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angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
I'm not talking about anything in this stupid argument.

Anyway I'm kind of excited for Skullgirls because it looks fun in the same way Guilty Gear was. I'm kind of worried it will end up playing too much like Marvel though, but I'm looking forward to giving it a try. Unfortunately no one in my scene is excited for it at all, so I have to hope it's just really good and once they all see it in action they will give it a try. Because regardless of how good it is, if no one plays the game it will be irrelevant like KoF.

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angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Unlikely here but worth posting:

If anyone goes to University of Florida or lives close to Gainesville, we are having "Wednesday Night Fights" this Wednesday and every Wednesday to try to expand our scene and offer a weekly tournament. They haven't told us what location we can use (somewhere on campus) but hoping we can get a decent turnout... I can't go this week but should be able to go most weeks. We will have AE and Marvel 3.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

Groghammer posted:

It's been a slow couple of days for me so I got back into my copy of Guilty Gear AC+. I'm thinking about changing my main from Jam (:laffo: 6x card chaining) to Zappa (ghosts) or May (3K). Not sure, though.

Also, I really wish Matrimelee got to the States. Who can't love a game whose final boss theme is a rock version of the Wedding March? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QkA5E8DwTo

May's 3k isn't really that good... it's pretty situational. I mained May from #R to AC and I pretty much regret it. To be fair I wasn't that good but I played with really good players (Alex G etc.) and there were matchups where it felt almost impossible to do anything as May such as May vs. Johnny (at least in #R and slash). Her combos were fun until AC until they threw out all her cool poo poo and gave her the "boring loop" which is effective but loving stupid.

Her 5HS is pretty good especially as a meaty and for counterhit fishing because it staggers on CH and it is + on block as well. I never really figured out how you're "supposed" to play her because high level May in tournament vids were rare back when GG was big. I think the most effective May I ever saw just kind of ran up from really far away and command grabbed, it worked because he could punish really hard if they tried to avoid it. In a lot of matchups you kind of have to IAD backward a lot and fish for j.HS counterhits. Vs. Potemkin and poo poo I never could figure out what to do at all. Basically her normals were okay in many situations but I specifically remember against my friend who was very good with Johnny I felt completely countered when it came to footsies. There seemed to be no optimal range where I had an advantage, he could 6HS MC from half screen and I just had no idea what to do. I wish I could go back and play the game again because I feel like I'm a lot better at FG's in general now and there's stuff I'd like to try out with May to see if it was the character or if it was just me. I quit right as AC came out basically but she seemed significantly better in that game for what it's worth.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
On counter-hit it does a lot more stun. Usually if you counter-hit with it once and then hit them with it again at all they'd stun. I don't think it stunned in one CH against anyone but Chipp though.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

ShinsoBEAM! posted:

I'm pretty darn sure Dizzy has the same stun rate as Chipp so it should work against her too.

I used to play a lot against a Dizzy and I don't remember getting a stun in one CH but who knows it was too long ago :/

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
I'm finally trying to put some actual effort into ST. I played it a while back and used Fei, but then I stopped and then whenever someone randomly had it running at a meetup I would play and use Boxer because he was so easy to use. I'm started to learn Honda now because he actually seems fun, had fun playing with him so far except when I went up against Claw who I swear breaks everything fun about this game at least until I learn the matchups against him I guess.

I don't really understand his character design and why his wall dive moves work well even without a knockdown. It seemed like if he did one randomly while I was standing I could headbutt to just dodge it, get away, and build meter (reset the situation basically), and if I tried to butt slam I'd usually just get hit and sometimes trade. I tried to anti-air it with j. fierce but that didn't seem to work at all because I'd just get grabbed.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Niddhog where do you live in Florida? I probably won't go just curious.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Seriously just play a turn-based game. I like turn-based games for different reasons than I like FG's. Don't think I'm being obtuse by being overly black and white "if you don't like one frame links then go play a turn-based game".

Execution serves primarily as something that can shine through under pressure and especially something that can click on really well when you are in a groove. It makes it more rewarding when you make a really good STRATEGIC read and it clicks something in your brain that makes you hit whatever next combo perfectly, and then you make another perfect read again and it repeats. Your brain really will go into this alternate mode and it feeds off of execution and the rewarding feeling of hitting it right. When you're doing lovely is usually when you're consciously thinking about trying to hit some combo or having a dialogue in your head about what poke to use in the middle of a match.

If you take out the execution then playing FG's wouldn't satisfy the itch I feel scratched from playing them.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Anyone going to the Tallahassee tournament today? I'll be in AE and maybe 3s.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
I remember in Chongqing arcade scene there were two main different groups but we traveled back and forth between different arcades so it was still like a unified scene even though everyone had their home arcade. The only lovely thing was only a few of the best players would want to talk about what you did right and wrong after a session of matches. When I visited Chengdu people had notepads out and stuff and were writing down mistakes they made and matchup specific stuff. You'd get into ten minute discussions after playing someone about really specific stuff. It was sick.

After I got back to Gainesville the scene was just starting to get bigger, one guy here has been putting a lot of effort in to actively build it. None of us are really able to host "crack sessions" but we generally have two to three meetups per week; if it's at someone's house it's several hours long with at least three setups. The dude that put in the most work just started a campus-hosted "Wednesday Night Fights" at UF which is separate from the "gaming club" though it's still technically part of it (saved him the hassle of making his own club, but we are completely autonomous and there is no crossover). Doing this lets us have a public meetup where anyone can drop by and play and it is just kind of advertised as being out there. This has seemed to pull a lot more people out of the woodwork who we can get to attend other meetings and stuff. We usually have ranbats or tournaments at WNF and we'll host a big tournament at the end of the semester.

It's so much harder in the US to get good than it was in China. Like in China I could actively try out new poo poo that I learned at a whim; I could always just walk to the arcade and play whenever I felt like it any day of the week any time of the day. Here I have to make sure I go to a meetup and make sure that I make the most of each time I go out to a meetup or travel to a tournament. One nice thing is that I put more concentration and effort in when I play since it's usually once or twice a week instead of almost every night. When you can play whenever you want, you really can take it for granted and stagnate at times.

A lot of people advocate playing online, including our best player here, but I just can't get anything from it. If I didn't have a good scene here I would probably try to get one going, but if I couldn't I would likely just put the effort I spend on fighting games toward something else entirely instead of playing online or driving to tournaments a few times a year.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Played KOF some last night. I like it but it plays very weird if both people don't know how to execute solid rushdown (which you won't know how to do without playing a lot or watching some vids etc.) It seems like a really good game but I'm guessing no one is going to play it :/

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
I don't know how I feel about a bunch of new games coming out. We've got a fairly even split in my scene between AE and Marvel, with slightly more people playing AE. KOF just came out and we've got like four or five people interested in learning it. At least with the scene of this size (maybe 20-30 people, 10 or so show for a meetup) two games is pretty much the max you can handle. Third strike got some play time after release but that pretty much stopped as of a month ago. KOF will probably end up the same way and we'll be back to AE and Marvel.

I don't play Marvel; I can't get into it. There are a few Marvel players who don't play AE. We pretty much never talk to each other since we don't play any of the same games and we're always on different setups. Once SFxTekken comes out it will again potentially seek to displace AE... I don't even know what Capcom is trying to do with xTekken to be honest. If the game sucks completely people will probably just keep playing AE. If xTekken is decent but not as good as AE it will probably kill off both games. If it's really good then it will replace it and whatever.

In my scene at least, Skullgirls will make no impact. Almost no one is excited about playing it, those that are kind of excited about the gameplay are lukewarm because of the upskirt poo poo (not reigniting this argument but that is objectively what most people in my scene have said regarding it).

I don't think MvC3 is a very fun game; I don't really want to play it. Lack of traditional footsies and combos that take like thirty seconds just kill it for me. I don't think AE is super loving amazing but it is the best "traditional" FG that is actually played right now. AE has a lot of faults and it's really a shame that they didn't change any underlying game mechanics through all of its iterations and instead just added ten characters every time. It seems like they are just doing a new game (SFxT) on the same engine, but within that game it seems they are repeating many of the mistakes of SF4 while adding in a whole slew of new terrible decisions. It might end up being good, but if it doesn't it will probably knock SF4 out of being relevant and make Marvel the only game with a large presence (and this is all talking from the perspective of the US FG scene).

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Yeah I missed a chance to play kof in china. To be fair I kind of tried off and on but never stuck :/

Some of the marvel players are giving it a shot, I'm going to try playing it too I just don't see it holding as a game people play in the US for an extended period of time.

Tournaments are important because it forces you to play your best. I dropped the ball at the last tournament I went to and got knocked into losers by a complete scrub. That had never happened to me in a tournament and it completely shattered my nerves and then I lost in losers. It showed me that I specifally need to work on keeping my emotions in check. It's hard to figure out weaknesses like that by just playing casuals. The same goes for losing in a tournament because you went up against some character you had no idea what to do against. In casuals you might just think "eh gently caress that character". But when you lose to that in a tournament you really realize how important matchup knowledge is.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Played KOF13 for the first real time tonight.

I'm using Mai, Daimon, Mature. No real reason just what I'm using to figure out some characters.

I'm doing best with Mai pretty much. Her projectiles seem really good, the EX one seems especially broken since it hits almost instantly, knocks down, and does way more damage than it should. Up close she frametraps very easily to the point where you can just walk up throw people after a while.

Daimon is a loving mystery. I can't figure out how his command grab is supposed to work. So many times I did like short hop with j.B or something and waited what felt really long, then did a command grab and it showed the whiff animation when I was seemingly right next to them. I can land it sometimes but I just don't understand if I'm doing it too early or too far away (both seem so implausible given that I'm waiting really long and that I'm also really close... even the EX one will whiff like this).

Mature seems pretty lame. I liked her turtle style in 98 but her fireball game seems pretty poo poo in this game.

The game seems fun overall but I'm pretty half and half on it.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
I had been using the HCB almost exclusively... I need to buy the game so I can actually practice it in training mode I guess

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Facebook's group function has suddenly become much better than before. If you don't have a scene or your scene is too small, I'd recommend trying to make a Facebook group. We made one for our pre-existing scene and it helped it to grow a lot. Basically the chat for the group will show up on your Facebook if someone uses it, so even someone who joined on a whim will see people talking about playing games, saying "anyone want to play now?" etc. You can also post onto the group's wall and say something like "Anyone hosting tonight? I feel like playing KOF again" etc.

If you're trying to build the scene from almost nothing you could just have the group there and open, advertise it on SRK (you should post on SRK's regional forum to find people btw). Another advantage of Facebook is you can feel out a person by looking at their profile and decide whether you want to deal with them or not.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
drat Honda is 51

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

Question Mark Mound posted:

Speaking of lovely fighting games, does anyone remember that game that was being developed a few years ago that used digitised photos of people like in early Mortal Kombat, except the photos were all HD and people had different stances for the left and right sides of the screen?

It looked unbelievably 90s and had a name like "Dark Violence" or something like that. I definitely remember one character was a guy with a t-shirt wrapped around his face.

I really just want to see if anything happened with it.

I know what you're talking about, it's not Death Cargo. I remember it too but can't remember the name at all. They were going to do an arcade release in the US before consoles (just like the 90's) and they had really stupid back stories for all the characters. There was tons of info about the process but no clue really how it would work as a fighting game. Everything about it was like "This will be so cool" from people who obviously don't play fighting games at any form of competitive level and/or weren't even aware of the competitive FG scene. It was basically like if you asked some kids in 1994 who really liked MK to design a FG.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
My list of games for new players to potentially get into:

MvC3 or SF4 are your best bets to get into the "FG scene" and have fun. ST on GGPO is your best bet to get really nice fundamentals, play online in a way that is viable, and have fun. I would not seriously consider anything else as far as 2d fighters go.

MvC3 advantages:

-You can realistically get good at doing basic combos with minimal training mode grinding per day.
-It is fun to build teams, think about synergy, and use all the unique characters.
-There is a huge scene for it and if you don't want to bother learning to play stick, it's probably the game with the most pad players.

MvC3 disadvantages:

-It can be really boring to watch yourself get comboed for 20 seconds off of one hit. To some people (myself included) this is a massive strike against the game.
-You will not learn "2d fighter fundamentals", you will learn "marvel fundamentals". There is SOME carry over, but you will more or less have no idea what you are doing in a game like ST or SF4.
-Online play is terrible; it's the worst of all the games I am listing. I know very few marvel players that even bother playing online.

SF4 advantages:

-It's more or less the only footsie-oriented 2d fighter that you will likely find a scene for outside of very major US cities.
-The skills from this game will transfer over to other 2d fighters.
-The "fireball game" is present in this game and is a classic element that has existed from SF2.
-Online play is not great but is certainly doable. You could potentially only play this game online but I would not recommend that.

SF4 disadvantages:

-The fireball game and footsie-oriented points I mentioned in the advantages dissolve against certain characters.
-Until you are very familiar with the game, a lot of the characters feel incredibly boring and uninspired.
-Basic combos (links mostly) are generally harder to get around for newer players. In Marvel you can usually do an easy variant of a combo; in SF4 you often MUST be able to do a link, a piano, or some other difficult timing/input or you are throwing away 75% of your potential damage.
-At high level play, there are some really stupid matchups and arguably annoying things you must be able to do.

ST advantages:

-"the best" game. Most people who play 2d fighters will concede this is still the best 2d fighter. It is solid and deep as gently caress.
-You can play online only because the netcode on ggpo is so good. Extremely good players are on ggpo and you can learn a lot from them.
-If you are good at this game, you will quickly be good at any 2d fighter you put your hands on.
-This game has the purest footsie/fireball game: It feels like a loving awesome chess match where you yell "YOMI" instead of "CHECK".

ST disadvantages:

-You can usually get people you are playing with IRL to break the game out from time to time but no one will main it IRL. There may be places where people meet every week to play ST but for most cities it's just SF4 and MvC3 offline.
-Very strict input requirements. You have to hit reversals with perfect timing, you cannot slack on any input or the move just won't come out. At high level play this can enter into situations where: "You must reversal on wakeup or you will get knocked down again" and then that knockdown loops the situation. If you don't reversal you lose the round.
-The game definitely looks and feels old. Certain things that are "part of the game" will seem ridiculous to a new player, such as game slowdown in certain fireball situations.

Verdict

Play MvC3 or SF4 if you want to play offline. Maybe add ST on the side. If you just want to play online, play ST, maybe play SF4 on the side.

SFxT I would disagree that it "isn't going anywhere". Capcom doesn't want to admit they wasted all their time on it, but ever since SF4 and MvC3 have come out, no other game has consistently been a "main game" aside from those two. SFXT is not a strong enough game to change that.

Any other game you think you might want to get into 2d fighters with will have no scene. If you want to play P4A or something and you have confirmed found a scene on Dustloop of like six people, then you may be an exception and maybe you should go for it if that's what you really want to play. From what I have seen, any game other than SF4 and MvC3 gets some play a month or two after release and then disappears forever.

angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Mar 7, 2013

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
KOF98 is really good and there are other good games that get play on GGPO. I recommended ST because it really gives you the best of everything. If you start with ST and get decent at that, you will have a much easier time branching out into other stuff on GGPO.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
In SF4, once you get a few characters' links down you'll essentially be able to select a character you've never played before in a match and start trying to do their 1, 2, or 3 frame link and probably be able to start hitting it after a few tries.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
I think the main point is that anyone, given enough time, would be perfectly comfortable on a square gate, standard stick. The most tangible disadvantage I can list of not using the most standard thing is that you inconvenience everyone when your turn comes up by having to plug it in and make button checks happen in casuals. For my scene personally almost no one uses a non-standard device so we can just rotate really fast and not button check. As soon as some pad player or octo-gate dude comes in it's added hassle (both when he gets on and gets off).

For the person with the non-standard controller himself, it's annoying to be tied down to a very specific thing that other people probably don't have. You are inconveniencing yourself to the same degree when you switch in and out. Also if you end up playing in tournaments you better make sure nothing happens to your controller during the tourney. I know some pad players have to play with their specific pad or the entire weight and everything feels off to them and they get hosed up. I've seen people lose their special pads in the middle of tournaments. As a square gate, standard controller person, I don't give a poo poo what stick I play on; I can play on any standard stick.

I feel almost like hitboxes or pads are the only justifiable thing other than a standard stick. The guy asking here about a hitbox, yeah if you have played for years on keyboard you probably want to get a hitbox because unlearning that and learning stick will take way longer than the standard 1.5 month adjustment period that it takes to go from pad to stick. Pad, especially if you mostly play marvel, is okay because a lot of people played pad a LONG time and don't want to spend all the time learning stick for a negligible gain.

The reason octo-gates are so scorned is because you have to specifically choose to subject yourself to the disadvantages I listed above for no real reason. No one "Just started playing on an octo-gate". You have to consciously decide to do that and the reason 95% of the time is thinking it will be a magic bullet to making learning stick easier (it's not).

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

junan_paalla posted:

I'm looking for a good/tight local-2-player fighting game for stoned bullshitting and finding out who is THE MAN, for the PC. So far our group of friends has played DBZ Budokai 3 (emulated), Tekken 5 (emulated), SSBB, and Street Fighter X Tekken. SSFIV sounds like the reigning king at the moment, but goon opinions are always welcome.

Even though SF4 is my favorite fighting game to play, for your purposes I don't think it's a great choice. If you just want to have fun with your friends and don't really care to work your way toward high level play or whatever, then SF4 is going to just feel really boring. I feel like KOF98 is actually really fun to play when everyone is pretty new.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

Ultimate MvC3: Goddamn this game is fun I totally forgot how much I liked it the first MVC3, are they doing a revision? From looking at tourney vids the balance is still a bit poo poo?

DOA5: I don't like DOA games at all I'm not sure why I tried this. Anyway

SFxT: Is it good now? All I remember was glancing at opinions around release and people HATING it but it was supposed to have gotten a bunch of patches.

Skullgirls: Did this ever take off? Simple "Yes" or "Lol" will suffice

Divekick: I kinda want to play this

This is going to depend on your scene and location etc., but as for me:

MvC3: One of two permanently active games. I hear a lot of people bitch about the game being broken and kind of wonky but everyone has fun with it and it is not going anywhere.

SF4: The other game that isn't going away. This latest version is a lot more balanced than AE was but has the same overall things that are bad about it that it has since vanilla. In all of the versions they released, they never actually changed any of the systems. The game seems faster only because the top tier is a lot more rushdown/vortex characters rather than Sagat and Ryu. Fortunately/unfortunately they are looking to release another balance tweak soon. It will bring fresh interest in again at the risk of ruining the balance completely (or possibly improving it...)

SFxT: It's better than it was, but it's not going to happen. It will probably be forced into EVO again this year and people who regularly place in majors will put in the time required to try to milk some money out of this, but don't bother unless you and your friends inherently just love this game.

Skullgirls: This thread is biased toward Skullgirls, but "lol" is the answer you actually want.

Divekick: Gimmick but the FGC loves hypding dumb poo poo like this and people will probably bring it out sporadically to dick around with.

angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Mar 26, 2013

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
edit: NEVERMIND

angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Apr 4, 2013

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Learn Balrog or Guile's combos (assuming SF4):

Balrog: cr. lp cr. lp LINK cr. lk xx fierce headbutt
Guile: cr. lp cr. lp LINK cr. mp xx HK flash kick

Practice them off a jump in, start charging down back after you jump in. This will give you some muscle memory for charging ahead of time. I can't for some reason recall if these combos inherently give you enough charge from standing or not, but just practice them off jump-ins first. Once you have these down you should have a much better idea of how much charge time feels right.

angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Apr 6, 2013

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Fixed it... don't know what I was thinking there!

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
I think we're already well over the saturation point. Every time a new game comes out or an old game is re-released, I know that it's going to get a few weeks to two months, maximum, of play time in my scene before everyone goes back to SSF4 and Marvel. I don't feel much satisfaction from learning a game in the early stages and having everyone stop playing it by the time we start figuring it out.

After SFxT flopped I don't really know what can replace SSF4 and Marvel other than SSF5 and Marvel 4.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

MrJacobs posted:

Didn't SFxT sell more than UMVC and AE Disc versions of SSF4? I know it sold a lot less than they expected, but I don't think it was a failure in that it made no profit whatsoever.

I don't know poo poo about sales figures but I am pretty sure the game failed based on how fast the price dropped. I was actually speaking about its failure more in terms of how quickly the competitive scene stopped caring about it. A fighting game has to displace the existing most popular fighting game in order to last competitively. There are a very limited amount of places for games that will continue to be played competitively for more than a year. For 2D-fighters, SSF4 and Marvel have that genre locked down. There are some spaces left open for 3D-fighters, maybe there is room for like two big 3D-fighters? Tekken and Soul Calibur, I guess? This explains why Virtua Fighter, despite being a good game, can't get big outside Japan.

SF4 came after a five-year plus fighting game drought, so it didn't have to beat anything. This is probably why, despite its many faults, it did so well. Marvel 3 appealed to the other end of the spectrum for 2D-Fighters: SSF4 is "boring" and footsie-based, Marvel is flashy and very different from SSF4 even though it's a 2D-Fighter.

Any time a new 2D-Fighter tries to break in and be a game that is played competitively, it fails if it can't just displace either SSF4 or Marvel 3. I think this is why so many people sighed when they announced SFxT. No one knew what it was trying to do. Was it meant to replace SSF4? If not, why the gently caress were they making it? It was too boring to replace Marvel, but the fundamental fighting game stuff of it was lovely feeling and you couldn't even punish people rolling out of the corner until they re-released it for $60 after more than a year. The idea of poking with standing light kick and buffering into standing strong, which you then mash into a tag-in is so inherently not fun and uninteresting that I almost doubt that Capcom can make a good fighting game ever again. It's also painfully boring to watch.

Skullgirls, the new Mortal Kombat, Persona 4, that superhero game, KOF13, SOME of these were okay games but they weren't enough to displace the games that already are filling the market. Capcom needs to find a way to milk money out of the new games they make which actually intend to replace SF and Marvel. Gems in SFxT seemed like an experiment to monetize beyond initial game sales, but it was a totally awful idea. When a $20 (how much did it cost?) DLC for new characters and more money for a bunch of gems didn't work, they just re-released it for full price. They can't combine these business models; it needs to be one or the other.

I think they should really consider making a game either free or under $15 with 6-8 base characters, then selling each character and costume individually like League of Legends. The idea of paying $60 for a slightly re-balanced game is perfectly okay for people like us that are really into a game, but casual players will not pay that. The biggest issue with this model is that every setup you bring to a meetup will basically have to have all the characters unlocked. It would be nice; though, if a casual player could be scrolling through PSN or Xbox Live and see a full fighting game for free on instant download. If he likes the initial eight characters he can buy more. If he thinks the game sucks then whatever. I honestly can't even fathom why a casual player would pay loving $60 for a fighting game. The value just is not there if you aren't going to get deep into the game.

angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Apr 12, 2013

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

flatluigi posted:

That is probably the worst comparison you could make, dude. I don't even play dotalikes and I'm aware of completely hosed the balance of that game is because of their model.

Yes, it's very obvious you don't play. The balance isn't affected at all; you can unlock everything without ever spending real money. The only thing you can't buy with in-game earned currency are cosmetic skins. I made the comparison because it's a game with a high skill ceiling that is very easy to get your friends into, primarily because it's free. The longer LoL is successful as a competitive game, the more money they will make due to their model (people really love buying skins and impatient people just HAVE TO have the newest characters and will spend real money on them). With SSF4, the longer the game is successful, the longer the people who already bought it get to play it for free. Capcom is then forced to release a balance update and charge at least half of full price for it.

I don't think Capcom needs to directly copy the LoL model, but they should look at why it works and how it has earned Riot a shitload of money for a game that you can download and start playing for free. I'm sure they looked at it when deciding to implement gems, but that was a very misguided and a totally lovely idea.

I think I have very high standards as far as what is worth playing. I don't feel that Persona 4, for example, has a scene that is worth investing time into. If you live in an area where there is a significant Persona 4 or KOF13 scene, then it might be different for you. I think it's safe to say that if you travel around the world, any FG scene you find is going to have people playing SF4 (and in the US Marvel 3), Persona 4 or other niche games you will find many scenes where no one plays them.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
I tried googling around for you but couldn't find anything more recent than 2011. I vaguely remember that I had to download some tool to make it work, but you probably want to google around yourself because you have to factor in what version of windows and motherboard you have.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

Brosnan posted:

This is wrong and as terrible as it is for a dotalike, it's an even dumber idea for a fighting game.

Like, pretty much everything you've posted recently here has been wrong.

In LoL you get points for playing games. You can spend those points to unlock poo poo. After playing for a while you have spent enough points to have everything you need to play competitively. I don't really want to bother arguing, but don't just dismiss everything someone says with "This is wrong" when you have nothing to back it up with. Most of what I have been saying is just my opinion, if you want to disagree with it then just say your opinion rather than a contentless "you are wrong."

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Ah, I hadn't realized the big SFxT patch was free :(

I don't think I buy enough games to put myself into the casual game buyer's shoes. If I spend $60 on a game, I want to hugely enjoy it for the short time I play it, or get hundreds of hours of play out of it. I can see that casual players buy fighting games for $60, but it seems odd to me. It's worth $60 for me because I know I'll play the poo poo out of a fighting game, but I just don't see the $60 value for a casual player.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

RickoniX posted:

It takes dozens of games to get a single character for each of the 100 characters, not to mention 17-30k ip per runepage

You definitely have to farm IP to play competitively, or you can pay less than $60. Either way it is a model that allows you to start playing for free, then play more for free to get stuff, or pay a reasonable amount of money if you don't want to wait and grind IP. Usually by the time you have played enough to want to be competitive, you have farmed enough IP to have unlocked some characters for each role and appropriate full rune pages.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

interrodactyl posted:


Congrats, you are the worst kind of 09er.

I've been playing competitive FG's since Guilty Gear XX #R, so cool random assumption.

I'm also not complaining that SF4 and Marvel are entrenched, I'm just pointing out a tendency. I move a lot and because I play SF4, I can move and play it wherever I live. That's my reason for sticking with it.

I live in a college town now and yes, if someone really likes a game it can get some play in. Our scene has like ten core people with usually 5-8 per meetup. The pool of players just isn't big enough to allow for tons of different games to get play.

quote:

Something like 300 wins and I don't know how many losses and grinding via bot games hasn't gotten me enough to have all the runes and champions I need to feel remotely comfortable playing competitively in League

I think I will concede this point. I have just played LoL casually since beta and never felt a rush to get IP, so my perception is probably warped. I got all the runes I needed a very long time ago and I have enough characters to play any role. I never spent any real money on the game.

I don't know how FG's could adopt a similar model, but I think there is merit to the idea of a lower entry point supported by a sane amount of DLC rather than $60 for a game. The idea doesn't appeal to me personally because I am fine paying $60 for a game that I will play five years, but it seems like Capcom is struggling to make money on FG's.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Guilty Gear was during the "drought". At that time the only games I could play locally were Guilty Gear or Third Strike. Nothing was streamed so the entire "FGC" to me was just the people I played with locally, rare tournaments, and we occasionally had people come from other cities or we'd travel there to play other scenes. You had to import decent sticks from Japan and I think I paid like $50 on shipping alone to get a Hori. After SBO you had to wait for the DVD's to come out and one person would buy them and then we'd all go to his house and watch it.

I love how I have to argue that I am "OG" enough to make a point that the market is saturated right now. It's cool if you can get play out of a niche game, but I personally wouldn't want to invest a lot of time into a game that I couldn't guarantee is going to be played at most tournaments or in most scenes.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

sentrygun posted:


I'd love to see something good that brings new players into fighting games and helps them understand what's up in the game itself rather than having to hunt down guides on the internet, but I don't think the League system is the way to do it.

The one-on-one nature of FG's turns a lot of people off. It's what appeals to me the most about it, but casual players generally have trouble getting into anything that makes their complete lack of skill completely apparent. LoL works because you can yell at your "lovely team mate" when you gently caress up (and this is also the biggest downfall of DOTA-likes), but if you get destroyed in a FG, you just realize that you suck. Story modes, trials, and costumes help to ease casual gamers in, but there really isn't enough. I've heard the Virtua Fighter games have great in-game tutorials. I don't know why they don't put more focus on this, my nebulous idea of a monetized DLC model would not directly mirror LoL, but it would aim to make the barrier to entry lower and make money along the way. I don't have concrete ideas for what this would look like.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
How are you making the game cabbagepots? Do you have like a team of people?

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Could we not just say that both methods have merit and are a nice way of learning 2d fighters?

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angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
Because you would do those things just long enough to understand them and then add in more stuff?

I don't think the method in question is ideal for everyone, but if you try the way you are describing and still find yourself mashing random poo poo, then maybe you can unbind buttons?

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