|
Cardiovorax posted:"Compared" to most SMT games seems like it should be the operative term here. Yeah, compared to the other games in the franchise, in this thread talking about the franchise, with people that play the franchise it's pretty easy. And honestly it's not that much more difficult or rude compared to any other PS2 rpg outside of that context. Because again, there's no penalty except a bit of your time for losing a fight and just swapping all your characters around to just trounce on the boss in the refight.
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 05:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 22:45 |
|
|
I’m not sure you can really call any RPG hard unless it has at least two teleporter mazes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 05:26
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:Thought so. I remember how my first time fighting Meghanada in DDS2 was just a giant kick in the dick and I can only laugh that someone would call that game a 'total sleep-walk.' Actually beating a boss on the first try in those games felt like a real achievement. I beat him on my first try blind  Also guys play the snes and ps1 megatens. They're actually very easy. The hardest part of one is the loving map autorotating Edit: I had no problems with the sun dungeon or the tower in dds either. I just thought they were enjoyable, easy romps Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Oct 23, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 05:27
|
|
|
I played DDS1 to the final dungeon and recall absolutely nothing in terms of boss fights except I think I stopped at the big filying boss (Garuda?) because I wasn't having any fun and it did kill me. I had zero motivation to retry. In terms of gameplay, all I can recall is the dumb money demon, the delightful troll of a Pixie with Megidolaeon and how long it took you to change in and out of demon form and subsequently how annoying it was when the enemies could Revert you.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2020 05:36
|
|
|
SMT1 and 2's random encounters both get pretty easy once you have a gun that hits all enemies and Sleep or Charm bullets, but there are still some nasty surprises like enemies that reflect gun attacks, or obnoxious dungeon gimmicks, or the occasional overtuned boss. On my first run of SMT2, I somehow ended up underlevelled for the endgame and the NPC ally you get right before the final boss was the only character who could actually hit it with any reliability at all, so I had to chip away at its five-digit HP total 200 HP at a time while the rest of my party just focused on staying alive.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 02:17
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 02:33
|
|
|
some people understood the random skill inheritance as "reroll demon skills until you compromise on what skills you want so your demons are imperfect" but surely there's a better system as what it ended up being is "reroll demon skills over and over until you give up and eject the game to play a different game"
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 03:11
|
|
|
Alejandro Sanchez posted:some people understood the random skill inheritance as "reroll demon skills until you compromise on what skills you want so your demons are imperfect" but surely there's a better system as what it ended up being is "reroll demon skills over and over until you give up and eject the game to play a different game" Yes, there is. They've experimented with other systems ever since, and I think most of them have done pretty well. But the intended approach to the random skill inheritance system is 'accept imperfections', which apparently we're incapable of.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 03:17
|
|
|
In that case they shouldn't have given the option to reroll at all.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 03:20
|
|
|
I wonder how the protag will gain skills in SMT5, after we had Magatama in 3 and then Demon Whisper in 4 and 4A
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 03:23
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:Yes, there is. They've experimented with other systems ever since, and I think most of them have done pretty well. wow, i guess the system is correct and people who play it are all wrong
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 03:24
|
|
|
Junpei posted:I wonder how the protag will gain skills in SMT5, after we had Magatama in 3 and then Demon Whisper in 4 and 4A I hope you get new skills from eating your demons
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 03:27
|
|
|
YggiDee posted:I hope you get new skills from eating your demons
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 03:28
|
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:In that case they shouldn't have given the option to reroll at all. I don't think it was actually possible to disable rerolls with how they implemented it. Like, an RNG was always in place for the skill selection, and that RNG can't be retained forever, it has to be rerolled at some point. If they moved that RNG reroll back (say, to loading the save) then people just would've moved their rerolling process back to that point. People are INCREDIBLY stubborn about pursuing their solutions, which is... kind of exactly what caused this. Alejandro Sanchez posted:wow, i guess the system is correct and people who play it are all wrong Failing to take human interaction into account is its own kind of failure, don't get me wrong. Just because their system worked in theory, doesn't mean they get a pass when it turns out it falls apart in practice. People are stubborn and stupid, but they're also your target audience.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 03:41
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:I don't think it was actually possible to disable rerolls with how they implemented it. Like, an RNG was always in place for the skill selection, and that RNG can't be retained forever, it has to be rerolled at some point. If they moved that RNG reroll back (say, to loading the save) then people just would've moved their rerolling process back to that point. People are INCREDIBLY stubborn about pursuing their solutions, which is... kind of exactly what caused this. I don't think this is true at all. The reason rerolling was so common was because it was incredibly easy both to figure out and also to actually accomplish. Even a single layer of obtuseness added onto that process would vastly cut down on players' willingnesses to reroll in most situations.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 03:54
|
|
|
Clearly, what SMT needs is an ironman mode to go with no backing out of fusion previews. This is a great idea. I actually think there exists a game where this would work as a design, but it’d be a 1-hour roguelike rather than a 70-hour RPG.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 04:26
|
|
|
I just remembered that Apocalypse had an app that let you fuse demons mid-battle and now I'm trying to imagine scenarios where that's, like, tactically viable. Or make it so the Cathedral of Shadows lets you do regular fusion but a sacrifice fusion can only be done with a hostile opponent. Or something.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 04:50
|
|
|
Arist posted:I don't think this is true at all. The reason rerolling was so common was because it was incredibly easy both to figure out and also to actually accomplish. Even a single layer of obtuseness added onto that process would vastly cut down on players' willingnesses to reroll in most situations. Yeah, if you were determined enough, I do think you could probably design a system that kept random inheritance while discouraging rerolls; I think it'd probably take a higher level of inconvenience than you're predicting, but if you stored the RNG seed that determined fusion inheritance in the data of the demons to be fused and generated it at the point that the demons were initially acquired, that would probably be enough to stop rerolling for 99% of players 99% of the time. I don't think it's actually a good idea to do it that way, though, because mostly players are just going to be annoyed that they randomly got bad skills on their brand new Lucifer.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 07:03
|
|
|
Couldn’t they add manual inheritance, but also have an option to the player to turn it off and go back to random rolls? That way everyone is happy, if you thinking choosing skills ruins everything and turns SMT into baby games, you have the option to back to the style you like.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 12:57
|
|
|
Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Couldn’t they add manual inheritance, but also have an option to the player to turn it off and go back to random rolls? That way everyone is happy, if you thinking choosing skills ruins everything and turns SMT into baby games, you have the option to back to the style you like. Well... no, not really. Because the thing is that manual skill selection doesn't inherently turn SMT into baby games, because the games that have manual skill selection (complete or not) are balanced around that. These games were made and designed around the systems they were built with, you can't just swap a big part of it out and expect it to work the same. If you add manual skill inheritance to a game that doesn't have it, like Nocturne, you kinda break the game's difficulty because it's just not designed for that, it's designed with the assumption that you'll always have some awkward weak spots in your lineup. But random skill inheritance in game that has and is designed around manual, like Persona 5? It'd likely become ludicrously unfair, because the game's designed around the assumption of you meeting a certain baseline. I think SMTIV gave rise to the 'manual skill selection means baby SMT' (from various different directions, positive and negative) because they... actually kinda hosed it up there, and led to the situation I described. They'd figured out that they shouldn't do manual skill inheritance anymore, so they didn't, but they still designed the game around the difficulty level they knew, resulting in a game that was much easier than both its predecessors and successors. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Oct 24, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2020 13:43
|
|
|
YggiDee posted:I just remembered that Apocalypse had an app that let you fuse demons mid-battle and now I'm trying to imagine scenarios where that's, like, tactically viable. Or make it so the Cathedral of Shadows lets you do regular fusion but a sacrifice fusion can only be done with a hostile opponent. Or something.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 03:39
|
|
|
when the goddang heck is persona scramble being localized. No, I will not read the last few pages to see if anything has been announced
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 03:50
|
|
|
littleorv posted:when the goddang heck is persona scramble being localized. No, I will not read the last few pages to see if anything has been announced Koei Tecmo's financials from a few months back indicated they plan to release it by March, though covid may have affected that
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 03:52
|
|
|
Well at least I'll be able to play Age of Calamity next month I guess
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 04:05
|
|
|
Junpei posted:I wonder how the protag will gain skills in SMT5, after we had Magatama in 3 and then Demon Whisper in 4 and 4A You can spend time and even date your Magatama now to unlock skills. But don't invite them out at the same time! Choose your Valentine's carefully, or they might get jealous and you lose -rep!
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 06:51
|
|
|
littleorv posted:when the goddang heck is persona scramble being localized. No, I will not read the last few pages to see if anything has been announced Now that we know Hyrule Warriors is coming out next month I'm 100% sure they pushed this game so far back because of it. That game seemingly came out of nowhere
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 09:33
|
|
|
I thought the Nocturne rerelease was gonna come out this month for some reason and I am highly disappointed. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 21:36
|
|
|
HellOnEarth posted:I thought the Nocturne rerelease was gonna come out this month for some reason and I am highly disappointed. It does in Japan.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 21:55
|
|
|
I thought the same for awhile because I kept thinking of the simultaneous world release of SMT5.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 23:41
|
|
|
Yeah I don't really understand why it will take half a year to localize a straight remake of a game that already has a complete English localization, I guess it's due to the voice acting
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 04:20
|
|
|
Item Getter posted:Yeah I don't really understand why it will take half a year to localize a straight remake of a game that already has a complete English localization, I guess it's due to the voice acting Voice acting, updating translation, and making sure nothing breaks in translation.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 04:53
|
|
|
Replacing Dante from Devil May Cry with a different Dante from Devil May Cry adds at least 3 months.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 08:18
|
|
|
HellOnEarth posted:Replacing Dante from Devil May Cry with a different Dante from Devil May Cry adds at least 3 months. It legit probably does factor in pretty hard, Nocturne Raidou's never been outside Japan, after all, so that's a whole new localization job on top of everything. ...and given the weirdness that's been going on around the remake in a few countries, he hasn't exactly made it easy. Also, I'm not sure what exactly goes into simultaneous international releases for games, but I wager it's not the easiest thing in the world, especially for a text-heavy game that's going to a couple of countries for the first time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 16:28
|
|
|
https://www.siliconera.com/persona-5-scramble-localization-not-mentioned-at-koei-tecmos-q2-2020-report/
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 16:32
|
|
|
Probably got pushed back then.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 16:35
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 17:05
|
|
|
Shin Megami Tensei: Moscow, lol. https://twitter.com/Tatsuya_SSS/status/1321406637370937344
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 16:43
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJM9i1ubizI lmfao i thought it was a shitpost when i first saw it but there's actually the stock unity logo on the nocturne splash page on ps4 also: 
Sagabal fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Oct 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 22:47
|
|
|
Looks like random skill inheritance is still in. Ah well.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 22:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 22:45 |
|
|
ChaosArgate posted:Looks like random skill inheritance is still in. Ah well. It's almost like everyone saying 'you can't just cram manual skill inheritance into a game designed around random inheritance and expect it to still be balanced' had a point, or something. It's interesting that the Nocturne remaster's using Unity, but not actually disappointing. The modern FFVIII 'port' is actually the entire game recreated in Unity, but you'd never be able to tell.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2020 00:09
|
|