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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Mio Bison posted:

1) Did you do your first runthrough on normal?
Why wouldn't you?

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Agnostic watermelon
Jul 1, 2009

I'm a lil' Brony!

Is Nocturne even beatable without debuffs?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Thank you... and thank you!


Mio Bison posted:

If anyone who wants to claim Nocturne's difficulty is understated could please answer the following questions I'd be appreciative:

1) Did you do your first runthrough on normal?
2) Did you use a FAQ?
3) Do you have to hurt yourself to feel joy?

I play just about everything and Nocturne on Hard is the only game that has ever made me throw a controller, it's not technically difficult in that anyone can finish it with enough willpower but the random cruelty that game is willing to dish out to you is seriously messed up

I played on Normal my first time but even Hard wasn't that bad. Of course, I actually use buff and debuff spells in video games which may have an impact.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Agnostic watermelon posted:

Is Nocturne even beatable without debuffs?

Absolutely. You'd need to plan your demons and skills carefully and it'd be hard as hell at times, but it's not outwith the realms of possibility.

A lov-level/minimalist run, on the other hand...

Armor-Piercing
Sep 22, 2009

Nightly dance
of bleeding swords


I just finished off the Sector C boss and good lord was that ever an intense fight. At least, the third time, when I wasn't just slaughtered. Between the time you first encounter the boss and when you actually fight him, I did absolutely nothing to power up. All the new areas that opened up, I just talked my way through most random encounters and ran from the couple demons I didn't have.

My MC spent the whole battle defending, especially after being stunned since at that point he's in one-shot territory. The only time he stopped was to replace demons. I was co-op attacking that jerk at least twice a turn, and often three times. My first three demons ran out of mana, and I ended up replacing the whole team with some demons I hadn't even used yet. The whole team was almost killed a couple times from his AoE attack. I finally finished him off but one of his minions was still alive and my MC had next to no health and was still stunned, so I ended up using a Bead to make sure he didn't get finished off.

One of the demons I ended the battle with gained five levels.

Edit: Does sub app capacity ever increase?

Armor-Piercing fucked around with this message at Aug 13, 2011 around 23:10

Strange Matter
Oct 5, 2009

Ask me about Genocide


Baalster posted:

I remember DDS being a bit more challenging in the "Random Luck" department especially with the secret boss who is loving ridiculous even with max stats and the best mantras. I also love DDS' story and gameplay more than Nocturne's but that's an entirely different subject.
I found DDS actually pretty easy because I could just grind it into oblivion. The fact that you retain all your old skills and can combine them in anyway you want makes most battles trivial with sufficient grinding.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


That just shows I need to play the games again. I have them and I they are among my favorite Atlus games, so I should do that soon.

jonjonaug
Mar 26, 2010

by Lowtax


Kaboom Dragoon posted:

Absolutely. You'd need to plan your demons and skills carefully and it'd be hard as hell at times, but it's not outwith the realms of possibility.

I'm pretty sure it is impossible because Kagutsuchi has an attack that will do over 1000 damage even to a fully leveled party unless you have some buffs/debuffs going.

Maybe if you do the Demon ending (the one where you don't fight Kagutsuchi and the game ends with it yelling at you) and avoid the four Oni (or come back and fight those guys later at the end of the game) it might be possible.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

Nocturne was artificially more difficult for most people because it was a) the first appearance of the press turn and b) a lot of people's first Megaten game ever.

This is what leads to people getting their poo poo plowed in by Matador in the US version, as people really weren't expecting it nor were people masters of the of the summoning mechanics and the press turn system. Also the skill system probably led to people making some really dumb choices without prior knowledge of the usual Megaten spells/skills.

Once you get past Matador though there's plenty of time to master the systems. Aside from that little bump, the hardest part of Nocturne is staying awake through some of the overly long'ish dungeons and not getting one-shot by various stupid stuff. Really if you come from even playing Persona games, you should feel right at home in Nocturne (although you'll probably swear up a storm when a boss Hamas your MC and none of your demons give a poo poo :>)

Nephthys
Mar 27, 2010


Yeah, I recently purchased the game and got stuck on Matador, but I seriously wouldn't describe him as anything other than a speedbump. I know that if I grind for 4 levels, equip the Hifune magatama and get Nekomata and the other wind-immune demons then I can probably wreck his poo poo all day long.

But it was deinately a 'poo poo-just-got-real' moment when he curbstomped me, I trained and prepared and then he still curbstomped me.

U NO WUT IM SAIYAN
Jan 26, 2003

by angerbeet


So, true to my word, I have started Devil Survivor 2.

After you pick a name, you get to choose the gender of your Nicaea navigation guide. The graphics are a little better than the first one. I think the reason the female characters' breasts levitate is so they appear just above the text window, so you know which gender the characters are.

So, about the Nicaea... it's a website you access through your phone. It sends you a video clip of your own death before you die! How convenient. Inconveniently for you, though, it mails you and your two new friends as you're getting ready to board the train. All three of you are going to die in a horrific subway crash!

Then, an earthquake hits and the subway crashes into the waiting platform you're on, killing all three of you.

*cough*

Luck is on your side, though, as you meet your Nicaea guide and give death the middle finger. You get to fight the demon that you signed up to eat your soul when you made your Nicaea account! Well, that's fair.

After you enslave your new unholy minions, you go up to street level and find the city looking rather worse for wear, what with the fires and death and destruction and all.

That's probably enough for the story. I'll update on new game mechanics if/when I encounter them.

The Black Stones
May 7, 2007

COMPUTERS!
COMPUTERS!
YAAAAAAAAY!

Apparently my Zune player thinks that the Catherine soundtrack is from the Wu-Tang Clan.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


Is Yuzu in Devil Survivor 2?

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010


Baalster posted:

Is Yuzu in Devil Survivor 2?

Unless all the character art has been lying to us, no. Plenty of other females with enormous chests, though.

quote:

I think the reason the female characters' breasts levitate is so they appear just above the text window, so you know which gender the characters are.

Ah, yes. Practicality.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


Pureauthor posted:

Unless all the character art has been lying to us, no. Plenty of other females with enormous chests, though.

Didn't see any of the character art for DS2 so that's why I asked. I need to go check them out. Sucks though, Yuzu was one of my favorite characters from Devil Survivor.

EDIT



Didn't I already beat this guy in the first game?

Captain Baal fucked around with this message at Aug 16, 2011 around 15:14

Axle_Stukov
Feb 26, 2011

Stylin'


Yeah, the artist for Devil Survivor suffers from serious same-face problems. In any case that isn't Nayoa, he's Yamato, some guy in charge of a "Special" investigation unit or something.

Krad
Feb 4, 2008

Touche


Justice posted:

So, true to my word, I have started Devil Survivor 2.

So it's basically SMT: Final Destination?

saucerman
Mar 20, 2009


Axle_Stukov posted:

Yeah, the artist for Devil Survivor suffers from serious same-face problems. In any case that isn't Nayoa, he's Yamato, some guy in charge of a "Special" investigation unit or something.

And you can always tell who the bad guy is. When I saq Naoya I was like "Yup, that's the bad guy"

U NO WUT IM SAIYAN
Jan 26, 2003

by angerbeet


saucerman posted:

And you can always tell who the bad guy is. When I saq Naoya I was like "Yup, that's the bad guy"

But... Naoya was the REAL good guy

e: wow I bolded when I meant to spoiler...

Dolphin Fetus
May 31, 2006

We must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig. Cow after cow. Village after village. Army after army.

I find it kind of strange that in a series with demons so predominant, especially goetic beings, that Asmodeus has had a very limited amount of appearances in the SMT games and Persona.

Tallgeese
May 11, 2008

MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR


Justice posted:

But... Naoya was the REAL good guy

Only if you have an extremely strange definition of good guy, which includes "over-petulant manchild raging against Daddy figure" in the mix.

Also, Nicaea? As in the Council of? I wonder if that one means anything (Probably).

Grand Gigas
Jul 2, 2006

True heroes always show up late.


I don't really think you can simplify Naoya to that degree. He's not so much an over-petulant manchild as the direct result of the hubris of YHWH, who in the Megaten games is a prick who hungers for as much belief and power as he can get. And for that matter, I don't think you could consider the LAW path good at all in this game, since the bastards are kind of responsible for the whole situation to begin with, pulling the strings and trying to make the world in their own image.

U NO WUT IM SAIYAN
Jan 26, 2003

by angerbeet


Uh I don't think it's necessary to take an obvious pro-YHVH troll seriously

Ayana
Jun 29, 2010

Hee-Ho!


My biggest problem with the Law path in Devil Survivor is when Keisuke rightly points out what a giant hypocrite you're being now if you saved him earlier. It just made me feel like a complete jerk.

At least, if you're going Chaos, you're honest about the fact that you're being kind of a jerk.

That, and out of all the angels you meet, only Remiel actually gives the impression that he gives a gently caress about humanity. Seeing as he's the one you've got the most contact with, he gives a better impression of old YHWH. But you can still talk to an angel-possessed human earlier who is of the classic "gently caress humanity" mindset. Not to mention the jerkbags at the perimeter.

Catalina
May 20, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 15 hours!


I'm currently playing Devil Survivor, so for the last posts, I've had to very very quickly run my eyes down to the next post, and keep my cursor to the absolute left of the page. I'm just messing, though, I appreciate the spoiler tags!

I'm currently on day 2, and I agree with the sentiment that as soon as you see Naoya, he looks like he's going to be the Evil Bad Guy. So I'm having fun roleplaying the MC as almost completely trusting of his beloved cousin. We'll see how that pans out...

I'm also playing SMT:Imagine. My character name is Serase. I just fused my first Jack Frost. Sure, his relationship with me is "Looking to betray Serase" because I kept having the pixie parent demon die over and over while she acquired Dia...but whatever! I will spoil and love him until we are best friends for life.

Opposing Farce
Apr 1, 2010

Ever since our drop-off service, I never read a book.
There's always something else around, plus I owe the library nineteen bucks.

I don't think anybody sees Naoya for the first time without immediately assuming that he's evil.

Due to some poor decisions on my part, the Chaos and Law paths ended up being my first two endings in Devil Survivor. Naoya is a massive prick but the actual Chaos ending is pretty rad, and I actually kind of felt bad getting the Law ending because the outcome seemed really lovely.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010

AVENGER!


Grand Gigas posted:

I don't really think you can simplify Naoya to that degree. He's not so much an over-petulant manchild as the direct result of the hubris of YHWH, who in the Megaten games is a prick who hungers for as much belief and power as he can get. And for that matter, I don't think you could consider the LAW path good at all in this game, since the bastards are kind of responsible for the whole situation to begin with, pulling the strings and trying to make the world in their own image.

The problem with that however is YHWH in Devil Survivor isn't as much of a prick as he is in the other games. In Devil Survivor it is heavily implied that he didn't want to to do the trial but the angels convinced him into doing it because they're the assholes in this scenario. Naoya is every bit as much of a little poo poo as it was stated and the fact that he killed you in a previous life should only give you more incentive to say "gently caress you" when he asks you to join him.

My first ending was the Neutral ending because joining heaven or hell in one of these games is like picking which stupid way you wish to screw over humanity.

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010


Grand Gigas posted:

I don't really think you can simplify Naoya to that degree. He's not so much an over-petulant manchild as the direct result of the hubris of YHWH, who in the Megaten games is a prick who hungers for as much belief and power as he can get. And for that matter, I don't think you could consider the LAW path good at all in this game, since the bastards are kind of responsible for the whole situation to begin with, pulling the strings and trying to make the world in their own image.

Well, you might have missed it, but Naoya is only in the situation he is in because of his own hubris. He has an out - to admit that he was wrong, repent, and YHVH will let him out of the cycle of reincarnation. But he's too spiteful to ever consider doing so.

TurnipFritter
Apr 21, 2010
10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

The real badguys in Devil Survivor are the chest burster parasites that have infected all the ladies.

Radish
Aug 13, 2003



Personally I liked Survivor since I felt that no one was really balls out evil with the exception of Belberith or whatever the second to last boss was called. YWYH and the angels were brutal but they were right in that if demons escaped the lockdown it would be catastrophic to humanity. The government freaks out and does what it could in a situation where divine beings just pop into your lunch meeting and tell you about a computer server that summons monsters and that it's going to crush your entire country and they at least try and send in a Spec Ops unit to solve the issue without using the final option. The cult leader that caused it all is even trying to free people from what he considers the Sword of Damocles hovering over all our heads that could fall at any moment if we get too smart.

The angels are also honorable enough that if you solve the problem without making the hero the Messiah they and the government remove the lock down as long as demons aren't running crazy, even if you take the Atsuro "control demons for the good of humanity" ending. In any other SMT game they would have found that unacceptable (although you do get the "we're still watching..." email).

It was a nice change of pace from "Law wants everyone to be drones and chaos wants the eternal kumite"."

Grand Gigas
Jul 2, 2006

True heroes always show up late.


Pureauthor posted:

Well, you might have missed it, but Naoya is only in the situation he is in because of his own hubris. He has an out - to admit that he was wrong, repent, and YHVH will let him out of the cycle of reincarnation. But he's too spiteful to ever consider doing so.

Oh, that I know. But still, I don't find his refusal to say sorry as childish. It makes sense that'd he'd be mad, since biblically, God refused his sacrifice only because it was vegetables, and God looooves blood. I mean, there are some versions that point out his crops being lovely, but whose fault is that?
But really, I just always side with Chaos in these games, because I have a weakness for the crazy, evil anarchy that comes. The only time I didn't prefer the Chaos ending was in Strange Journey, where I just loved the Neutral one. Mostly because of that awesome computer AI whose name escapes me.

Agnostic watermelon
Jul 1, 2009

I'm a lil' Brony!

Grand Gigas posted:

Oh, that I know. But still, I don't find his refusal to say sorry as childish. It makes sense that'd he'd be mad, since biblically, God refused his sacrifice only because it was vegetables, and God looooves blood. I mean, there are some versions that point out his crops being lovely, but whose fault is that?



What, really? It not even like he's going to loving eat them anyway so why would that matter?

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008


Agnostic watermelon posted:

What, really? It not even like he's going to loving eat them anyway so why would that matter?

God is kind of an rear end in a top hat. (Both in the Bible AND in SMT games!)

Opposing Farce
Apr 1, 2010

Ever since our drop-off service, I never read a book.
There's always something else around, plus I owe the library nineteen bucks.

To be honest the main thing I don't like about the Chaos path is how Naoya insists on being a shady, manipulative rear end in a top hat and won't actually explain what's going on even in his ending.

I mean he could just say "hey bro let's go kill god" and I'd be down with that. He doesn't have to make me jump through all those hoops.

Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at Aug 19, 2011 around 13:35

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010


It's pretty much a Biblical thing that only blood is capable of washing away sin.

Regardless, 'refusing vegetables as a sacrifice' still ranks way lower in the Dick Move scale than 'murdering your brother'.

Radish
Aug 13, 2003



Grand Gigas posted:

Oh, that I know. But still, I don't find his refusal to say sorry as childish. It makes sense that'd he'd be mad, since biblically, God refused his sacrifice only because it was vegetables, and God looooves blood. I mean, there are some versions that point out his crops being lovely, but whose fault is that?
But really, I just always side with Chaos in these games, because I have a weakness for the crazy, evil anarchy that comes. The only time I didn't prefer the Chaos ending was in Strange Journey, where I just loved the Neutral one. Mostly because of that awesome computer AI whose name escapes me.

Well regardless of if Noaya/Cain's sacrifice was spurned rightfully or not, killing his brother over it really is his own fault entirely. I got that the apology YHWH wanted was more about that than being butt hurt that blood is apparently better than turnips.

Spoilering the bible feels really weird by the way.

EDIT: According to Wikipedia a version of the Cain and Abel story is about Cain being jealous of Abel's twin sister which Abel was supposed to marry. That's more Atlus than Atlus...

Radish fucked around with this message at Aug 19, 2011 around 13:56

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



So, since Overclocked comes out on Tuesday, have any reviewers or people who got copies early commented on just how beefy the extra day is? I heard that it was supposed to be more a continuation based on your ending rather than just "bonus content" but I don't know if that was just fan speculation or not.

Radish
Aug 13, 2003



Do Atlus games still disappear if you don't buy them within the first week? I don't plan on getting a 3DS anytime soon but want to play Overclocked eventually.

HarveyVdarski
Aug 19, 2011

by Pipski


No, and there are a few websites where you can stillmget fairly old Atlus games for fair prices. I found brand new copies of Nocturne on a site. Picked up one of those babies faster than you can burn your bread.

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Radish
Aug 13, 2003



Awesome I'll probably just wait on that one then, thanks.

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