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Jewel
May 2, 2009



Gorilla Salad posted:

This is probably ancient news to everyone else, but I only just noticed it in one of the recent Yogscast videos - using ladders under water blocks to make jumping from even the greatest heights totally safe.

The setup is this:






Now we just need a nice, high platform to test it from. This should do.





In action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e1Sz6dbuK0

I noticed that too! I was thinking that, in theory, you could put ladders ontop of that water, then lava ontop of that, and basically have a pit full of lava that you can fall through with minimal damage (???).

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Jewel
May 2, 2009



Minecraft 1.8 trailer is now out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYoO9XkCCHg

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Hungry Gerbil posted:

The trailer is not very good at presenting the new features.

No, not really, but I think of it as more of a teaser-trailer. Also in their "Making of" video you can see a lot more detail in the features. In the trailer though, you can see the new land generation with plains and oceans, new dungeons, endermen, new bow, experience, and creative mode!

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Interesting! From Jeb's twitter:

Jeb's Twitter posted:

If the the food bar is empty in MC 1.8, it will slowly drop your health to 5 hearts on easy, to 0.5 hearts on normal, and kill you on hard

I was wondering how food would work. Seems pretty balanced.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



How I long for the day Notch adds small, finite maps again. It felt good making an island your home, knowing every feature of it



Jewel
May 2, 2009



To quote a post from the "Coding Horrors" thread:

quote:

I'm a little more familiar with minecraft's internals than the average player, but less so than modders and server administrators. I'm fortunate enough to rub shoulders with these folks and do the odd bit of mc development work myself, and I'd like to point out that Mojang's testing cannot be considered thorough by industry standards.

For those following minecraft, you'll note than 1.8 was released today. On friday, the first public pre-release came out, and yesterday the second was released. For the first time I started actually documenting the protocol with the help of others in #mcdevs on freenode. Here's some fun things we found, all new bugs:

* Chest state (open or closed) is sent twenty times per second per chest, even if the state hasn't changed. This equates to at least 10kB/s network traffic on a medium-sized server plus the processing the client does
* Same deal with the user list. Each user list packet contains the ping time for one user, and these are sent out twenty times per second per user.
* Experience orbs were broken in 1.8pre1 due to notch's horrible, backwards use of OpenGL. It was already known that dropped items cause serious framerate drops, and the inclusion of orbs made this worse. Multiplayer was unplayable. "So what?", you say, "this is a pre-release". This bug was supposedly fixed by jeb, but instead has resulted in experience orb duping
* The new user list renders improperly with Max Players set above 60, and completely fails to render when Max Players is set above 127.
* The new food system has bugs too - if food saturation is above zero, you can happily not eat without your food decreasing. Only if you take damage will your food start to decrease.
* New player effects can easily be manipulated to give users a speedhack. The server-side stuff that used to detect this cheating has been completely removed.
* The new server list incorrectly assumes a server is up if it has been refreshed within 5s

The best bit is that mojang has no bug tracker. Currently the best thing we have is a wiki talk page that contains some 300kB of plain text for 1.8 ALONE!

And I'm glossing over some of the more egregious bugs that went unfixed for many months. One of my personal favourites was the invisible player glitch - where some players were randomly invisible to others. I play on a player-versus-player server where this sort of thing was pure nightmare material. Imagine playing Halo 3 against an invisible sniper.

I'd like to qualify this whole post by pointing out I'm a huge fan of minecraft and mojang. They do some really great work and have created one of my favourite games ever. I can barely comprehend the amount of time I've spent on it and the good friends I've made. But their development process, QA, and relationship with the modding community continues to suck.

EDIT: I encourage anyone from a technical standpoint to have a look at the protocol docs and gaze in wonder. Also worth bearing in mind that the client's network handling is completely tied up with the physics engine and rendering. They all rely on one another - if one lags, so do the others. The server's model is even more lulsy, involving 4 threads being spawned for every user connected. The server I play on regularly accomodates 50 or more players, and I hear off our techadmins that a significant amount of server cpu time is spent context switching.

By no means is Notch a good coder, and we've known this from the very start, but at least he has some people on the team who hopefully can clean things up. He is creative, and sets a nice base ground for the rest of the team to build up from, or fix.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



And more about snowmen!

Notch posted:

The snowmen are ridiculously suicidal, throwing snowballs at creepers and spiders, annoying them to attack the snowmen. It's funny.

Remember that snowballs deal 0 damage.

They do sound kinda cute

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Holy poo poo, congrats Kas, you just got the biggest namedrop possible.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



New info on potions. ..Interesting?

Jeb posted:

I'm fully aware the potions are very thin (diet?), but it looks cute: http://t.co/g1LwCdlO (Always work in progress, of course)

Jewel
May 2, 2009



mdxi posted:

Dear dude with the terraingen gone completely mad in 1.9p3:

Me, too.

I like the yogscast's explanation to themselves about it. Perhaps Notch was testing either a sky dimension or the floating biomes code (since in the level gen there's that greyed out dropdown like from indev where you could choose floating, hell, island, etc. oh how I miss island), and he left in some code and now they get generated accidentally?

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Summary of what Jeb livestreamed in video form:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ISNXZBUtAU&hd=1

Jewel
May 2, 2009



From Notch's Twitter:

Notch's Twitter posted:

Base texture done. Now to add character. http://t.co/jLYe694i

Siiigh. Who let Notch make programmer-art again? You have /artists/ on your team, use them.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



ArfJason posted:

We already do! Get two same tools together in the crafting tool (same material and all) and they'll sum their durability.

On a different note, yesterday night I spent a good half hour trying to solve a redstone problem, and went to sleep out of frustration. After giving it a good night's rest, I open minecraft, and upon my first attempt, I solve this:

Basically, I was trying to have two levers, and like a hallway's light switches, whenever you pressed EITHER one of the switches, the end product would change (In here the piston).
I made this so I could lower or raise a piston bridge from both sides, but by god did it take time.

I can't tell what you did there because I'm tired but if you didn't, try checking out a XOR gate. Either lever you toggle with toggle the output always.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Wow this is ridiculously close!

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Bicehunter posted:

Hey guys, are computers really that impressive? All they do is paint something on a screen with colors and do some + and -, I know + and -, its not very hard?

Actually he did bring up a legitimate point. I suspect the person in the video is indeed just having an array of "pixels" for each screen, and when you turn or move it just picks the correct array to display. If he's not, and is indeed storing each line and forcing the redstone to draw them with an algorithm, then that's impressive. Otherwise, well, it's like making a program that displays slightly interactive slideshows of google maps and calling it your game.

Plus as someone pointed out, it's redstone. It's Turing complete. It's exactly as powerful as any real circuitry, it just takes a lot more room and runs a million times slower. It's not that amazing, just a bit.. well, time wasting I'd say.

Edit: vvv Because making something in minecraft when you could just code it an incredible amount easier is the cool, hip way to do things. Yeah; I think it's amazing that you totally built something Turing complete out of a very slow system designed to be Turing complete

And raycasting is nowhere near as highlevel as you think. It's; as it says, casting rays in a 3d space, which are just fairly simple line algorithms with a third dimension. Think of a traditional game these days, but instead replace every pixel with a smaller array that encompasses, say, 16 pixel chunks, tracing a line forward in each of the chunks to see what walls it would hit, get the normal of the walls, and adjust lighting accordingly (or with a highlevel raytracing program such as renderers, you would use a higher quality grid, usually 1:1 with pixels, and trace lines outwards from hit objects for reflections and whatnot).

Also yes, a lot of game programmers can't program a simple thing like that because they rely too much on libraries like directX and openGL and whatnot. Kind of sad that not many people do know the logistics and algorithms behind how the actual libraries work, but there is still a lot of people who do, at least for the time being until they're out of the industry.

That is my about raytracing for today. Tune in next week.

Jewel fucked around with this message at Nov 16, 2011 around 13:14

Jewel
May 2, 2009



chippy posted:

Since he was talking of adding occlusion culling, it's presumably the latter.

This is quite true. I realised that after I typed the post, so yes, it is fairly impressive, but the point still stands of why. I mean, you can make a sculpture out of icecream, but why not make it out of stone?

Edit: vvv Hah, yeah, I do always laugh at the visible differences between the types of engineers. I'm a Software engineer with a gamedev hobby, but EE's are always a strange type. EE's like things working, Structural and the various other physical branches like things being perfect, and Software/Comp like things in the middle. When I program, sometimes I get in the mindset of "welp, it works, I'm done here", but I do have to sit there and figure out the best ways to optimize things at times.

Jewel fucked around with this message at Nov 16, 2011 around 13:40

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Eigo posted:

I'm assuming the Yogcast guys, since notch said "celebrity" and people. They swear pretty often it within the first few minutes here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPd9oci4ers#t=2m30s

That's a prerecorded video from months ago. Also Notch said ON stage, like, to a croud.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



A Sassy Dog posted:

H.. has Notch ever watched the Yogscast? One time?

Also on this note, Notch was not offended by the swearing, but he was offended at someone swearing on stage to a crowd. If you've seen the interview between notch and yogscast, notch makes like a billion sexual jokes, so he's not super-stern in that regard, I think he just wants to keep his main events clean-ish for the kids.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Bellend Sebastian posted:

He didn't say on stage at all. Also he mentions the Wynn, which is where the closing party was. Sounds like someone got drunk and told someone to gently caress off, to be honest.

Oh, right, he just said "you don't f-bomb kids". Sorry! My mind took that as someone on a stage saying that to the kids because I'm tired. Yeah that is a possible scenario.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



GreatKesh posted:

I just saw the stuff about the yogs being dickheads at minecon

Is this true?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HddM...s&feature=feedu

http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/c...hs_twitterings/

Jewel
May 2, 2009



The comments are amazing.

"TIME FOR A VACATION"

Also, YEP, THAT'S MY GAME

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:

Why the hell didn't they just take the approach of: remove the hunger mechanic, make health non-regen, and just make food directly replenish health??? This means the player is punished for taking damage, not punished for existing 10 minutes.

I have yet to hear a single good reason for how that would not be a better approach.

That's pretty much what it boils down to. Notch did this because he didn't want people spamming food midbattle. Okay, then why did you add hunger AND a timer for eating food. Why not just use a timer (the eating animation) so you can't eat during a battle otherwise you'll get hit and die?

Jewel
May 2, 2009



All the game's interest is from the fact that it's Virtual Lego. Notch didn't come up with some inspiring idea, he took the idea of Lego, something almost every child played with and loved as a kid, and made it into a game, which was loved, and then he made it more and more like a survival game, which nobody really cares about ultimately. Yes, it makes it more of a challenge and gives you something to do, but would you say you bought Minecraft because of the great AI, or the wonderful combat, or the amazing hunger system?

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Notch just hired the maker of Cube World.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jujKOju_MBM

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Cephalocidal posted:

Was coming here to post this. I really have to wonder what sort of input (if any) he's going to have on the further Minecraft development.

Iacen posted:

But for what? For Minecraft or for another project. Because I'm not sure I will be able to sum up any enthusiasm for a new Mojang game.

It seems that he codes in C++, so I doubt he's going to be a coder. Notch also mentioned wanting to plug his brain into a keyboard, so I think Notch just loves his creativity and wants him to actually think of things that won't be useless. It could be an interesting addition to the team, since he does seem to know what he's doing. Also Notch said that his game will be unaffected, and not affiliated with Mojang.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



tinaun posted:

New snapshot!

About the new Zombie pathfinding AI, I have a friend on twitter who did some testing with it. They can get through a maze by themselves, but they can't perform platforming.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Yeah, I really like it. I'm interested in what language you're using, and how much experience you have with 3D coding before? You seem to be picking it up fast.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Bicehunter posted:

Great, I see no reason why not to do this since I guess the "ground" level will be the same and it will only allow for higher towers to be built.. most of that stuff up there is going to be air anyways and that won't impact fps that much.

Actually unless they recoded the chunks to have "dynamic" heights as said before (which they didn't otherwise the new limit would be infinite), now the maps take up twice as much space (if they're twice as tall) on your computer due to air being actual blocks still stored. At least that's how it used to be, unless they actually made it better. In this case; won't chunks also be larger when sent over multiplayer, ie more lag..??

Edit: I mean yeah it looks cool and everything and I welcome the change, but I just hope they didn't screw it up by doing it lazily.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Notch can either:
A) Want to fund it (Best outcome)
B) Want to fund it and help make it (Notchcode in my psychonauts 2 eww)
C) Do nothing, and was only making a joke (Never know, could only be a joke!)

I do so hope he goes with A

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Death Himself posted:

It feels dumb to say it but I would like to be able to open and close the door at will. Using buttons and pressure plates it flips open for a moment and then you have to scoot through before it closes. I just don't like it.

Use two levers connected to a XOR. Too bad redstone's kinda terrible and it shouldn't be this hard: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/R....28.E2.8A.BB.29

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Since we're just chitchatting about MCEdit, I'll post something from 20 minutes ago on Jonkagstrom's Twitter.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Mmh, I'd say "Just fire him" too but I went to look at the staff page.

Yogscast.Com staff page posted:

Ridgedog oversees all stages in the creation of The Yogscast’s Minecraft videos, with a strong emphasis on the “Shadow of Israphel” series, of which he is the Lead Producer. He first became involved with the Yogscast after his role as Lead Developer of the award-winning adventure map “Deep Space Turtle Chase”. Steve continues to run the renowned Minecraft community “The VoxelBox” and has acted as Lead Admin since it was founded in October 2010.

He seems like he knows how to run poo poo, even if he is an rear end in a top hat. Peva, on the other hand, is already gone from the list, sooo

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Holy poo poo It's like... it's like almost a real game now! Jeb for (Mojang) President.

Though, I'm confused... 'Wooden tools work in furnaces' - what does this even mean?

Guessing it means you can use wooden tools as fuel just like sticks or saplings.

Jewel
May 2, 2009



NO LISTEN TO ME posted:

I really liked how Terraria had tons of items that were purely decorative, and always wished Minecraft did the same. It couldn't be too hard, right? Maybe once they fix out all the weirdness with Single Player just being local Multiplayer they can get to adding more new content.

No, it means modders can add tons of new content.

The best feature about local Multiplayer is that if you can make a mod for singleplayer, now it will automatically work on Multiplayer, so every single mod will work on Multiplayer in the future, once this update's pushed out.

Jewel
May 2, 2009




The thing about this is that Blizzard's servers are calculating positions for every enemy and player and item drop and exp and such, for every single player at once, which means it's doing a lot of data transferring, so that's understandable.

Mojang's servers only have to handle in logging in a single time per user per play session, which is an incredibly low amount. Not to mention they obviously have the money to get better servers.

Edit: vvv Well yeah, there was many ways they could have or should have done it, but with the current method they used, it's understandable why it went down.

Jewel fucked around with this message at May 31, 2012 around 03:15

Jewel
May 2, 2009



tinaun posted:

He considers halfblocks to be the worst thing he ever added to the game, so it will be a long time before anyone adds other small decorative blocks.

This is not because of the decorative nature, it's because of how badly he programmed them. He had to make halfblocks and double halfblocks seperate blocks for reasons unknown and etc

Jewel
May 2, 2009



The block only exec's admin commands. It can execute commands like "teleport the player here", or "give the player a certain item", or "change the difficulty of the game". Map creators can use these to make a button that changes the game from peaceful to hard, or give the player an item every time they press the button. It's not useable in multiplayer natively because why the hell would you want people having access to admin commands if they're not admin. If they are admin, they can just go into creative mode and spawn some themselves, what's the big deal here?

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Also this is strange.

Jewel fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2012 around 14:45

Jewel
May 2, 2009



Ahah, the Wither seems so easy to spawn, can't wait to hear people complaining that someone spawned one next to their house and completely demolished it.

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Jewel
May 2, 2009



Strategic Tea posted:

I'm not convinced by this 'mods are the future' stuff. It's one thing with Skyrim where people have been adding tits on top of finished games using infrastructure that's been there for years. But most of my minecraft modding has taken all afternoon and left me with a black screen, and I'm not convinced most players want to put in that much effort.

That said, we still have a stream of awesome features, so to that.

That's the thing though. That's what the API stops happening. You don't have to copy files into your minecraft jar and hope they work, you just drop them in a MODS folder and they'll work no matter what version of minecraft (unless there's a major change, which, with the mod API will be easier to fix for the creator of the mod), AND on both singleplayer and multiplayer servers.

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