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Riven
Apr 22, 2002


Their major show-off demo was “Office and Adobe actually work on our new computers!!!”

There will likely be big compatibility issues for awhile, even with their virtualization layer. Bigger issue for devs, but yeah I would expect things to be wonky for awhile and lol no Avid and Ableton are gonna take awhile to do anything about it.

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mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


Deep Glove Bruno posted:

Here's a question for y'all. In my line of work I have found it easiest to buy pretty much the biggest, most expensive specced up mbp because then it will remain relevant to my income generating for about five years, which is a drat long time for a laptop doing media work. I have done this every five years or so nearly without fail - once a MBP pro died after only three - we're talking 2002-2007-2010-2015. See what I'm getting at? It's that time again, the 2015 isn't holding up as well as it used to.

What is the significance of the ARM switchover? When they left behind Core 2 Duo or whatever and went to i3/5/7 I waited and got an i7 and I think that was worthwhile, but ARM in a laptop seems a lot more of a question mark. What is the claimed improvement? Everything I read is corporate poo poo about Apple not having to buy processors and designing their own instead, and I don't work at Apple or own stock so I don't give a gently caress. Functionally for me, what's changing? Will software compatibility be affected? I'll miss boot camp but I'm not a big pc gamer anyway. Is this an actual performance jump? Will lovely developers like Avid be expected to fully rewrite software they have barely even improved since 1990? Or should I just buy the last Intel they make.

Obviously I wouldn't buy until line-waiting weirdos have spent a couple months beta testing for the rest of us and there's some discussion online about it, but are there predictions being made about this change?

you're confusing the first switchover (well second, if you're talking going from motorola to power) from powerpc to x86/intel. going from core 2 duo to iX was just moving up within intel's new processor branding.

they're probably going to be faster, substantially, in all the areas apple wants to show off during their presentation. it'll probably be par in other areas, and intel may do better in some. but generally, macs will continue to get faster year over year just like they do now.

if you have poorly updated software that you depend on, buying the last intel generation may be a good purchase, as it'll be supported for as long as any other macbook, and you can use all of your old titles. if you use stuff from the mac app store, you'll be less affected than most. eventually most good software will be ported and you won't notice much of a difference.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

 
 




What do you do? This could have some bearing on whether to buy now. Example, if you work in IT you will lose native intel virtualization which may or may not be a big deal. If you work in the creative space you know that Adobe and such are optimized for x86-64 NOW, rather than the question-mark that is Apple Silicon.

My personal opinion is that if you need a new laptop now, and you need it to generate revenue then I would buy now and not wait to be a guinea pig for Apple Silicon compatibility. For my work laptop I will refresh to the latest Intel before the ARM switch. For my own personal laptop at home? I might early adopt ARM -- maybe not the very first iteration but I don't have a lot to lose since I mainly use it for web/documents/multimedia consumption.

Deep Glove Bruno
Sep 4, 2015

Feel the glove!


I mean for me I guess Adobe is a positive as i use premiere... but i also use a legacy non-subscription version of photoshop. So it's a big deal if you intend to use "software" in the immediate term after the change, good to know.

Riven
Apr 22, 2002


Yeah like I would not hesitate to buy an Apple Silicon laptop for my wife who literally uses nothing but browsers, Office and Zoom. For anyone else, unless you’re a creative using exclusively Apple creative software, it’s a bit of a gamble.

Deep Glove Bruno
Sep 4, 2015

Feel the glove!


Martytoof posted:

What do you do? This could have some bearing on whether to buy now. Example, if you work in IT you will lose native intel virtualization which may or may not be a big deal. If you work in the creative space you know that Adobe and such are optimized for x86-64 NOW, rather than the question-mark that is Apple Silicon.

My personal opinion is that if you need a new laptop now, and you need it to generate revenue then I would buy now and not wait to be a guinea pig for Apple Silicon compatibility. For my work laptop I will refresh to the latest Intel before the ARM switch. For my own personal laptop at home? I might early adopt ARM -- maybe not the very first iteration but I don't have a lot to lose since I mainly use it for web/documents/multimedia consumption.

I edit video, mostly in professional facilities' suites - or remoting into suites atm - but i'm freelance and do get asked to work on my own avid/premiere on occasion, and also use mostly premiere for personal and side projects. I get laptops for space reasons and also cause it's for my personal use 90% of the time, but the high spec comes in handy when somebody throws 8k uncompressed video at you or something.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




If your work involves heavy use of Windows-based apps, stick with the Intels as x86 emulation like Parallels and VMWare are going to have to be rebuilt from the ground up and it's unknown how well that will pan out.

If you work solely within the Appleverse, you're still going to need to wait for developers to get used to programming for AS anyway.. guaranteed stuff like iWork (Pages, Numbers, Keynote) will be up and running right away but the jury still out on everything else, such as Creative Cloud.

TheWevel
Apr 14, 2002
Send Help; Trapped in Stupid Factory

Deep Glove Bruno posted:

I edit video, mostly in professional facilities' suites - or remoting into suites atm - but i'm freelance and do get asked to work on my own avid/premiere on occasion, and also use mostly premiere for personal and side projects. I get laptops for space reasons and also cause it's for my personal use 90% of the time, but the high spec comes in handy when somebody throws 8k uncompressed video at you or something.

Avid has never been able to get its poo poo together so I would stick with Intel for the next 5 years. Doubly so if you ever use any of the Avid i/o boxes.

edit: If you were Adobe Premiere it would probably be fine on ARM since they're already working on porting stuff over to ARM. The big question again though would be if AJA or Blackmagic are doing the same with their driver support.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Thankfully MS and Adobe have both already announced back in June that Office 365 and Creative Cloud will be supported natively on Mac ARM, which means they were probably given a heads up well before WWDC.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




The true terror is whether or not OpenEmu will work (and the various emulators) because business travel will be a real pain in the rear end if I can't replay old GBA/PSP games while "on the clock".

Deep Glove Bruno
Sep 4, 2015

Feel the glove!


TheWevel posted:

Avid has never been able to get its poo poo together so I would stick with Intel for the next 5 years. Doubly so if you ever use any of the Avid i/o boxes.

edit: If you were Adobe Premiere it would probably be fine on ARM since they're already working on porting stuff over to ARM. The big question again though would be if AJA or Blackmagic are doing the same with their driver support.

That's an interesting point I hadn't considered, although when i've used my laptop for work it's never been in conjunction with any i/o or custom hardware. A lot of the work that "editors" do outside of movies and tv seems to involve much more data wrangling/assistant editing, but I'm fortunate in not having to do that poo poo, I get paid to do the story stuff and when I do personal/unpaid projects it's shorts that don't need lots of conforming/syncing/finishing. Working natively in Adobe is nice though.

And yeah I didn't mean to imply there was a big pain moving from core to iX processors, just that it helped determine when I make my purchase, like do I stick it out long enough get the new silicon. It sounds like in this case probably not.

Deep Glove Bruno
Sep 4, 2015

Feel the glove!


jokes posted:

The true terror is whether or not OpenEmu will work (and the various emulators) because business travel will be a real pain in the rear end if I can't replay old GBA/PSP games while "on the clock".

Oh poo poo I forgot about MAME...

otter
Jul 23, 2007
word.

They had MAME for the original iPad for like 4 days before apple pulled it from the store.
I still have it on my 1st gen ipad. I just wish the Atari arcade stick worked with it.

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007





Grimey Drawer

The new chip must not be that much faster over the one in the 11 since they blew past it and didn’t say anything about battery life.

64bit_Dophins
Jan 2, 2014
https://www.cars.com/articles/how-much-oil-consumption-is-normal-1420682864535/

So they aren't going to say anything about the new Macs?

huh...

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

aaaaaaaaaa
AAAAAAAAAAA
HHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!




64bit_Dophins posted:

So they aren't going to say anything about the new Macs?

huh...

This is the iPhone event.

Mac event is next month.

64bit_Dophins
Jan 2, 2014
https://www.cars.com/articles/how-much-oil-consumption-is-normal-1420682864535/

FCKGW posted:

This is the iPhone event.

Mac event is next month.

Oh dang rip - didn't get the memo.

I just want to know if I've made a terrible mistake by buying a late cycle 16in pro lol.

I need to know if I should have buyers remorse or not!

badjohny
Oct 6, 2005





So does the normal HomePod get all that fancy stuff the Mini has?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

Deep Glove Bruno posted:

What is the significance of the ARM switchover? When they left behind Core 2 Duo or whatever and went to i3/5/7 I waited and got an i7 and I think that was worthwhile, but ARM in a laptop seems a lot more of a question mark.
Those are still intel chips. ARM is a whole different ball of wax. The CPU's from the iPad/iPhone.

Deep Glove Bruno posted:

What is the claimed improvement?
Supposedly less power draw, better battery life, and better performance. Apple doesn't have to rely on Intel for processors so they can improve things every year, like they do with the iPhones etc.

CyberPingu
Sep 15, 2013

Ready To Ruck!





64bit_Dophins posted:

Oh dang rip - didn't get the memo.

I just want to know if I've made a terrible mistake by buying a late cycle 16in pro lol.

I need to know if I should have buyers remorse or not!

Well the only issue there is it's vulnerable to the T2 exploit.

But apart from that no.

ratbert90
Feb 12, 2009
JUST FUCKING STOP, JESUS H. CHRIST



Bob Morales posted:

Those are still intel chips. ARM is a whole different ball of wax. The CPU's from the iPad/iPhone.

Supposedly less power draw, better battery life, and better performance. Apple doesn't have to rely on Intel for processors so they can improve things every year, like they do with the iPhones etc.

It’s about cost savings OP.

badjohny
Oct 6, 2005





Bob Morales posted:

Those are still intel chips. ARM is a whole different ball of wax. The CPU's from the iPad/iPhone.

Supposedly less power draw, better battery life, and better performance. Apple doesn't have to rely on Intel for processors so they can improve things every year, like they do with the iPhones etc.

They can also run all IOS apps on the macs now with little change in code. Giving them another revenue stream of millions of apps suddenly available for purchase on the mac app store.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

 
 




jokes posted:

The true terror is whether or not OpenEmu will work (and the various emulators) because business travel will be a real pain in the rear end if I can't replay old GBA/PSP games while "on the clock".

These are emulated and not passthrough x86 instructions so it should be perfectly fine. It may take someone a minute to port if there's ARM specific instructions that need to be added but there's no reason it's not feasible

kefkafloyd
Jun 8, 2006

What really knocked me out
Was her cheap sunglasses

There are already ARM versions of emulators and cores (how do you think RetroPie works?) so I see no issue with emulators being ported to ARM in the near future.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003

 
 




Yeah, the only things that are going to be hard to port are things that explicitly call x86 instructions and that's just a matter of figuring out what the native ARM equivalents and "ways of working" are. Where you will really lose out is hypervisor passthrough for x86 OS' which is flat out not possible. There may be some kind of transcoding that happens but it's not the same. It's just going to be "emulation" rather than "virtualization" which is fine for things like MAME but not so great when you need to run Windows 2030.

64bit_Dophins posted:

I need to know if I should have buyers remorse or not!

It's easier if you just live in a perpetual state of buyer's remorse like me.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013


Codeweavers just announced CrossOver 20 for Apple Silicon that will supposedly bring full Wine support, so it'll be interesting to see how that turns out.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 4 days!


ratbert90 posted:

It’s about cost savings OP.

It’s definitely at least 60% this but Intel really didn’t do themselves any favors over the past....decade....

Like obviously this will funnel more money to Apple and allow them greater control in shaping how people use their devices but they aren’t wrong to be priming people to expect a return to 1995-2010 level annual hardware gains.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 4 days!


badjohny posted:

They can also run all IOS apps on the macs now with little change in code. Giving them another revenue stream of millions of apps suddenly available for purchase on the mac app store.

Apple could’ve spent some of their trillion dollars the past decade building better relationships with developers and getting them to bring their apps to the Mac store willingly instead of letting that poo poo embarrassingly wither on the vine like loving Dashboard Widgets

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

I don’t want loving phone apps on my mac

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



Why not?

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

aaaaaaaaaa
AAAAAAAAAAA
HHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!




Bob Morales posted:

I don’t want loving phone apps on my mac

Then don't install them.

Luckily it's an option for people like me who would love to see some really cool iOS apps on my laptop.

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



Also it's not just "phone apps" it's also the entire iPad app library which has some really awesome stuff.

SMERSH Mouth
Jun 25, 2005



BobHoward posted:

A 16" MBP will absolutely smoke a 13" for video editing and encoding. The 16" has 2x the CPU cores, a massively higher spec cooling system to let them run fast, and a discrete AMD Radeon GPU instead of relying on Intel integrated video.

All that said, I have no feel for whether a mid- or high-end 13" would suit your particular needs. It might be enough. I can only inform you that yes, there's a really significant performance gap between the two.

Thanks. Maybe I’ll bite the bullet on a 16” Intel, but I kind of like the idea of getting on the most future-proof architecture. May be a little while of a longer wait..

But I didn’t realize that MBPs as of late no longer use MagSafe connectors. Today my boss dropped his (2016, 13”) while it was plugged into the Thunderbolt charger and it appears that it now needs a complete logic board replacement because the ports (which got damaged) are integrated with it?

No matter if the charger is actually plugged in or not, he’s got a battery icon that graphically shows “plugged in, fully charged” but the charge percentage indicated is steadily dropping towards zero.

Is that really the case? Can you fatally ruin your whole MBP by yanking on the charger cable? I thought that was the whole problem that MagSafe was supposed to solve forever. Would’ve at least thought that the thunderbolt inputs might’ve had some separation from the logic board on the inside.

Mercurius
May 4, 2004

Amp it up.



SMERSH Mouth posted:

Thanks. Maybe I’ll bite the bullet on a 16” Intel, but I kind of like the idea of getting on the most future-proof architecture. May be a little while of a longer wait..

But I didn’t realize that MBPs as of late no longer use MagSafe connectors. Today my boss dropped his (2016, 13”) while it was plugged into the Thunderbolt charger and it appears that it now needs a complete logic board replacement because the ports (which got damaged) are integrated with it?

No matter if the charger is actually plugged in or not, he’s got a battery icon that graphically shows “plugged in, fully charged” but the charge percentage indicated is steadily dropping towards zero.

Is that really the case? Can you fatally ruin your whole MBP by yanking on the charger cable? I thought that was the whole problem that MagSafe was supposed to solve forever. Would’ve at least thought that the thunderbolt inputs might’ve had some separation from the logic board on the inside.
Given that the battery is draining to zero I’d think it more likely that dropping it has damaged some of the other internals.

otter
Jul 23, 2007
word.

I for one welcome our new iPad app overlord.
I'm too lazy to find a Simpsons gif.

For years I have wanted the ability to just have Yahtzee in a little window on my main computer so that in between tasks I can just play my wife back instead of having to grab my phone and play her. Or while I am on some kind of godforsaken hold time with clients, etc.

At first I was distrustful of the merger between iOS and MacOS but the lines, they are a-blurin'.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




SMERSH Mouth posted:

But I didn’t realize that MBPs as of late no longer use MagSafe connectors. Today my boss dropped his (2016, 13”) while it was plugged into the Thunderbolt charger and it appears that it now needs a complete logic board replacement because the ports (which got damaged) are integrated with it?

No matter if the charger is actually plugged in or not, he’s got a battery icon that graphically shows “plugged in, fully charged” but the charge percentage indicated is steadily dropping towards zero.

Well, to start off, both 13 and 15-inch Retina MacBook Pros have been using USB-C/Thunderbolt ports since the 2016 models, Late 2015 models were the last to have MagSafe ports.

Also, there are two kinds of 13-inch rMBPs, 2-port and 4-port.

The 2-port rMBPs have their ports attached directly to the logic board. On the 4-ports, the port assemblies (I/O boards) sit on a small board which attaches to the logic board.

It sounds likelier that your boss has a 2-port and the drop damaged something on the logic board..

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007





Grimey Drawer

iPhones now have MagSafe lol.

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION




American McGay posted:

Also it's not just "phone apps" it's also the entire iPad app library which has some really awesome stuff.

Yeah, I was really pissed when Revu basically did a one-and-done of Bluebeam for Mac, but they still actively support and update the iOS version, and so I'll be able to use it on an ARM Mac.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013


MarcusSA posted:

iPhones now have MagSafe lol.

It actually looks super useful for cars, assuming that the magnet stuff is strong enough to stay on a mount.

Edit: It has 15W charging, so it'll actually keep up with Waze, unlike the wireless car chargers that have existed so far.

Roadie fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Oct 13, 2020

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Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 4 days!


I predict MagSafe camera/lens/light attachments (third party, if not from Apple) in the next two years

Leakers have been talking about Apple testing “modular attachment capability” for iPhone for a while now, but always in little drips and drabs and it never seemed particularly serious.

But duh- magnets. And duh- the best thing they could think of premiering the system with is a ding dang credit card wallet

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