a sizable percentage of boot camp use is gaming since not every game that could run on mac has a port. That use is going to be more than dead on ARM.

Thatís pretty much what I used mine for along with the occasional program that didnít have a Mac equivalent. My late-2012 iMac still runs a surprising amount of games pretty decently so itís a shame.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Binary Badger posted:

This is the pink elephant in the room and Apple's biggest challenge; will people be able to live without BootCamp but with the potentially slower Parallels/VMWare world of virtualization?

I'm no Nostradamus, but I get the feeling Apple may have to hold the line on Intel Macs for a longer period than they plan before ARM Macs fully take off.

If you still need boot camp in 2020 just buy a windows laptop

Riven
Apr 22, 2002


Binary Badger posted:

This is the pink elephant in the room and Apple's biggest challenge; will people be able to live without BootCamp but with the potentially slower Parallels/VMWare world of virtualization?

I'm no Nostradamus, but I get the feeling Apple may have to hold the line on Intel Macs for a longer period than they plan before ARM Macs fully take off.

Thereís no guarantee thatís even possible. Big Sur doesnít support that through Rosetta 2 so Parallels will have to figure out how to do x86 translation. As of now there is no path to running Windows on ARM Macs, not even through Parallels.

What they showed was ARM Debian in Parallels.

Perplx
Jun 26, 2004


Best viewed on Orgasma Plasma

Lipstick Apathy

Qemu exists already, there will be x86 emulation on day 1, the real question is will it be fast enough.

GATOS Y VATOS
Aug 22, 2002






Soiled Meat

IUG posted:

I'm not "doomsaying". I'm saying I don't know if buying a Mac now is a wise idea considering I've been using my current one for 8 years, and anything I buy now will have a much shorter lifespan.

Yeah my 2015 MBP's motherboard died a few weeks ago and I was bummed because I can't afford a new laptop at this time and I was thinking about getting one this summer (well, before the world meltdown happened). The repair was cheaper than it was quoted as though, and they also gave me a new battery AND replaced the screen and keyboard as well so I figure I can get another 2 years out of this just fine. By then I guess I can look at what the apple chip macs are like. Nonetheless, I think even buying a mac now will still be fine for at last 5 years of life.

Fallom
Sep 6, 2008




Fun Shoe

Malcolm XML posted:

If you still need boot camp in 2020 just buy a windows laptop

i'm happy running it on my 16", why would I buy a windows laptop

Taima
Dec 31, 2006




I put Big Sur on my work MBP and welp, it shitted the whole thing up. Do not recommend. Multi-monitor issues. Adobe suite is shittered.

I thought living next to Big Sur would ingratiate me with the MacOS gods, but I'm forced to conclude that it did not.

Luceo
Apr 29, 2003

As predicted in the Bible.




Fun Shoe

Fallom posted:

i'm happy running it on my 16", why would I buy a windows laptop

Exactly, I have one computer that does everything I need it to.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



If this was a plan to get out of work while you Ďfix computer problemsí, I commend you. Any other reason, and Iím bewildered why you would try this.

Taima
Dec 31, 2006




What can I say, I get really excited by dumb poo poo like new Apple OS updates.

That and I have a parallel windows desktop that can handle the same functions. I mostly just use MacOS because Windows high DPI scaling makes me irrationally angry, but I can deal with it while the beta gets sorted out and the adobe suite gets updated.

Totally admit that it was real stupid though.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Fun Shoe

Taima posted:

Windows high DPI scaling

Yeah same, I canít even with this poo poo and itíll probably keep me on Apple stuff for work computers forever.

xgalaxy
Jan 27, 2004
i write code

I think people expecting cheaper Mac hardware because of this whole ARM switch are going to be really disappointed.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Binary Badger posted:

This is the pink elephant in the room and Apple's biggest challenge; will people be able to live without BootCamp but with the potentially slower Parallels/VMWare world of virtualization?

I'm no Nostradamus, but I get the feeling Apple may have to hold the line on Intel Macs for a longer period than they plan before ARM Macs fully take off.

for gaming I think I could actually be ok with something like a more mature version of GeForce now, XCloud, Stadia, or a combination thereof. I imagine Apple probably feels like it sees the writing on the wall on that front. Like you can imagine that the Apple TV becomes a pretty decent home for at least one of them in the future too.

Also the upcoming consoles look legitimately exciting, as do the AMD APUs. I imagine I could build something powerful, cheap, and small enough for my needs and still have a well-kitted Mac of some kind. Also graphics donít really matter to me, given that I have zero regrets about not having my dead PS4 Pro repaired and spending that money on a Switch instead.

There are just so many good options incoming that Macs losing bootcamp support for gaming is on the low end of my priorities list. Itís such a PITA for what is supposed to be a leisure activity anyway, and none of my Macs have ever really been powerful enough to truly capitalize on the feature.

Iíll gladly trade it away if it means that Macs get better at doing Mac poo poo.

Ok Comboomer fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jun 29, 2020

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





GATOS Y VATOS posted:

Yeah my 2015 MBP's motherboard died a few weeks ago and I was bummed because I can't afford a new laptop at this time and I was thinking about getting one this summer (well, before the world meltdown happened). The repair was cheaper than it was quoted as though, and they also gave me a new battery AND replaced the screen and keyboard as well so I figure I can get another 2 years out of this just fine. By then I guess I can look at what the apple chip macs are like. Nonetheless, I think even buying a mac now will still be fine for at last 5 years of life.

I've been elbow deep in more 2015 MBPs than I care to think about. That's not a repair, they moved your hard drive over to a working laptop. The only components that they didn't "replace" based on that list are the fans and maybe the speakers; a new top case (battery+keyboard) comes the speakers. Oh, and the mag safe board for the power connection, but those are about $29.

You got lucky. How many power cycles are on the new battery (in System Info under Power) ?

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017


Pivo posted:

I don't see why virtualization software wouldn't allow it, though.

Cause virtualization requires the same uARCH on host or guest, else we are talking emulation which is an entirely different can of worms. You could virtualize arm64 windows on arm64 mac but not AMD64 windows on arm64 mac.

Running live emulation requires a lot of extra compute power else you get a lot of slowdowns (compare doing snes emultation performance to n64 or gamecube).

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004




SlowBloke posted:

Cause virtualization requires the same uARCH on host or guest, else we are talking emulation which is an entirely different can of worms. You could virtualize arm64 windows on arm64 mac but not AMD64 windows on arm64 mac.

Running live emulation requires a lot of extra compute power else you get a lot of slowdowns (compare doing snes emultation performance to n64 or gamecube).

Might want to double check youíd read the post before solliloquizing.

I said there is no point to natively booting ARM Windows, especially since it would need to support Apple-specific SoC features to run decently. Lots of work for no benefit (no backwards compat with historical Windows software). But virtualizing ARM Windows? Why not. Some third party could offer that for whoever really wants it.

Pivo fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Jun 29, 2020

rufius
Feb 27, 2011

Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.


Ok Comboomer posted:

for gaming I think I could actually be ok with something like a more mature version of GeForce now, XCloud, Stadia, or a combination thereof. I imagine Apple probably feels like it sees the writing on the wall on that front. Like you can imagine that the Apple TV becomes a pretty decent home for at least one of them in the future too.



Parsec is actually really nice for streaming a Windows desktop to your Mac. I use it to play a few games on the couch.

Also nice that itís local network only.

stevewm
May 10, 2005


Bob Morales posted:

Is there any windows only software that has a Windows ARM port that people would die without?

No...

Windows on ARM really hasn't taken off at all. I think Windows RT really left a bad taste in everyone's mouth to ever try making Windows ARM devices again. Even though with Windows 10 on ARM, nearly all the issues and limitations that where in Windows RT are resolved.

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GATOS Y VATOS
Aug 22, 2002






Soiled Meat

mllaneza posted:

I've been elbow deep in more 2015 MBPs than I care to think about. That's not a repair, they moved your hard drive over to a working laptop. The only components that they didn't "replace" based on that list are the fans and maybe the speakers; a new top case (battery+keyboard) comes the speakers. Oh, and the mag safe board for the power connection, but those are about $29.

You got lucky. How many power cycles are on the new battery (in System Info under Power) ?

Oh yeah I figured as much for the motherboard swap (thatís what I refer to as a motherboard Ďrepairí). 19 cycles on the battery.

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