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Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
^^^
Did you confirm that yourself because that doesn't seem to be the case.

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

God. loving. DAMNIT.

I thought poo poo was supposed to be backwards compatible now? What are the odds this will still be "needs a new world" in 1.2?

Really sick of constantly resetting our multiplayer server.

No, Jeb stated that old worlds will generate using their old code to prevent errors in the terrain, old worlds will not include jungle biome code in their generations, only new ones.

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Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
^^^
Well, the good thing is that unless the source code has a new owner, you wont have to worry about MCmmo anymore as the developer stopped working on it and minecraft mods in general. He said he would give the source to someone else, but I am unsure if that has happened yet.

Whalley posted:

There was an image posted ages ago that implied Jeb was working on beavers; there was a generated dam in a river and a bunch of trees nearby that had sections of their trunk replaced with what looked like fenceposts. I'm still waiting on my beavers :(

I wish there was a lot of biome-specific creatures. Sandworms in deserts, monkeys in jungles, beavers in rivers, giant bugs in swamps, all sorts of things. And I wish that mobs would interact beyond "wolves hunt sheep" and "sometimes if you're lucky an archer will hit a creeper"

Don't know about the dam, never saw that picture, but the fences inside tree trunks was a bug that they accidentally made while fixing other bugs. Notch and Jeb thought it was funny and posted to the net, over zealous fans began speculation of beavers.

I agree that having at least one biome specific animal would be really neat though: alligators for swamps, monkeys for jungles, scorpions for deserts, polar bears for snow biomes and penguins for the supposed upcoming glacier sub-biome. We have wolves for the forest biomes and pigs and sheep for the plains biome, but horses would be amazing and give the saddle a use. Birds would be nice, have that work on number of trees in a chunk with skins dependent on the biome, fish for rivers and coastlines (more sub-biome checks) with sharks in deeper ocean waters.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jan 19, 2012

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Locus posted:

A year or two ago I would have been mad about that Minia thing, but now I'm just excited. Someone needs to make a Minecraft clone and do it right. I don't know if it'll be Eloraam, but she seems to have some talent, so I'm eager to see more.

I'm excited as hell about Eloraam making a minecraft clone, she knows her poo poo, Jeb is smitten with her and apparently she was offered a job position with Mojang, but sensibly declined (though having her talent and common sense would have helped so much).

I'm also excited about Blockade Runner, game shows a lot of promise for what could be described as a combination of Gmod's SpaceBuild and Minecraft. The developers have only worked on it for something like 30 weeks and they have made great progress so far. Their team has what Notch seems to lack, structured goals and planning.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
So apparently mob/AI guy Jon is adding a new mob to tomorrow's snapshot, wonder if it will be Jungle related already, would seem pretty fast to have something up and running for a brand new biome.

He also says that he is fixing it so animals stop trying to jump over fences/fence gates, that is great.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

poemdexter posted:

:siren: incoming wall of spergin dev text :siren:

So let's define API first since it's being thrown around a lot. Minecraft was written with java using the lwjgl (lightweight java game library). What that library does is offer an API between java and OpenGL (open source graphics library). This API is just a bunch of methods or functions that let you write java and use OpenGL since OpenGL isn't natively java.

At first, we were told we will be getting an API. So we'd have some methods we could call that would let us, for example, change how high you jump. Then we were told that the "API" would instead be the complete open source code that a developer would be able to have for a fee. This would allow us, for example, to change the jump height directly in the code, repackage it up, and distribute it. Now, according to Jeb, we're going back to the first idea of an API with some contractors.

The difference between an API and complete access to the code is pretty straight forward. Let's say lordfrikk wants to mod minecraft with his great idea. lordfrikk wants a new mob called a frikker that looks like a frog and hops around and makes a ribbit noise.

With an API, lordfrikk uses some methods that creates some object called Frikker. Then he does something like Frikker.addMovement(MoveStyle.Jump). Then he does Frikker.addNoise("ribbit.wav"). Then he does Frikker.addModel(modelPoints[]). lordfrikk packs up his code and distributes it by maybe slapping in into some MODS folder that Jeb sets up for minecraft. poemdexter downloads the zip, slaps it in the folder, and poof there's little frikkers jumping in my game, yay!

With the complete source code, lordfrikk looks at how a Pig is created in minecraft, basically copies the code with slight modifications, takes note of all the classes modified, recompiles it, then distributes it with a README.txt that says "please replace f.class, g.class, butt.class in your minecraft jar". It's a small pain for those who aren't technical.

So it looks like an API wins right? Well, what if you wanted your frog to also do something way unique like have some internal counter and after 10 hops it would spawn an NPC that would give you an item. Well, what if the API doesn't offer this? You're boned. The complete source code would let you have this although it would take you a little longer to develop. Go look at all the neat mods from the modding thread and I guarantee most of them aren't Bukkit (API lite).

tl;dr - complete source code = more interesting mods. API = easier to write mods, more control over mods from Jeb.


Those are great points, though while SSP mods do not use the Bukkit API, the majority of SMP mods, however, do. For SSP, the Forge API (which is maintained by Eloraam of RedPower fame) has been gaining a lot of traction as of late (a lot of major mods are jumping on, though a few have abandoned it because of ~MOD DRAMA~). I understand the pros and cons of both systems, but I personally feel that the API that is currently planned will be best for the modding community (and it is not like the modding community wont stop cracking through the obfuscation).

The big reason why Jeb is working with "contractors" is because he isn't sure what the modding community actually really wants/needs from an API, one of the contractors is Eloraam since she has been building her API with the SSP community in mind and has been trying to add broader functionality outside of simple function calls (this has also probably been a big goal for her Forge API since her own mod needs a lot more than what a "simple" API would give). You add in the Bukkit developers help for the SMP crowd as well as the team that cracks Minecraft's obfuscation so that modding can happen at all and I think there is a good chance that the API might surprise us.

If not.. well, Forge will probably replace it in utility. :v:
If only Eloraam took that job position with Mojang, but I can see that causing issues with the MC clone she is developing.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

babies havin rabies posted:

DF is free and makes Toady about $50,000 a year. Toady doesn't crowd-source critical material, the whole game is his doing.

Minecraft costs $30 and makes Mojang hundreds of thousands of dollars a day.

DF takes a few hours to figure out, tops, and you don't have to use an external wiki. By the way, DF has an API :v:

That and Toady and Notch really are not similar. What Toady makes in donations on his game is WAY under what his level of education would provide had he gone and just gotten a normal job. Dude works on his game for hours on end every drat day and does it not to make money, but because it is his passion.

Notch on the other hand has a horrible work ethic, has proven that he will make bullshit excuses to hike the price up for a game that isn't finished despite marketing that it is. Notch also has no real passion for what he does, he bounces from idea to idea until he gets bored and then goes for the next shiny, there is no love for his product, there is no dedication.

As for DF grinding even modern PCs into dust, it really isn't that the code is bloated, it is more of the fact that despite looking very simple, DF is an INCREDIBLY detailed game that runs more simulations than any other game out there. Sure some of the simulations may not be needed, but part of the charm of DF is that all this high output of data allows the game to tell stories that the ASCII cannot. The majority of the DF LPs are not just the author coming up with stories to go along with their game, the game is weaving the tale for them and that is something that MC will never be able to do.

As for complaints on optimization and the fact that Toady every once and a while completely rewrites huge section of his code, well the game is still in Alpha, he has a ton of planned content for the game and so it is hard to judge if a section of code which is functional in duty now will be able to handle poo poo down the road (years from now) and hes put something like a 30 year estimate on when the game would even be finished. The UI hasn't been touched because he cares more about fleshing out the game more to the standards he has set himself and has been planned for an overhaul when it is time to go back and optimize the code. Despite all that DF is a way better game than MC. :v:

Enzer fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jan 28, 2012

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

MikeJF posted:

Oh hell yes.

Although part of that degradation is probably because of that early fertility. One man passion project bad code does not lend itself well to adaption into group-work structured development.

That said, quite frankly with these resources and time Notch could have had Minecraft recoded from the ground up properly by now if he got a sense proper business perspective.

Well, seeing as Jeb "recoded" the game already in another language and that he is more or less picking things apart as he goes along (last I heard he realized with a bit of rewriting, the biome code could do a lot of neat things like make sub-biomes that only appear if certain biomes intersect), I don't see why recoding would be such an issue. Hell, with biome code being more or less overhauled and the AI code being redone as well, may as well do the rest, right?

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
You know, outside people whining that its easy to circumvent zombies beating down doors in hard/hardcore modes, I really think this is a neat feature. I would also like to see them break through glass planes (not blocks though) as well. Hell, this addition is more or less what a zombie apocalypse mode would be like. Get yourself a tiny island, make a fort, try to keep the zombies from busting down your door.

And with zombies now chasing the NPCs into their homes, I really want a texture option for the NPCs to look like gang members/drug pushers and the zombies to look like cops. :v:

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Allen Wren posted:

The problem is, at least in my mind, that this is another part of the game that punishes not building windowless cobblestone and obsidian bunkers, when the game should allow (in survival) building whatever kind of house you like, once you've dug the materials to make it. I like having large windows to let light into my houses or towers or what-have-you, and it bugs me that most times, I have to put up a giant castle wall all the way around my house in order to just survive.

Kind of old posting, but there simple ways of protecting yourself and still making it look nice. A fenced in yard, light posts for a trail leading to your house, decorative lighting on the outside of your house creating just the basic amount of light needed to prevent mobs from spawning up against your walls/making it a good place for mobs to run for cover when the sun rises. I find the challenge of lighting up my structures without making it look tacky half the fun in construction.

Also, Jon did a very good job with how Zombies actually break down doors, they have to see you behind it. They do not just target the nearest door and go beating on it. So if you haven't lead the zombie to your house or you are not pressing up against the door looking outside, you are fine. That and you can shoot arrows through the peep holes in doors. My idea for them being able to break window panes (which, to me, would seem to be a lot weaker than a meter thick block of glass) would be a neat next step. Make it take twice as long as to break doors or make them just none breakable but have a behavior where if a zombie detects you behind glass, it beats on the glass for, say 5-10 seconds, then starts patrolling for a new way in because it is now aware that you are inside. New behaviors like this will bring a lot more life to minecraft and sure as hell beats the stereotypical behavior of enemies pushing into solid blocks and slipping from side to side. :)

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Jamesman posted:

Due to not knowing about the height limitations, combined with the looming threat of 1.2, I'm never going to finish what was SUPPOSED to be a massive Egyptian statue of Horus made with sandstone.

So instead here is my tribute to legs, I guess. :/



Go get yourself MCedit and just copy that sucker over into your 1.2 world when it hits. :)

You can also then paste it onto a lower level of ground so that you can be sure that it all fits even with the height limit increase. Maybe at the bottom of an artificial sand dune that goes below normal sea level?

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

poemdexter posted:

Well look what we have here! It's python + pygame + py2exe! I wonder if I can break this down to source code and then sell it for 9.8k. :ninja:

Doooo iiiiit.

I can understand how he is reasoning this to himself if he REALLY did put 30ish hours a week into this (though I seem to highly doubt that), but then he flat out admits that his coding is sub-average and that the source, in his words, is a mess and is bloated. If you admit that your code is bloated, poorly done and is a mess that apparently only just functions, then really I would not consider this as code that should be sold. If he really wants 10,000$ for this he really should clean up the sourcecode and document the poo poo out of it.

Hopefully someone will come along and do what Chickenbones did making a much much better TMIs.

VVV
And that is a very good point. Modding is a hobby and should be treating as much. No one was forcing him to spend 30-40 hours a week making a tool for minecraft for a year, he could have been spending that time trying to find a job (and don't give me poo poo on it being hard to find work, I was recently unemployed and am holding 3 part time jobs to make ends meet). Holding a mod at what is more or less ransom, especially one that is used as much as MCedit is is just screaming for someone to make a knock off. Honestly he really should just find a trustworthy coder and have a donation link that gets split 50/50.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Feb 10, 2012

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Jamesman posted:

It on a multiplayer server, so it's up to the person that runs it to do the moving over if and when we go to 1.2. That also means mods to increase the building height aren't an option now.

But I'm just kinda bored of it. Trying to make it look right and repeatedly failing to do so. Digging up an entire desert in order to get the materials. It's all just kinda burned me out and I'm eager to start over with some new ideas.

Replace bits of the knees with iron blocks to give it a more mechanical look, decorate with lit red stone and build a "control" room at the top/in the crotch and add tnt cannons. Have yourself some giant bitchin Egyptian power legs.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
^^^
Sounds like most prime time television to me. :v:
Which is pretty much just that. Youtube sees that you have a ton of viewers, Youtube is making a ton of money off of adds from your viewers, Youtube is nice enough to cut you a check for part of that as an incentive to continue to keep your viewers so that Youtube makes more money. Not sure I really see an issue with that.

Bicehunter posted:

There is a big difference tho? Notch putting it into the vanilla game and they don't get anything while Notch gets even more money because the game just got better?

The old hl + cs thing was just that.. the guys who made the mod got hired/team up with Valve: On April 12, 2000, Valve announced that the Counter-Strike developers and Valve had teamed up.

They probably got a sweet deal because HL just got much more popular not only as a good singleplayer game but as a platform for CS.

What the hell are you talking about? I'm trying to think of mods that were shoved into vanilla without compensation. The only mod that I know that was ever put into vanilla was the Pistons Mod and the developers were compensated by Mojang for their idea. Pretty much no other has been placed into the game and with as rabid as Minecraft's Modding fan base is, if Notch did steal people's code there would be a complete poo poo fit. There have been more mods that have NOT made it into vanilla simply because Mojang felt the developers were asking too much/Notch is stingy with money.

The other thing you have to remember is that most mod developers would have a hard time claiming actual ownership of their mods since the majority of them technically break MC's EULA, being derivatives of Minecraft's code as well as distributing code that they do not own.


Anyway, moving back on topic and away from mod talk, the idea of zombie sieges in game makes me really excited. I am still hoping for a way for NPC villages to protect themselves though. Nothing would suck more if NPCs, god forbid, actually became useful and after a few days worth of mining underground in the same chunk as a village you come back up to find the place a ghost town.

So with all this new mob AI behavior, what exactly do you think needs to be changed to make combat better? Better player movement and better feedback with hitting things in melee so it feels like you are actually dealing blows to something? Maybe different swings depending on how you are moving like in Morrowind? More variety of attack choices (different weapons or magic)? Combat needs an overhaul, but I am having difficulties trying to decide what would make it better.

I do like how the combat in Cube World looks, even if it is a little hack and slash, because the hits a player/enemy deals seem to have weight behind them and there is a lot more movement in actions, which is something minecraft is bad at. The world is very static, lacks animation.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008


Yesssss, I hope this isn't just Jeb goofing around and that this is indicating we are getting giant spider mobs. Heck, that might be a cool "boss" monster that has a chance of spawning in deep caves. I remember forever ago when Jeb was working on strongholds that he wanted to do boss/miniboss style mobs.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Bicehunter posted:


Anyways, video with early "game play" ie, you move around as a player that cannot fly ;P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isJ2v6whY6Y

Oh man moon gravity. Like the general idea you are going for Bicehunter, but I noticed something, you made a two block tall tunnel, tried to enter it, were stopped and had to make it 3 tall. Not that this is a nit pick or what have you, just curious if the player model is 3 blocks in height.

Edit: should have waited for the rest of the video where you build a shack, though it still looks like the head clips through the bottom half of the top block in the doorway.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Feb 11, 2012

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
Cool, I thought it might have something to do with floaty movement.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Dbhjed posted:

Wait there are TWO goons working on minecraft inspired sandbox games???

DuFfY - Looks like minecraft but angles and flowing water (http://sunnyjum.tumblr.com/)

Bicehunter - block but the world is a sphere (http://kosmospace.net/)

Correct me if I am wrong.

Also why isn't there another thread for these two, I know a bunch of people that don't go to the Minecraft thread. Also even though it is exciting, it isn't Minecraft.

Because there isn't much there yet to start a thread on? They've both said they would start threads when there was more/an alpha download was available. :v:

That and it is minecraft related since they are both based on minecraft general idea, and there isn't much to actually talk about. Would rather have exciting talk about minecraft clones than having the thread dump down into Notch hate, minecraft community drama or modding community drama. Plus, where else better to get feedback on a minecraft like game than from the minecraft general thread?

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Lets all demonize Notch for using Java then circlejerk around Bicehunter some more... who's using Java.

Java probably seemed fine at the time because it was the language Notch was most proficient in and he probably didn't expect the project to become a massive undertaking. The problem with minecraft isn't really Java.

What? I think you are getting two different conversations confused? If anything people really are not bitching that Notch coded in Java, but rather that Notch kinda writes poo poo code regardless of language. I mean he admits to being self taught and there is nothing wrong with that, however he has also admitted that major corporations have basically said that his code is very obviously self taught to the point where it would be hard to work with others (meaning that other major game developers are basically saying that his code is such a mess because that is the only way he knows how to do things and it would slow down group projects as others try to figure out what the gently caress he is doing). The big issue with that is that it seems that Notch doesn't know what I guess would be standard ways of approaching a problem and what you end up with is bloat that causes issues later down the line as you build upon that, I mean Jon their AI guy has completely gutted all of Notch's AI code because it is completely unusable and cannot be built upon reasonably. Though honestly, with how much code is being gutted or redone by Jon and Jeb, Notch can take a bit of ribbing, his ego is a little to big and maybe this will get him to sit down and maybe sharpen up on his knowledge of code before diving into the next project. Guy has ideas, but he needs to work on how is assembles a project and he really needs to work on goal setting skills. :P

And I really do not think people are "circle jerking" either, I like Bicehunter's project because it is interesting to see someone go at a Minecraft like engine and I am rather surprised at what he has been able to pull off in two weeks. Yeah he is using Java, but he is showing a lot more competence so far. I also like the idea of a minecraft game set in space because one of my favorite games was the Spacebuild gamemode for Gmod and I am already excited for such games like Blockade Runner.

DufFy's project is also holding my attention because if it turns out well, it will allow for a lot more complexity and control of building than Minecraft does and the list of goals he has set in one of his videos are pretty decent as well.

These are two Minecraft related games that have a ton of potential behind them and as things are slow otherwise for Minecraft of course you are going to see a lot of people talk about them and honestly they are exciting.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Elysiume posted:

Except lamps being off means poo poo can spawn there, right?

True, but someone a few tweets before the lamp thing was asking Jeb for a light sensing block and he asked if it would sense any light or just sunlight. I assume a lamp could be redstone powered, so light sensor + lamp = lamp posts that turn on at night. Course that is assuming the light sensor block makes it in, but it is a good sign is Jeb is asking how they wanted it to work.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
Ha, love the bug complaint someone sent Jeb about a stack of redstone inverters from bedrock to the new world height ground their FPS to a halt, what did you expect would happen with some odd 250 redstone torches alternating states.

Also, where are people coming up with Jeb removing the air block, I must have missed that, all I see is references to increasing block ID number and adding an additional blocks of air to the game to increase world height. Nothing about removing air blocks and mucking with redstone.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

krushgroove posted:

Is there any sort of expected delivery for the full 1.2 update? After 1.1 came out soon after 1.0 I thought all this snapshot stuff would be fitted into the 1.2 update in the same amount of time, but it seems like they're cramming more and more stuff into snapshots rather than the official update on a regular basis.

I just want to run this new stuff on my little server!

The majority of the current update has to do with a new world format or has to deal with the AI overhaul. Would be silly to release 1.2 with half finished major changes to the game, in fact it would probably be really hard to release it until they are finished. 1.2 will be out when world format Anvil is stable and when the AI has successfully been moved over to the new system so that Jon no longer has to update and maintain outdated code which takes away time and resources from him doing better things. :P

1.1 was mostly just random things, 1.2 seems to be large world and AI changes and is actually how large I would like patches to be. Would rather wait for a huge amount of substantial changes then a few ones that come out rapidly. Plus, gives Jeb and Jon time to flesh out ideas, zombies breaking down doors has led to zombie sieges which has led to npcs having more interesting (though still not useful) AI interactions and the ability to maintain their population levels since Jon was given time to sit down and fiddle with it instead of trying to rush and get it out the door.

Jusupov posted:

That is some nice water


Looks a bit dodgy underwater still.

It is nice, but water is only like that in creative mode so you can build underwater without straining your eyes to see. Creative mode also actives full bright mode for light levels.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Feb 15, 2012

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Nenonen posted:

He must be busy fixing it, let's see...


Let the :emo: begin!

Check a few tweets below that, Jeb knows about the bugs, says he doesn't have time to push out another snapshot today because Notch is dragging him onto a plane. Really doubt that bug would make it to release. :v:

MiracleMouse posted:

Curious... Is the 256 ceiling a mod or is that standard now? When I played MC it was 128 from the bottom of the map to the top, but that was back in alpha and a lomg time ago. So, and If I am correct, the water level was at about 64 and the sky topped off at 128.

E: increase clearity of my question

The current snapshot (a pre-release of the upcoming 1.2 patch for testing purposes/proving they are still working on the game) has changes so that the roof of the world has been raised to 256. 64 is still sea level and clouds are still at 128, you can just now build beyond that height as of next patch. World generation has not (and will not for 1.2 at least) been changed to reflect this so it is literally just extra open space in which to build upwards. Once the new way of storing biome data is fully in place I can see Jeb adding new super high elevation biomes.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Feb 15, 2012

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

DuFfY posted:

I was using the PureBDCraft textures for this session. I feel this stylized look goes well with the game. Any thoughts?

Would say that those textures compliment the world's multiple angles very well. IMOP if the finalized textures were similar in style I would be very happy. Keep up the good work DuFfy, can't wait for an alpha to test.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
For all the Lego talk, I am really not surprised this is the route Lego went for the Minecraft set. You have to remember, that there isn't much iconic looks for Minecraft so the designers do not have much to go off of.

Here is how I am seeing why this came out the way it did.

-Minecraft set pushed by rapid polling from Lego Cuusoo.
-Lego Designers sit down and look at source material for minecraft and begin tinkering with ideas. This is what they have to keep in mind.
1) Try to use existing block shapes, new molds cost hundreds of millions of dollars (or was it hundreads of thousands.. watched a documentary recently, it is something absurdly high for a mold, but Lego is very anal about how well they make their blocks), new shapes have to be profitable for future usage as well to at least pay off the cost of the new mold.
2) Try to keep in existing colors or paint decals. New paint decals, while not as expensive as the molds, are still very expensive and need to be justified. Three tiny decals (one for the 1x1 creeper face and two for the 1x1 studs that make up the Steve face cost significantly less than a full size minifig. If they went for minecraft texture blocks that means they would need decals for trees, stone, dirt, grass, gravel, sand and anything else in between, not only that but the decal would be printed on four sides which is a lot more ink than most blocks with custom decals get.
3) Cost of set. A micro scale set can include more pieces and still give a lot of detail at a fraction of the cost if they were trying to balloon it up to minifig size.

So keeping all those costs in mind, they have to look at the amount of votes the poll got and then consider how many sets would actually sell and design a set that wont have a huge budget, but still has consumer value. Though Minecraft is insanely popular and has the whole building aspect that Lego does, this is still a big investment risk for Lego (especially once you realize that Lego is still pulling out of a huge disaster where they almost shut down in the early 2000s, they are really only now starting to get back on their feet and that is mainly through the help of big brand names like the Star Wars series, they have been trying other brands, but nothing has met the popularity of Star Wars for them).

Honestly what I can see happening is if this set sells well we will see "expansions" to it (its already designed in such a way to allow that) and then maybe so "big" sets that are minifig scale (varied landscape with a detachable top that reveals a ravine intersecting an abandoned mineshaft or maybe a stronghold). Honestly though, this is kind of hard to design something that has consumer value and playability for younger groups. Seems they are marketing the set more like their Lego Architecture line.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Feb 17, 2012

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
Doesn't look like the Lego designers were given much time to come up with something either, design takes several months usually.

Also, correction on my part, molds cost between 40,000 and 200,000 Euros, not including cost of design and prototype mold nor the every three week upkeep they receive.

Found that documentary by the way, really interesting in that not only does it go into the history of the company, but goes through the entire process of building a new set (in this case a police station) from idea to manufacturing.

Part 1 (Starting around 13 min shows the process of making a new mold, continues into part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Puo6yvgoKfI
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COgDQisqx6M&feature=related
Part 3 (Decorating/Painting machines)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJHjd6XmySA&feature=related

Sorry, I'll keep the Lego chat down, just a huge fan of the toy. :P

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

victrix posted:

Maybe you'd know - I dimly remember hearing that Lego gave up the Halo license because it was too violent - am I recalling a rumor?

Now we just need Minecraft Lego Starwars, to complete the circle jerk

Never really heard Lego attempting to pick up the Halo license, they may have contemplated it, but the game was released when the company was really hurting.

As someone else mentioned before, Lego has very tight policies on weapons, mostly for depicting guns. While Lego does provide accessories that may resemble handguns/lasers, they can usually be just as easily mistaken for other things such as loud speaker. Halo would be a rather hard sell seeing it contains so many guns. Any guns you may see in custom builds are from third party sellers.

Mega Bloks (now Mega Brands) usually is the one who devours all IPs it can in order to sell their products, having sets involving anything from Halo to Transformers.

--

I have Jeb's live stream open in another tab and all the hard typing makes it sound like their drat commercial "CLACKCLACKCLACK-CLACKITYCLACK", holy poo poo guys you don't need to be beating your keyboards.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
Fantasy weapons with models that do not resemble modern guns whose parts can also be used for non-weapon purposes.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Hadlock posted:

You should be able to reset the "this was generated with pre 1.2" flag though, right? I'd hate for us to have to create a new map from scratch to get the new terrain.

Not sure if this will still work, but according to Jeb.

Jeb posted:

If you really want the jungles in your 1.1 worlds, you can trick the game to use the new generator by editing the level.dat file with a NBT editor.

The game looks for the tag called "generatorName", and if it's "default" it will also check "generatorVersion" (if it's available). If the version is 0, it will replace the generator with "default_1_1" instead of "default" to switch to the old generator.

To keep the new generator, change "generatorName" to "default" again and set "generatorVersion" to 1. Please note that this will mess up the whole biome randomizer, so it may start snowing in your desert if you're unlucky.

This was way before the official announcement of Anvil, so who knows.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Install Gentoo posted:

An alternate launcher that lags behind in updates, and is nowhere near as easy to use as "go to minecraft site and click link".

:what:


Assuming you mean mod updates (because bitching about it lagging behind in offical updates is stupid because all mods do) the only reason it "lags behind in updates" is for stability and compatibility reasons. In Technic's case, the separate launcher is much much easier and faster because you are not constantly having to check for updates, it applies them when they are ready, you are not having to mess around with the mods trying to get them to work as mod compatibility is still an issue in the modding community.

It is a one time executable that does all the work from then on out, I don't see how this is harder than having to keep track of X amount of mods, uninstall old versions and reinstalling the updated ones, worry about making sure they are working together, making them work together when one happens to update and makes alterations to a class file or block ID already in use and pretty much not receive any help from the developers when their mods clash because the majority of the mod developers seem to be horrible selfish people. And lets not even get started on the SMP capabilities that the Technic launcher allows as well.

Either way, this thread really isn't the place to be going on about mod talk even though the original discussion was mods keeping interests in Minecraft going before Jeb took over.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
I'm still not sure I get your argument? gently caress mods because I'm lazy? I mean, Technic is simply a "go to technic site and click link", same deal as vanilla Minecraft. I don't understand why you are bitching about mods when your argument is "vanilla is faster to install and simpler gameplay for players", usually if you are looking into mods is because you got bored with vanilla gameplay (which is very easy to do) or are using a mod to allow higher resolution textures or ones that improve the game's performance.

Good job being irrationally angry over nothing?

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
By fooling around with the new content. Kind of how you figure out how things work in Minecraft (though, then again with the amount of hits the Minecraft wiki gets, I'm surprised people are able to figure out simple tools..). The reason I replied to you to begin with was because the original post was that mods were too complicated to install and until that changes people will not bother with them, someone else pointed out that the Technic launcher has solved those issues by being a no hassle auto updating installer and you replied that no, it was still too complicated despite the fact that it has the same "go to site and click link" installation as Minecraft does.

It didn't sound like you were saying that it is easier to not use mods (which isn't a very good reason to not use mods, I could say it is easier to not play Minecraft at all because then you won't have to deal with massive disappointment in it's creator), instead it sounded more like you decided to take a poo poo on one of the more progressive solutions to make modding more available to the community at large. Though Technic isn't for everyone, the team behind it could easily set it up to switch between and update different mod packs for various play styles (as seen in the Tecnic or YogBox selections under the main screen's options).

I honestly don't care if you use mods or not or what your opinion of them are, I just think your argument is silly. :v:

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
Anyone know what Jeb is trying to show with slabs in this picture?


Is it that the 2nd slab on the right is a half block off the ground? Could swear you can get that to happen with a bit of fiddling around (placing a half slab high above then placing slabs underneath until you get it where you wanted). Not sure what he has changed unless placing slabs at that height is easier..

Also, since he is fiddling around with slabs and stairs, I hope he adds in sandstone stairs..

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Fuego Fish posted:

You're kidding, right?

Those are half-blocks with the bottom half missing.

Oh god dammit. Was looking at it wrong, was thinking of having a half slab space between slabs of the same material as seen on the left side of this structure:



Yeah, that is pretty nifty.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

Wolfechu posted:

So will villagers repopulate a possibly old village? I've been tooling about on this map since 1.8, and I built a random portal in the nether a short distance from my main one, and it exits into a village square. The place is totally deserted though, so I'm wondering if I passed close by ages ago, before villagers went in.

Running the latest snapshot, is there any criteria for testificates to spawn other than there being houses for them to live in?

They set it up so that the villager mob detects "houses" (they look for doors walls and a roof) and then depending on the number of them they start multiplying, this is kind of neat since you can make cities and they will populate them for you. If there were no villagers to begin with, you will probably have to hop into creative mode and spawn some using mob eggs. I have no idea how golems are determined to spawn though, if they are attached to the village or villagers, you can however make them using four iron blocks and a pumpkin on top in the shape of a "t".

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
Wait, was it Jeb who hired the Bukkit crew? Thought that Jeb didn't have the ability to hire or purchase (code) and that was still up to Notch.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
So new snapshot hit, mostly bug fixes. I don't have time to test it myself right now, but does anyone know what new block Jeb said he added to creative mode?

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
Is that a new sandstone texture I see?

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

thehustler posted:

Also how have I only seen this today?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNw2YcAK9Wc

I know what I'm doing tonight...

Oh my god, it is beautiful.

Enzer
Oct 17, 2008

ChibiSoma posted:

Is the Nether's height or whatever any bigger? Like, would I be able to make a surface portal, climb up real high in the Nether, make another portal, and pop out in god drat outer space? I want a quick way to a space station here, basically.

Don't think the nether was touched for height since Jeb didn't want to mess with world generation code too much and the entirity of the nether is sandwiched between two layers of bedrock. This would also cause major issues for converting 1.1 nethers over.
Hadlock has clearer information on this.

Sonance posted:

Did cave generation get turned back on for 1.2? I know it was turned off (deliberately or accidentally, I'm not sure) on one of last week's snapshots.

That was a bug, it is fixed.
Again, Hadlock has beaten me to the punch. :P

Super Dude posted:

Wasn't the amount of block ids supposed to be expanded?

Yes, that was added in snapshot 12w07a that came out on Feb 15th. There are now 4,096 block IDs for use of future vanilla blocks and to help prevent block ID errors for modding. This is part of the new Anvil file format.

thehustler posted:

I probably missed this over the last few pages, but can you confirm for me, we have to convert worlds in order to use the new double height thing, right? That's a manual thing, the SMP server won't do it automatically or anything like that?

What if we want to use it without the double height for now? Is that doable without conversion?

Edit: Just to confirm this is SMP, not SSP.

Changing to 1.2 requires generating a new world or using this or this. Note that I have not tested these methods myself so back up your world.

There is no way of using 1.2 without converting because the code now relies on the new Anvil file format, all worlds before 1.2 use MCregion format. You can read about the new file format here.

Note that converting an old map to 1.2 will have issues with biomes since biome data is now stored differently instead of relying on a world generation algorithm (this is so that future changes to world generation code will not cause maps to have their biomes be screwed with). So biomes may be redefined randomly. Jeb has placed code in Anvil to allow 3rd party developers to write a tool that can manually redefine a biome, but I do not believe anyone has that tool yet.

Sorry that this will probably cause you problems, depending on the size of your world you could probably use a tool like mcEdit once it works with the new world structure and copy important structures and cities over to a new map. It is why on WilsonSMP we used an island for our 1.0 world since we knew that we would need something easily transportable since Jeb has been talking about these changes for a while now.

Enzer fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Mar 1, 2012

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Enzer
Oct 17, 2008
^^^
That is odd, haven't seen that happen myself, are you in ssp or smp? I know Jeb changed it so that lighting changes are calculated by clients now instead of by the server then having the data sent to the client.

thehustler posted:

Errr. I just put my SMP world in my single player folder and it didn't say "Must be converted" on it. And when I connect to the SMP server it works fine...

So has my server host (Multiplay UK) converted everyone's worlds? Really confused!

Does your server host push patches automatically? You might just want to just give them a call and ask them what is up and if they can assist you with making sure your server is up to date.

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