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Patter Song posted:Given the V2 late game, Darkest Hour will portray the events of World War VI. That last war was hardly a world war. It was barely a Great War. If I knew anything about the Crimean War I might say it was like that.
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Jan 5, 2014 01:45
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e X posted:Eh, I don't really see our great war as a Great War. WWI seriously desolated the losing states, cut out huge tracks of land and led to the dismantling of two of them. Russia on the other hand barely even felt it. I haven't heard much about Bavaria, Hungary, and Bulgaria lately, but I think the war was pretty bad for them.
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Jan 5, 2014 01:46
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JT Jag posted:If we can really trust the Turks to be Azerbaijanis by another name, then this might be what a new Azerbaijan would look like in the event of an ethnic partitioning of the Anatolian Republic. If there is an Ethnic Dismantling, it will probably be at the hands of Fascists so i doubt we'd keep the Turkish part. e X posted:Eh, I don't really see our great war as a Great War. WWI seriously desolated the losing states, cut out huge tracks of land and led to the dismantling of two of them. Russia on the other hand barely even felt it. The Republic of Russia is an insane country. It's a Superpower in the era of Great Powers, and i doubt that the rest of the world could have successfully broken them any further. It was practically a draw game. I don't think this world has seen any wars that were more decisive than the Revolutionary Wars a century prior.
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Jan 5, 2014 01:49
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Mu Cow posted:I haven't heard much about Bavaria, Hungary, and Bulgaria lately, but I think the war was pretty bad for them. True, but Bulgaria and Hungary were not exactly world powers to begin with and Bavaria still exists. WWI destroyed the Austrian empire and directly let to the disbandment of the Ottoman empire. Not to mention what it did to Germany. The worst consequence of our "Great War" was that Bavaria stopped being a great power and even that is more comparable to the fate of OTL Spain. And even for Azerbaijan it can't be that bad, it was basically just a repetition of Revolutionary War to them. Russia comes in, slaughters the army, sieges the Caucasus and leaves.
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Jan 5, 2014 01:57
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It's interesting to see how the Balkan countries have been constantly screwed during Vicky 2. First Bosnia and Serbia, then Bulgaria and then Hungary have been shrunk considerably. Also, do the De Napoles monarchs still rule Italy?
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Jan 5, 2014 01:59
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crimea posted:It's interesting to see how the Balkan countries have been constantly screwed during Vicky 2. First Bosnia and Serbia, then Bulgaria and then Hungary have been shrunk considerably. Well, Italy is a fascist dictatorship now rather than a monarchy, though I guess the De Napoles might still be ceremonical heads of state with no actual power, as I think they weren't ever actually deposed (though the fascists might have gotten rid of them). With the military said to have worked with the fascists in their coup I imagine that the miltiary wields significant political power in the new fascist Italy. Maybe it is quite like Spain under Franco, with the miltary staging a rebellion against the government (in this case a succesful one that does not result in a civil war) and seizing power. Fascism might be a movement that blossomed and grew among the lower ranks of the Itaian officer class, particularly with officers returning from service in the colonies, where they were used to victory and glory and then seeing the disgraceful performance of the Italian armies and the cowardice of its political leadership in Europe compared to the decisive military actions carried out by the Italian colonial regiments and authorities against the Mughals and Zhen.
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Jan 5, 2014 02:26
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Randarkman posted:Well, Italy is a fascist dictatorship now rather than a monarchy, though I guess the De Napoles might still be ceremonical heads of state with no actual power, as I think they weren't ever actually deposed As indeed happened in OTL Italy, where Vittorio Emanuele III remained the king of Italy despite having Mussolini running the show. Given the communist revolution right next door, and what I imagine was the execution of the king (or perhaps the entire royal family, Soviet-style) of Burgundy, the king of Italy seems reasonably likely to actually back the fascists outright.
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Jan 5, 2014 02:45
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Tulip posted:The Republic of Russia is an insane country. It's a Superpower in the era of Great Powers, and i doubt that the rest of the world could have successfully broken them any further. It was practically a draw game. I don't think this world has seen any wars that were more decisive than the Revolutionary Wars a century prior. e; looking at the numbers again so is it more like 40%, but anyway, two of the other great powers can team up against Russia and be very likely to draw with them and that's close enough. Kainser fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 03:03
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Is Mexico still Fascist? How much help did you provide for the sake of narrative?
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Jan 5, 2014 09:34
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Patter Song posted:Given the V2 late game, Darkest Hour will portray the events of World War VI. I added long cooldowns on crisises to prevent that.
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Jan 5, 2014 09:43
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crimea posted:It's interesting to see how the Balkan countries have been constantly screwed during Vicky 2. First Bosnia and Serbia, then Bulgaria and then Hungary have been shrunk considerably. The de Napoles King fled into exile in Papaga and rules there while the Fascists put a figurehead cousin of his on the throne of Italy. i81icu812 posted:Is Mexico still Fascist? Mexico being Fascist was just some weird bug, Fascism wasn't even invented yet.
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Jan 5, 2014 09:46
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When you release the v2 mod, can you please include an end of the game save so people can look around?
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Jan 5, 2014 09:48
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The problem is that Russia is larger than most of the other great powers combined. The great powers will have to spend weeks crossing fifteen hundred miles of Europe , somehow defeat 500,000-1,000,000+ entrenched and fully mobilized Russians, then try to occupy thousands of miles of Russia. Plus Germany grabbed part of Burgundy, so it's not like the two armies that could maybe pull it off are going to be fighting on the same side.
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Jan 5, 2014 10:05
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Doesn't really matter how big Russia is, the European provinces have most, if not all population and industry.
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Jan 5, 2014 10:10
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Riso posted:Doesn't really matter how big Russia is, the European provinces have most, if not all population and industry. Russia being big is why they were able to survive Germany in WW2. It allowed them to pull their industry into Siberia and gave them time to figure out modern warfare. If Russia had just been it's European parts, they wouldn't have been able to win.
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Jan 5, 2014 10:32
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Are we going to have leaderchat for DH? Leaderchat is the new flagchat.
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Jan 5, 2014 10:33
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theblastizard posted:Russia being big is why they were able to survive Germany in WW2. It allowed them to pull their industry into Siberia and gave them time to figure out modern warfare. If Russia had just been it's European parts, they wouldn't have been able to win. That was only an option because of the totalitarian government. The Czar was not able to do the same.
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Jan 5, 2014 10:42
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Riso posted:That was only an option because of the totalitarian government. The Czar was not able to do the same.
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Jan 5, 2014 10:58
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Terrifying Effigies posted:- Cherokee's has been pretty quiet the last century, and neither they nor KoA have pursued any sort of Manifest Destiny. It would take Cherokee and KoA working together to take on Mexico, but the British, Portuguese and Dutch Caribbean might be tempting targets if they're caught up in a European war. I agree about Peru, and probably Mali, I guess they had their minorities assimilated, so they might revolt (I doubt it'd be successful though) or given independence after DH as a single state. The KoA has had the opportunity to wreck any of it's neighbors for some time now after it started seriously industrializing. For a while now they've probably been able to win in a fight against all neighbors. The raw difference is still increasing though Mexico is catching up in terms of momentum. Guangxi and Mughalistan are uncivs so they're fairly doomed, I suppose they might survive if they're heavily protected.
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Jan 5, 2014 11:02
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Anatolia is obligated to back Zhen in DH, isn't it? I mean, Muslim China. I still think leaving them hanging like we did was a blunder. They could have been a strong ally.
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Jan 5, 2014 11:07
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JT Jag posted:Anatolia is obligated to back Zhen in DH, isn't it? I mean, Muslim China. You must really want us to be occupied by Russia again.
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Jan 5, 2014 11:33
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Can Bavaria ever join Germany, or is it a sort of Austria in this timeline?
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Jan 5, 2014 11:39
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ThePutty posted:Can Bavaria ever join Germany, or is it a sort of Austria in this timeline? Like I said earlier there's an event that can happen if Bavaria (or any German-culture state) is in Germany's sphere where Germany gets to annex them (it's called something like Popular Unification) so it's definitely possible.
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Jan 5, 2014 11:52
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RabidWeasel posted:Like I said earlier there's an event that can happen if Bavaria (or any German-culture state) is in Germany's sphere where Germany gets to annex them (it's called something like Popular Unification) so it's definitely possible. Italy has been keeping Bavaria out of Germany's sphere by the looks of things.
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Jan 5, 2014 11:53
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There was a bit of chat about how a fascist power would control overseas colonies earlier, and somebody brought up the obvious (Portugal), but Portuguese colonies under the fascist Estado Novo is actually fairly interesting and could be a model for what Italian fascism in India and Africa could look like. Antonio de Oliviera Salazar, the Portuguese president for most of the period when Portugal was ruled by the fascists, was very enamoured with this idea of a multi-continental fully assimilated Portuguese state where both the metropole and the African territories were governed the same way. The theory was that not only were all residents of Portugal, be they in the metropole or in the colonies were supposedly legally equal and had the exact same rights. Salazar claimed that the Republic was 'colourblind', and asserted that any indigenous resident of the colonies could become President if they wanted to. They also didn't have a phobia of racial miscegenation that we see from the far-right in the rest of the world. In fact, it was quite the opposite. Portuguese fascism claimed as the end result a fully assimilated, interracial society formed through intermixing between the ethnic groups of the entire Portuguese state, from the metropole to the colonies. They did so to the point of offering a special subsidy to any male resident of the Portuguese mainland who moved to the African colonies and married an indigenous woman, on top of those offered to encourage Portuguese people to move to Africa. The reality, of course, was very different. Despite Salazar's claim that Africans were fully equal to white people in the colonies, they were absolutely not and Angola and Mozambique were still segregated according to racial lines. Angola and Mozambique were still brutally exploitative resource colonies and the tiny trickle of black Africans who gained Portuguese citizenship didn't change that. Indigenous residents of the colonies had illiteracy rates of 99%, and nobody ever really bothered to change that so the supposed opportunities offered by the Portuguese authorities didn't really exist. By the 1970s they realised that the rhetoric of equality wasn't really changing anything, and tried to start implementing proper education programs, but by that point it was too late and the colonies were already in revolution anyway. Anyway, where I'm going with this is that this is probably what the Italian colonies in this history under fascism would look like. Given how important the colonies have been to Italian success economically and possibly militarily, its a bit difficult to see the Italian fascist regime going "loving browns." and just trying to make them all slaves. More likely, Africa is still a brutally exploitative resource colony run by a handful of white Italians, though not very many because most of Italy's excess young men have probably gone to Papaga, and the white rulers in whatever the equivalent of Leopoldville is might be making pious noises about how equal the black settlers are and how anybody could become governor - petty no indigenous residents are literate though, so sad. India and the Sundanese islands are probably going to be very different. Neither of them are ever going to attract very many Italian settlers, because they're pretty full already and there aren't vast tracts of untamed land for resource exploitation or agricultural settlement. Plus, India is big, and you need more than a few administrators to run it properly or efficiently. There, you might see a pretty significant class of wealthy, educated (in India or in the metropole) Indians as a middle class of engineers, bureaucrats, and administrators - the people you need to keep a colony running and exporting back to the metropole. What happens to them if Italy pulls out is another question entirely. Of course, just like in historical Portugal, the TTL Italian rhetoric about full racial equality and integration is garbage. But the thing about rhetoric is that you can 100% believe it and still act in ways that ignore it completely, just as what happened in Portuguese Africa and still happens today. Sorry for the  but what I'm getting at is that fascism and nationalism is weird and as Portugal shows, in theory doesn't have to be on racial lines (in practice you can just let people's latent racism do that for you) and TTL's Italian fascism doesn't have to be either. Its just very nationalistic and based on the glories and successes of Italy as a nation-state and a polity rather than Italians as a racial group.
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Jan 5, 2014 12:46
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Brazil's Integralism movement, the closest thing to native Brazilian facism, was also weirdly non-racist - their slogan was "Union of all races and all peoples", and they made no effort to exclude Indian or mixed-race Brazilians from their ranks. (Thinking of Brazil - and, for that matter, Salazar and Franco - I've always sort of felt Facist states in Victoria should have a tendancy to become boring old Presidential Dictatorships over time, as the populist energy that created them fades away or is suppressed by the new rulers... then again, maybe that's a bit outside the timeframe of the game.)
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Jan 5, 2014 13:14
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JT Jag posted:The Czar hosed up because he chose to fight an offensive war, and he couldn't control his officer corps in foreign lands after his army failed to produce quick results. Remember, everyone expected the Great War to be over in a matter of weeks, months at most. If it was a defensive war, people would have rallied around him and the cause of defending their home. The Russians were victim of the war fever just like everyone else, and the war was going well in the beginning. Besides it was seen as a defensive war to defend the poor suppressed Slavic brothers under threat from the evil Austro-Hungarian empire. It does nothing to convince me that you can just move privately owned factories the same way as state owned ones, especially compared to a totalitarian system. The Russians will simply trade as much land as they have to for time and if that is not enough they will sign a peace.
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Jan 5, 2014 13:46
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Unlike our own history, this Russia got like more industry than like the rest of the big powers in Europe combined (and will probably use the superior free market industrial bonus come HoI). They'll be plenty scary, but won't hold Baku... which might be a problem on the oil front. By the way, how good is the infrastructure in game Russia? If they've gone hog wild on that front too HoI Russia will be a very different place to conduct offensives. Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 14:20
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Riso posted:That was only an option because of the totalitarian government. The Czar was not able to do the same. Was the Russian Empire's industry really that tied up in Poland and Lithuania?
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Jan 5, 2014 14:52
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Kavak posted:Was the Russian Empire's industry really that tied up in Poland and Lithuania? I don't know, and that's not what I meant. In democratic systems you can't just order private factories to pack up shop and move somewhere else in the country from one moment to another.
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Jan 5, 2014 15:08
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Pimpmust posted:Unlike our own history, this Russia got like more industry than like the rest of the big powers in Europe combined (and will probably use the superior free market industrial bonus come HoI). Well then, I wouldn't want to be whoever holds Baku because they're probably gonna get trade offers along the line of "all your oil for half a million Russian soldiers". ... Goddamnit, not again.
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Jan 5, 2014 15:17
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YeOldeButchere posted:Well then, I wouldn't want to be whoever holds Baku because they're probably gonna get trade offers along the line of "all your oil for half a million Russian soldiers". Unsure if it's correct but I think Baku stood for like 80% of the Soviet Union's oil production during ww2 and was probably the biggest source of Oil in Europe at the time. To give you a perspective: In 1898, the Russian oil industry exceeded the U.S. oil production level. At that time, approximately 8 million tons were being produced (160,000 barrels (25,000 m3) of oil per day). By 1901, Baku produced more than half of the world's oil (11 million tons or 212,000 barrels (33,700 m3) of oil per day), and 55 percent of all Russian oil. Approximately 1.2 million tons of Baku kerosene were also sold abroad. In 1928–29, oil production in the USSR equaled to 13.5 mln t including Azerbaijan's 8.7 mln t. By 1940, the total production of Azerbaijan — 23.5 mln. t (475,000 bbl/d (75,500 m3/d)) — was a historical record not broken until 2005. During that first year of the war, Azerbaijan produced 25.4 million tons of oil — a record.
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Jan 5, 2014 15:27
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Pimpmust posted:Unlike our own history, this Russia got like more industry than like the rest of the big powers in Europe combined (and will probably use the superior free market industrial bonus come HoI). Conversion of industrial score to IC in DH will not be linear. Russia will have the most industry though, for sure.
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Jan 5, 2014 15:29
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 Chapter 16: Red Wave (1910 - 1915) A diplomatic incident prompts Russia to invade the tiny Khanate of Khwarizm in 1910, easily defeating its army and annexing its territory.  The expansion of welfare in Anatolia continues despite resistance from the Conservative and Liberal movements, and by 1911 the Republic's social programs are second only to those in Germany.   Attempts to gain influence in Syria are continually thwarted by the Russian ambassador to Damascus, and in response to the Russian meddling the government signs a trade and friendship treaty with Circassia.   With backing from the Zhen, Korea attempts to wrest itself free of Japanese influence, expelling Japanese diplomats and nationalizing Japanese factories. The Japanese government responds to the provokation with a declaration of war, prompting a three-month campaign in which the Zhen-Korean armies are utterly crushed by Japanese arms. Rather than simply reasserting their influence, Japan opts to annex Korea outright.  Another war between Colombia and Peru ends in victory for the former, who retake the last of their core territories lost decades ago.  In Egypt, a Communist revolt is threatening to overthrow the government and Alexandria sends a missive to Tabriz with a plea for help. The Vicdan government responds by sending the Army of Armenia, which easily crushes the Egyptian Red Armies.   Other regimes are not so lucky. A wave of Communist revolts, funded and armed by Burgundy, is rocking Europe. First to fall is the Social Democratic regime of Poland, who are couped by radical members of the ruling party that reorganize the country into a Socialist Republic after Burgundian model.  Sweden is next, with Communist rebels supported by Norwegian volunteer regiments seizing Stockholm and forcing the King to flee to Finland, where he rallies loyalist elements and proclaims an independent Kingdom of Finland.   Spain, meanwhile, is experiencing a full-blown civil war, with the Catalan Communist Party and Castilian and Basque Separatists simultaneously fighting both the regime and each other. Burgundy is actively supporting the Communists, while Britain is funding both the regime and the Castilians, figuring that anything is better than another large Communist country in Europe.  In the end, the fighting breaks the country apart, with Catalonia under Communist control but Castile and Navarra declaring indepedence.   Spain's colonial empire, too, declares independence from Barcelona, with Australians forming an independent Republic and colonial administrators seizing power as dictators in Java, the Philippines and Bali.  Independent Castile, ruled by the Spanish King's reactionary young nephew, quickly aligns itself with London and the Monarchist bloc.   
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Jan 5, 2014 15:29
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Poland is so hosed  I wonder what could give our Australia more of a hispanic flavour, the name is spelled the same in Spanish, but maybe add some country title to it? La Mancomunidad de Australia? I'm afraid Zhen is hankering for a revolution of some sort. Muslim communism (ala Catholic Communism) or some flavour of Fascist? Or even breaking up even more? 
Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 15:35
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Is it possible for Zhen to go communist or fascist? If so, how likely?
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Jan 5, 2014 15:39
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Now that Circassia is in our sphere is there any way to peacefully annex them and get our Azeri pops back? Also the end of Espanya really sucks, I liked that country.
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Jan 5, 2014 15:39
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Those Spanish colonies going independent is good news for expansionist Japan, I'd expect.
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Jan 5, 2014 15:50
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Pimpmust posted:Poland is so hosed According to google translate, Meridional is the word for Southern in Catalan, so maybe Meridionia?
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Jan 5, 2014 15:52
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Man, why'd you let Red Egypt not be a thing? Sure, they'd be a threat to the Suez Canal, but Red Egypt.Jeoh posted:Are we going to have leaderchat for DH? Leaderchat is the new flagchat.
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