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Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

I'm confused by what your OS X is reporting as.

Also where did you buy it from? 10.7.4 isn't even in Developer Preview yet.
He said IOS, not OS X :haw:.

But just in case, dear user White1ce, if your Mac OS X is 10.7.x, where x is some number, then it's Lion.

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Feb 24, 2012

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Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

OperatorAce posted:

Mountain Lion... is the OS I feared OS X would become. I've been using OS X since it came out, and starkly defended it. However, I'm to the point now where I really dislike how it's turning out. On my Apple products, it's slower than the alternatives and is becoming less user friendly somehow.

Anyone else starting to feel the same way?

This is incredibly insightful and detailed, thank you. I as well think things I'm not used to and that are still in beta are less user friendly somehow because


I haven't seen a single operating system release by any vendor ever that wasn't somehow decried as "slower and less user friendly" by some people. At least give some details to make it worth responding to.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy
I've endured through several versions of Final Cut Pro X with Compressor (and Motion, but that's not relevant for this) since last summer, and it got to the point now where I can't render anything anymore because every single stinking job gets stuck somehow. (By "getting stuck" I mean things like not even starting to transcode or maybe getting to 5% and just sitting there in the share monitor and not having made any progress at all 38 hours later when I pull the plug on it.)

The latest versions that came out a few days ago didn't change that for me.

Since this doesn't seem to be a general problem, I'm sure it's something about my setup, probably crud that's left over from previous versions. Does anyone know a way how I can basically "reset" my installation?

(I know about deleting the subfolders of the "storage" folder to get rid of old jobs, but the new ones still get stuck at some point.)

Also, has anyone ever been able to get a Compressor cluster to work?

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Geek USSR posted:

Question for y'all. I admit I'm not searching the thread to find the answer, so if it's a dumb question feel free to show me out.

If I buy Final Cut Pro X through the Apple App Store, can I install it on more than one computer? I'm looking to put it on two laptops. Thanks for any insight.

I have it on two MBPs and an iMac and rendering gets stuck on all of them (but again, it may be my setup).

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Brady posted:

That doesn't mean that people don't use caps lock for a million other reasons (programming and passwords in my case). By your logic we should just remove the caps lock key all together.
I PROGRAM EVERYTHING IN COBOL USING AN EDITOR FROM THE 50S AND MY PASSWORD IS ABCDE.

If you really need caps lock for your programming language(s) or your passwords, I'm willing to bet that neither are any good.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Bob Morales posted:

Did they ever give a reason for it?

"Just store your poo poo in the cloud, plebes"

I totally need ZFS as a regular Mac user. It's not like the cloud is giving me any tangible benefits (who cares about being able to access my poo poo across several Macs, iPads and iPhones) when with ZFS my files wouldn't just somehow get stored, but instead get stored better.

What exact advantage would ZFS have for an average user? Would it even outweigh cloud storage? I'm interested.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

cbirdsong posted:

A lot. If you want to really dig in, these two episodes of John Siracusa's podcast get into it:

I'll dig in once I've heard about the tangible benefits. Besides, I would like to get an answer around here without having to take a three hour seminar or similar. I can do active research myself if I want to.

So far ZFS has been like IPv6 over the years - always the next thing that's going to come out real soon now (I remember first reading that about IPv6 in 1994 and about ZFS since at least 2005).

e: I'm trying to look at this from the perspective of an Apple MacBook user, not some guy running a high end datacenter or similar, because that's Apple's main focus. What tangible benefit does Joe Shmoe Macuser get from having ZFS over the Mac OS Extended filesystem?

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Apr 17, 2012

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

gregday posted:

Here's one. HFS+ is prone to silent corruption over time. This is true of most filesystems but it's particularly bad with HFS+. ZFS has end-to-end error checking all the time so that sort of thing is impossible.

Sounds good though I have to say that at least for me hardware corruption of the hard disk has always set in before file system corruption.

Martytoof posted:

There are very few end-user "WOW" features that boil down to "better data integrity". Where ZFS would shine would be in an OSX Server environment.

Right, so that'll help the 0.5% users (don't know what the real number is) of OS X who run the server version (which I'm doing on an iMac by the way and I think the admin interface is utter trash, but that's just me).

My problem wasn't so much with ZFS per se but with the condescending attitude that it's somehow more important than having cloud storage.

I feel reminded of the early "the iPad needs a USB port" discussions from 2010. It's a feature that sounds good from a nerdy feature-oriented standpoint but has no tangible value for most users.

I agree of course that ZFS would be nice to have.

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Apr 18, 2012

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

cbirdsong posted:

You should read up on it instead of assuming it's just a bunch of silly nerd complaints that don't matter.
You're misrepresenting what I said. To make it really clear:

Number of times me and other Mac users that I know have lost files/data in mysterious ways that wouldn't have happened on ZFS: 0.

Number of times me and other Mac users that I know have benefited from cloud storage: too high to count.

So maybe I can be forgiven not to value ZFS higher than cloud storage (it's a false and silly dichotomy anyway, because one doesn't preclude the other).

I get what ZFS is. I'm fully behind it. No need to portray me as an idiot. All I'm saying is that between it and cloud storage (again, no need to choose because both can coexist), cloud storage has more tangible benefits and therefore, if there is a need to focus on one of the two, cloud storage is it.

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Apr 18, 2012

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Martytoof posted:

Cloud storage and ZFS don't need to be mutually exclusive.
Right and I had emphasized that I never said that. I had only replied to someone who was pretending to make it look like that.

Martytoof posted:

So obviously this still isn't a huge amount of installations if compared to the number of users on a Mac in a non-enterprise environment, but it's a perfect example of why ZFS would be beneficial over cloud storage.

Very true (though I'd be interested in knowing how popular OS X Server really is).

At the danger of committing an appeal to authority fallacy, I'm sure there is a reason behind Apple not going with ZFS that is better than "being dumb" or "not seeing the benefits" and it's doubtful that they wouldn't have the resources. Maybe some legal considerations? The wikipedia page on ZFS is giving that as the reason for Linux not having it.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

evil_bunnY posted:

That's not what he said.

The point is that cloud storage will happily take files that your local filesystem's already corrupted. Generally, a local FS will always be a necessary pit-stop for your bits, so why not make it less sucky. They took DTrace for free, they could have done the exact same thing for ZFS.
Okay, since you absolutely have to resurrect this formerly happily concluded subject:

First, I am absolutely in favor of using ZFS. Second, I know that cloud storage and ZFS can coexist. The only reason that I discussed priorities between the two is because some people here made it look like Apple had made a choice between the two and that cloud storage is for buffoons.

Given that ZFS is better, I'd still be curious how much it could help mitigate the effects of corruption brought on by failing hardware in practice. From my own experience and based on a complete absence of "buzz" for ZFS in this regard, I'd expect not by much.

Also, next time when you present a 14 page paper in support of your viewpoint, at least quote a relevant part or give a page number.

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Apr 19, 2012

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

NESguerilla posted:

I'm playing the D3 beta and my 2009 macbook pro:

Processor 2.26 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Memory 8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce 9400M 256 MB
Software Mac OS X Lion 10.7.3

the game runs at like 2 FPS on bare minimum settings.

I've just tried this out on several computers, among them my 2009 MBP 13" with exactly those specs.

It's decent on the 13". Not smooth like butter, but playable. The very beginning of the game was really 2 FPS regardless of the settings, but also on my Nvidia 460 GTX Windows PC. My conclusion is therefore that they either messed up the beginning or that the game needs to build a cache of some sort before it starts to get decently playable.

In any event the graphics card is okay for this. I know it's old and all that but it's playable.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

KingEup posted:

The Diablo 3 thread indicates there is still a crippling mac specific bug.
Don't get too specific with descriptions, links or anything. I've actually tried this out and posted about it, but don't let that get in the way either.

What I can say after checking this out on 3 Macs (best one is an early 2011 MBP 17" with 16 gigs) and a Windows PC (as described further above) is that it ran like a slide show in the beginning, no matter what the hardware or OS was. My suspicion is that it's somehow related to the content which either needs to be downloaded when entities first appear or for which a cache needs to be built at that time. Maybe there's also some server interaction slowing things down.

On all platforms it got gradually better to the point of being reasonable within the first 10 minutes or so.

If there's a mac-specific bug, it's not crippling the game.

In any event, I guess this is due to letting people start playing before all the content is there and streaming the rest on demand.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Your link to the SA thread only leads to somebody saying that there's a "crippling Mac specific bug" without that person backing that up in any way, so your link is worthless. It's not like I'm trying to uphold the honor of the Mac at all cost (I'm not averse to playing on my PCs), it's just that I'd be interested to have some more info on that because PC and Mac work the same for me for this game.

You're right that you can't predict performance based on that beta yet. But it's all we have and it's probably going to be better than the beta. So it's kinda relevant that even the beta works better when you run it for a while and it gets all its content in place.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

mayodreams posted:

This was on a development Mac Pro I have on my desk for testing new applications before putting them into production. I can restore an image to it in like 10 minutes, so it is no big deal to break something.

This may be a very ignorant question, but what exactly are you testing before putting it into production here? Mountain Lion with FCP 7? ML as of right now is a developer preview, so the goal of Apple distributing this to developers is for them to test and adapt something they're developing. Even if ML dev preview 3 with the update we're currently on would have worked for FCP 7, you'd still have to test it with the GM version before any deployment. It's not ready to draw any conclusions from yet.

All that being said I'd highly doubt they're going to break a leg to support that old thing.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

mayodreams posted:

Apple is heavy handed with OS upgrades on new machines,

I know that's probably pissing you off, but that's one of the things I love most about Apple:
That there's no way for some lame-rear end institutions to run their 1995 software on a 2001 OS like it is so commonplace on Windows PCs. Which then results in requirements to other people along the lines of "please send us 'doc' files to put on our Apache 1.3.x web server because we can't open the files in Office 2003, given that we've never heard of the Office add-ons for that task". At least no way to do that crap on new hardware.

Their philosophy may be a little bit extreme to you, which I understand, but I think it's for the better. And hey, there's always Windows.

mayodreams posted:

so I would rather get a heads up on potential issues of running FCP7 on ML now

My point was just that even if everything would be great now, there's no real guarantee that that will be the case on final version of ML.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

mayodreams posted:

Their policy may work for consumers and some business, but it is unacceptable for enterprise use. Up until about a year and a half ago, we could still get XP on machines from CDW/Lenovo.

What you said is what I mean in a nutshell. Microsoft has one paradigm/philosophy or whatever you want to call it and Apple has another. They both work for different types of people. What I don't like about Microsoft is that as long as they are dominant, they tend to hold back progress. XP means 32-bit (because XP 64 isn't really supported), which means up to 4GB, which means a lot of people never got more than that. (I know that's slowly going away.) I also don't think it's good for Windows that people will still have to make their software work on XP until 2016 or similar.

Apple is pretty much the opposite. I'm also pretty sure they've never really had the goal of being big in the enterprise market. Their philosophy is "we know better what's good for you", and in the case of most people, I agree they know better. People tend to want better horse carriages, not cars.

mayodreams posted:

Instead of allowing you keep using the system you had, they completely cut it off and said gently caress you, use this new pile of poo poo that is buggy as hell and not ready for production. Oh, and Lion clients won't work with SL server out of the gate. That is just lovely implementation.

Right. Their philosophy at work again. Don't use FCP7, use FCPX (I know that debate). Don't use SL with Lion etc. etc. because it may not be fully supported anymore after a while.

The alternative for Apple would be to have to support everything from OS 8 or so upward on 68k, PowerPC and Intel. It's just not their thing.

mayodreams posted:

I know what you are getting at. I know that beta software changes before release. But a LOT of Lion bugs persisted for a couple of releases. I felt that Lion was the buggiest 10.x.0 release aside from maybe 10.0 or 10.1. The Wi-Fi issue on my Mid 2011 MBA didn't really get fixed for about 6 months after it came out. In my personal opinion, Apple needs to focus more on making the Mac more refined than iOS right now because they are slipping.

Judging from what I've read over the years, there have always been some hardware and software issues like that, so I'm not seeing the big difference.

mayodreams posted:

All of my production machines save 2 Mac Mini's in classrooms are still running Snow Leopard, which has only been in service for almost 2 years now. For post-production, we typically do not go bleeding edge on the OS.

It's been out for nearly 3 years now (you may of course have put it in service one year after that) and Lion isn't bleeding edge in Apple terms.

I don't mean this at all in a dismissive way, but judging from your comments and the situation you're describing, I'd just move everything to Windows. What you're looking for just isn't really supported by Apple.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

fleshweasel posted:

You don't see the difference between supporting Lion clients on SL servers out of the box and supporting OS 8 users on Mountain Lion servers?

You're twisting what I said around. One issue was the support of really old OS versions in general, the other is what kind of combinations they fully support, which is not the same issue.

I'm also not defending what they did in that case as great (and it was probably unintentional), but just said that it fits with their philosophy to not care too much about that.

Microsoft is all about continuity: Their OS had a slow evolution over the years and the main architecture they support has been the same line since MS-DOS 1.0.

Over a little bit less than the same amount of time, Apple has had three mutually incompatible processor architectures and two fundamentally different types of operating systems.

It's just obvious from that alone which of the two companies is more concerned with the enterprise and continuity.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

mayodreams posted:

They don't have to. There have been a number of high profile games that do not work on XP like Battlefield 3.
That's going to make such a splash in the "enterprise" world. There were also one or two Vista-only games when Vista came out. It didn't keep these guys from keeping on trucking.

mayodreams posted:

The world is moving away from XP because Microsoft got their head out of their asses and finally shipped a major version of windows (Vista) 6 years afterwords. Since then, they have put out Windows 7 two years after Vista, and are poised to deliver Windows 8 this year, again 2 years after the last major release.
For labeling others as trolls and people who don't know what they're talking about, you're not very straight on your facts: SL to Lion was 2 years. Vista came out 5 years after XP. 7 came 3 years after Vista and 8 will be 3 years after 7 (if indeed it will come out this year).

mayodreams posted:

The reason XP is sticking around is that some businesses have custom apps that only run on a 16/32bit OS, use older hardware (parallel/serial), or the like. Microsoft has even addressed the old software problem with the XP mode in Win 7 Pro/Ent. Their MO is not to bend over backwards and support everything back to Win98 as you suggest.
Selling computers with XP, a ten year old OS (at that point) in 2011 as you described counts as bending over backwards to me, at least when compared to Apple. I'm not seeing them supporting OS X 10.1 Puma (also from 2001) or delivering current OS versions with a VM for it.

mayodreams posted:

Every event/keynote for the last couple of years Apple has banged on about how much penetration they are getting in enterprise with iOS devices. Where iOS goes, the Mac will follow it. While Apple has stepped up Exchange and AD support in SL and especially Lion, they bungled Profile Manager which is necessary for group policy.
But look at the causality: At least in the stories I've seen published, iOS adoption didn't follow the availability of enterprise software. People (management and others) got the iPhone first and then asked for support.

mayodreams posted:

This is so extreme I think you are just trolling now. They supported PPC Macs for almost 4 years after they stopped selling them.
Vintage is 5, obsolete is 7. So the hardware was supported even longer. And yeah, saying something in clear terms is trolling.

mayodreams posted:

I know this is :siren: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE :siren: but I've run every release of the Mac OS since 7.1.
Hey not bad, the first I ran on my own Mac was 7.0.

mayodreams posted:

The 'big difference' as you put it is that you don't have a choice once Apple decides to put new hardware out and change the OS. Many professional applications like Avid Media Composer and Pro Tools do not qualify even point releases for months after a release.
So if you bought a Mac after an OS switch like last summer, you would be locked out of your applications until your vendor updates the software. And for Apple, this is a very arbitrary decision as obviously the hardware is supported in the older OS, they just don't want it to happen.
I love these makers of behemoth software that can't update their poo poo because they're checking OS version strings, aren't using the OSs APIs, or whatever else. And it's not arbitrary what Apple does: OS X really needed patches to work with Sandy Bridge and I've read similar things about Ivy Bridge. It would certainly have been possible to add these patches to previous versions of OS X, but that's not what Apple does.

mayodreams posted:

I'd love for them to put it in a tech note and let professionals like me back rev things without making it clear to the general public you can do that. Like I mentioned before, I had show stopping Wi-FI bug on my personal MBA that probably wouldn't have existed on SL.
Right, I'm not saying bugs like that don't exist. What I am saying is that my impression is that Apple isn't worse than Microsoft in that regard.

mayodreams posted:

Well, in the real world,
My world isn't real because I don't go with every bullshit from superiors.

mayodreams posted:

there are many other things to consider than just flippant ideas based on pure speculation.
Summing up what Apple has done over the years and extrapolating that into the future is "pure speculation".

mayodreams posted:

I'd love to move everything to Windows, but I've got 50 video and audio workstations, and there is no way we can update those in even 3 budget cycles. Never mind the fact that the faculty are STAUNCHLY against anything to do with Windows, so I have a political problem too. Having a mix of Mac and Windows workstations creates headaches for students using personal hard drives (they are required to) because what file system do you use? FAT32 is right out and so is NTFS. That leaves ExFAT, but that is slow as poo poo, and still doesn't support big enough files, or using Mac Drive or something similar on Windows, but that has it's own instability issues.

I suggest you leave the arm chair sys admin game because it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about at this point.
To sum it up: You're working for an institution that has unrealistic and unreasonable expectations, you're white-knighting all their poo poo and asking for seconds.

Additionally, from my side, this was a conversation about general observations and principles of what Apple and Microsoft do and how that fits with the staunchly conservative "enterprise" world. That this wouldn't necessarily solve all your organizational problems, particularly because you hadn't posted everything here, was clear from the beginning. I'm sure you have lots more unposted reasons to stay with your miserable setup.

You are working for an organization with issues that I wouldn't even want to work for if everything was on Windows already.

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 01:20 on May 9, 2012

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

mayodreams posted:

I really don't want to continue this derail, but that comment is so laughable that I have to ask if you are actually an IT professional, or just an internet superstar?
Can we stay on the issues?

Based on your viewpoints, I figured you'd find that laughable.
I see two approaches in all IT/programming or service industries in general: One is to do what the customers say and not question it too much, the other is to try to get to the bottom of what they would want when they have all the information. I have tried to point out that the first approach is more what Microsoft stands for and the second one is more what Apple stands for.

Seeing how you seem to be unhappy with Apple's hardware and software support for your enterprise, I don't think it's laughable or inappropriate to bring up these things, but that's just me. Anyway, I'll stop this "derail" about Apple in an Apple thread now if you let it rest too.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

DarkJC posted:

You're in for a shock when you find out how many organizations have "unrealistic and unreasonable expectations", by your strange definition.

My shock is well contained and that non-expert customers tend to have unrealistic expectations is well-known around the IT and software engineering fields (and all service industries really). We can debate endlessly which expectations exactly are unrealistic, but if you've ever developed software and have had customers request something that was not doable in reality, you'll know what I'm talking about.

mayodreams posted:

Vista Retail Release: 2007 (6 Years)

That's nice but the first released version of Vista, the volume license, came out in November of 2006 (check the same Wikipedia page you linked to) which you, of all people, with your "enterprise" focus should remember. Additionally, this isn't about the name of the year something came out in, but what number of years it would reasonably be rounded to (it's not like something coming out in december of year x and january of year x+1 would make a difference of a year). If a baby was born in December, it's not one year old in the next January.

mayodreams posted:

Your deflection just proves my point that you have no idea what are you talking about with regards to an actual corporate or enterprise environment.

That your whole approach to Apple is making you and your institution unhappy (and resort to "arguments" along the lines of "you're trolling/you're derailing/who are you?") has nothing to do with whether or not I ever worked in IT. And let's be honest - if I told you that I have, your next argument would be "A-ha! But that was not a corporate enterprise school with the management saying X and clinging to Y movie editing software with giving the students Z requirements, so you still don't know what you're talking about!". So I'm not going to take that bait.

As far as I'm concerned, this was a discussion about general principles and not of "my enterprise cred is better than yours, take that!".

Again, at this point I'm also well willing to take this to PMs or similar.

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 01:09 on May 10, 2012

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Boris Galerkin posted:

What the gently caress is wrong with the developers at Apple?

Ever heard of priorities? I would think that probably 2% of Mac users, if that, use two or more displays on a regular basis. And when they do, chances are that at least one of the two or more displays is not 1280x800 or something similar where full screen versus maximized really makes a major difference. The problem doesn't exist if you just run maximized.

I wouldn't get all riled up about a niche issue that has a workaround.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Ozmodiar posted:

I have a dumb question -

I have an older MacBook that cannot be updated past 10.6.8...but I've noticed a few apps on sale in the Mac AppStore, but I can't buy them because they're not compatible with the current version of OSX.

You mean they're incompatible with your version, not the current version (10.8), I suppose.


Ozmodiar posted:

I know when I see things on sale in the iOS AppStore for iPad, I can buy it through iTunes on my computer (I don't currently have an iPad, but I did previously...so I try to keep up on some stuff).

Is there a way I can do something similar with OSX?

This is not dumb, but cringe-inducing for two reasons:

1. Why would you want to be able to buy software you can't use?
2. If you still want to get the software, why don't you just buy something that can run a later version of OS X? Mactracker tells me that the latest MacBook that can't run Lion is from pre-late 2006 - that's not an "older MacBook", that's the oldest MacBook, and what Apple considers "Vintage".

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

ConfusedUs posted:

2) The machine frequently takes ages to wake up. Sometimes the screen has a grey overlay with a progress bar at the bottom. After that fills up, the screen is back to normal but the machine is completely unresponsive. It sometimes takes upwards of 2 minutes to wake from sleep. I could boot it faster than that.

I can only meekly say that I started having that issue a few months ago on my standard MBPs also and that it went away a while ago - not sure what caused it to go away again, but I'm good about updating everything.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

cbirdsong posted:

Before I got an iPad, I kept an eye out for 99¢ sales and had a large library of stuff to check out once I finally got one. That kind of price is much rarer on Mac App Store, though.

Right. I'm just thinking that either someone has money, or they don't. If money is not an issue, I'd buy the computer first and then get the apps (because having it tends to give me a better feel for what I need). If money is an issue, I'd still worry about buying the computer first, because who knows, I may otherwise have bought many apps I don't need.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Experto Crede posted:

So what's the deal with 8.3? Aren't we on 11 dev previews so far?

10.8.3: Coming just in time for Half Life 3.

It'll be out before I reach an uptime of 100 days on my rMBP on Thursday.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Martytoof posted:

I don't know how much behind the scenes stuff was updated between 10.7 to 10.8 but the front-facing stuff seems like Mountain Lion could easily have been released as a 10.7.6 update.

This is the Mac version of "Windows XYZ should just have been a service pack for Windows XYZ-1", which is just about as old as Windows itself. I don't mind frequent OS releases, they're an opportunity to drop some old ballast and introduce new features. The last time a major company spent five years on a new OS release, that didn't go so well.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

PRADA SLUT posted:

I'm using Gmail right now, but I'm wondering if there's some advantage to using iCloud instead for email?

There is an esoteric problem (and definitely a first world one) with Gmail that I keep hitting: It's "Too many simultaneous connections". Supposedly you can have 15 connections open before they shut you down. This is not as much as it sounds like because one email client may open several connections.

http://support.google.com/mail/answer/97150?hl=en

It's a hassle to have to fiddle with this and decide which ones of your devices are supposed to access the account. None of my other email accounts have this problem.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

the_lion posted:

letting them run a chuggier OS on their outdated machine is part of a plan

I guess either way it's always part of a plan: If it doesn't run the latest OS, it's part of a plan to make them buy something new in order to have the new features, and if it does, it's part of a plan to show them how slow it is on their obsolete machines. I guess the makers of operating systems just can't win against that kind of logic.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

DarkJC posted:

You should probably contact Apple, yeah. The reinstall should 'just work' on computers that came with whatever version of the OS you're trying to install.

That being said, the mid-2012 MBPs sure DIDN'T come with Mountain Lion, at least not when they first come out (I don't know if Apple updates this over the time they get sold).

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

plaz posted:

On that note, would taking it in to an Apple store achieve the same as calling Applecare, or are the Apple store employees just going to tell me to go away and phone Applecare?

I don't see where AppleCare would even come into this. You have a question about the App Store, not a repair. Contact support.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy
Securely deleted.

No, PCs and Mac keep everything they get from the Photo Stream over time. They can of course only import what's currently on the stream, but nothing is ever deleted. There is no "rest" on the stream, it's always only the last 1000 pictures. If you don't turn on your PC/Mac for a long time and get a gap, you better still have the pics in your camera roll.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Duckman2008 posted:

Unheard about this,

Interesting expression, are you trying to say you heard about this?

Duckman2008 posted:

but unsurprisingly the stock mail client sucks. Suggestions on the best app for email on mac? I have gmail.

It would be helpful to know what exactly "sucks" (I'd honestly be interested to know) and what you're trying to achieve. It's not like Mail.app is widely agreed to be horribly crippled and other mail clients are generally the Photoshop to Apple's MS Paint. I've so far met one person who complained that Mail.app doesn't work perfecto with Gmail categories and that's it.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

benisntfunny posted:

Mail.app (tiger, I haven't bothered with ML)

Sorry, but that's not in any way reasonable to talk about in 2013. You're four OS releases behind and you're using an unsupported OS. Mail.app releases come with OS releases. Basing a valuation of the current version of Mail.app on something this outdated is ridiculous. Have a nice day.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Cyne posted:

I'm guessing that was a typo and he meant to say Lion... hey, c'mon, all those big cats get confusing. :shobon:

Well in that case... Doesn't know what the OS is called... check. Can't fathom why one would want to have email from all their accounts in one place... check. Gives up after one thing doesn't work once... check. Still not impressed with the attitude.

I'll admit there's probably no machine that can run both Tiger and Mountain Lion outside of a first-generation Mac Pro or so, so what you said is kinda likely.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Binary Badger posted:

to use the 10.4.x version as the reason Mail sucks is like saying Macs can't run Windows, it makes you look outdated and out of touch.

I'd totally buy a Mac if the mouse had a right click and wouldn't look like a puck. :v:


benisntfunny posted:

Totally meant to say Lion. I don't know why I typed tiger.

Okay so that should support Gmail then. I have about 22000 messages on that account and I'm using IMAP. Not sure what your problem is. Maybe delete and recreate the account? E: Meaning in Mail.app of course.

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Jun 23, 2013

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

benisntfunny posted:

Yeah there's all sorts of plugins to do this and gmail also aggregates all accounts as well.

Hotmail/Live too?

Another aspect is that your space is limited to 10 GB (yes, more space is available, but that costs money and 20 GB is the ceiling even with that) and that deleting and archiving your email from Gmail has all kinds of weird issues, or at least had them about 2 months ago when I looked into that for someone. No thanks.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Kingnothing posted:

Been using build two for 10 minutes and already have 4 bug reports. Yay.

That is really good to know. It's not like this is an unreleased version of an operation that you're either under NDA for or have gotten illegally. Please post more details and screenshots here. Also post your Apple ID please, Apple may be interested.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

evil_bunnY posted:

10.x.0 releases are always pure garbage.

A developer preview is not a 10.x.0 release. You either don't know what a release is or you're using a pre-release version to confirm your preconceived idea that 10.9.0 will be "pure garbage". This is completely baseless and one of the problems NDAs address.

And I really don't see where at least the first versions of the last three OS X releases were "pure garbage". (I haven't used any earlier ones.) To me that would mean that they'd have major showstopper bugs, lack major functionality or similar. None of which was the case for most users. (Yes, any given version of any OS has some bugs, but that's not what you're on about.)

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Jun 26, 2013

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Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Choadmaster posted:

Windows 7 will not support USB 3 without additional drivers

Just as a suggestion @z06ck, if you're going to install Windows and can get the license via Dreamspark or whatever, do yourself a favor and install Windows 8.1 instead of 7. Yes I know the interface blablabla, but the features under the hood (USB 3 support cough cough among many others) are better and you can still have it act like Windows 7 for all day-to-day operations and maybe touch the freaking tiles once a week or so like I do. There's just this knee-jerk reaction of installing Windows 7 that I'm seeing too often. You have a new computer.

(Of course I don't even use bootcamp on any of my Macs :smug:)

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