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SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017


Binary Badger posted:

https://9to5mac.com/2020/06/27/ubiquiti/

Basically, if some managers at Apple had listened to one good Wi-Fi engineer, I'd bet Airports would still be a business for Apple..

I do remember that one feature of the OG Apple Airports was a slider in Airport Utility that let you select broadcast power in terms of percent.. maybe that's the best Pera could do under unimaginative management.

Hmmm ubnt code quality makes ios13 look like lunar lander quality code, it's as far as the golden standard of "it just works" as it could be. It's the first networking equipment firm i've used that released several public firmwares that nuked basic stuff like teaming or vlan and just shrugged.

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Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

Binary Badger posted:

https://9to5mac.com/2020/06/27/ubiquiti/

Basically, if some managers at Apple had listened to one good Wi-Fi engineer, I'd bet Airports would still be a business for Apple..

I do remember that one feature of the OG Apple Airports was a slider in Airport Utility that let you select broadcast power in terms of percent.. maybe that's the best Pera could do under unimaginative management.

Ubiquity is one of those things that’s almost good but in many ways really bad

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

SlowBloke posted:

Hmmm ubnt code quality makes ios13 look like lunar lander quality code, it's as far as the golden standard of "it just works" as it could be. It's the first networking equipment firm i've used that released several public firmwares that nuked basic stuff like teaming or vlan and just shrugged.

Plus their “support” forums are full of people posting “turn your arp aging to five seconds” over and over to “fix” wireless issues

Godzilla07
Oct 4, 2008



Binary Badger posted:

https://9to5mac.com/2020/06/27/ubiquiti/

Basically, if some managers at Apple had listened to one good Wi-Fi engineer, I'd bet Airports would still be a business for Apple..

I do remember that one feature of the OG Apple Airports was a slider in Airport Utility that let you select broadcast power in terms of percent.. maybe that's the best Pera could do under unimaginative management.

The author seems to ignore that Apple has nearly $200 billion dollars on hand and could acquire Ubiquiti if they felt like it. Eero made more sense for Apple to acquire but Amazon beat them to the punch

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

aaaaaaaaaa
AAAAAAAAAAA
HHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!




Bob Morales posted:

Plus their “support” forums are full of people posting “turn your arp aging to five seconds” over and over to “fix” wireless issues

Yeah Ubiquiti is the polar opposite of Apple's "Just Works" ethos

smax
Nov 9, 2009



Decided to take the plunge on some new Mac hardware today. Upgrading my wife’s 2012 MBA to a new 13” MBP ($200 off at Best Buy) and upgrading my 2012 Mini to a 2018 i5 one (on clearance at Frys, not a screaming deal but decent for my needs).

I’m hoping that buying intel based macs so late in their life cycle doesn’t bite me long term, but I’m not too worried about it. I’ll give it a couple years to replace my 2015 15” MBP and see how the ARM transition goes.

GoatSeeGuy
Dec 26, 2003

What if Jerome Walton made me a champion?




Fun Shoe

FCKGW posted:

Yeah Ubiquiti is the polar opposite of Apple's "Just Works" ethos

As someone who just replaced my Airport Extreme this week (The range in fact is much better with the new router) this kinda hurts since everything I've heard about their hardware is great- pair that with (Non-iOS 11, 13, Catalina) Apple polish and support and even though routers don't offer the typical "Apple Margins" it could be a great starting point for that wireless future they talk about. Homepods and Apple TVs that work as mesh nodes? Personal iCloud? Various Homekit devices?

I may just be dreaming because working with the Nighthawk app sucks.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


Binary Badger posted:

https://9to5mac.com/2020/06/27/ubiquiti/

Basically, if some managers at Apple had listened to one good Wi-Fi engineer, I'd bet Airports would still be a business for Apple..

I do remember that one feature of the OG Apple Airports was a slider in Airport Utility that let you select broadcast power in terms of percent.. maybe that's the best Pera could do under unimaginative management.

I mean, the reason Apple dropped AirPort was that management decided they didn't want to be in that business. It wasn't that they'd lost the One Genius Engineer who was so junior he was just a test engineer clever enough to suggest pushing FCC broadcast power limits to the edge of compliance and beyond. not actually a brilliant insight and there were probably actual arguments against it but you won't get that kind of nuance from an article written to polish Robert Pera's knob

pzy
Feb 20, 2004

Da Boom!


This is forever my favorite Ubiquiti story, and I like their gear:

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/securi...er-scam-n406201

Basically someone (badly) impersonated Pera via e-mail and an underling decided it was ok to wire $47 million to them

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now


Cybernetic Crumb

quote:

Robert thought that boosting their power would increase their range to help reach areas that traditional ISPs didn’t cover. His managers at Apple ignored the idea. He decided to build is own product. After spending a few years working on it during nights and weekends, he set out on his own and formed Ubiquiti.

My understanding of Apple’s side-project policies around intellectual property and competition must be greatly flawed, because I thought that sort of thing would get you assassinated in the night.

japtor
Oct 28, 2005
WELL ARNT I JUST MR. LA DE FUCKEN DA. oh yea and i suck cocks too


quote:

Imagine if Robert had stayed at Apple and Ubiquiti was part of the Apple enterprise brand? They could have offered a low-cost networking solution for enterprise customers.
Sure that seems entirely believable, nothing screams Apple like low cost enterprise solutions.

Yeast
Dec 25, 2006

$1900 Grande Latte


I replaced an Airport system with Amplifi HD - Ubiquiti's consumer line.

It's really, really good.

Empress Brosephine
Mar 31, 2012


Winner of the "Poor Games Poster" avatar.

Any of you have suggestions at to what to do with two mint 2008 imacs?

I also have a like new 2015 iMac but it goes insanely slow. I think it has to do with the hdd. If I put a SSD in it it should improve? Thing has 12 gigs of ram

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

Empress Brosephine posted:

Any of you have suggestions at to what to do with two mint 2008 imacs?
Find someone to give them to or box them up and store them.

Empress Brosephine posted:

I also have a like new 2015 iMac but it goes insanely slow. I think it has to do with the hdd. If I put a SSD in it it should improve? Thing has 12 gigs of ram
Yes an SSD will make that machine feel like it should have. They should have never put HDD's in those.

frogbs
May 5, 2004
Well well well

Yeast posted:

I replaced an Airport system with Amplifi HD - Ubiquiti's consumer line.

It's really, really good.

Yeah, their Amplifi stuff is bulletproof in my experience, for home stuff especially. I had a home setup with their Edgerouter and a few UAPS and had to mess with it constantly, plus clients wouldn’t handoff between access points well at all. With the Amplifi stuff it’s all seamless and I haven’t had to touch it since install. Highly recommended!

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



Looks like the Rosetta virtualization comes with a roughly 25% performance hit.

https://twitter.com/MacRumors/statu...614960671985664

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007



Grimey Drawer

American McGay posted:

Looks like the Rosetta virtualization comes with a roughly 25% performance hit.

https://twitter.com/MacRumors/statu...614960671985664

Important to note.

quote:

Looks like these are only running on 4 cores, probably because apple didn’t bother to teach the thread scheduler how to optimize for a12z which will never be in any real product.

quote:

This is a beta version of Rosetta 2 running on 2 year old hardware. This is why they didn't want benchmarks.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



I read the MacRumors thread too, it's kind of adorable watching some posters on that forum flip out about the low benchmarks and not seem to understand that Geekbench is running emulated x86 code or something.

quote:

Apple needs to do better than this for desk top performance. I am a little scared now.

quote:

Really underwhelming results, makes me wonder if it was the right time for Apple to do this, or maybe they should have waited a few more years for the silicon team to catch up to Intel, or maybe they should have just gone with AMD.

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




Ubiquiti is good if you're willing to play in their ecosystem. Much like Apple.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017


Crunchy Black posted:

Ubiquiti is good if you're willing to play in their ecosystem. Much like Apple.



I bought in fully in the unifi system (2x shd, usg, us8-60w, ck1) and i've started throwing them away well before the warranty was over, wifi performance is not stellar and barely more reliable then my old reflashed merakis and the usg was nothing but a bottleneck after getting ftth. Their design scenario is honestly best covered by orbi/eero (i don't want to know how it works, just work) where the mesh systems tends to have a way less flakier firmware.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

Netflix: HEY WE HAVE NEW SERIES
Me: I don't watch much series TV
Netflix: HERE'S AN AD FOR ONE SIX SECONDS AFTER THE LAST SHOW YOU JUST WATCHED
Me: No, man, quit it
Netflix: HOW ABOUT ANOTHER EDGY DOCUMENTARY
Me: Can I watch a movie from the seventies
Netflix: NO

MarcusSA posted:

Important to note.

>> Looks like these are only running on 4 cores, probably because apple didn’t bother to teach the thread scheduler how to optimize for a12z which will never be in any real product.


Has it been conformed that Apple will be using all the CPUs in its BIG.little ARM configurations simultaneously? That's non-trivially difficult kernel work. People freaking out about beta Rosetta 2 performance on a two year old iPad chip is... well, a lot like anyone taking an x86 OS X development box with a Pentium 4 as a reflection of a final product. Better things await.

Tesh
Jun 30, 2002

If humans were cookies, I'd be the cookie monster.

I'm considering buying a MacBook for the first time and I'm turning to you guys for advice. I would be using this as an all-in-one machine, for work (mostly word processing and web), grad school, web design work, and multimedia (photo editing in Lightroom, audio editing for podcasts, and maybe some light video editing - nothing crazy in that regard). Could I get away with a 13 in MBP with 16gb RAM to suit my needs?

Currently using a Surface Pro 3 with 128gb SSD and 4gb RAM. Ready to move on.

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




Hasturtium posted:

Has it been conformed that Apple will be using all the CPUs in its BIG.little ARM configurations simultaneously? That's non-trivially difficult kernel work. People freaking out about beta Rosetta 2 performance on a two year old iPad chip is... well, a lot like anyone taking an x86 OS X development box with a Pentium 4 as a reflection of a final product. Better things await.

Yeah I feel like the twitter freakout is overblown because of this. They literally took old rear end cast off iPad chips they essentially got for free and turned them into a "DevKit."

idk what the consensus is or if Apple feels like they can get xcode into a state where it can auto-optimize for BIG.little (lol they can't) but that seems to be what they're driving towards. A 25% performance delta between a shrink or improvement let alone thermal optimizations is EASY to do for Apple.

SlowBloke posted:

I bought in fully in the unifi system (2x shd, usg, us8-60w, ck1) and i've started throwing them away well before the warranty was over, wifi performance is not stellar and barely more reliable then my old reflashed merakis and the usg was nothing but a bottleneck after getting ftth. Their design scenario is honestly best covered by orbi/eero (i don't want to know how it works, just work) where the mesh systems tends to have a way less flakier firmware.

I'm probably too deep in to care by this point, unfortunately.

ratbert90
Feb 12, 2009
JUST FUCKING STOP, JESUS H. CHRIST


Apple: It’s a dev kit with an iPad processor and we haven’t really optimized anything.

Devs: Well poo poo, look at these benchmarks in x86 emulation mode! This sucks!

Escape Goat
Jan 30, 2009


ratbert90 posted:

Apple: It’s a dev kit with an iPad processor and we haven’t really optimized anything.

Devs: Well poo poo, look at these benchmarks in x86 emulation mode! This sucks!

Meanwhile,

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/2...-surface-pro-x/

quote:

As developer Steve Troughton-Smith points out, the two-year-old A12Z in the ‌Mac mini‌ outperforms Microsoft's Arm-based Surface Pro X in Geekbench performance, running x86_64 code in emulation faster than the Surface Pro X can run an Arm version natively.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

Netflix: HEY WE HAVE NEW SERIES
Me: I don't watch much series TV
Netflix: HERE'S AN AD FOR ONE SIX SECONDS AFTER THE LAST SHOW YOU JUST WATCHED
Me: No, man, quit it
Netflix: HOW ABOUT ANOTHER EDGY DOCUMENTARY
Me: Can I watch a movie from the seventies
Netflix: NO

Crunchy Black posted:

Yeah I feel like the twitter freakout is overblown because of this. They literally took old rear end cast off iPad chips they essentially got for free and turned them into a "DevKit."

idk what the consensus is or if Apple feels like they can get xcode into a state where it can auto-optimize for BIG.little (lol they can't) but that seems to be what they're driving towards. A 25% performance delta between a shrink or improvement let alone thermal optimizations is EASY to do for Apple.


I'm probably too deep in to care by this point, unfortunately.

A Twitter freakout? Overblown? Well I never

As someone whose only investment in the platform is an eight year old Retina Macbook Pro and an iPhone SE, I am excited to see where Apple goes with their own hardware. Assuming it'll automatically stomp Intel and AMD IPC flat is probably premature - I just don't buy that Apple's going to have answers to all the engineering issues those companies have encountered - but I'm already considering grabbing an ARM Mini as the family PC.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


Hasturtium posted:

Has it been conformed that Apple will be using all the CPUs in its BIG.little ARM configurations simultaneously? That's non-trivially difficult kernel work. People freaking out about beta Rosetta 2 performance on a two year old iPad chip is... well, a lot like anyone taking an x86 OS X development box with a Pentium 4 as a reflection of a final product. Better things await.

Yes, it has been confirmed. This WWDC video on Apple Silicon Mac architecture makes it clear that all cores can be live at the same time, there are APIs to give the kernel hints about what kind of core to run each thread on, and more.

Overview of asymmetric multiprocessing starts at 1m54s, more details at 4m40s.

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/10686/

And yeah the freakout is dumb but predictable.

Pakistani Brad Pitt
Nov 28, 2004

Not as taciturn, but still terribly powerful...



Honestly a 25% performance loss through a translation layer to maintain compatibility while doing something as major as switching cpu architecture doesn't even strike me as that bad, even if it was the final optimized tally. Provided of course that the performance for new ARM software is loving awesome and that major things like Office and Photoshop transition to that at or near launch.

Everyone's use case is different but I'm fairly certain most of the software I run could take a 25% hit and it wouldn't be the end of the world, video games notwithstanding, but I just don't think you can count on Apple of all people to cater to video gamers -- I'm largely happy with my Switch/PS4 for that.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Pakistani Brad Pitt posted:

Honestly a 25% performance loss through a translation layer to maintain compatibility while doing something as major as switching cpu architecture doesn't even strike me as that bad, even if it was the final optimized tally. Provided of course that the performance for new ARM software is loving awesome and that major things like Office and Photoshop transition to that at or near launch.

Everyone's use case is different but I'm fairly certain most of the software I run could take a 25% hit and it wouldn't be the end of the world, video games notwithstanding, but I just don't think you can count on Apple of all people to cater to video gamers -- I'm largely happy with my Switch/PS4 for that.

Even though we've seen evidence of Adobe stuff running natively, if I was to name two things that I would suspect would run in a virtualized wrapper of sorts it would be Office and Photoshop.

Pakistani Brad Pitt
Nov 28, 2004

Not as taciturn, but still terribly powerful...



EL BROMANCE posted:

Even though we've seen evidence of Adobe stuff running natively, if I was to name two things that I would suspect would run in a virtualized wrapper of sorts it would be Office and Photoshop.

You're probably right. For my needs, if office ran in a 25%-performance hit virtualized wrapper I still wouldn't care. I use it for making basic-rear end spreadsheets and powerpoints. I don't run Photoshop (or any Adobe software) but given what it does maybe a 25% hit would be more of a kick in the balls there.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Those benchmarks are extremely impressive IMO. Getting near identical performance to a i3 Mac Mini with:

- Benchmark software running in emulation
- An early version of a processor that is not as powerful as the final version
- The benchmark can't (apparently) even take full capacity of this tablet processor

This is basically worst-case scenario, a version of a product that will be significantly less powerful than the released version running non-native code (when most of the apps people use will be native). If anything I'm more bullish on the prospects of this than before.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



It's going to be really good. Even the devkits are fooling people into thinking those are native benchmarks.

kefkafloyd
Jun 8, 2006

What really knocked me out
Was her cheap sunglasses

Hasturtium posted:

Has it been conformed that Apple will be using all the CPUs in its BIG.little ARM configurations simultaneously? That's non-trivially difficult kernel work. People freaking out about beta Rosetta 2 performance on a two year old iPad chip is... well, a lot like anyone taking an x86 OS X development box with a Pentium 4 as a reflection of a final product. Better things await.

Yes, they will, Check out the WWDC videos about making Universal apps and porting to Apple Silicon and they discuss what the procedures are for leveraging the new thread affinities. The TL:DR is that if you don't optimize, Apple will guess based on your old thread priorities, but you can tell the scheduler about your power demands WRT whether you can be shuffled off to a little core.

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




Which is why I'm optimistic but bearish.

Desktop Devs probably aren't going to want to adopt to mobile-style thinking wrt BIG.little etc, but I guess here we are.

Yeast
Dec 25, 2006

$1900 Grande Latte


Rosetta can only run on half the cores in the Dev Kit, is emulating X86, and is still faster than a surface X running arm natively.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

aaaaaaaaaa
AAAAAAAAAAA
HHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!




Tesh posted:

I'm considering buying a MacBook for the first time and I'm turning to you guys for advice. I would be using this as an all-in-one machine, for work (mostly word processing and web), grad school, web design work, and multimedia (photo editing in Lightroom, audio editing for podcasts, and maybe some light video editing - nothing crazy in that regard). Could I get away with a 13 in MBP with 16gb RAM to suit my needs?

Currently using a Surface Pro 3 with 128gb SSD and 4gb RAM. Ready to move on.

Absolutely, should be just fine for that kind of workload.

Just make sure you get the 2020 model that has the good keyboard and not an older model. Best Buy and Costco both have sales going on right now as well as Apple edu pricing.

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

I'm kind of excited to see what kind of Apple silicon-based MacBook I'll be getting to replace this mid-2012 air.

Daniel Bryan
May 23, 2006

GOAT


iBook Air you mean

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007


You're Goddamned right I support Medicare for all.







Yeast posted:

Rosetta can only run on half the cores in the Dev Kit, is emulating X86, and is still faster than a surface X running arm natively.



It also ran an x86 game (Tomb Raider 2013) at a higher framerate, resolution, and graphical settings than a current 10th gen 13" MBP chip using Iris Plus and running Win10 in Bootcamp mode can do.

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Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Tesh posted:

I'm considering buying a MacBook for the first time and I'm turning to you guys for advice. I would be using this as an all-in-one machine, for work (mostly word processing and web), grad school, web design work, and multimedia (photo editing in Lightroom, audio editing for podcasts, and maybe some light video editing - nothing crazy in that regard). Could I get away with a 13 in MBP with 16gb RAM to suit my needs?

Currently using a Surface Pro 3 with 128gb SSD and 4gb RAM. Ready to move on.

Yup, but I’d advise you to go for the pricier 4 Port model with the newer 10th gen Core chips rather than the older 8th gen. Once you add on storage and bump the RAM to 16gb, you’re within about $200 anyway so you might as well pony up for the additional speed, better/quieter cooling, better GPU, better speakers, and extra thunderbolt ports.

But if you’re keen, and your budget can go even higher, tricking out a 13” puts you in shooting distance of a base 16” (maybe another $100-$200, depending on discounts and what features) which is a substantially more capable machine but you trade off on the size and, obviously, you pay more.

Apple are the masters of upselling

Edit- and also what I’m saying is why have a portable 4-core laptop when you can have a less portable 6 or 8-core laptop and an iPad Pro? Bing bong so simple

Ok Comboomer fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jun 29, 2020

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