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burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

Tomn posted:

Not that I advocate switching courses at this point in the game, but couldn't defensive work out hypothetically if you largely ignore battles entirely, letting enemies win costly sieges only to slip in behind them and rapidly counter-siege with artillery, thus constantly attriting the enemy to death until they're weak enough for your own relatively weaker forces to pounce and destroy them?

I actually did something like this in a game I played as the Byzantines in a war against a unified France. I never modernized, so I had a huge tech disadvantage, but because France kept sending soldiers via boat, I could afford to keep taking back my provinces and scorching them as I went. I eventually had to release Crete to get France to leave me alone, but in exchange, France was reduced to 5 disjointed provinces due to rebels. It works if the AI can't quickly send infinite reinforcements.

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Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

uPen posted:

The defensive slider is pretty much objectively better unless you're handicapping yourself like Wiz is.

That may be true in vanilla, but I don't think that's true in my mod and I didn't go offensive to handicap myself.

code:
offensive_defensive = {
	artillery_cost = -0.05
	land_morale = -0.04
	defensiveness = 0.05
	
	left_specific = {
		artillery_cost = 0.05
		leader_fire = 0.2
		leader_shock = 0.2	
	}
	right_specific = {
		land_morale = -0.02
		leader_siege = 0.2
	}
Mainly I went offensive for the leader fire / leader shock becasue I realized early that we'd be outnumbered in most wars and I wanted every possible leader advantage. It's worked out pretty well so far and I really don't see that defensive would be better in our situation.

berryjon
May 30, 2011

I have an invasion to go to.

Wiz posted:

Which doesn't work very well when you're a 20-province country facing an enemy that can lose massive amounts of troops without suffering much in war exhaustion and has something like -15 revolt risk from sliders and ideas.

That's a pretty large hit to the Revolt risk. Although I suppose it's natural with a nation with as many provinces as they do (even the poor ones) to work to keep it all together like that.

Can you tell us what the NI's of Armenia and Russia are at this point?

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Wiz posted:

That may be true in vanilla, but I don't think that's true in my mod and I didn't go offensive to handicap myself.

I am really looking forward to playing this.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

berryjon posted:

That's a pretty large hit to the Revolt risk. Although I suppose it's natural with a nation with as many provinces as they do (even the poor ones) to work to keep it all together like that.

Can you tell us what the NI's of Armenia and Russia are at this point?

Russia: National Conscripts, Grand Army,Church Attendance Duty, Quest for the new World, Bureaucracy, Vetting, National Bank, Smithian Economics (worth noting that they're going for State NIs hard in order to reduce the adminstrative penalties for their huge territory). They also have serfdom at max and aren't too centralized, both of which reduce revolt risk.

Armenia: Military Drill, Ecumenism, Humanist Tolerance, Grand Army, Patron of Art, Superior Seamanship, Engineer Corps.

Patter Song
Mar 26, 2010

Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.
Fun Shoe
Is Vetting still useless in Wizmod? I know you beefed up the other NIs.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Patter Song posted:

Is Vetting still useless in Wizmod? I know you beefed up the other NIs.

Gives +25% spy defense and -2.5 revolt risk, so no. I don't think there are any useless ideas in WizMod.

Actually let me grab some screenshots of all the ideas since this comes up pretty often.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost
Okay, here is a screenshot album containing all the ideas and sliders for easy reference when you wonder if something is different to vanilla or not (hint it always almost is).

BrooklynBruiser
Aug 20, 2006

Wiz posted:

Okay, here is a screenshot album containing all the ideas and sliders for easy reference when you wonder if something is different to vanilla or not (hint it always almost is).

I cannot tell you how much I want to play this mod, Wiz.

Thug Lessons
Dec 14, 2006


I lust in my heart for as many dead refugees as possible.

Wiz posted:

Okay, here is a screenshot album containing all the ideas and sliders for easy reference when you wonder if something is different to vanilla or not (hint it always almost is).

Why do so many ideas have a 'Is Not AI' requirement? It also seems the AI actually has some of those ideas on your earlier list. Are they added via event under specific circumstances?

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Thug Lessons posted:

Why do so many ideas have a 'Is Not AI' requirement? It also seems the AI actually has some of those ideas on your earlier list. Are they added via event under specific circumstances?

The AI has access to all ideas, the 'Is not AI' is there to prevent them from picking ideas themselves so they instead use my weighted event system to pick ideas.

BrooklynBruiser
Aug 20, 2006

Wiz posted:

The AI has access to all ideas, the 'Is not AI' is there to prevent them from picking ideas themselves so they instead use my weighted event system to pick ideas.

It's nigh-criminal that Paradox doesn't have you officially fix their games for them.

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART
With as much as you've improved the game using hackey solutions with the text files, I'd love to see what you'd be capable of with access to the source code.

logger
Jun 28, 2008

...and in what manner the Ancyent Marinere came back to his own Country.
Soiled Meat
I know I don't know everything about the mechanics of EU3, but isn't National Trade Policy way better than Shrewd Commerce Practices in this mod? If I remember correctly each percent of trade efficiency gives you half a percent of compete chance and merchant placement chance, so the actual total is:

Shrewd Commerce / Trade Policy
Efficiency: 5% / %15
Effective Merchant Chance: 7.5% / 7.5%
Effective Compete Chance: 7.5% / 7.5%
Trade Tech Cost: 0% / -10%

There is nothing that Shrewd Commerce Practices does that National Trade Policy doesn't do equally or better, and National Trade Policy reduces the tech cost on top of all of that. Are you going to do anything in the final release to make Shrewd Commerce Practices more appealing to take?

Sorry about the :spergin:

logger fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Jan 7, 2012

Zero grinder
Sep 25, 2010
Fun Shoe

Wiz posted:

The AI has access to all ideas, the 'Is not AI' is there to prevent them from picking ideas themselves so they instead use my weighted event system to pick ideas.

You're amazing.

cwDeici
Oct 29, 2011

by Ozmaugh

BklynBruzer posted:

It's nigh-criminal that Paradox doesn't have you officially fix their games for them.

Hear-hear...! maybe we should encourage Wiz to get in touch with them, if he likes the idea.

berryjon
May 30, 2011

I have an invasion to go to.

Wiz posted:

Russia: National Conscripts, Grand Army,Church Attendance Duty, Quest for the new World, Bureaucracy, Vetting, National Bank, Smithian Economics (worth noting that they're going for State NIs hard in order to reduce the adminstrative penalties for their huge territory). They also have serfdom at max and aren't too centralized, both of which reduce revolt risk.

Interesting. Seems very historical all around save the Smithian Economics. I can't help but wonder if this Russia will suffer the same failures as the historical Russia leading upto the October Revolution.

Wiz posted:

Armenia: Military Drill, Ecumenism, Humanist Tolerance, Grand Army, Patron of Art, Superior Seamanship, Engineer Corps.

Humanist Tolerance and Patron of Art? Really? How much does Azeri's choice of NI's affect theirs, or all their neighbours, really?

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

logger posted:

I know I don't know everything about the mechanics of EU3, but isn't National Trade Policy way better than Shrewd Commerce Practices in this mod? If I remember correctly each percent of trade efficiency gives you half a percent of compete chance and merchant placement chance, so the actual total is:

Shrewd Commerce / Trade Policy
Efficiency: 5% / %15
Effective Merchant Chance: 7.5% / 7.5%
Effective Compete Chance: 7.5% / 7.5%
Trade Tech Cost: 0% / -10%

There is nothing that Shrewd Commerce Practices does that National Trade Policy doesn't do equally or better, and National Trade Policy reduces the tech cost on top of all of that. Are you going to do anything in the final release to make Shrewd Commerce Practices more appealing to take?

Sorry about the :spergin:

Trade Efficiency doesn't affect compete chance in WizMOD.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost


Chapter 32: Enlightenment (1660 - 1670)

Mürsel Daei is a ruler heavily inspired by the Western ideas of the Enlightenment. He views himself as an enlightened monarch, endowed with a sacred duty from Allah to uplift his people and turn Azerbaijan into a world power. The cautious, plodding government of the Shura chafes at him and he dreams of abolishing the electoral rights of the nobility and creating a Daei dynasty to rival the Ildeguzid and Najjar dynasties. But despite his father's plotting, the Shura is still strong and Mürsel is a young ruler, unproven and without much popular support.

Thus, when Armenia gets itself involved in a long, grinding war with Bulgaria he sees his chance to neutralize his enemies and expand Azerbaijan's power in one fell swoop.


The army is sent to the border and war is declared against Armenia.


The Armenian army is large and powerful, but the country's population is already exhausted and impoverished from years of inconclusive warfare and now the Armenians have to fight on two fronts.


The overconfident Armenians send an army into Trapezus, where it is met by a much larger Azeri force. The Armenians are defeated, routed and wiped out as the Azeri army pursues them across the border.



This defeat seems to put the Armenians on the defensive, and they withdraw their armies west, allowing Azeri troops to slowly advance into Armenian territory unchecked.


Slow and steady progress is not good enough for Mürsel, and he orders his generals to make an all-out attack on the Armenian capital. The Armenian King himself leads the army defending Adana, and the battle is hard-fought, though in the end superior Azeri numbers win the day.



Retreating to lick their wounds, the Armenians return a few months later with an army of 21000 men, attacking the Azeri armies in Seleukia. There, in what would become known to the Azeri historians as 'a second Sharizor', the Armenian army collapses into disarray during the first hours of the battle. General Ishak orders his reserves to attack the disorganized Armenians, achieving a complete victory and the almost complete destruction of the Armenian army.


With nothing but a few thousand Armenian and Rhodian troops left between Azerbaijan and the Aegean Sea, the remaining war is little more than a mop-up operation. The Armenians make increasingly desperate peace offers, and though the Shura advises Mürsel to accept, the young Sultan will settle for nothing less than total victory.


In the end, peace is settled entirely on Mürsel's terms, with Armenia forced to cede a full half of its territory to Azerbaijan. It is a victory quite unlike any in recent Azeri history, the single largest territorial gain from a single war since the days of the Ildeguzids.


For Mürsel, it is an immense personal triumph that immediately cements his popularity with the masses. Exploiting his newfound power, he quickly begins arresting his political enemies in the Shura on charges of corruption.


Having suffered numerous pretender and separatist revolts over the last decades, the government of Egypt finally collapses and the Nubians and Tunisians declare their own independent states.


The truce with Russia expires in 1668. Later in the same year, a letter from the Tsar arrives in which he decries Azerbajian aggression and expansionism and explains his holy duty to protect Orthodox Christians everywhere, warning that Russia will not simply sit idly by and let Azerbaijan conquer all of anatolia.


In response, Mürsel summons the Polish diplomats and renews the Polish-Azeri alliance.


Mürsel's efforts to consolidate his power at the expense of the Shura continues as he abolishes several government positions and transfers their power to the person of the Sultan, in direct violation of the agreements he signed in exchange for taking the throne.


He summons many Western thinkers to Tabriz, and corresponds frequently with the most important Enlightenment thinkers in Italy, France and Germany. At nights, he is known to meet in seclusion with a small clique of philosophers, progressive young aristocrats and Jesuit priests to discuss the future of Azerbaijan. Finally, as the year turns to 1670 he unveils his grand plan.


As the Shura is in the midst of its decadely session to form the governance policies in Azerbaijan, Sultan Mürsel marches into the hall and makes a shocking proclamation: The abolishment of the Elective Monarchy and the creation of a Constitutional Monarchy of Western model, with the Daei dynasty as hereditary rulers. The Shura is allowed to keep some of its power and continue to function as a parliament of sorts, with the responsibilities of creating laws and deciding on new taxes. Freedom of religion is written into the new constitution, and the Millets are given increased autonomy and rights to govern the members of their own faith.




Such is the popularity and power of the young Sultan that none among the assembled bureaucrats, governors, generals and ministers dare protest As the initial shock of the proclamation settles, Mürsel bids the Shura to continue its deliberations, bringing forth three proposals for internal reform that he feels would greatly benefit Azerbaijan.

:siren: When voting, use one of the following three icons to indicate which option you prefer :siren:





code:
[img]http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/images/azeri_lp/icona.png[/img]
[img]http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/images/azeri_lp/iconb.png[/img]
[img]http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/images/azeri_lp/iconc.png[/img]
EDIT: There was a bit of a National Bank vs Smithian Economics argument going on for a few pages. To save everyone having to slog through it, here is my summary.

quote:

So to summarize:

Smithian Economics will improve tech/stability investment by ~10% and money in treasury by a bit less than that. It will also speed up production tech another 10% on top of that.

National Bank will either let me slowly chip away at inflation or increase minting, substantially increasing income to treasury in exchange for a bit less tech investment.

If you just want a direct income boost and faster tech, pick Smithian Economics. If you want me to invest in buildings, pick National Bank.

That's the gist of it.

Option A: National Bank
The long wars have not been kind to Azerbaijan's currency, and inflation is at record high levels. Though it has been proposed and voted down a number of times, Mürsel nonetheless feels that the creation of a Central Islamic Bank would do much to sanitize the economy. (Inflation is at 16)


Option B: Smithian Economics
The Azeri economy is not what it could be, especially after the Shura ended the Najjar land reforms. By adopting the latest economic policies favored in Enlightenment Europe, Mürsel believes that Azerbaijan can strengthen its income and help support the country's large army.


Option C: Vetting
The Azeri bureaucracy is almost Byzantine in its size and complexity, and corruption and bribery is an everyday occurance. By instituting an internal security agency to vet officials, Mürsel hopes to prevent foreign influence over Azeri officials, keep corruption in check and reduce the abuses of the common people by greedy governors and magistrates.


Vote ends January 8th, 4am EST.



Wiz fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jan 7, 2012

Gorgo Primus
Mar 29, 2009

We shall forge the most progressive republic ever known to man!


Let Enlightened Despotism lead us into a new golden age of industry and progress!

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat


A wealthy nation can afford becoming a tolerant nation.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost
While it doesn't affect this vote directly, I should probably point out that hitting Government Tech 30 has some major effects. For one, it disables the religious Casus Bellis (Holy War, Cleansing of Heresy) so we can no longer declare war on different religion neighbours with impunity. In exchange, it unlocks the Nationalism CB (which lets us take Turkic culture provinces held by non-Turkic culture countries) and the Imperialism CB (which lets us declare war on any non Muslim tech group country, but is only available to colonial powers).

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands
That was...entirely more successful than I had ever dared hope. Long live Sultan Mursel! Long live the Daei dynasty! A thousand blessings upon General Ishak Nyuan!

But let the Sultan remember that he is still mortal, and that it is time to digest these gains and grow the internal strength of the country, not to seek more glory in further foreign adventures. We have done well enough, and now is the time to seal the stamp upon the Mursel golden age by bringing our people unprecedented prosperity.

I like all the offered options, and although I'm not sure that it'd be all that useful right now, I've some fondness for Vetting thanks to the way it was described. I am tempted, very tempted to go for National Bank due to both our high inflation and the fact that time may be running out for that old warhorse of an idea. But ultimately, I think, Azerbaijan's long-term interests will be best served by economic investment, and so I must choose...

Recent discussion has changed my mind. We need more money for internal development, so let's invest in a bank!

Tomn fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jan 7, 2012

ferroque
Oct 27, 2007



We should really already have this.

karmicknight
Aug 21, 2011


I predict that this voting session will end up in a race between the modern economic thinking presented by the European economics and the Central Islamic Bank. While the Islamic Bank would have and will be a perfectly acceptable addition to the Sultanate, I feel that it is in the best interests of the Shura to vote for the modern and innovative economic models coming in from Europe. As the Russian Bear also holds these modern economic doctrines, and we must not allow the Bear to be better or more innovative than us in any capacity save dying.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe
Ha, we tolerated the bloody gently caress out of those Armenians. Finally Glorious Azerbaijan has returned to the halcyon days of old when Azeri armies crushed all that stood before them.

As for the vote:



I think that getting inflation under control is the most important thing right now. Our Anatolian conquests should shore up our econmic base, but inflation can wreck an economy of any size.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...


Now that we've crushed our ancient rival, it's time to look back to the situation at home. Inflation will destroy us if it is not dealt with now. As nice as the research bonus is, we can do nothing with the technology if we have no money to spend on it.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Holy poo poo, that was VERY a satisfyingly all-ups update. Huge territorial gains, tech advances, and MORE TOLERANCE. Wow. I cannot wait for the other shoe to drop. That Polish alliance promises interesting times...

Wiz posted:

and the Imperialism CB (which lets us declare war on any non Muslim tech group country, but is only available to colonial powers).
What is the definition of a "colonial power" in your mod?

My Shura vote is a resounding



Sixteen inflation, guys. SIX-TEEN. Bitter, bitter sixteen. To use a real-world image, we're 60% of the way to the conventionally defined boundary of hyperinflation.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost
The definition of Colonial Power is that you have taken the Colonial Initiative decision, which requires a naval NI (we have all the other requirements).

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands
For the record, one reason I'm voting for Smithian Economics is because I'm hoping that aside from the benefits of the idea itself, choosing that path will affect the Sultan's decisions regarding sliders as well, particularly the serfdom/free subjects one.

Retarded Goatee
Feb 6, 2010
I spent :10bux: so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.


Money is good.

Slow Loris
Nov 7, 2005

Please sir, may I have some more?


B is the Best choice; sixteen inflation is still not that high, and I'm sure we can get it down without National Bank. Also, like Tomn said, I think this should influence the Sultan towards a better direction for the Azeri economy. Smithian Economics will help us develop a mercantile class, which will pay off in Dividends of Freedom & Prosperity & Development & Modernity.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Looking at the 1650 update, our economy is already heavily production-based (so focusing there is a good idea) and choosing Smithian Economics gives our economy an immediate boost instead of merely slowly preventing inflation from getting worse in the background. With a stronger economy, the inflation simply becomes less significant.

paragon1
Nov 22, 2010

FULL COMMUNISM NOW

-10% production tech cost. I can't walk away from that.

Lord Hypnostache
Nov 6, 2009

OATHBREAKER
I don't really know if this is the best option, but it has good arguments for it and I'm inclined to agree.

Zero grinder
Sep 25, 2010
Fun Shoe
Smithian economics, national bank, smithian economics, national bank, gently caress i can't decide! I think inflation is getting a bit out of hand at this point, so im voting for:

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008



This is the road to industrialism!

This is the road to modernisation!

This is the road to... TRAINS!

(What have I become :ohdear:)

meatbag
Apr 2, 2007
Clapping Larry


This will help all our technological progress, not just production.

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ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021


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