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StrangersInTheNight
Dec 31, 2007
Exchanging glaaances..

I understand not wanting to have kids, and the idea of the financial, physical and emotional burden not being attractive - frankly, I'm still on the fence myself on whether I want to have kids - but it's pretty weird to think children are gross, like some sort of repulsive larva. That's a really juvenile mindset. Where do you think you came from? They're just babies, which are easier to deal with than children frankly. Once they learn to walk and talk back to you, they can become little hellions. Babies just roll around and make noises.

EDIT: Also children can't help what they are so it's pretty strangely bigoted to hate them for it. I'm not huge on kids myself - I have trouble talking to them, always have even when I was a kid myself - but I don't hate them for simply being what they are.

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StrangersInTheNight
Dec 31, 2007
Exchanging glaaances..

Iron Crowned posted:

Cats, dogs, squirrels, rats, spiders, snakes, everything in the ocean, can't help what they are, so it seems pretty strangely bigoted to hate them for it.

Well yes, this is why I don't hate snakes. I fear them, but I don't hate them.

Also, children aren't venomous and they aren't vermin who have the possibility of carrying the plague. I get you were trying to be all clever and turn my words back on me, but your comparison of potentially lethal animals to children isn't really apt. It's still rather stupid to hate kids for having the gall to exist as children.

StrangersInTheNight
Dec 31, 2007
Exchanging glaaances..

It's cool to not want kids, but you shouldn't treat the choice to not have children as somehow superior to having kids or you're really just being the sort of rear end in a top hat you espouse against.

Not having kids doesn't make you more logical, or smarter, or somehow more sound. It makes you an adult without kids.

EDIT: Uncle Salty you're really sounding like a twat

StrangersInTheNight
Dec 31, 2007
Exchanging glaaances..

bonestructure posted:

If it helps any, I've known since I was nine or ten that I didn't want children. I didn't even like playing house or having baby dolls. Finally I had a tubal ligation when I was 28, because I was tired of birth-control panics.

For most of my life I was told that I'd regret it when I was older and it was too late. Now I'm 46, closing in on menopause, and I'm still happy as hell that I never had kids. I don't hate children or feel contempt for parents, I just never wanted that for myself. I've never regretted not having children.

This is the key phrase I think. It's ok to not want children, but it's weird to have outright contempt for kids or parents, or to put yourself on a high horse and mock those who choose to breed.

I'm glad that you don't regret it! That's awesome that you're secure in your decision. I know it's annoying to constantly hear 'you'll change your mind one day', but I think it's so often heard because it's pretty common for almost all teenagers young adults swear they won't have children. It's basically part of growing up to at one point sneer and announce you'll never have kids - I don't know anyone who hasn't done it at least once - it's like a developmental phase. It makes it hard to differentiate youthful exuberance and misconception with someone who has a solid understanding of what they're claiming.

And really, it just seems silly to me to be so stubborn and insist you know how the future you will feel forevermore just to prove some people wrong. It strikes me as much more logical to say something more middle-of-the-road, like "I don't really want kids now, but who knows how I'll feel in ten years" rather than try to convince others you're aware of how your emotions will be for the rest of your life. I know it's frustrating because, "I know myself! These people don't!", but on their side, they're seeing a human being who is attesting that they're sure they'll have this certain opinion forever. It's hard not to raise an eyebrow and doubt such an unbending worldview. The most any person can really say is how they feel now - predicting that you'll always feel/be that way is hard for anyone to fully believe.

(NOTE: That last paragraph is not aimed at bonestructure, it's just my personal opinion on the issue and separate from my responding to her)

StrangersInTheNight
Dec 31, 2007
Exchanging glaaances..

Darko posted:

Therefore, having a pet fulfills half of the nurturing instinct that people get from children without most of the problems. As far as the instinctual need to pass genes on, given the way human intelligence works, we can create legacies through other means to fulfill that.

Yes, there are other ways to fulfill the drive if you're not looking for kids.

This doesn't make wanting kids bad, or people who choose to have kids instead of getting a dog (not everyone likes dogs) somehow less. You keep trying to use your intense Vulcan logic to basically explain why you think wanting kids is oh-so-illogical, because there are other ways to alleviate the drives. You know the easiest ways to alleviate the drive? To have some kids. Not everyone wants substitutes, or to try and settle for things that are sort-of-kind-of equivalent if you squint hard enough - not everybody wants tofurkey instead of turkey.

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