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extra row of teeth
Apr 27, 2007

Float like a butterfly, sting like a Beerus


All of this "You'll change your mind when you're older" stuff is loving bullshit. While yes, there are women who do change their mind, and there are those who are ambivalent or don't want them until their 'clock' kicks in, in cases such as these where the girl was a kid who didn't like kids it's safe to say that they aren't going to suddenly morph into a child-crazed gushing mother wannabe when hitting their 30s. It's incredibly patronizing.

I am a woman who doesn't not want kids, ever. I have zero motherly urge to bring a kid into the world. I don't hate kids on the same level that you do per se, but the idea of being around one under the age of 5 for an extended amount of time makes me shudder. The idea of being pregnant bothers me, too, and If I were to ever change my mind the child would be adopted from a bad neighborhood before I worry about bringing my own genes into the world. Not because of waah pregnancy, but because I wouldn't feel right having my own when there are so many unwanted babies, especially of my ethnicity, who need a chance.

That being said, I'm in a unique position for someone from the 'crotch-spawn' crowd: my boyfriend has a daughter. We see her on weekends due to some legal bullshit. The mom is almost completely out of the picture so I'm basically a de-facto mom on weekends. How has this affected me, and has it changed my point of view when it comes to bringing in my own?

Well, I absolutely love her. I miss her when she's gone. She can get to you sometimes as she's an especially clingy kid but it's understandable because she's an only child who's had a rough life and a void where her mom should have been. She's also the biggest sweetheart, runs into my arms, brings me presents I take her out and play with her and honestly have fun doing it. It has made me entertain the idea of having my own someday. However, while there is certainly room in my heart for this little girl, the position on having my own kids stays the same. While it has given me a tiny glimpse of all the love and affection they can provide, it also has allowed me to see what an ENORMOUS commitment they are, and how badly their lives can be wrecked if their parents don't work out. Not to mention the finances, worries about college and all of that other crap. I'm more than happy to be her weekend mom, maybe even full-time someday, and people have told me I'd be a great mother; but I know that having my own is not for me.

I can also say that if my boyfriend's daughter was younger I would have never dated him above a casual level. The kid being out of the baby/toddler phase from the beginning helped enormously.

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extra row of teeth
Apr 27, 2007

Float like a butterfly, sting like a Beerus


gabusan posted:

The "partners" that dont want to have children with you are the ones who are planning to dump you for a younger broad once you hit 40. You will then remember fondly all those Internet guys that encouraged you to "stick to your guns".

If your man doesnt want to have children with you, he does not see himself making a life project with you. If you dont want to have children and he does, he will eventually dump you and find himself someone else. Maybe not now, maybe not in the next 5 years. But he will eventually once he realizes he is wasting his time with you.

I could sugar coat it or I could tell you different so you feel good, but this is the blunt truth. You face the truth or the truth will catch up with you sooner or later. Plain and simple.

So if I don't want to have children with my boyfriend that means I'm biding my time until he gets too old/boring/frumpy so I can trade him in for a newer guy with no repercussions like car shopping, got it. Also every man in the world wants to have a child regardless of what they say and not having one is a sign of no commitment, even though people of both genders regularly poo poo out kids then abandon their new family. Brb, quitting Birth Control and inseminating myself so that our progeny will tie us together forever in *~true love~*.

There's so much wrong with this post, I pray it's a troll.

I do agree if you're saying in his case it's a waste of his time as well as hers to stick around if he really wants kids. But that reads like a blanket statement, especially that first sentence.

extra row of teeth
Apr 27, 2007

Float like a butterfly, sting like a Beerus


gabusan posted:

No, you dont get it lady. The one who is going to trade you for a newer babe is him, not you. At 40, men still have options. Women dont. This is a fact of life you better face now. And not "every man in the world wants to have a child", many dont, and these are the ones you must be wary about. A man that doesnt want children is a man who doesnt want commitment, and no ammount of quitting birth control and getting pregnant will change that. He will dump you. For the younger chick.

You can pray it is a troll, but it wont change what it is: the cold, hard truth staring you right in the face. You can look away now if you want, truth will still be there.

And yes, your boyfriend will dump you once he fully understands you would hate raising his children. He might stick around for now while you are still hot to him, but he will eventually want to devote himself to a woman that would LOVE to raise his children. It doesn't matter if these are hypothetically children or actual children.

Like the last message said, you better grow up and mature fast so you can make the right decissions in your life.

It is true that women generally age worse than men and that there are more younger women who would date older men than the other way around for various reasons, whether for poo poo like money or evo-psych alpha male bullshit depending on what you'd want to believe. However, if that was totally the case as you said, terms like MILF and Cougar wouldn't exist. Many men of all ages like older women, and there's still a social stigma of borderline pedo/creep when older men date much younger women - usually because it is a glaring indicator of their emotional maturity.

If that is your personal view on commitment, that's fine. If I wanted kids I wouldn't stick around with someone who didn't or who felt like a babysitter to one that I already had, either. But to say all men who don't want kids don't want commitment as well is retarded.

There are a million reasons not to have kids other than not wanting to be tied down. I want to be able to travel the world with my ideal partner, to spend what money would go down the drain with a kid to be used for extra vacations,museums, seeing other cultures, exploring new hobbies, keeping ourselves looking good for eachother (which CAN get expensive. Especially for women.) The would-be kid's college fund could get invested into a nest egg instead to live richly together in our old lives.
I'm also an artist on the side as it's my college degree, and I'm entertaining the thought of moving cross country, dropping everything and starting my career over. All of these are things that would be either impossible or incredibly irresponsible to do with a child around. The child comes first.

None of that is possible in my current situation in a long term relationship with a man that has a child, but that is okay because again, the child comes first. While I am not financially responsible for the kid, I understand that my boyfriend is and that he needs to be there for her and provide for her both timewise and financially before he can for us.

Now if you said marriage, you'd have a much stronger argument. For every guy who has a legitimate reason, such as not believing he needs a legally binding contract to love a woman forever, there are indeed other guys (and girls) who are simply not committing because they don't want to stick it out for life.

extra row of teeth
Apr 27, 2007

Float like a butterfly, sting like a Beerus


demozthenes posted:

Honestly, the happiest marriages that I grew up (and ended up basing my "successful loving relationship" models on) were ones with no children. Aunts and uncles, childhood caretakers, and longtime family friends that stayed married for decades and chose to focus on their careers, travel, or each other. I saw more adoration and less bitterness and nitpicking with these couples than I did in married couples with children - it seemed that they were constantly focusing on Mom or Dad's shortcomings with the children, or the kids' shortcomings themselves, more than enjoying their families.

This is a much more elegant way of saying what I was trying to. While you can be happy with kids, they are such an enormous stressor that it makes sense that childless couples have an easier time with maintaining long lived, successful partnerships. They can spend more time and cash on each other, continue to pursue quality time activities without worrying about something extra, etc. Relationships take work, especially long term ones after boredom and the other partner's quirks sink in, and when one has a kid a lot of that goes to the wayside to focus on the being you created together and who requires nearly all of your free time and energy.

This isn't to say long term relationships with kids involved can't work; it's just much easier to make time for your SO, while removing a major arguing point of married couples (finances relating to the kid, management of the kid's discipline, etc.)

extra row of teeth
Apr 27, 2007

Float like a butterfly, sting like a Beerus


Thenipwax posted:

Why is everybody missing his entire point? He didn't say that couples that didn't want children will end in divorce. He said that men that want kids that are married to women that DON'T want kids will eventually have their desire to have children win out, and they will look for a mate elsewhere.

It seems like common loving sense to me that if one partner wants kids and the other doesn't, things are doomed in the long run.

That would be sound, if it was his entire point. He's getting shat on because he was saying all men who do not want kids are commitmentophobes who will trade in their women after their tits begin to sag. And on that note, he was also calling women who wouldn't churn out babies worthless and something to be traded in when they're too old.

Not only is this viewpoint hilariously dated, it's also sexist towards both genders because he is essentially calling childless men pigs and childless women useless.

extra row of teeth
Apr 27, 2007

Float like a butterfly, sting like a Beerus


This isn't meant to be a derail, but...

You know there are non hormonal birth control methods, right? Including a pill? The one I'm on right now is once weekly and it's side effects are increased male hormones (which usually translates to ance breakouts) and hosed up random periods. Aside from the sporadic periods being kind of a scare this pill has been wonderful and has been working for me for over 3 years. It's not approved in the USA yet so YMMV, and this isn't meant to be an advertisement. In fact, there are several recent BC brands which deal exactly with this problem and give you the lowest hormone fuckery possible.

The point is, while the neverending PMS trip of hormonal BC pills is Hell on earth, there are options and all of which are safer than the rhythm method. As an added bonus, you can throw away the condoms.

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extra row of teeth
Apr 27, 2007

Float like a butterfly, sting like a Beerus


^^^ Best post

EmeraldFlashlight posted:

Is there a big difference between different kinds of hormonal BC pills too? Or do all hormonal types affect you in pretty much the same kind of hell-on-earth ways?

Generally the more sensitive you are to hormonal changes, the worse BC pills will gently caress with you. It affects almost everyone in certain ways but the PMS-gone-wrong psychosis and dramatic mood swings you hear about are from someone taking the wrong hormonal cocktail. I personally have extremely sensitive hormones, so any type of fuckery with my estrogen puts me into immediate Bitch Mode. It can also cause a bunch of other crappy side effects such as weight gain, drying you up worse than an 80 year old, and causing a big dip in your sex drive.

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