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Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




Subjunctive posted:

The kidís 2016 MBA has a tab key thatís basically dead so I guess itís next, but I donít know if itís covered by the Apple butterfly apology tour.

https://support.apple.com/keyboard-...r-mac-notebooks

Sorry, nope, only the 2018/2019 MBAs qualify, you may just have to pony up for a new keyboard.

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Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




japtor posted:

You can rig TB output for a PC with the $50-100 TB cards, although might be TB3 only and need another adapter on top of that, and hope it all works right.



This is *insanely* not true due to how Intel used to license Thunderbolt.

Please go buy the gigabyte branded card on Amazon, install it on a motherboard without an integrated TB controller and tell me how well it works.

LODGE NORTH
Jul 30, 2007






キャンプ。




Subjunctive posted:

Sent my 2018 MBP in for a keyboard replacement and now it is glorious to type on and Iím so happy itís like the good old days.

The kidís 2016 MBA has a tab key thatís basically dead so I guess itís next, but I donít know if itís covered by the Apple butterfly apology tour.

It's not, as Binary Badger pointed out, but it's worth noting, if you live near an Apple Store, that maybe half the times you just stroll in on a lazy day, they pencil you in for a quick appointment and just fix it or find some way to make things better for you. A friend of mine had his phone replaced out of warranty just because, I'm guessing, he seemed like an innocent dumb guy.

LODGE NORTH fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Sep 6, 2020

japtor
Oct 28, 2005
WELL ARNT I JUST MR. LA DE FUCKEN DA. oh yea and i suck cocks too


Crunchy Black posted:

This is *insanely* not true due to how Intel used to license Thunderbolt.

Please go buy the gigabyte branded card on Amazon, install it on a motherboard without an integrated TB controller and tell me how well it works.
Surprisingly well for this guy, the newer Titan Ridge controller/card seems to be the key:
https://egpu.io/forums/builds/thund...10-1803-itsage/
https://egpu.io/forums/builds/thund...10-1803-itsage/

Hereís a blurb about the TB header:

quote:

It can work without the TB3 header. The TB3 header is for force-power, hot-plug, and sleep state. Force power is not required if the drivers can detect when a device is connected and can properly enumerate and enable the usb controller of the thunderbolt controller. Hot-plug and sleep might work without the header if the firmware and drivers allow it. In my old 2008 Mac Pro where there is no thunderbolt firmware, Windows can detect when Thunderbolt devices are connected but can't enumerate them and allocate resources for them if resources weren't previously reserved. In that case a restart with the Thunderbolt devices connected is required to actually use the Thunderbolt devices.
And hereís a setup with the eGPU + TB card trick, although reading through the thread the separate powered riser method is super picky (vs just two TB connected PCIe slots):
https://egpu.io/forums/builds/late-...10-14-1-itsage/

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION




LODGE NORTH posted:

It's not, as Binary Badger pointed out, but it's worth noting, if you live near an Apple Store, that maybe half the times you just stroll in on a lazy day, they pencil you in for a quick appointment and just fix it or find some way to make things better for you. A friend of mine had his phone replaced out of warranty just because, I'm guessing, he seemed like an innocent dumb guy.

Yeah, it's these stories that are why I like Apple and their customer service...

except the Scottsdale Apple Store up at Kierland Commons; gently caress that place. I was in getting a battery replacement one time and an actual innocent dumb guy just needed an out-of-warranty battery replacement on his iPhone. I think it was a 6S, but the Apple store employee who was helping him talked him into buying a new one by lying to him about it no longer being supported by iOS and thus the battery replacement would be a waste of money on an old phone.

But I also might just chalk it up to it being Scottsdale, because gently caress Scottsdale.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


Last Chance posted:

I believe this is correct. The 2013 iMac can only act as an external display through thunderbolt 2 specifically, meaning it only really works as a display for other macs.

Thunderbolt 2 is the same size as mini display port so itís really easy to try and use a mini display port cable from a windows machine but it wonít work since itís technically not thunderbolt 2

just to draw a bit more attention to this: it's not just the same size, the port is literally the same form factor (on purpose) just like current tbolt uses USB-C. yeah, gotta look for the lightning bolt on the cable.

DuckConference
May 27, 2004



Sent from my iPad posted:

Thinking about switching from a RMBP to a 2020 iMac since I'm tired of CPU throttling, constant very high fan noise, and Bluetooth problems. I haven't bought a desktop Mac in over a decade, though, and was curious if anyone here had bought the i9 variant.

I'd rather not buy a 12 core Mac Pro since it's roughly 2x the cost of an i9 iMac for similar CPU performance, but given that Mac Pro towers have historically held their value so well is there a strong case to be made for buying one? The only real argument I can see for it is the upgradeable GPU, but I don't game and I'm not a video editor.

I'm planning on VESA mounting the iMac. Is it worth getting the VESA version, or is the resale generally way worse for those (and instead I should get a fugly adapter)?

How bad is the fan noise on the 2020 i9 5700 (XT or non-XT) model? And how bad is CPU throttling under sustained load? Since no tech reviewers know how to use anything other than their web browser and Geekbench I basically can't find anything about this outside of a handful of forums, and the fan noise reports there are all over the place.

This french youtube review (the auto-translate works ok) had a lot of throttling with the i9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_TB5e7NfrY

Sent from my iPad
Jun 19, 2000



DuckConference posted:

This french youtube review (the auto-translate works ok) had a lot of throttling with the i9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_TB5e7NfrY
Thanks

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




Apple hasn't changed the cooling system on the iMacs since 2013 (except for the Pro in 2017) and if anything they'll use even lower rated fans on any AS model.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


how many apple chips do you think they'd put in a maxed-out mac pro

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




Who knows, but if they were smart they'd go for a daughterboard model like on the last of the 2012 Mac Pros, so that they could conceivably be upgraded to newer CPUs as they come out.

To me the current 'new' Mac Pro is a dead end, its based around a single Xeon CPU with a maximum of 28 cores.. you can get an HP with dual Xeons and 56 cores already..

I get the feeling that Apple, should they make an AS Mac Pro, won't bother to put more than 2-4 CPUs, and I'm thinking they're probably stick with two even on the Pro because of cooling issues.

They've probably learned a lot since the days of the liquid cooled G5s, seeing that the cooling on the iMac Pro is adequate, but I'd bet good money they're never gonna throw too much resources behind cooling foe the future..

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014




College Slice

Liquid cooling has advanced tremendously in quality and reliability since Apple had to get Delphi to design an AIO in 2004. I doubt they'll use liquid cooling in the future, still, but I don't think it would have the problems it had 16 years ago.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




Apple doesn't want people bringing in heavy towers dripping green goo anymore

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


I expect them to stick with single-socket on an Apple Silicon Mac Pro. Many reasons:

* rising core counts per socket have steadily pushed more of the server/workstation market to single socket. Apple already decided 28 cores in 1 socket was enough for Mac Pro customers. They could've gone dual- or even quad-socket if they wanted to, Intel has products for that, but did not.

* they should be able to put more CPUs on a single die than Intel does. That's already been happening with other big ARM chips. For example, Amazon's Graviton2 has 64 Neoverse N1 cores on a single chip.

* it's a lot of extra engineering work to support multi-socket, and all the problems that come with it. Trying to maintain performance and cache coherence when half (or more) the cores and memory are a slow, high-latency hop away is a very difficult problem. Note: from all I can find, Graviton2 doesn't bother with multi-socket support, and if even Amazon with its giant warehouses full of dense cloud compute servers doesn't feel the need, why would Apple?

This decision will have nothing to do with cooling. The engineering on cooling is trivial and easily solved compared to the challenge of designing workstation / server silicon, and in turn designing a single-chip standalone CPU is easy compared to designing ones which support being linked together into a multi-socket big machine.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


yeah i mean it's ridiculous to think about but i do like the idea (as with so many ridiculous things) of them just going gently caress it we shoved eight unconstrained apple chips in here, it's pretty fast. doubles as a space heater

BobHoward posted:

* they should be able to put more CPUs on a single die than Intel does. That's already been happening with other big ARM chips. For example, Amazon's Graviton2 has 64 Neoverse N1 cores on a single chip.

* it's a lot of extra engineering work to support multi-socket, and all the problems that come with it. Trying to maintain performance and cache coherence when half (or more) the cores and memory are a slow, high-latency hop away is a very difficult problem. Note: from all I can find, Graviton2 doesn't bother with multi-socket support, and if even Amazon with its giant warehouses full of dense cloud compute servers doesn't feel the need, why would Apple?


cheers for the update on other modern ARM CPUs. that's cool.

i always wondered about the latency, etc., that must cause headaches in that sort of environment. thanks.

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION




FuturePastNow posted:

Liquid cooling has advanced tremendously in quality and reliability since Apple had to get Delphi to design an AIO in 2004. I doubt they'll use liquid cooling in the future, still, but I don't think it would have the problems it had 16 years ago.

While it has advanced, air cooling has also advanced via greater development/understanding of heat pipe design, fin materials/density, and also vapor chambers. Apple should avoid liquid cooling at all costs.

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



I don't care how far it's advanced, you will never see a major consumer item with liquid cooling.

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION




American McGay posted:

I don't care how far it's advanced, you will never see a major consumer item with liquid cooling.

Apple-wise I agree, but Lenovo would like to have a word with you...

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014




College Slice

SourKraut posted:

Apple-wise I agree, but Lenovo would like to have a word with you...

HP Omen, Alienware, Falcon Northwest, etc. Basically every high end gaming desktop you can buy today has liquid cooled models. Apple isn't going to go there again, probably. But above a certain price point, it's extremely common in desktop computers. And not just the home-built ones.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




New Apple Event, next week, September 15, 2020 at 10:00 AM PDT, 1:00 PM EDT

Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Sep 8, 2020

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



Logo looks like piping for a new water cooled Mac Pro.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




Somehow I highly doubt they'll announce a 14-inch AS MacBook Pro at this event.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Binary Badger posted:

Somehow I highly doubt they'll announce a 14-inch AS MacBook Pro at this event.

So, which Apple Silicon-based machine will they announce? The end of 2020 is only three months away. Do we think they are going to do another fall event?

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



MacBook Air

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Weedle
May 31, 2006




Last Chance posted:

So, which Apple Silicon-based machine will they announce? The end of 2020 is only three months away. Do we think they are going to do another fall event?

they often announce macs in october. canít recall them ever announcing macs at the september event

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


still fingers crossed for return of the glorious bitsymac 12-inch with rad apple chips. itís like the platonic ideal of my loving around laptop

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007

THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE AVATAR SYSTEM IS TOXIC! But also we should bring back "callout threads".

The person buying you these isn't who you think, or someone you've ever interacted with, just someone who finds your posts insufferable.


I want a 12Ē MacBook Pro. It makes zero sense in 2020, but the idea of bringing back the 12Ē P-p-p-PowerBook makes me

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


Based on what's known so far, it's possible we might get performance similar to 15"/16" Intel MBPs in an ultralight, which would be p. cool IMO.

If true it'll be like the 2011 MBA all over again, except perhaps more so, and I am all about it. (The 2011 MBA was when Sandy Bridge improved perf/W so much over previous Intel chips that suddenly the MBA's CPU was about as fast as a Mac Pro 1,1.)

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007

THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE AVATAR SYSTEM IS TOXIC! But also we should bring back "callout threads".

The person buying you these isn't who you think, or someone you've ever interacted with, just someone who finds your posts insufferable.


BobHoward posted:

Based on what's known so far, it's possible we might get performance similar to 15"/16" Intel MBPs in an ultralight, which would be p. cool IMO.

If true it'll be like the 2011 MBA all over again, except perhaps more so, and I am all about it. (The 2011 MBA was when Sandy Bridge improved perf/W so much over previous Intel chips that suddenly the MBA's CPU was about as fast as a Mac Pro 1,1.)

I get what will realistically happen and what the rumors are saying. If we do get a new 12", it'll be an ultralight machine occupying a low-power niche in the MacBook stack. It might have way better performance than any Intel-based computer that size ever has, potentially matching the flagship workhorses of today, but it'll still probably be a 'portability (and maybe cost) > power' notebook.

I'm talking about a full-fat Macbook Pro: power of at least the 14" in an ultraportable body. That's why I went back to the Powerbook. It's something totally dumb and flex-y and nonsensical, but also weird and awesome. The flagship pro/prosumer model that's physically smaller and much more capable than its more mass-market sibling.

I'm curious to see how Apple breaks down performance between the lines with the new chips. Will we at least get a 13/14" Macbook Pro that matches the 16" now that AMD won't be supplying dGPUs? Will we still see such an insane performance gap between the two sizes?

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


BobHoward posted:

Based on what's known so far, it's possible we might get performance similar to 15"/16" Intel MBPs in an ultralight, which would be p. cool IMO.

If true it'll be like the 2011 MBA all over again, except perhaps more so, and I am all about it. (The 2011 MBA was when Sandy Bridge improved perf/W so much over previous Intel chips that suddenly the MBA's CPU was about as fast as a Mac Pro 1,1.)

as is it's almost certainly going to at least feel a good bit faster than my current 2012 rmbp

Granite Octopus
Jun 24, 2008



I got so sick of my usb3 hubs all flaking out in weird and wonderful ways that I finally bought a thunderbolt dock in the hopes that poo poo would just work reliably. I never move any of this stuff from my desk so I feel like it's reasonable to think it will work the same way every day when I sit down at my computer to work.
Things were great for the last 2 weeks but now I only get 30hz on my 4k display when the MacBook is in clamshell mode. This was previously fine for 7+ days of constant use but now its decided it won't do it any more for ł,o§į✰ ReaSonS ✰į§o,ł even though literally none of the hardware or software has changed.

MBP 16" 2019
CalDigit TS3+
Dell U2718Q (4k, connected via DP->DP cable)
Dell U2715H (1440p, connected via Usb-c->DP cable

Considering its unlikely I'll ever be working in an office again I should just buy myself a new Mac mini and put this loving laptop in a drawer. At least I'll get USB ports and screens that work, and I won't have to put up with it's noisy fan anymore.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

My most reliable usb hub is a $19 Beat Buy Insignia

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Granite Octopus posted:

I got so sick of my usb3 hubs all flaking out in weird and wonderful ways that I finally bought a thunderbolt dock in the hopes that poo poo would just work reliably. I never move any of this stuff from my desk so I feel like it's reasonable to think it will work the same way every day when I sit down at my computer to work.
Things were great for the last 2 weeks but now I only get 30hz on my 4k display when the MacBook is in clamshell mode. This was previously fine for 7+ days of constant use but now its decided it won't do it any more for ł,o§į✰ ReaSonS ✰į§o,ł even though literally none of the hardware or software has changed.

MBP 16" 2019
CalDigit TS3+
Dell U2718Q (4k, connected via DP->DP cable)
Dell U2715H (1440p, connected via Usb-c->DP cable

Considering its unlikely I'll ever be working in an office again I should just buy myself a new Mac mini and put this loving laptop in a drawer. At least I'll get USB ports and screens that work, and I won't have to put up with it's noisy fan anymore.

Tried a reboot (LOL)?

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002



Would ARM silicon provide a sufficient size reduction to fit in a decent battery in a 12Ē form factor? I think battery life is what restricts smaller size offerings.

ratbert90
Feb 12, 2009
JUST FUCKING STOP, JESUS H. CHRIST


cowofwar posted:

Would ARM silicon provide a sufficient size reduction to fit in a decent battery in a 12 form factor? I think battery life is what restricts smaller size offerings.

Drinking 80% less power and producing 80% less heat will also help battery life.

Coffee Jones
Jul 4, 2004



No discrete graphics on a SoC setup.
No difference from an intel layout.
FWIW I really donít like the miniature hand dryer effect of laptops and anything that avoids that is A+ for me
Leave the gaming and video rendering and hundred docket container software builds to desktops with heatsinks the size of grapefruits.

Coffee Jones fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Sep 10, 2020

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


cowofwar posted:

Would ARM silicon provide a sufficient size reduction to fit in a decent battery in a 12Ē form factor? I think battery life is what restricts smaller size offerings.

i'd argue that the eight or nine hours is fine for most people - but more to the point, i never really had a problem with the battery life of my 11-inch air, either.

i'm not expecting there to be no heat, my ipads have gotten hot as gently caress doing intensive things in the past. but i'm sure it'll still be manageable with better passive cooling.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007

THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE AVATAR SYSTEM IS TOXIC! But also we should bring back "callout threads".

The person buying you these isn't who you think, or someone you've ever interacted with, just someone who finds your posts insufferable.


Does the DTK have a fan in it?

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Granite Octopus
Jun 24, 2008



redeyes posted:

Tried a reboot (LOL)?

Ironically it was rebooting that kicked this loving madness off.

Ok Comboomer posted:

Does the DTK have a fan in it?

I haven't seen any leaks or teardowns yet, would love to find out.

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