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Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade



Xabi posted:

I have a late 2013 iMac thatís still going great - as soon as I got an SSD to replace the old fusion drive. However, what happens when macOS stops supporting my old computer (which will probably happen soon as it is near the bottom of the list of supported machines already)? Is it rendered useless? Should I get something new now while itís still alive and kicking and I might get some change for it?

The Late 2013 27-inch and 21.5 inch iMac are interesting in that they're the last two Mac desktops to use chiefly nVidia GPUs (except the low budget 21.5 inch which uses an Intel HD 4000.). Apple may have forbidden nVidia from creating drivers for the 10xx series, but they have to maintain drivers for the GT/GTX 640 / 660 / 670 / 680 / 750 / 770 / 780 because they are still being used in Macs that still enjoy Catalina support.

This is why there are people on YouTube hawking cheap nVidia GT 710 PCIe cards with passive coolers selling for around $100 or so as working in 2010 / 2012 MacPros as the native drivers in macOS from 10.13 up to the current 10.15 will recognize / support them.

If I were Apple and needed to make a cutoff point for new macOS supported GPUs, it'd be the 2015 models, as 2015 was pretty much the year that Apple totally stopped using NVIDIA GPUs across the board (no nVidias in Retina MacBook, Retina MacBook Pro, or iMacs of 2015 vintage, and the trashcan 2013 never had anything but AMD GPUs.)

I would wait and see what Apple announces in a month with regards to macOS 10.16, no cutesy codename for it yet, but if their bar is still 2012 machines and later, I wouldn't worry about it being unsupported for at least another year or two.

IMHO, unless they decided to suddenly whip up Metal 3 and have it require AMD GCN 1st gen architecture or Intel HD 5xxx or better, your Late 2013 should be safe no matter what they announce in a month at WWDC 2020. As was stated, you'll always have the patching community behind your back, assuming Apple doesn't deliberately find ways to render patching useless.

Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 20:51 on May 20, 2020

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Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

This post is good to go


No iMac Pro refresh rumor?

Pakistani Brad Pitt
Nov 28, 2004

Not as taciturn, but still terribly powerful...



How far can you go back and still get security patches/updates? That's the real OS Support cutoff to me -- I don't care about some new feature in Numbers or Safari

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade



That's software, but so far Apple seems to have stopped issuing security updates for 10.12 Sierra, it looks like 10.13 High Sierra is the currently oldest OS still receiving updates, last was Security Update 2020-002 which was issued in March of this year.

The Security Updates also still update the BootROM version, which includes Intel-issued microcode patches for CPUs vulnerable to Spectre / Meltdown.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Pakistani Brad Pitt posted:

How far can you go back and still get security patches/updates? That's the real OS Support cutoff to me -- I don't care about some new feature in Numbers or Safari

High Sierra (10.13) was a cut off point for a lot of Macs. That OS initially came out 2 years ago. It received a security patch 2 months ago. I'm not sure historically how long Apple supports its OS releases tho.

SUNKOS
Jun 4, 2016



Bob Morales posted:

No iMac Pro refresh rumor?

I looked on MacRumors and apparently the iMac Pro will have a refresh in the fourth quarter and feature mini-LEDs.

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




e: apparently I am behind on this news

Okay, I glanced at an article that caused me to do a double take and I swipe-edited it. A paraphrase of my original post below:

Its very cool that William Lam basically willed ESXi onto t2 machines but no legitimate security apparatus at anything bigger than the strappiest of startups is going to go for it in any scale. What happens if Apple re-signs the firmware with *insert California geographic feature here*

Crunchy Black fucked around with this message at 22:43 on May 20, 2020

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Seems like it would be possible to replace the T2 with a 'modded' micro controller if you simply wanted to get around Apple restrictions and could do without some of the features. I suppose if the demand is there although MacOS itself might not like that but as long as there are non T2 Macs out there MacOS needs to support running on them (and thus a hacked one).

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Fallom posted:

No, you have to download updated drivers from a guy who apparently does a lot of re-jiggering to get them to work: https://www.bootcampdrivers.com/

Thatís seriously frustrating. From a hardware standpoint the 5k has actually done really well in terms of holding up. The rx580 is still a really performant GPU, one that has arguably gotten way better with AMDís optimization push in the PC space. A two or three year old iMac should be a pretty decent 1080/1440 gaming box right now.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Are boot camp frame rates still double MacOS frame rates even for non virtualized DX games?

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Shaocaholica posted:

Are boot camp frame rates still double MacOS frame rates even for non virtualized DX games?

Depends. Metal/Vulkan can get MacOS within 5-15% but compared to openCL, yeah.

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010




Where the gently caress are new iMacs? Or Mac miniís that can run the XDR display?

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



LionArcher posted:

Where the gently caress are new iMacs? Or Mac miniís that can run the XDR display?

I too desire a computer that costs 20% of what the display costs. Tbf, the guts of a 5K iMac are like 30% of the value of the machine, inflated ram and storage prices and a high capacity to add both notwithstanding.

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



The iMac is perfect that's why it hasn't been updated and won't be updated ever again. Thank you goodbye.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







American McGay posted:

The iMac is perfect that's why it hasn't been updated and won't be updated ever again. Thank you goodbye.

I mean, it includes the screen, mouse, keyboard, and speakers!

Does a Mac Mini have those? Hell no!

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010




Mister Facetious posted:

I mean, it includes the screen, mouse, keyboard, and speakers!

Does a Mac Mini have those? Hell no!

Iím the weird geek mad that the keyboard that comes with a Mac pro is a different space Grey than the one you can buy separately. I want space grey Mac mini,(and keyboard) and an XDR on a vesa mount

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


iMacs are good but lol imagine Apple caring about their desktop line in tyool 2020

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







LionArcher posted:

Iím the weird geek mad that the keyboard that comes with a Mac pro is a different space Grey than the one you can buy separately. I want space grey Mac mini,(and keyboard) and an XDR on a vesa mount

I recall some YouTuber showing how space grey has had some slight variations over the years depending on the hardware.

Personally I'd love either gold or a wicked sick matte black/charcoal gray.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



LionArcher posted:

Iím the weird geek mad that the keyboard that comes with a Mac pro is a different space Grey than the one you can buy separately. I want space grey Mac mini,(and keyboard) and an XDR on a vesa mount

You never noticed that the white keys/cables never really matched with the black bezels and accents on the iMac?

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Do people not know about laptop cases or something? More often than not I see people carrying around $2000 MBPs in makeshift grocery bags, naked with the power adapter in knots, plastic bag, etc.

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Shaocaholica posted:

Do people not know about laptop cases or something? More often than not I see people carrying around $2000 MBPs in makeshift grocery bags, naked with the power adapter in knots, plastic bag, etc.

Itís the same thing with the iPhone thread the buy a $1000 phone but come in asking about the cheapest possible case.

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002



Shaocaholica posted:

Do people not know about laptop cases or something? More often than not I see people carrying around $2000 MBPs in makeshift grocery bags, naked with the power adapter in knots, plastic bag, etc.
Most people donít have an organization fetish.

Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002



Pillbug

Speaking of cases, what's a good protective... thingy for a new 13" MBP? I don't plan on ever taking this thing out of the house (have an iPad for that), but I do want some protection if I accidentally drop it while moving it from room to room.

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Tayter Swift posted:

Speaking of cases, what's a good protective... thingy for a new 13" MBP? I don't plan on ever taking this thing out of the house (have an iPad for that), but I do want some protection if I accidentally drop it while moving it from room to room.

I really donít feel like youíd need one to be honest.

existential anger
Jun 4, 2012



I'm not familiar with Macs and the internet in general likes to give conflicting answers. I'm going to ask a few probably stupid questions here:
  • How much RAM is sufficient for Mac OS if the most you're going to do at once is have Safari with ~10 tabs, a few PDF documents, some sort of audio player and Microsoft Excel open at the same time?
  • I'm looking at the base Macbook Air, is a 10th gen i3 sufficient in this day and age? Just how hot/noisy does the thing get when web browsing/word processing/watching video? I don't care about render benchmarks, I will never do that sort of thing.
  • If 16gb of RAM is required, the price difference between a base 2020 Macbook Pro (two TB3 ports) with 16gb of RAM is $1984 AUD compared to $1709 AUD for the 2020 i3 Macbook Air with 16gb of RAM. Is there any reason why I would not opt for the Macbook Pro considering it has a better active cooling solution, two extra cores and the touch bar?

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Tayter Swift posted:

Speaking of cases, what's a good protective... thingy for a new 13" MBP? I don't plan on ever taking this thing out of the house (have an iPad for that), but I do want some protection if I accidentally drop it while moving it from room to room.

Using both hands to carry it.

Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002



Pillbug

MarcusSA posted:

I really donít feel like youíd need one to be honest.
Maybe I'm just paranoid because this is the first time I've had a laptop in a decade. I still keep poking the screen on occasion.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Tayter Swift posted:

Speaking of cases, what's a good protective... thingy for a new 13" MBP? I don't plan on ever taking this thing out of the house (have an iPad for that), but I do want some protection if I accidentally drop it while moving it from room to room.

I really like the incase hardshells. Theyíre pretty good insurance against minor dings and mild drops. At least the damage will be minimized.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Tayter Swift posted:

Maybe I'm just paranoid because this is the first time I've had a laptop in a decade. I still keep poking the screen on occasion.

Herschel Anchor sleeve is my go-to for iPad and MacBook of all kinds. Prices range from $15-$40 depending on where youíre buying, when, whether the specific pattern is on sale, etc.

Wanna go cheaper than that and Iíd recommend a no-name/Amazon Basics felt case if you just wanna protect the finish or pop it in a bag.

Hardshells are a waste and probably contribute to scratching up your machine. Iíve had my MBP nude for almost 7 years and the finish is perfectly fine. The secret is that it goes into a bag or sleeve if itís not on a desk/table/couch.


Thereís a little bit of debate ongoing about dual core vs quad core Air but the general recommendation right now is to go for the mid-tier i5 in the Air instead of the i3 and bump up to 16gb of RAM if you can afford it if only for futureproofing.

If you can afford to jump up to the base MBP do that. Even with the older cpu it seems to be a better machine in every single way, although you might not necessarily see that benefit all of the time.

Sri.Theo
Apr 16, 2008


existential anger posted:


[*]If 16gb of RAM is required, the price difference between a base 2020 Macbook Pro (two TB3 ports) with 16gb of RAM is $1984 AUD compared to $1709 AUD for the 2020 i3 Macbook Air with 16gb of RAM. Is there any reason why I would not opt for the Macbook Pro considering it has a better active cooling solution, two extra cores and the touch bar?
[/list]

Donít get your hopes up about the Touch Bar. If Iím using my laptop on my lap I end up touching it by mistake relatively often.

Pumprag
Jan 29, 2013



Reading the notebookcheck review of the MBA, it seems like the base Pro is a much better deal than the Air for only a marginal increase in price.
Is that correct? Or did they present the MBA in a bad light because they did their testing in windows?

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Daniel Bryan posted:

iMacs are good but lol imagine Apple caring about their desktop line in tyool 2020

are you talking about the same 2020 where a lot of office workers are still working from home?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

This post is good to go


Shaocaholica posted:

Do people not know about laptop cases or something? More often than not I see people carrying around $2000 MBPs in makeshift grocery bags, naked with the power adapter in knots, plastic bag, etc.

Or ones that have cartwheeled across concrete several times.

SOME DINGS ON THE CORNER

SUNKOS
Jun 4, 2016



Daniel Bryan posted:

iMacs are good but lol imagine Apple caring about their desktop line in tyool 2020

This is the year Apple does a big revamp of their iMac line apparently. There's a lot of sources indicating a new 23" model (same size as 21" just with smaller bezel) and Apple ditching Intel processors and integrating their own ARM-based chips across the entire range so the whole Apple ecosystem is unified. The plan is that going forward developers will only need to create one app that works on iPhone/iPad/Mac because they all use the same hardware, and Apple's chips are more advanced than what Intel has to offer.

This is why I'm looking at getting the latest iMac before the refresh, since I use Bootcamp a lot and the current models seem to be the last ones using Intel chips.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



SUNKOS posted:

This is the year Apple does a big revamp of their iMac line apparently. There's a lot of sources indicating a new 23" model (same size as 21" just with smaller bezel) and Apple ditching Intel processors and integrating their own ARM-based chips across the entire range so the whole Apple ecosystem is unified. The plan is that going forward developers will only need to create one app that works on iPhone/iPad/Mac because they all use the same hardware, and Apple's chips are more advanced than what Intel has to offer.

This is why I'm looking at getting the latest iMac before the refresh, since I use Bootcamp a lot and the current models seem to be the last ones using Intel chips.

Support your claim that Apple is looking to switch over the ďentire rangeĒ of Macs this year please. That is a very tall order, even for daddy warbucks apple

Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

It's your HPV, Veronica. I'm just carrying it.

SUNKOS posted:

This is the year Apple does a big revamp of their iMac line apparently. There's a lot of sources indicating a new 23" model (same size as 21" just with smaller bezel) and Apple ditching Intel processors and integrating their own ARM-based chips across the entire range so the whole Apple ecosystem is unified. The plan is that going forward developers will only need to create one app that works on iPhone/iPad/Mac because they all use the same hardware, and Apple's chips are more advanced than what Intel has to offer.

This is why I'm looking at getting the latest iMac before the refresh, since I use Bootcamp a lot and the current models seem to be the last ones using Intel chips.

There is no way we're getting ARM Macs until well into 2021 or later, especially since Coronavirus has delayed most new production development. None of the rumors swirling around say Apple is going with ARM for laptops at any point this year, let alone iMacs or other desktops that will see new architecture much later than Macbooks will.

SUNKOS
Jun 4, 2016



I'm going off MacRumors reports about the new iMacs. It says they're moving them over to ARM-based CPUs this year with the goal of unifying everything. It doesn't talk about other Macs (e.g. MacBooks/Mini etc.) which is why I only mentioned the range of iMacs. The stated reasoning behind it however does indicate that other Macs will see the switch eventually as well, but Apple's starting with iMacs for 2020. From what I read even Intel themselves are preparing for a drop this year when Apple makes the announcement. Maybe they're all wrong, though? I dunno, but they seem to be reliable sources who've got a lot right before so

If Coronavirus has had such an impact on development however then I doubt we'd see any new iMacs at all this year. It would seem crazy for Apple to waste resources on a refresh with the new Intel chip when they're close to a switchover they're focused on. They're not afraid of keeping people waiting for a refresh either, like the Mac Mini/Pro demonstrated. At the end of the day we could speculate forever, I just saw that they're planning to switch iMacs to ARM in 2020 and it doesn't seem far fetched to me personally. I'm sure we'll find out what's up over the next few months.

Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002



Pillbug

Shaocaholica posted:

I really like the incase hardshells. Theyíre pretty good insurance against minor dings and mild drops. At least the damage will be minimized.

I'll take a look, thanks


Ok Comboomer posted:

Hardshells are a waste and probably contribute to scratching up your machine. I’ve had my MBP nude for almost 7 years and the finish is perfectly fine. The secret is that it goes into a bag or sleeve if it’s not on a desk/table/couch.

Or not. Horp.

Pakistani Brad Pitt
Nov 28, 2004

Not as taciturn, but still terribly powerful...



My MBP goes into a backpack with a padded laptop slot (that is probably thick enough to hold this laptop that I had in college circa 1999):



It's fine.

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Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Tayter Swift posted:

I'll take a look, thanks


Or not. Horp.

i have never had the aluminum scratch noticably and i'm not particularly gentle with my laptops since I use them until they are worthless


I did have it dent once but that won't be stopped by a slim case


a screen protector is probably more reasonable but even then i don't bother

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