|
The Saurus posted:Autonomous Oblasts for all. I hope we don't purge so many people 
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2013 22:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 20:19 |
|
|
quote:
This flag is amusingly hideous and actually fairly similar to the ill-conceived pennants that many real world revolutionary states would use. We have to keep it. Kainser posted:I'm sure we can go Maximum Stalin to deal with the whole ethnic diversity problem. Actually, Stalin probably caused more ethnic strife than he resolved. Many of his purges targeted regional Communist organizations on the suspicion that they might be fomenting nationalism. This had the effect of crippling many of the regional soviets, replacing devoted Communists with shameless opportunists, and souring the locals to rule from Moscow. Just yet another reason his rule was disastrous for the USSR.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2013 23:19
|
|
|
Duckbag posted:Actually, Stalin probably caused more ethnic strife than he resolved. Many of his purges targeted regional Communist organizations on the suspicion that they might be fomenting nationalism. This had the effect of crippling many of the regional soviets, replacing devoted Communists with shameless opportunists, and souring the locals to rule from Moscow. Just yet another reason his rule was disastrous for the USSR. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2013 23:35
|
|
|
Yeah, that was kinda the point. Honestly historical analogues are kinda hard to apply to Azerbaijan/Anatolia since the Azeris aren't even a plurality in the nation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2013 23:45
|
|
|
Duckbag posted:This flag is amusingly hideous and actually fairly similar to the ill-conceived pennants that many real world revolutionary states would use. We have to keep it. Yeah, I love that flag since it's exactly what a bunch of Cascadian communists would probably come up with for a flag if they suddenly found themselves in charge of a country.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2013 01:40
|
|
|
Rincewind posted:Yeah, I love that flag since it's exactly what a bunch of Cascadian communists would probably come up with for a flag if they suddenly found themselves in charge of a country. Hey, I'll have you know we'd probably....do exactly that, or perhaps put some kind of red pine tree on it or something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2013 02:23
|
|
|
I'm not sure what I should be feeling for having created the Worst Flag of Flagchat. In my defense, I was basing it off of terrible socialist slogan banners from the late 19th Century, and the color scheme only makes sense with the other lovely banners I made for Cascadia. Also I sucked at using GIMP back then.* Speaking of Communist flags, here are some new ones for Russia I had laying around since I hated my original attempt and I liked the Cyrilic calligraphy on some of the original Soviet flags. It's not a delta, but it's not an immediately recognizable Bolshevik design.   *(I still suck at using GIMP.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2013 05:07
|
|
|
^^^ If the real USSR had a flag that sweet maybe they would have stuck around ^^^frankenfreak posted:Can't speak for Kainser, but I suppose I guess this is the part where I'm supposed to say something defensive about how hard it is to spot sarcasm on the internet, but I'm just not feeling it 
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2013 06:05
|
|
|
Spiderfist Island posted:I'm not sure what I should be feeling for having created the Worst Flag of Flagchat. In my defense, I was basing it off of terrible socialist slogan banners from the late 19th Century, and the color scheme only makes sense with the other lovely banners I made for Cascadia. Also I sucked at using GIMP back then.* Some boss flags. Also kind of makes sense - since this timeline's Russia was born in the fires of revolution to begin with, it makes sense that a Communist movement would try to evoke the spirit of the original revolution by making use of a modified version of the classic revolutionary flag.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2013 07:17
|
|
|
Spiderfist Island posted:I'm not sure what I should be feeling for having created the Worst Flag of Flagchat. In my defense, I was basing it off of terrible socialist slogan banners from the late 19th Century, and the color scheme only makes sense with the other lovely banners I made for Cascadia. Also I sucked at using GIMP back then.* I REALLY love the red one. Screw the delta, goofy Cyrillic is best.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2013 14:18
|
|
|
Kainser posted:. We are the Afrikaners of this universe.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2013 16:02
|
|
|
QuoProQuid posted:Azerbaijan will have the most efficient trains in the world and the most inefficient political system. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2013 18:45
|
|
|
FadingChord posted:We are the Afrikaners of this universe. Nah, more like the Austrians within the 19th century Habsburg monarchy, a relict of medieval politics rather than of imperialism.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2013 22:50
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:Nah, more like the Austrians within the 19th century Habsburg monarchy, a relict of medieval politics rather than of imperialism.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 02:29
|
|
|
They gave landed the vote I think, so only aristocrats and capitalists, so only Azeri and Turk. So thats how they elected a limited citizenship party.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 02:49
|
|
|
run DNC posted:They gave landed the vote I think, so only aristocrats and capitalists, so only Azeri and Turk. So thats how they elected a limited citizenship party.  We're Weighted Wealth, which means that all Aristocrats and Capitalists get two votes and Artisans, Officers, Clerks, Bureaucrats, and Clergymen get one vote, while the Craftsmen, Farmers, Laborers, and Soldiers are disenfranchised (Slaves would also be disenfranchised, but we don't have Slavery). We were under a Full Citizenship party in the election, so every member of the classes that can vote could vote regardless of ethnicity. Now, we're under a Limited Citizenship party, so the above classes still apply, but only Azeris and Turks can vote. If we were under Full Citizenship, that'd be about 10% of our Pops (who, remember, are only adult males of working age, so no children, elderly, or women, so the percentage is actually lower). With Aristocrats as 1.2% of the population, even at double voting they'd still be about a fifth of the electorate. We don't have demographic breakdown of our pops, but presumably a far smaller share of our people can vote now, and because our Aristocrats are overwhelmingly Azeri, they'd make a disproportionately large share of the new electorate with their double vote. Presumably a lot of Artisans of minority pops that could vote in the first election have been removed from the voting pool. Basically, we have an electorate now where Azeri-culture Aristocrats probably get to cast a full third or more of the votes, with Azeri- and Turkish-culture Artisans making up the majority of the rest of the electorate, with whatever few remaining Bureaucrats and Clergymen and Officers that happen to be Azeri/Turkish getting a small say in things. EDIT: While I have this big-rear end post here, I might as well point out that one of the big perils of Weighted Wealth or Wealth voting is that your biggest single voting bloc is going to be your Artisans, often literally an absolute majority of your electorate, and Artisans, the skilled laborers making poo poo that factories can do 10x cheaper who will inevitably lose competition with factories, tend to get kind of...crazy in V2. Unemployment and starvation can lead them to adopt radical political causes, usually Anarcho-Liberalism for some reason. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Sep 22, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 03:39
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:EDIT: While I have this big-rear end post here, I might as well point out that one of the big perils of Weighted Wealth or Wealth voting is that your biggest single voting bloc is going to be your Artisans, often literally an absolute majority of your electorate, and Artisans, the skilled laborers making poo poo that factories can do 10x cheaper who will inevitably lose competition with factories, tend to get kind of...crazy in V2. Unemployment and starvation can lead them to adopt radical political causes, usually Anarcho-Liberalism for some reason. The idea of a bunch of people deciding to become FYGM libertarians because they got out-competed in the market and are now poor and unemployed makes me laugh.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 05:42
|
|
|
Yeah if we want to remain a republic and hold the country together at the same time, we absolutely have to expand the franchise. The original US system was bad enough what with only male landowners being able to vote, but at least there were voters in every state and every town who could at least claim to represent the rest. Just imagine if they'd gotten together and decided to only grant the vote to people from New England or only people whose families had been in America for four generations. Then imagine that they'd gone on to say that the extra special real Americans (the rich) got to vote twice. Does anyone really think such a system would have survived even one generation? And yet, that is the version of "democracy" the Azeri elite has chosen to enshrine. We can only hope reform comes quickly, because if it doesn't this country will tear itself apart.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 05:50
|
|
|
Mister Bates posted:The idea of a bunch of people deciding to become FYGM libertarians because they got out-competed in the market and are now poor and unemployed makes me laugh. It doesn't dissuade many modern libertarians that ironically bemoan Wall Street or what have you, so c'est la vie?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 07:07
|
|
|
Mister Bates posted:The idea of a bunch of people deciding to become FYGM libertarians because they got out-competed in the market and are now poor and unemployed makes me laugh.  JAHAN (It's time for us to let Baku go bankrupt.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 08:02
|
|
|
DentedLamp posted:It doesn't dissuade many modern libertarians that ironically bemoan Wall Street or what have you, so c'est la vie?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 08:37
|
|
|
Mister Bates posted:The idea of a bunch of people deciding to become FYGM libertarians because they got out-competed in the market and are now poor and unemployed makes me laugh. Yeah, if anything Artisans should become Reactionary after that happens, just like many of them in real life were driven to Ludditism as a response to industrialization. I kind of wish the game had a Luddite Rebel variety that only showed up prior to 1850 that would take every factory in a province it occupied down one level. That'd be a rebel group everyone would start hating really quickly. But yes, starving unemployed Artisans becoming Bentham-and-Ricardo-waving Anarcho-Liberals is pretty hilarious. "Listen to this! Henry David Thoreau says 'The government that governs best governs least!'" "That must be why the furniture factory stole our chairmaking jobs!" Patter Song fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Sep 22, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 16:13
|
|
|
 Chapter 3: Italian Ambitions (1840-1845) The new conservative Kral government immediately begins to reform the budget, raising taxes and increasing spending on education, administration and the military.    The surplus generated from the higher taxes is invested into industrial development, funding the construction of several new factories.  Diplomatically, they adopt a policy of reapproachment with Italy, and the signing of an Anatolian-Bulgarian alliance within the greater Russian sphere.   Some of the reforms ushered in after Jahan Jahan's death are rolled back as industrial magnates complain of the 'excessive liberties' granted to trade unions.  The war between Italy and Germany ends in a white peace in late 1840. Poland, sensing weakness in Germany, declares war to reclaim Danzig but fail to gain the backing of their Russian masters, leaving Poland to face the German-Swedish alliance alone.   The war goes about as well as expected, and ends with Poland signing a humiliating peace offer where they nominally renounce their claims to Danzig and Pomerania.  In Italy a new ambitious young King, Alessandre III, has risen to the throne. His first act as ruler is to abolish the feudal anachronism that is the Papal States, annexing its territories and establishing an independent Papacy in the Vatican City. He then relocates the capital to Rome and orders the construction of a splendid new royal palace atop the Palatine Hill.  Alessandre next turns his attention to Italy's claim to the Dalamatian Coast as recognized by the Treaty of Pressburg. An Italian fleet is sent to Ragusa along with a delegation of diplomats to present a simple demand to the Ragusan Senate: Surrender or be invaded. The Ragusans, lacking a real army or allies among the Great Powers, choose the former alternative.  He also pursues reapproachment with Germany, putting past differences aside and signing an alliance.  Another war breaks out in late 1841, as the former British colony of Missouri attacks the former Norwegian colony of Vestland.  Back in Anatolia, the government begins cracking down on alcohol consumption with a combination of taxes, probihitions and support for Islamic religious groups preaching abstinence.  The Kral's economic policies begin to pay dividends in the form of industrial development and the expansion of culture and art in Anatolian's universities.    Despite the economic progress, nationalist resentment is simmering among the Armenian, Georgian and Ionian minorities, who find themselves increasingly excluded from the political process.    In 1843, the German-Italian alliance is put to the test as their respective allies Hungary and Serbia go to war yet again. Italy backs Serbia, but Germany refuses to aid the Hungarians.  Persia also goes to war, attacking Hedjaz and seizing a chunk of land in Arabia.   The war between Missouri and Vestland ends in total defeat for the latter, who are forced to cede a large stretch of territory.  In response to this loss and the need to protect themselves in the future, Vestland approaches Christiania with plans for unification. Cascadia is also invited into the union, and after several weeks of discussions an agreement is signed resulting in the creation of a new, pan-Borealian state stretching from the Atlantic to the Pacific.  As 1844 approaches its end, the 1845 elections are announced, and immediately the discontent of the electorate is displayed as a prominent professor at Tabriz university writes a tract criticizing the hereditary system used for appointment to the Upper House. Though the tract itself is viewed more as a symptom of a developing political system, it nonetheless reflects the deep divide in politics between the privileged voting groups and the disenfranchised masses.   In a political climate dominated by nationalistic and intellectual resentment, economic expansion and a rapidly changing society, what path forward will the Anatolian electorate choose?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 18:21
|
|
|
Isn't it simple, really? We've all seen what happens when the few rule over the many, like with Consul Jahan Jahan. We have to strive to do better. To ease the nationalist tendencies, and make the minorities realize that Anatolia is a nation for us all. Let the people vote!
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:01
|
|
|
Wiz posted:
And so is the way to regress and intolerance paved. We have succeeded in becoming a republic, may we salute the new, republican intolerance it brings with it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:06
|
|
|
Luhood posted:Isn't it simple, really? We've all seen what happens when the few rule over the many, like with Consul Jahan Jahan. We have to strive to do better. To ease the nationalist tendencies, and make the minorities realize that Anatolia is a nation for us all. Let the people vote! Even if we went full citizenship it doesn't fix our problems if we're still Weighted Wealth, and going Liberal again to get full citizenship back would destroy our fragile industrial sector with Lassiez Faire.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:11
|
|
|
Wiz posted:
 Shine on, you crazy frontiersmen diamonds. Hopefully that event/decision to buy Louisiana or whatever it's called in this timeline from the British will fire for Missouri soon, I want to see them survive until the end of Victoria 2.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:22
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:Even if we went full citizenship it doesn't fix our problems if we're still Weighted Wealth, and going Liberal again to get full citizenship back would destroy our fragile industrial sector with Lassiez Faire. So, revolution is the only solution!
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:24
|
|
|
Let's go Jeffersonian, lean toward limited citizenship and full citizenship ASAP.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:34
|
|
|
e X posted:So, revolution is the only solution! Eh...an early Jacobin Revolt would put us at Weighted Universal which is probably good enough to content the masses if coupled with Full Citizenship, but it'd wreck our prestige and knock us out of GP contention for quite some time. As it is, I could see us going GP pretty soon if one of the current ones falters (Bavaria). For the record, Weighted Universal is Rich pops get 3 votes, Middle pops get 2, and poor pops get 1. With full citizenship our population would be <1.5% Rich so their triple vote wouldn't distort much. Getting rid of Fptp to end all those landslide election returns on pluralities might be good at some point.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:36
|
|
|
What is the flag of Borealia? Also poor Ragusa, you gnostic little nation state. You were too good for this world. Isn't this the second time Serbia has been nabbing land from Hungary? What do their borders look like now?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 19:48
|
|
|
YF-23 posted:And so is the way to regress and intolerance paved. We have succeeded in becoming a republic, may we salute the new, republican intolerance it brings with it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 20:13
|
|
|
Wiz posted:Chapter 3: Italian Ambitions (1840-1845) Thus, Bavaria becomes the last bastion of feudalism on earth. Reign on, you mad emperor. I hope Missouri is never able to seize New Orleans and treats the territory like the Spanish do Gibraltar.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 20:25
|
|
|
I say Reform!
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 20:27
|
|
|
Well, Borealia looks imposing enough. Wonder if Mexico ends up getting a tad worried about its northern neighbor, or if the Yanks or Cherokee might find the development troubling. Meanwhile, well, those liberation movements are looking a tad large. No rebels yet but... ohhh just wait for it. Maybe reforms will pop up sooner rather than later.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 20:31
|
|
|
Pansies! Azerbaijan did not achieve greatness through surrendering and giving ground. We boldly stepped forward, looked the Armenians and Greeks right in the eye, and smothered them with a great big tolerant hug. However tolerance goes both ways. How can we be expected to tolerate their existence when they don't even tolerate our laws! As such, we have no choice but to beat the tolerance into them. Let no man question The Anatolian Republic's love and acceptance.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 20:53
|
|
|
You "reformers" are missing the forest for the trees. What good is "voting rights" when we still live with the humiliation of the Russian yoke? We are only electing our prison wardens. The only way for (Seriously though, we want to go reactionary if we want to industrialize soon. Laissez Faire + Russia's SOI means doom for our fledgling industry.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 21:04
|
|
|
So hey, who replaced Jahan Jahan? I'm still working on the new Rulers of Azerbaijan after I lost the old files and my OCD is going to go haywire if I can't write snippets about the republican leaders as well (or does this version of Vic II not have the ruler system you modded in the old version?) DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Sep 22, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 21:16
|
|
|
On the outset, we wanted to make Azerbaijan the beacon of tolerance. Shall a period of Russian tyranny erode our pure principles? Your answer better be an unequivocal No, gentlemen! Voting rights for everybody!
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 21:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 20:19 |
|
|
steinrokkan posted:On the outset, we wanted to make Azerbaijan the beacon of tolerance. Shall a period of Russian tyranny erode our pure principles? Your answer better be an unequivocal No, gentlemen! This man is a true Azeri! Tolerance and votes for all!
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2013 21:27
|
|
