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NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





Infinity Gaia posted:

Man I'm up to Eridanus in my Law replay of SJ:R and it's like... I can definitely remember why I never feel comfortable going Law at any point, while I can sorta make myself go Chaos. Mastema is just so OBVIOUSLY untrustworthy going down his route feels like straight up self-sabotage. All the endings in SJ end up bad for different reasons, but at least the other two present themselves as reasonable before going off the deep end. This is, I feel, almost to the detriment of the overall plot and I think it would've been better for the narrative if Mastema was a couple degrees less obviously bad.

Bu the SJR Law Theme is so good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Mxyf4JNmw

Mastema is very much a case of the narrative says something different to the Player sand the Characters. He does nothing but help you through the game while I think every single boss is Chaos. That doesn't change how the tone of what he's doing is so obviously insincere and sinister but he's still helping is the problem and there's no reason to think our heroes should pick up on his villainy.

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Armor-Piercing
Sep 22, 2009

Nightly dance
of bleeding swords




I finally got around to playing through Raidou 2, the last PS2 SMT game I had to finish. It's been a long time since I played the first one but I remember really liking it and a lot of this one just felt like the game only existed because they already had the assets, and that it was being dragged out a lot. Just things like having to fight the same "boss" like eight times or having Tae insist over and over that I watch very carefully as she highlights song lyrics to explain.

Also it's probably because I just finished it but that last dungeon might be my least favorite of the SMT games I've played.

Things I liked:
- Taotie
- Nagi
- Playing my thunder taiko while a giant pentagram appears in the sky to summon Great Kohryu for me to ride while this kicks in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1L2rtfb_JE

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




Amatasu Mikaboshi for Persona 6 random final boss god.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Hopefully Iíll get the technical side down and start the LP soon. I played a bit to get a hang of controls and Iím in shock there wasnít a three hour intro, shocked I tell you.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Oh I didnít know there was another LP going on. Well, I guess there will be two then!

Infinity Gaia
Feb 27, 2011

a storm is coming...


Armor-Piercing posted:

I finally got around to playing through Raidou 2, the last PS2 SMT game I had to finish. It's been a long time since I played the first one but I remember really liking it and a lot of this one just felt like the game only existed because they already had the assets, and that it was being dragged out a lot. Just things like having to fight the same "boss" like eight times or having Tae insist over and over that I watch very carefully as she highlights song lyrics to explain.

Also it's probably because I just finished it but that last dungeon might be my least favorite of the SMT games I've played.

Things I liked:
- Taotie
- Nagi
- Playing my thunder taiko while a giant pentagram appears in the sky to summon Great Kohryu for me to ride while this kicks in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1L2rtfb_JE

The thing about Raidou 2 is that the plot is definitely worse and it has issues with repeated assets and such, but on the other hand the original Raidou Kuzunoha is pretty close to being actively painful to play. Raidou 2 just refined the gameplay to such a ludicrous degree trying to go back to Raidou 1 is practically impossible.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





And now I have P4G once again.

I totally forgot about that opening cutscene. In my first run I also totally forgot about it and when I encountered Namatame standing around on the street I was like "huh, this guy has a name and a portrait. He must be important..."

Did anybody remember him from he opening FMV in their first run?

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





So technically all the Persona games take place in the same universe, right? Nu Persona is a continuation of Eternal Punishment's Earth.

But the Persona mechanics have wildly changed. In P2 our heroes could summon Personas any time they wanted to perform feats of superhuman strength or the like. In Persona 3 they're sort of confused because we do fight a few times outside the designated magic zone and there are the two evil Persona users who can of course summon their Personas at will but they're still clearly heading away from P2's way of doing things.

P4 and P5 are where they got the formula down. Yu and Joker and the rest of them are normal teenagers who various posters here could probably beat up. Then they enter the TV World or Metaverse or whatever it will be in P6 and they become super badasses. It's a pretty clever way to invoke the feeling of being a perfectly average teenager who does perfectly average teenager things while also being a superhero with awesome powers. They managed to combine both self-insert fantasies without diminishing either one.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008



It's questionable how much 3-5 are in the same continuity as P2. The P2 cast are given text-only cameos in P3, as is the Nanjo group, but, as you've stated, the mechanics of persona-use are entirely different.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



The P1 and P2 casts are old enough by now to have their own kids in high school.

Which probably wouldn't be a bad idea for a sequel.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


I think the general notion the games go with is that some of the P1 and P2 cast are among Mitsuru's Shadow Operatives, we just haven't met them. There's a shot of some of the group in P4 Arena that I know has some silhouettes pulled from P1 and P2 art.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Hellioning posted:

It's questionable how much 3-5 are in the same continuity as P2. The P2 cast are given text-only cameos in P3, as is the Nanjo group, but, as you've stated, the mechanics of persona-use are entirely different.

I think it's relatively clear by this point that Persona usage is not something that follows a specific set of rules.

Shin Megami Tensei has always been built around the idea that humanity's collective unconsciousness is a source of power and basically the only connection between each Persona summoning is that they tend to reflect in some fashion A) Tarot Cards and B) Are in some way reflective of the spooky poo poo going on.

Like it's worth remembering that none of the Persona summoning methods even in the recent games are the same. Persona 2's are caused by a rumor being true (even if that rumor in this case is the same as the Persona 1 method.). The Persona 3 cast has to use fake guns and ritually evoke the fear of death to bring their Personas out, Persona 4's cast has to actively encounter their own shadow and confront the truth, and Pesona 5 has you having to undergo a painful process to reveal your true self. The iffiest one is Persona 1 but Persona 1 was before a lot of things came together.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Jul 3, 2020

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012





Ah, I think you'll find that in Trinity Soul, it proves tha

Booky
Feb 21, 2013

chill bug


in personas 1 and 2 philemon basically gives you the persona ability, right?

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


Booky posted:

in personas 1 and 2 philemon basically gives you the persona ability, right?

Yeah. The main difference bettween 1-2 and 3-5 in that respect is thatt in 1 and 2, Philemon and Nyarlathotep are active participants in the plot, while in 3 they're sort of playing distant 'put down the pieces' roles. Philemoon gives all of the 1 and 2 casts the Wild Card, while in 3 and 4 he's implied to grant it to only the protagonist to help set things right (in 5 it's different and of course that's part of the plot itself). He's meant to be represented by that blue butterfly that appears as save points and in a few other places.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

Isn't the Wild Card in 4/5 given by the specific deity in those games? Hence why Yu and Adachi were both chosen by the gas station attendent, and same with Joker and Akechi.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


ApplesandOranges posted:

Isn't the Wild Card in 4/5 given by the specific deity in those games? Hence why Yu and Adachi were both chosen by the gas station attendent, and same with Joker and Akechi.

So I might be wrong, but the way I understand 3 and 4's is that the situation would've given the protagonist a Persona anyway, but Philemon decides to step in and give you a bit more through the Wild Card and the Velvet Room. P3's protagonist would probably always have gotten Thanatos as a Persona, but Philemon knows that situation's gonna get bad enough that they need the Wild Card on top of it--and Orpheus as more of a 'true' initial Persona. Similarly, Izanami gives both Yu and Adachi versions of Izanagi, but Philemon gives Yu the Wild Card to really lead the charge in cutting through the whole Midnight Channel situation.

5 is a VERY weird situation, with Jaldabaoth hijacking Philemon's domain to use it for his own twisted game. But I think we can actually assume that Akechi also has the Wild Card to some degree; his Persona doesn't evolve in the same way as your real party members, he swaps from Robin Hood to Loki as voluntarily as you can switch between yours.

Cleretic fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Jul 3, 2020

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

P5's situation is kiiiinda explained in-game, I think? The team speculates during the stand-off with Akechi that he only has two Personas because he never made any real bonds with anyone. Akechi never held people up, he just killed them, so probably no Shadows from negotiation. So he only has Robin Hood as his mask, and Loki as his 'true' Persona.

YaketySass
Jan 15, 2019

Blind Idiot Dog


I was under the impression that Joker and Akechi were to be Igor and Yaldabaoth's respective "pieces" in the game before the latter decided to change the setup, get rid of Igor, and take control of both sides.

On that note, it's left pretty ambiguous which ones of the coincidences that brought Joker, Shido, Futaba, etc... together were orchestrated by a higher power, and which ones occured on their own. Was Joker chosen because he ran into Shido, or did he run into Shido because he was chosen?

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

I assume the former; Joker represents the 'good' side of humanity because of his upstanding nature in that confrontation.

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Dragonatrix
Aug 16, 2009

You have offended STRINGIE! You must be punished!


ApplesandOranges posted:

P5's situation is kiiiinda explained in-game, I think? The team speculates during the stand-off with Akechi that he only has two Personas because he never made any real bonds with anyone. Akechi never held people up, he just killed them, so probably no Shadows from negotiation. So he only has Robin Hood as his mask, and Loki as his 'true' Persona.

It's just a fantheory but I always liked the idea that Loki was his regular Persona, yeah, and Robin Hood was from his bond with Joker.

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