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studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

This was in the roguelike thread, but maybe some people here would be interested?

http://demon.ferretdev.org/

It's a in-development roguelike that was originally based on SMT. It's even got demon negotiation!!

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studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Comparing ryuji to junpei and yosuke is a mistake, because joker's Good Bro Who Sucks rear end is morgana, actually

if original persona 3 hadn't been too scared to let you s-link the male party members, junpei would 100% have been the magician.

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

TDE is the best ending, and definitely the canon one considering the easter egg in DDS, imo.

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

MonsieurChoc posted:

Lol there's no such thing as canon.

i mean yeah but listen let me dream in the world where permanent revolution against god is the reality.


NikkolasKing posted:

I should mention that the special ability you need to defeat the TDE final boss is locked behind I think a Level 95 door. Well it's more like you need to be Level 95 to fuse the demon that lets you through the door to get the ability.

The strongest normal enemies in the game are high Level 70s or maybe just Level 80. You will be grinding for a long, long time to get to a high enough Level to fuse that demon, open that door and get that ability.

Persona 3 was somehow smarter than Nocturne and Strange Journey in that it gave you a dedicated grinding spot.

95 is just to get it on your demons, not the demi-fiend. honestly you can do that fight around level 80 and be fine

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Booky posted:

:dadjoke:

https://twitter.com/grahamsig/status/1260367166953660422

at first i thought the guide was for the PSX version of innocent sin, before i checked and realized the PSP version of IS came out like 9 years ago :stare:

(also i like the Freedom ending for nocturne the best!)

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Namnesor posted:

I would outright sacrifice modern Persona if it meant Raidou got a new entry with Persona 5's budget.

same. justice for raidou

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Making P3P actually available to play for most people would be really nice at least

minako is the superior protagonist, and more people should understand this

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

jet li's The One but its minako ripping her way into every persona side game to kill minato and absorb his power

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Its the spear that really sets her ahead, honestly

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Also, her being a girl has an effect on just all of the incidental ways the party members interact with you

junpei definitely shows his rear end a lot more instead of just being Your Kinda lovely Bro, and mitsuru and yukari feel more solidarity with you

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Apocalypse is good because you start the game inside of someone else's lategame smt4 playthrough, and having the context for what SHOULD be happening makes it really fun.


but they're both great, imo

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Yeah, the thing about Sae isn't that she's actively rigging cases, its that she knows the system is rigged against defendants, and that she's both the beneficiary of the rigged systems and also being crushed by it. She doesn't have to rig them, it's done for her.

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Persona 5, to me, is a land of contrasts,

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

The confusion about Sae's palace would be resolved if you played a phoenix wright game, honestly

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Gen. Ripper posted:

It's almost like the point of the game is that hardship and getting hosed over by Living In A Society isn't an excuse to turn into a power-hungry psychopath, and the good guys are good because they don't do that. :thunk:

If Persona 5 wasn't bending over backwards to absolve Sae from the slightest bit of consequences, she'd have been right next to Akechi in that boiler room screaming WHY IS ATTIC TRASH LIKE YOU MORE SPECIAL THAN ME, WHY DO YOU HAVE THINGS I DON'T.

Sae's personal resolution at the end of the game is legitimately one of the only satisfying character resolutions, though? She explicitly does what she can to help you on the way out, but otherwise completely abandons the system that is rigged in her favor to take on the lovely, sisyphean task of being a defense attorney on the losing end of said rigged system.

So much of where P5 shits the bed is about incrementalism and 'changing from within!', and Sae explicitly doesn't do that, so I gotta say seeing people's vitriolic reaction to her arc is wild. It's like the only resolution they ACTUALLY get right.

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Gen. Ripper posted:

Makoto didn't become a Sae clone

I love Makoto dearly, but I gotta say, her entire wrap up is "I'm going to join the system and reform it from the inside!" It's absolutely worse than Sae's, she completely capitulates to the system of rigged law that Sae rejects in her finale.

It cannot be overstated enough how much you've picked like the only plot beat in p5 most people don't have any issue with

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

the dream is that chie abandons being a cop after the events of ultimax to be a weird martial arts vagrant with akihiko imo

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

The secret of p5 is that ryuji isn't the successor to junpei and yosuke, it's morgana

The magician is the "your lovely bro" arcana

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Maybe I'm misremembering some stuff but there's absolutely nothing in my mind that Ryuji does that's worse than the poo poo Yosuke gets up to, honestly. I don't buy anyone except Yu or Teddie staying friends with Yosuke after the events of p4, whereas the idea that the p5 cast stays friends seems relatively plausible.

Again, they seem like they offloaded some of the baggage of that onto Morgana, who's just unrelentingly grody to Ann. Whereas Ann and Ryuji have kind of a nice teen friendship.

edit: this is all couched in the baseline that persona writes all of their teen boys like it's a decades old teen comedy, to be clear. ryuji still can be a creep sometimes, but yosuke fuckin' SUCKED in a much bigger way at key points.

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

See I never felt like Ryuji needed to apologize for his side in that feud for the same reason that I really hated the rivalry plot beat between them: Morgana just wins every time. He's clearly written as smarter and more clever, and he just shits on Ryuji for no reason, and Ryuji really only is capable of two comebacks: that he's a cat, and that he's, uh, stupid. It always read as super one-sided to me.

Anyway Ryuji is also saved by not like, having junpei's weird "carrying a printer to a goth girl's hospital room" plot, so in conclusion protect our sweet dumb boy

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Also it's always been super weird to me that Morgana's plot just.....................goes nowhere? I'll spoil this, obviously, but it's the series' weirdest anticlimax.

Him being the 'last dregs of Igor's resistance' or however the game puts it just........is nothing. Teddie's revelation as a shadow is interesting because it's novel and sort of hits the same self-actualization beats the rest of the game has been harping on, but Morgana just repeats the same beats without the themes. If they had spent all the time he spends being horny and insulting Ryuji with him radicalizing the Phantom Thieves into being more and more revolutionary, that'd at least make sense, but even when he's fufilling his role he just gets............horny for treasure. Incredibly weird.

Seeing how Royal plays out has brought back all of my weird frustrations with how close that game gets to good ideas before chickening out.

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Gen. Ripper posted:

I don't care how many times the game uses Makoto as a mouthpiece to tell me how Sae is a pure innocent angel who only wants to house every homeless kitten and orphaned puppy in Japan if 90% of her actual screentime is spent veering between "self-righteous, condescending prick" and "remorseless psychopath".

jesus christ dude

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

More scenes of the party members interacting without the MC would go a long way, too. the team-up moves in royal are cool as hell, because you can start to sort of see what the relationship between those characters would be like

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

morgana and teddie being insanely jealous of koromaru because every character loves him more than them is the best plot thread any of those three have been involved in

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

chie is a child victim of copaganda and until she gets a badge she's free of sin

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Every game tends to get part of it right, but I think the general ideal writing should present the law and chaos routes as essentially being the best you can achieve with the tools you're given. You're told the world is done for, so try to do the best with what little is left.

the neutral endings tend to be one of two things, or ideally both: the kicking the can down the road ending, and the ending where you realize that the tools you're given are fake and make your own.

every game seems to either get law or chaos right, but rarely both at the same time. A lot of it boils down to your relationship with the npc, it's why SJ's chaos route was more tempting. love jimenez and bugaboo.

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

In an ideal world, and again I think different games tend to hit this pretty well, Law and Chaos are both absolutely reasonable reactions to discovering that magic and demons and angels are real. They're survival methods without long-term ideology. I havent gotten too far into redux, but original sj is a good example

Chaos is about realizing that all that power exists, and that you're one of the weakest things on the totem pole, cosmically, and just arming up. You end up in the terrible might makes right world because that's what already exists. demons will just straight up eat you, so get strong enough that they can't. it's just not a philosophy that really scales in any way.

Law is about finding safety where it exists. Demons will straight up eat you, and everyone you know can't get strong enough to stop them, so accept the offer to be safe in the walls of heaven. I actually think Zelenin gets a bad rap in this regard. She's a real rear end in a top hat about bugaboo, sure, but when you remember that her experience in the Schwartzwelt didn't start with her getting the demon software, but instead getting jailed and watching everyone get tortured to death, you can sort of understand why she's more inclined to the solution that seems to be about safety over personal power.

It's why I've always really liked the games that at least TRY to present the two routes as reasonable, even if they're ultimately flawed and you shouldn't pick them.

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

i name them all raidou kuzunoha


atlus please bring my boy home

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Game dev is hard, and this is definitely from poor management but a lot of Royal felt like it should've been in the base game, honestly.

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

anyone who wants to create a new op needs to get a demonic sponsor first, everyone knows this

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

we need p5 arena so they can stop being cowards and give us the three years later versions of the p4 cast, like we got with the SEES crew

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

the secret is that ryuji isnt the yosuke/junpei of p5, morgana is.

the magician s-link is always 'Your Best Friend (Who Sucks rear end)"

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

morgana just feels like a complete retread of every single teddie story beat, but worse and hornier. i have no idea what they were going for with him.

even learning the big secret about him ended up being one of the big anticlimaxes of the game, it means nothing and doesn't change anything about his character

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

yusuke is a huge weirdo too and seems completely unfazed by it, its way different than the genuinely mean morgana/ryuji stuff

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

The problem, to me, is that generally I think the most enticing way to write a law ending ends up being used as the "neutral-bad" ending: a return to the status quo. YHVH and the archangels represent the universe's order as it stands right now, so it'd make the most sense for them to represent a return to things being 'normal.' Nocturne I think has cooler ideas about alignment than other games, but the Freedom ending there is something I think of as being a Law ending, ideologically. The focus on mass genocide always ends up making them kind of cartoonish, it'd be much easier to pitch it as a highly stratified society, administrated by angels.

I never did the law routes in devil survivor, but they seemed to be getting closer to this than the standard thousand year kingdom stuff other games do. I'm a big fan of the way most of the games handle the neutral endings, but it's always fun to have law and chaos at least make a tempting pitch.

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

devil survivor 1/2 are both good as hell. the designs are generally pretty great, but I lol every time I remember this picture



the septentriones have truly destroyed gravity

studio mujahideen fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Feb 5, 2021

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

raidou kicks rear end

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

I name all of my persona MCs raidou so that I can pretend they're the sequels atlus will never give us

studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

Blockhouse posted:

You can change the setting all you want but we're still running into the problem that Raidou Kuzunoha is not a brand that moves numbers and there's no compelling reason for Atlus to bring it back

and yet,

YggiDee posted:

Spinoff starring the time-travelling demon-summoning android, Rasputin.

Raidou games rules, thats the only reason atlus should need

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studio mujahideen
May 3, 2005

is leveling lategame a pain, or should i just burn gospels when i get them (on a fresh level ofc)

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