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Heavy neutrino
Sep 16, 2007

You made a fine post for yourself. ...For a casualry, I suppose.


King of Solomon posted:

The early dungeons in Strange Journey aren't really all that bad. I only pulled out a guide (well, loaded up a map on the SJ wiki) in very specific places, and even that's because I thought the door search is retarded.

Also Sector E happened, and that's when I just opened up the map and left it up the entire time. I really need to finish that game. Are Sector F and beyond terribly bad?

I haven't played much of Strange Journey, but from what I've heard, whereas Sector E is the video game manifestation of Atlus' hatred for the player, Sector H is directly based off of the floor plan of Atlus japan's HQ building.

I have no clue what that means.

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Strange Matter
Oct 5, 2009

Ask me about Genocide


Persona 3: FES question-- how do I get Satan? Is there some special thing you have to do, since he doesn't seem to be fusible?

Cheap Diner Coffee
Aug 7, 2010

Philistine.


A few threads say it can be made through fusion, and a document was linked with this:

^Satan (Lv 79) 5/1596 (0.313%)
(+**) Michael(Judge) + Lucifer(Judge)
(+**) Sparna*(Sun) + Gabriel(Empre) + Garuda(Star)
(+**) Baal Zebul*(Moon) + Gabriel(Empre) + Thanatos(Death)
(+**) Shiva*(Tower) + Gabriel(Empre) + Atropos(Fortu)
(+**) Masakado*(Tower) + Gabriel(Empre) + Norn(Fortu)

I don't know if it's correct, though. Some people mentioned using Anubis, so it's at the least not complete.

Cheap Diner Coffee fucked around with this message at Aug 10, 2011 around 15:10

Strange Matter
Oct 5, 2009

Ask me about Genocide


I'm in the last month of the game, and there's no way I'm going to be able to max out the following S.Links:

Star
Moon
Temperence
Lovers
Empress

Are there any endgame Personae that I'm going to miss out due to not getting the Max S.Link personae from those links?

jonjonaug
Mar 26, 2010

by Lowtax


Strange Matter posted:

I'm in the last month of the game, and there's no way I'm going to be able to max out the following S.Links:

Star
Moon
Temperence
Lovers
Empress

Are there any endgame Personae that I'm going to miss out due to not getting the Max S.Link personae from those links?

Star has Helel, which is a crazy useful high level Persona. The fusion spell with Satan allows you to one-shot anything in the game except for the bonus boss.

If you're not planning on fighting the bonus boss though, you really don't need Helel because if you can fuse him you're already stupidly overleveled for the final fight.

To your earlier post: There's no special fusion for Satan, but Judgement Persona are typically difficult to find a good combination for to begin with.

Momomo
Dec 25, 2009

It's fusion, I don't gotta explain shit.


I gave up on Strange Journey when they wanted the player to run around multiple floors without any indication as to where to go, looking for the boss. Some of the floors wouldn't even show up on the map and had invisible walls, so you have to spend 10 minutes bumping up against them trying to find every possible path. Since people keep mentioning Sector E, I assume that's it. What's even worse is, I can't check a guide to help because I played it so long ago, and forgot how many times I've seen him.

NIV3K
Jan 8, 2010



Momomo posted:

I gave up on Strange Journey when they wanted the player to run around multiple floors without any indication as to where to go, looking for the boss. Some of the floors wouldn't even show up on the map and had invisible walls, so you have to spend 10 minutes bumping up against them trying to find every possible path. Since people keep mentioning Sector E, I assume that's it. What's even worse is, I can't check a guide to help because I played it so long ago, and forgot how many times I've seen him.
I'm pretty sure you are talking about Sector C, not E.

Groghammer
Aug 10, 2011

On a lonely planet spinning its way toward damnation amid the fear and despair of a broken human race, who is left to fight for all that is good and pure and gets you smashed for under a fiver? Yes, it's the surprising adventures of me, Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar!

Edit: Someone got to it first.

Personally, I have trouble with the actual Horkos fight, just because I'm a lazy bastard who hates grinding/hunting for fusable demons. The actual negotiation part is kind of fun, though.

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


Strange Matter posted:

I'm in the last month of the game, and there's no way I'm going to be able to max out the following S.Links:

Star
Moon
Temperence
Lovers
Empress

Are there any endgame Personae that I'm going to miss out due to not getting the Max S.Link personae from those links?

The max Empress persona, Alilat, has a great heart item accessory that halves all magic damage. Other than that and Helel you're not missing anything special.

Strange Matter
Oct 5, 2009

Ask me about Genocide


jonjonaug posted:

Star has Helel, which is a crazy useful high level Persona. The fusion spell with Satan allows you to one-shot anything in the game except for the bonus boss.

If you're not planning on fighting the bonus boss though, you really don't need Helel because if you can fuse him you're already stupidly overleveled for the final fight.

To your earlier post: There's no special fusion for Satan, but Judgement Persona are typically difficult to find a good combination for to begin with.
Well shoot I actually want Helel so I can beat the Reaper and get to Monad. I think I've got that S.Link up to...5 and I have about 23 days left. Hopefully that's enough!

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



I decided to replay Nocturne and a few things kinda bugged me that I didn't really think about my first run.


1. Were you like out for a long time between the conception and when you awake in the hospital? everything seems to be already established the second the world ends complete with all the lingering souls knowing whats up which I thought was kind of odd.

2. Who exactly is the woman in black? Her dialogue syncs up to your teacher (both say they will be your strength in this world or something) but I mean you actually find the teacher again so I don't really get it. (I forget if this is explained in the Kalpas or not since it's been so long)

Ibram Gaunt fucked around with this message at Aug 10, 2011 around 19:49

jonjonaug
Mar 26, 2010

by Lowtax


Strange Matter posted:

Well shoot I actually want Helel so I can beat the Reaper and get to Monad. I think I've got that S.Link up to...5 and I have about 23 days left. Hopefully that's enough!

You can beat the Reaper by stunlocking him with Odin's Thunder Reign skill (it takes some luck though since you can be screwed over by a bad turn order). He's also entirely beatable without Armageddon, and grinding to a high enough level to be able to use it just to get access to Monad so you can grind even harder is kind of insane.

Ibram Gaunt posted:

1. Were you like out for a long time between the conception and the vortex world? everything seems to be already established the second the world ends complete with all the lingering souls knowing whats up which I thought was kind of odd.

2. Who exactly is the woman in black? Her dialogue syncs up to your teacher (both say they will be your strength in this world or something) but I mean you actually find the teacher again so I don't really get it. (I forget if this is explained in the Kalpas or not since it's been so long)

1. The world was established as it was in order to create a board where Creation could occur. Hikawa actually engineered the whole thing in order to give himself a huge advantage at the start. His intention was for himself to be the only human capable of Creation in the Vortex World, and even if others ended up coming too he could still crush everything with the massive amount of resources he had access to.

2. I always assumed it was just some demon that Lucifer had take the form of your teacher in order to make the Demi-Fiend more sympathetic to the plight of the demons.

jonjonaug fucked around with this message at Aug 10, 2011 around 19:53

Strange Matter
Oct 5, 2009

Ask me about Genocide


jonjonaug posted:

You can beat the Reaper by stunlocking him with Odin's Thunder Reign skill (it takes some luck though since you can be screwed over by a bad turn order). He's also entirely beatable without Armageddon, and grinding to a high enough level to be able to use it just to get access to Monad so you can grind even harder is kind of insane.
Well unlike practically every other JRPG ever made it's actually enjoyable to grind in this game, so I'm sorta interested in doing it just to see what it has to offer.

Faulty
Feb 16, 2011


King of Solomon posted:

Also Sector E happened, and that's when I just opened up the map and left it up the entire time. I really need to finish that game. Are Sector F and beyond terribly bad?

Sector F and G aren't as bad as E from what I remember. The start of Sector H is a bit of a slog but I felt it got better at the halfway point.

Momomo
Dec 25, 2009

It's fusion, I don't gotta explain shit.


kthegreat posted:

I'm pretty sure you are talking about Sector C, not E.

Yeah, it's C. I checked gamefaqs again and I still can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I've gone to four different places and he's not in any of them.

Groghammer
Aug 10, 2011

On a lonely planet spinning its way toward damnation amid the fear and despair of a broken human race, who is left to fight for all that is good and pure and gets you smashed for under a fiver? Yes, it's the surprising adventures of me, Sir Digby Chicken-Caesar!

Did you get to the part where there's an empty room, but you can hear him far away?

There's a secret door nearby.

Momomo
Dec 25, 2009

It's fusion, I don't gotta explain shit.


Yeah, I already did that. He's nowhere now.

Aerofallosov
Oct 3, 2007

It was so peaceful beneath the glittering stars.



... that is strangely terrifying and adorable all at once.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


King of Solomon posted:

The early dungeons in Strange Journey aren't really all that bad. I only pulled out a guide (well, loaded up a map on the SJ wiki) in very specific places, and even that's because I thought the door search is retarded.

Also Sector E happened, and that's when I just opened up the map and left it up the entire time. I really need to finish that game. Are Sector F and beyond terribly bad?

Sector E is probably the worst thing in the game. Sector F is basically a boss rush, Sector G has a few mildly annoying conveyor-belt mazes and Sector H has some teleporters and other irritating poo poo, but in terms of concentrated frustration nothing really compares to E.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


E takes you back to the days of SNES when you were playing Simon's Quest and had to write poo poo down to properly remember it. Although the internet exists now so it's not as irritating if you use a guide and save yourself the hours of frustration.

EDIT: E killed my interest but I was still a big MegaTen fan when the game came out and felt obligated to complete it, then I got to H looked at the map online and the last boss and I immediately thought "NOPE." and just looked at the other endings.

Captain Baal fucked around with this message at Aug 12, 2011 around 07:30

Xythar
Dec 22, 2004

echoes of a contemporary nation

I fell down every single drat hole on E because I was all OCD about completing my map. Every single one.

Weirdly, it wasn't until F that I actually lost interest in the game.

nachos
Jun 27, 2004

Wario Chalmers! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


Baalster posted:

EDIT: E killed my interest but I was still a big MegaTen fan when the game came out and felt obligated to complete it, then I got to H looked at the map online and the last boss and I immediately thought "NOPE." and just looked at the other endings.

At least the music was great in E, that made it tolerable.

I still haven't finished the last boss in SJ. I have a save file waiting there but I know that have to go back and grind for a couple hours to get some skills necessary to beat it. I don't really give a poo poo though, I watched the ending and I'm satisfied. It's counted as beaten on my backloggery

An SMT game with some Metal Gear Solid length cutscenes would be so refreshing. I love the settings and everything about the games but goddamn is it annoying to have to dungeon crawl 5 hours for 5 minutes of story progression. DDS is the loving worst with this.

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008


Yes, if there is one thing more games need, it's 90-minute cutscenes.

END ME SCOOB
Mar 27, 2007

do it DOG wrap it up already are you asleep

would you do it for a scooby snack

finisH ME LIKE ONE OF YOUR FUCKING SANDWI
CHES ALREADY YOU SHIT I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE

nachos posted:

An SMT game with some Metal Gear Solid length cutscenes would be so refreshing. I love the settings and everything about the games but goddamn is it annoying to have to dungeon crawl 5 hours for 5 minutes of story progression. DDS is the loving worst with this.

This is pretty much the opening chunk of Strange Journey. Holy poo poo that tutorial is a slog.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


Really what pissed me most off about E is how it was the first dungeon stage in the game with good music and a nice background for once and I thought to myself upon entering it "Alright then, this might be good. Looks like Atlus understood that their dungeons being generic really wasn't helping them and decided to make this."

I'll give it one thing, Sector E certainly was not generic.

Cityinthesea
Aug 7, 2009


I didn't think sector E was that annoying, you guys are all babies

Saint Freak
Apr 15, 2007



I died on fleek, and so am cursed to roam the Earth forever, eternally on fleek...


Buglord

Cityinthesea posted:

I didn't think sector E was that annoying, you guys are all babies

I would've rather 'fought' ten sector E's than some of the bosses.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



I think the best part of Strange Journey was fighting Jimenez with an all reflect phys team and just watching him use Hell Tack or whatever it was called and gib himself instantly.

MarsDragon
Apr 27, 2010

"You've all learned something very important here: there are things in this world you just can't change!"

Sector E only had one really annoying "screw you" moment. Everything else just took patience and dungeon smarts. I can't think of any dungeon in SJ that's as bad as people make it out to be. I completed all the maps (besides the new game+ only one) fine on my own.

I'd rather have big dungeons with lots of do instead of boring hallways like any Persona game

gtrmp
Sep 29, 2008

Oba-Ma... Oba-Ma! Oba-Ma, aasha deh!

Technique posted:

Yes, if there is one thing more games need, it's 90-minute cutscenes.

Either people are complaining about Strange Journey being nothing but dungeons, or they're complaining about Persona 3/4 taking an hour or two before you get into the first proper dungeon. Hmm, it's almost as if the SMT franchise contains multiple, wildly divergent subgenres of the JRPG...

The Unholy Ghost
Feb 19, 2011

"I can't wait to see you say it again after I come back from the military."


I'm about to finish Persona 4 and I have a question-which game should I play next? Would Digital Devil Saga be the next PS2 game in order of difficulty? I really want to play Nocturne, but I think I need to build myself up to it. What did most of you do? (I've finished Persona 3 as well.)

Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


As long as you understand that Persona/demon fusion is really important, as are strengths/weaknesses, you can safely play Nocturne. I haven't played DDS, but Persona 3, 4, and Nocturne are pretty much interchangeable in terms of basic gameplay. Just play whatever interests you.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



People really oversell how difficult Nocturne is. There's a couple of moments that can definitely trip you up if you just mash poo poo together (that can work in the Persona games, but not really in the rest of the series), but the game isn't the I Want To Be The Guy of JRPGs that some people make it out to be.

Kagon
Jan 25, 2005




I'd say go for Nocturne- it's really not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. I've had about the same number of game overs as I did in the Persona games, and they're usually due to the same sort of instant death or having too many demons with the same weaknesses that can mess you up in those. Strange Journey was my first SMT, and I think it's really been the hardest one so far.

Marin Karin
Jul 29, 2011

What are you, compared to my magnificence?


Magikoopa189 posted:

I'm about to finish Persona 4 and I have a question-which game should I play next? Would Digital Devil Saga be the next PS2 game in order of difficulty? I really want to play Nocturne, but I think I need to build myself up to it. What did most of you do? (I've finished Persona 3 as well.)

Like others have said: don't let its overblown infamy stop you if it's the game you want to play. I love DDS, and being the monsters is a nice break from fusing Angel/Pixie/Odin etc. all over again, but Nocturne is the better game. The Demi-Fiend is also the the most silent protagonist, so you'll have fun just because of him.

Mio Bison
Dec 14, 2005

violence is who I am, loser

If anyone who wants to claim Nocturne's difficulty is understated could please answer the following questions I'd be appreciative:

1) Did you do your first runthrough on normal?
2) Did you use a FAQ?
3) Do you have to hurt yourself to feel joy?

I play just about everything and Nocturne on Hard is the only game that has ever made me throw a controller, it's not technically difficult in that anyone can finish it with enough willpower but the random cruelty that game is willing to dish out to you is seriously messed up

Lord Banana
Nov 23, 2006


Magikoopa189 posted:

I'm about to finish Persona 4 and I have a question-which game should I play next? Would Digital Devil Saga be the next PS2 game in order of difficulty? I really want to play Nocturne, but I think I need to build myself up to it. What did most of you do? (I've finished Persona 3 as well.)

I'd just play the one that interests you most. There was still plenty of times in DDS that the game handed my rear end to me. Some random encounter will Mamuduon (instant-death that hits your whole party), you'll have forgotten to protect anyone against it, and game over. Also I'm an idiot and didn't give anyone protection from death

Personally I liked the style and story of DDS more than Nocturne, it's one of the few JRPG's I actually paid attention to the story in. Then again most Megami Tensai games are miles ahead of other JRPG's.

Flayer
Sep 13, 2003

Enjoyment and excitement


Buglord

Nocturne is one of those games where if you slip up just once you can get majorly hosed over. I remember the first time I played through it I got to a new dungeon, was carefully exploring it for about half an hour, feeling a bit sleepy so figure I should head back to a save point, I dozily cast a spell on a new enemy that pops up - boom, reflected. Instant death from full health and the last half hour or so never happened.

That's the kind of thing that will happen to you from just 1 small mistake.

It's also a game that rewards planning though. If you have a bunch of farmed up super demons with customized skill sets then you can breeze through most levels quite easily. Some of the bosses do have rather arcane weaknesses even then.

Anyone who used an FAQ even once during Nocturne kinda spoiled it tho, it's an easy game if you have the perfect demons and skill set up for each dungeon. It's not hard to break when you know what you're doing.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


Nocturne's a game that's good at making you feel stupid about how you fight some bosses. The first time I fought Thor, that bastard wiped my team out because I tried to play physical attacks against him with my team and I got my rear end soundly kicked and Trumpteter I didn't realize blew his horn in set intervals until I died several times and that he actually has specifics for who gets healed and dies when it's blown.

I remember DDS being a bit more challenging in the "Random Luck" department especially with the secret boss who is loving ridiculous even with max stats and the best mantras. I also love DDS' story and gameplay more than Nocturne's but that's an entirely different subject.

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Kagon
Jan 25, 2005




I played on normal but without an FAQ. I'm sure Hard is a lot worse, but I definitely wouldn't be recommending that to someone new to the game that's concerned about the difficulty. At the same time I'm not trying to trivialize the difficulty, but preparation goes a long way. Trying to ensure that you have all the buffs and debuffs covered when you can really makes bosses a lot easier.

That won't necessarily help the few times when you get ambushed by a new enemy and then proceed to end your first turn by using something they reflect but eh.

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