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Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Shroud posted:

Thanks - I knew my Arabic was bad, but I was going googly-eyed trying to figure that one out.

Well, I translated it straight through Google Translate, so I wouldn't feel too badly about it being effective gibberish.

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Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011



Ras Het posted:

Does CK distinguish between Sunni and Shia? If yes, which one are you, if not, which one will you pick in EU3?

e: oops, missed it. OK.

I think right now, Azerbaijan is Shia. I'm not sure if that's always been the case (for the ruling classes), though.

Edit, according to Wikipedia:

quote:

The local dynasty of Shirvanshahs became a vassal state of Timur's Empire and assisted him in his war with the ruler of the Golden Horde Tokhtamysh. Following Timur's death two independent and rival states emerged: Kara Koyunlu and Ak Koyunlu. The Shirvanshahs returned, maintaining a high degree of autonomy as local rulers and vassals from 861 until 1539. During their persecution by the Safavids, the last dynasty imposed Shia Islam upon the formerly Sunni population,[43][44][45] as it was battling against the Sunni Ottoman Empire.[46]

So presumably in Crusader Kings they should indeed be Sunni.

Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Aug 8, 2011

Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.

Phlegmish posted:

I think right now, Azerbaijan is Shia. I'm not sure if that's always been the case (for the ruling classes), though.

Edit, according to Wikipedia:


So presumably in Crusader Kings they should indeed be Sunni.

They're sunni in the 1187 start.

VVVVV Oh.

Frionnel fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Aug 8, 2011

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011



Frionnel posted:

They're sunni in the 1187 start.

Yes, by 'right now' I meant in real life, 2011. Should have specified.

ChrisAsmadi
Apr 19, 2007
:D
On the plus side, Byzantium seems to be going well. Perhaps we could join the Empire and then end up elected.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

ChrisAsmadi posted:

On the plus side, Byzantium seems to be going well. Perhaps we could join the Empire and then end up elected.

The Islamic Emperor of Orthodox Byzantium, with Semi-Salic Gavelkind?

What the hell, I've seen crazier.

Brutus Salad
Nov 8, 2009

Best buddies forever! :3:

ChrisAsmadi posted:

On the plus side, Byzantium seems to be going well. Perhaps we could join the Empire and then end up elected.

Byzantium doesn't have elective law in 1187 Scenario. :(

Rejected Fate
Aug 5, 2011

YF-23 posted:

Can someone give a quick rundown on the biggest differences of Sufism with mainstream Islam? I'm not sure why but I always thought of Sufis as Muslim hippies for some reason.

This page has only reinforced that thought.

Well... they can kind of be Muslim hippies. It's entirely possible, as someone posted earlier, for them to practise their faith using drugs, dance and music. It also has an association with mystical stuff, especially in India where there was a large focus on angels and miracles. Intoxication was also sometimes involved, something that's a definite no-no in the religion.

Basically they believe that in their life time they can get closer to Allah by getting closer to what they believe is the sort of nature he desires. Everything you do is meant to be an expression on just how much you love Allah, and you're meant to destroy your own ego. You can do this with practising devotional acts, which can be a lot of things. Some of the things mentioned before are putting yourself in a trance, singing, dancing, music, etc, all of these acts being devoted to Allah. Meditation is also a popular practise.

But it's kind of varied. Different scholars had different thoughts. Some advocated basically said that it was allright to indulge in what Allah had allowed and others said all religions were acceptable because they led to Allah. In contrast you can get some quite strict Sufi practises, with a lot more self-sacrifice.

So yeah, all in all it can be a pretty groovy branch of Islam. Let's hope our glorious Sultan is one of the groovy ones.

jsoh
Mar 24, 2007

O Muhammad, I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight

Brutus Salad posted:

Byzantium doesn't have elective law in 1187 Scenario. :(

Also a King cant become a vassal.

Shroud
May 11, 2009

Rejected Fate posted:

Good info

Yeah, I'm Muslim, and I barely understand what they're on sometimes. There no central Sufi organisation, but generally people follow/adopt a religious Sufi figure as there leader, and basically do whatever he tells them to. Some are completely down to earth, others will swear that there are alligators in Pakistan that house the souls of Sufi saints (literally true). In other words, anything goes as long as you can explain it well enough, while staying low on the radar.

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

Shroud posted:

In other words, anything goes as long as you can explain it well enough, while staying low on the radar.

This is the fundamental truth about human social systems and also the secret to becoming rich.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice
Even though there's no central Sufi authority, there are a number of established Sufi orders who have been around for quite a while, probably the most famous being the Naqshbandi Sufi, who are probably both the biggest and most aggressive proselytizers, and who claim a spiritual tradition back to Muhammad and Abu Bakr, but which probably really dates from 14th century Central Asia.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost


Chapter 4: Inheritor (1210 - 1220)

The new decade begins badly, as dysentry strikes in Vaspakuran, while Small Pox continues to ravage Azerbaijan.


Early one morning, as Chancellor Kasim pays a visit to his half-brother's quarters, he finds a small circle of eunuchs clustered around the Sultan's bedroom door. Some of them are arguing, others are weeping or praying to Allah. Fearing the worst, Kasim pushes his way past the eunuchs and enters the suite. He finds Sultan Murad dead in bed, an empty bottle of poison at his nightstand. A simple scribbled note has been left by the bottle:

Allah is great, but I am not worthy of his trust


Reacting quickly, Kasim orders the eunuchs to summon the palace guard, charging into the harem and securing the person of Ertan, the infant heir to the throne. Ertan is quickly coronated and Kasim is appointed regent until the one-year old comes of age.



Emissaries are sent to inform Azerbaijan's allies of what has occured, and the military alliance with the Abbasids is renewed, proving some measure of security for the beleagured Sultanate.


No more than one week after the coronation, an attempt is made on the young Sultan's life as an assassin sneaks into the palace, getting as far as Ertan's bedchamber. Luckily, as he gets ready to strangle Ertan where he sleeps, he stumbles over the sultan's favorite toy, a wooden tiger. Alerted by the noise, guards rush into the chamber and kill the assassin before he can do any harm.


Ertan's half-uncle Danismend is suspected of being behind the plot, but as there is no proof Kasim chooses to simply send him away from court by granting him the lands of Albania to govern.


Sensing weakness, the Bey of Shemakha rises in revolt against Azerbaijan, but he fails to get any of Ertan's other vassals to join with him and the revolt is swiftly crushed.




In 1215, Georgia invades and annexes Erzerum. Furthermore, the Prince of Alania swears fealty to the Queen of Georgia a few mere weeks later, creating a powerful christian empire in the Caucasus.


Knowing that Azerbaijan needs a sharp blade against such powerful enemies of the faith, Kasim decides that the young Sultan shall have a martial education.


Sunni Islam seems to be failing everywhere in the Middle East. The last remaining Muslim Great Power, Khwarizm, is governed by Shiites. Wedged in between Khwarizm and Georgia, Kasim makes a radical decision to gain the goodwill of the Shah - he proclaims that the Ildeguzid dynasty has adopted Shiite Islam and that Ali was the true heir of the prophet.


The reactions are immediate. The Emir of Tabriz declares war, gathers his army and prepars to march on Azerbaijan. Kasim responds by gathering his own armies and attacking Tabriz, defeating the Emir and annexing all his lands.




Albania, too, rises in revolt and knowing that the remaining Beys are intending to do the same, Kasim beats them to the punch by declaring war on them first.



The Beys are taken by complete surprise by Kasim's aggressive tactics, and despite brave attempts to resist the Sultan's armies, by the end of 1217 all of the Beys have been broken and their lands seized.



Disaster strikes in 1218 as the holy city of Medina falls to the crusaders of Antioch. Only Mecca still holds out against the Christians, and the defilement of Medina by christians is enough to arouse calls for a Jihad across all of Islam, with the exception of Khwarizm, whose young Shah is a known sceptic and professes little interest in the holy war against the crusaders.


Then, it seems Allah himself decides to intervene. The Shah falls ill and dies but a few months after the fall of Medina. He has four daughters, but no son, and his closest heir is thus his nephew - Ertan.


Nine-year old Ertan is suddenly the ruler of a vast empire, ruler of both the east and west shores of the Caspian, as well as the wealthy lands of Persia.


The sheer amount of land now belonging to the crown is unmanageable, and Kasim begins handing out titles to loyal subjects, and organize the new empire into Emirates.


Sensing that Ertan is growing up, and that his own time as Regent is coming to a close, Kasim secures his own future, appointing himself Emir of Khwarizia on the far eastern border of the empire, though he remains for a while yet at court.


Perhaps Kasm has reason to worry about his future because the young Sultan, having grown up with intrigue, assassination attempts, rebellions and war, seems to have become the very opposite of his mild-mannered father. Already beginning to exert his powers, he is an energetic, cruel and vengeful boy, who likes nothing more than to have clumsy or disobedient servants flogged, and who is infamous for having ordered a former rival of his mother to be strangled to death in front of the other women of the harem.

Sultan Ertan makes no secret of what he intends to do when he comes of age and takes the throne. He intends to lead the armies of Azerbaijan and Khwarizm west, to destroy the Kingdom of Jerusalem, to expel the christians from the holy land, and then to pursue them into their own lands and wipe the scourge of christianity from the very face of the earth itself.

Sultan Ertan dreams of blood and war.




Wiz fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Oct 7, 2011

Daeren
Aug 18, 2009

YER MUSTACHE IS CROOKED

Rejected Fate posted:

So yeah, all in all it can be a pretty groovy branch of Islam. Let's hope our glorious Sultan is one of the groovy ones.

Sufism is indeed pretty rad, aside from the sects that go a little :shepface: due to inter-religious/cultural tensions, which usually manifest themselves in Sufi shrines getting blown the gently caress up by more hardline groups like the Wahhabi or contemporary Salafi that view what they do as idolatry or just plain blasphemous. The Wahhabi are also known as those charming fellows that destroyed a ton of the ancient sites important to Islam like the graves of a ton of early religious figures, several ancient mosques, many places mentioned in the Qur'an, and the homes of most of the early movers and shakers in Islam - including those of Muhammad and his wife.

Fake Edit: Holy poo poo we're already hitting some :psyduck: differences in history here. This oughtta be good.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Oh, yeah. It's on.

sum
Nov 15, 2010

Daeren posted:

Fake Edit: Holy poo poo we're already hitting some :psyduck: differences in history here. This oughtta be good.

This isn't anything, in my current CK game Leon somehow managed to end up in control of all of Italy and Ireland (which is a pain in the dick considering I'm the duke of Galloway), and the Byzantine emperor somehow managed to convince the Russian duchies to be his vassals, despite having 0 skill in diplomacy.

Gorgo Primus
Mar 29, 2009

We shall forge the most progressive republic ever known to man!
It is good to see the Sultan has seen the light of the Shia, for Allah has rewarded him for his wisdom.

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART
Two updates ago merely surviving was an issue, now we're the Persian Empire.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

1) If Ertan had been successfully assassinated, who would have inherited?

2) If the heir belonged to a different dynasty (meaning a game over screen), would you have gone with it and said "well, sorry guys, turns out this was actually a 4-update megaLP"?

Morrow
Oct 31, 2010
And in another two updates we'll be a tiny backwater along the Caspian again.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Pakled posted:

Two updates ago merely surviving was an issue, now we're the Persian Empire.

Welcome to Crusader Kings.

Also, marriage politics are awesome.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

NihilCredo posted:

1) If Ertan had been successfully assassinated, who would have inherited?

2) If the heir belonged to a different dynasty (meaning a game over screen), would you have gone with it and said "well, sorry guys, turns out this was actually a 4-update megaLP"?

1) His cousin, who is in a different dynasty.

2) No, this is an Azerbaijan LP, not an Ildeguzid LP. If a different dynasty takes over I switch to them.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

drat. So much for being a small empire struggling to survive!

Allah certainly approves of your religious choice

Rejected Fate
Aug 5, 2011

It is rumoured that our poor beloved Sultan claimed himself not worthy of Allah's gift of life due to his partaking of moneylending. Let this be a lesson to us all.

Also, holy moley is that a quick change of fates. Just as I was worried that we'd be under some difficult times protecting the small amount of land we had... and we get all of that! Are we now the most plentiful Islamic power? And I am sure our power will only grow with such an... ambitious Sultan.

We've got our eye on you, Georgia.

Rejected Fate fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Aug 10, 2011

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011
What was that about those crusading fellows taking all our holy cities ?


:hist101:

Noreaus
May 22, 2008

HEY, WHAT'S HAPPENING? :)
Murad, you were too gentle for this world :smith:

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


:sbahj:

Yeah, this is why Crusader Kings is one of the best games ever.

Patter Song
Mar 26, 2010

Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.
Fun Shoe
Our calendar starts with the day our Prophet left his hometown for the prosperous oasis of Medina. Let us start a new calendar from the day we spilled the Crusaders' blood and reclaimed this second-holiest of cities.

KnoxZone
Jan 27, 2007

If I die before I Wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.
Not only has our empire grown vastly, but we also now possess safe and secure borders to the East. This means we can focus all of our efforts to the north and west. There is surely nobody to oppose us in the east! :v:

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT

#bastionboogerbrigade
This being Crusader Kings, it will be fun to see how long it will last. :allears:

Wiz posted:

he proclaims that the Ildeguzid dynasty has adopted Shiite Islam, and that Shi'a will from now on be the true belief of Azerbaijan.
Which Shi'a? Twelver? Sevener? Ismaili? How can there be a true belief when we don't know who were the rightful Imams? :byodood:

skipThings
May 21, 2007

Tell me more about this
"Wireless fun-adaptor" you were speaking of.
This is so glorious, I literally laughed out when I saw that screenshot of your new blob. The game even fucks with you if you try to make it harder on yourself.

"no! You're going to play a blob, and you'll like it!"

I still have deep trust that this will be very intriguing and exciting, go on Wiz !

skipThings fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Aug 10, 2011

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021


Patter Song posted:

Our calendar starts with the day our Prophet left his hometown for the prosperous oasis of Medina. Let us start a new calendar from the day we spilled the Crusaders' blood and reclaimed this second-holiest of cities.

Also, look at what the cartographers bring us, the Christian powers of al-Andalus have been broken, truly Allah has seem fit to bring justice to this world.

Xerophyte
Mar 17, 2008

This space intentionally left blank

Rejected Fate posted:

Also, holy moley is that a quick change of fates. Just as I was worried that we'd be under some difficult times protecting the small amount of land we had... and we get all of that! Are we now the most plentiful Islamic power? And I am sure our power will only grow with such an... ambitious Sultan.

Pff, this is Crusader Kings. Our boy-Sultan will die in some ignoble fashion just after coming of age: severe case of dysentry-pox, gained a rivalry with some courtier who wants to be the sultan instead of the sultan and lucks out on the assassination, etc. Then the Mongols and Jerusalem decide to split us evenly in an unforseen Chormaqan-Baldwin Pact, leaving us with a two province minor vassalized to Georgia in 1246.

Lustful Man Hugs
Jul 18, 2010

So is CK always this erratic, or is that just what I've seen from every single LP of it so far? The game seems like Snakes and Ladders with a political theme.

Daeren
Aug 18, 2009

YER MUSTACHE IS CROOKED

ChaosSamusX posted:

So is CK always this erratic, or is that just what I've seen from every single LP of it so far? The game seems like Snakes and Ladders with a political theme.

Here I thought I was just terrible at the games when I tried playing the demo of EUIII. Judging by these Paradox threads, it's just that much of a clusterfuck.

I may have actually been terrible, though.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


Morrow posted:

And in another two updates we'll be a tiny backwater along the Caspian again.
Yeah, this is making for a really interesting narrative. With our inheritance laws this sudden windfall won't end with world domination, but it will let us do awesome influential to affect the world... like kick the Kingdom's rear end and save Islam. And then in two updates we'll be a tiny backwater who, a generation ago, saved the world.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

ChaosSamusX posted:

So is CK always this erratic, or is that just what I've seen from every single LP of it so far? The game seems like Snakes and Ladders with a political theme.

Welcome to the feudal system / medieval Europe.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Daeren posted:

I may have actually been terrible, though.

I don't doubt that Wiz set this all up to inherit on purpose. The fiend. But still, that was ace. I went :aaa: when I saw that map.

Rejected Fate
Aug 5, 2011

So under Semisalic Gavelkind when our boy-Sultan dies and if he has multiple male heirs, the Sultanate will be split under the titles, right? So we've the king title for Azerbaijan and Khwarizm, so Khwarizm under this situation would become it's own nation again. Does Azerbaijan still make any land gains at the end of this situation?

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Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Rarity posted:

I don't doubt that Wiz set this all up to inherit on purpose. The fiend. But still, that was ace. I went :aaa: when I saw that map.

I did marry the daughter of the Shah in the hopes of inheriting, but I had nothing to do with the Shah only having daughters and dying an early death.

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