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Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



NatasDog posted:

Man, I was just starting to burn out on this too. Now I want to try out cargo distribution. My library of unplayed shiny FPS games on Steam will just have to rot a little longer.

Edit: Any idea if the cargo distribution mod works with industry mods like FIRS?

Yeah, it works fine with any cargo. Basically, it distributes cargo to any destination station which is accessible from the source station - so if you only allow one accessible station, that's the only place cargo will go. However, if you have an extensive networks of trains planes and buses, a person at a bus stop at one end of the map might want to end up at an airport at the other side of the map. It's cool.

There's another cargodest patch which gives each bit of cargo a random square (if it's a person it's a house square, if it's some coal it's a power station etc.) as its destination, and if you don't serve that square then the cargo doesn't go, but that's hard as gently caress as you basically have to link up the entire map.

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Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



piratepilates posted:


edit: Also since you mention bridge signals, make sure you have a separate signal before and after the bridge, bridge/tunnel signals can be bugged sometimes.

Yeah, bridge signals don't always unreserve paths properly causing blockups like that so yeah, do this.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Iunnrais posted:

Hrm. It seems you guys use CargoDist instead of YACD... have you considered switching? I've been playing singleplayer with YACD and I love how it can subtly recommend I stick an airport in to shuttle passengers all the way across the map. The fact the little civilians pick where they want to go before you make it possible is neat.

I used it on a tiny 3-city map and tried to get 100% connectivity, it was fun but pretty hard. What sort of sizes of map are you playing it on and how hard is it to make money? I remember reading it struggled when the map got big, has that been improved or was it never really much of a problem in the first place? I do agree that it's very cool though.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



kingturnip posted:

Basically, CargoDist assigns a destination to every unit of cargo/passengers that the game creates.

Example 1: You create a route from Coal Mine A to Power Station Z. Coal at Coal Mine A is assigned a destination of Power Station Z, because it's the only place the coal can get to.
Example 2: Now connect Power Station Y to your network (possibly because you're using the mod that gives industries finite capacity) and some of the coal will want to go there instead. So now you need to set up trains to take the coal there.

Example 3: You've got a delightful network set up allowing Factory X to spunk as many goods out as possible. You want those goods to go to Buntingbridge (because it's a million miles away and it'll make you rich), so you connect Factory X to your Passenger network to make it happen. Except now that all the towns in your Passenger network can receive goods, your goods want to go there as well. Oops. Hope you can afford to create 75 new trains to transport your goods.

So what CargoDist does is force you to be a bit more realistic at times with how you set your networks up.

That's not quite right - like Elukka said, cargo has to be able to get to a destination somehow before it "wants" to go to that destination. So you'd only get your last two examples if you'd set up, say, a train from the factory/coalmine to all the towns/power stations.

It is sort of like how YACD works though, except that every possible destination is fair game, even if it doesn't have a station nearby.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



LordSaturn posted:

I'm running the version from the OP.

Do conditional orders suck? I just wanted my train to have the option of loading up at a less-productive well if the more-productive well hadn't filled it up entirely, but removing the conditional jump is the only way to make him finish loading at the more-productive well before taking off.

I'm not really familiar with conditional orders, but are you sure you haven't accidentally made leaving conditional on being 100% full? Screenshot and post your original and modified order lists if you're still stuck.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



quote:

'you now can assign speed limits to your surface vehicles.'


Why would you want to?

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



piratepilates posted:

Having all your trains on a section of rail going the same speed leads to a smoother flow because you don't have a bunch of faster trains catching up to the back of some slower trains and constantly starting and stopping and bunching up. I talked to the devs in irc and they say it can be done for segmented sections fo rail so it's not just for the whole trip a faster train is going slower than it can but only for certain sections when it will interact with slower trains.

We had special speed limit signs in one of the patchpacks we used and as far as I know nobody ever used them but yeah, that's the only use we could come up with. I guess it'd be fun to try on realistic and cheap networks, though I can't imagine it'd be that useful. Generally I feel that either you'd be annoyed at fast trains going needlessly slowly on empty track, or you've got so many trains on there that you may as well build another track.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



thehustler posted:

The last time I played OpenTTD I realised that the weird city-growing algorithms meant that your cities grew incredibly strangely around whatever stations you put down, making it very irritating to plan things. Putting a big station on one side meant it grew on all 3 sides around it, but not behind the station you put down.


This is annoying, but is usually helped by bridging over the tracks by the station and maybe building a bit of a 3x3 grid. The trouble usually is that there's nowhere for the city to build a bridge if you don't do a bit of fiddling, or that it's easier for the city to expand elsewhere without the need to build a bridge.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



thehustler posted:

That sounds useful, but what about my second complaint, namely that any city will just grow on it's own if you let a bus tootle around 5 stations without you having to do anything?

There are patches that only allow towns to grow when supplied with goods.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



I know we've not had the current game "mode" going for long, and I'm very biased as I find it hard to enjoy openttd when I'm not mainly doing passenger lines with cargodist or whatever, but how out when a good patchpack comes out for 1.2 we set the daylength to be massive, get infrastructure sharing going, get a fairly dense map, and just try and make the biggest most all-encompassing network we can manage.

It could be a big project lasting a few days to about a month I guess, and provided it didn't lag to poo poo I think it'd look totally awesome by the end.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



piratepilates posted:

That project would honestly probably only take a day or so unless you go with one of the huge extra sized maps that would lag us all to hell, still Chilli's patchpack is almost at a release based off a version near 1.2 and poo poo cargodist makes passenger a lot more fun.

Yeah, after you've played with carodist passengers on normal mode just seems pointless. I'm not sure it would only take a day though - there's more to building a good(ish) network than just building the massive straight mainlines that freight needs. Sure, you might get the arteries done quickly, but connecting up each and every town and providing light rail networks in them would take a bit longer. Maybe you're right though. Actually, come to think of it, didn't we do something like this before where everyone claimed a town? I seem to remember that was pretty sparse though, so there weren't too many places to claim.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



basically i just want to watch tiny little branch lines form off massive mainlines and then follow tiny little steam trains on them. is that too much to ask. really.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



JerikTelorian posted:

Hey where the hell did my company go? I was all over the island in the southeast corner. It just disappeared.

Assuming the game hasn't restarted, your routes probably became unprofitable, perhaps because an industry disappeared, and your company went bust.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



less than three posted:

To whoever I just kicked from the server:

I did it because it's midnight and there were surprisingly someone (though just you) online. I was spectating to see if you were alive or not, but no response and from watching your company you hadn't moved the screen or anything in 15 minutes, staring at unfinished track.

Idling in the server means time goes by and then when people wake up it's like the year 2000 and nobody's had the chance to do anything.

tl;dr PSA: I understand we all have needs to idle and do nothing to rack up some expansion cash (especially at the start of the game.) but please do it reasonably. It's annoying to lose 1/4 of the game or more with nobody playing but someone left their game running during the night.

They probably fell asleep cos the current map is so boring and sparse. Could we get a new map with more than like 5 cities please

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Ignoranus posted:

Yeah, I figured it would slowly collapse. I really don't know quite what I'm doing wrong - no matter what, I seem to always end up with a company that just dies a little bit at a time. I'm going to go with the assumption that it's because of the individual locomotives I choose - help me, what should I be looking for in a train?

There's something about 2cc that makes choosing locomotives very difficult - I think it's because they're an essentially random selection from different countries so tend to vary wildly in power, speed and cost across time. For most, it seems like you just need to have a look at the last few introduced and see what suits your traffic.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Hello Meow posted:

I remember trying this game at least 4 times over the past 6 years or so and never getting a hold of it.

Given how I am able to grasp every other game ever, I figure this might be the time I finally get it.
I downloaded the OpenTTD stuff and all the resources there and I'm giving it a shot.
I'm playing on Mac, too. Anything I need to know about that? Or any tips about the game in specific to avoid anything that might be considered a newbie mistake?

Turn on "show reserved paths" or whatever it's called in advanced settings - it shows you where trains are trying to go and is really helpful when using path signals.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Hello Meow posted:

Show reserved tracks? Got it.
(Good lord, there are a lot of options.)

Yep, that should help you a lot with the signals. And yes, there are - they should really have a consolidation at some point, I always end up trawling through every submenu only to change about 5 options whose location I always forget.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Apex Rogers posted:

For passenger trains, I normally just do a timetable based thing and hold the train at each location for 5-6 days. Is there a better strategy? I'm thinking for longer-distance hauls where the cities might not be that huge yet, maybe it's best to set a longer stay so that the stations get more coverage without having to send a million trains.

Depending on what you're wanting to achieve with timetables, the "automate" button is pretty handy - it ensures all your trains are evenly spread across your route. Obviously this means you lose fine-tuning of the timetable, but I find that that tends to be far too much work for all but the smallest of routes.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Dunno-Lars posted:

Ahh, the server is really laggy. I love the company that have 128 boats though. Looks like you could walk between the cities on top of all those hovercrafts. Made me smile


These two facts might be related...

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



FISHMANPET posted:

Is there some trick to getting a passenger rail line with multiple stops to work? I've got a vac train line with two endpoints, and 4 stops in between. It doesn't look like passengers are boarding the correct train. When it pulls into one endpoint, there are 650 passengers waiting to go to the other endpoint, but they don't get on that train. They just get fed up until they turn into "any destination" passengers.
E: Ok, maybe it is working? I just checked that station and it's empty, so I guess they got on some train. Do I have to specify each stop along the way, or can I just set up the orders to go between endpoints and turn off the non-stop order?

Cargodist orders must be non-stop and include every station otherwise the pathing system doesn't work. Also, if you've added a new stop on a line, this might bugger up your passenger figures for a while as passengers get on a train based on what the first stop is rather than where it's going, I think. Both of these problems are solved with YACD (but it's much harder.)

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Node posted:

I've been playing this game since it was released on DOS, but there are some quick with OpenTTD I don't quite get. With "smooth economy" on, I can't seem to get any producers making high quantity of goods. Farms, forests, and the like, are constantly closing or have terrible production, like 6 items of livestock and 12 tonnes of grain from a farm.

How do I stop that from happening? I can't really maintain a massive train empire of dozens of farms feeding one factory, because the farms are really lovely and those trains can't even make profit in a year.

I don't know if I'm repeating what you already know, but the best way of ensuring the production of a factory increases is to always have a train ready to load stock lying in the platform. I don't see how you're not making a profit though - even on low-production farms, one train taking on full loads and going a reasonable distance should pretty much always be able to make a profit. Do you use incredibly expensive locomotives, or something like that?

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Passenger networks are a lot more fun with a cargo destinations patch, obviously. Freight seems dull by comparison when you've got one of those.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



That looks awesome! How's playing with NuTracks? I've never used it but I always think it would just be an annoyance. I guess it adds another dimension to network design?

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Zeether posted:

I finally figured out how to do signals, but I can't figure out why my trains keep entering and exiting the depots sometimes. Is it some weird thing with the routing system or is my block set up wrong?

They often do that if they need to turn around, or when your layouts are overly complex and it seems like a reasonable thing to do cos all other paths are blocked. Post a layout on which it keeps happening and we'll have fun telling you how to make it better

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



less than three posted:

Okay, let's Go Hog Wild!

Here is the latest version of the custom code, you'll need it and the associated GRFs to play.

Windows x64

Windows x32

Mac OSX

ord.nekonex.com / lljk as usual.

NewStations seems to have been updated - could you update the version on the server or link/host the old version somewhere? http://www.ttdpatch.de/download.html

edit: oops was playing on the linux version, didn't realise everything was in the zips

Jonnty fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2013 around 00:09

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Zeether posted:

I recently tried starting a coal service and not only did I waste a ton of money doing it but my company ran into the red:



Is this because the Japanese train pack has different prices or is this just me sucking at making a good coal route?

You want to do it over a heftier distance than that with more and longer trains. Ideally, you should always have one train waiting in the station at any one time as this increases output of the adjacent industry. I don't know about the GRF you're using though, perhaps it is quite pricey. Do keep an eye on running costs when selecting a locomotive and make sure you're using one suitable to the load you're carrying - coal wants a fairly good tractive effort but doesn't really need that much speed (especially if you've got wagon speed limits going on.)

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



You'll also want to learn about path signals if you haven't already - the best way to do this is turn on the "show reserved paths" option in advanced settings then play around with them for a bit until you understand what's going on.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



kingturnip posted:

I'd probably use Path signals, because any train entering or exiting a platform - and they'll move slowly with the sharp turns - is going to prevent any other train from entering the complex.
Better would be to set it up something like:


If the exit signal is red, a train leaving from a platform will block access to all platforms to the right of it unnecessarily. The exit signal should be a train's length away from the last point of potential conflict to avoid this happening. The cost to this is slightly reduced throughput, which can be mitigated with an extra exit lane or two - if that doesn't sort it, you probably want to be doing crazy throats with tunnels and poo poo anyway.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



kingturnip posted:

Something like this, you mean? (I missed a couple of signals, but you get the idea).


I'd certainly never claim to be great at OpenTTD, but I've rarely had trouble with a setup like that.
And when I do, and it happens regularly, it's a sign I should probably try converting the station to RoRo.

Yeah, I do the same thing but with tunnels, and yeah, it's probably the best thing you can manage without a RoRo or other crazy stuff.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



YF19pilot posted:

Something that's always been bugging me, when I start out and am making a coal-powerplant "money maker", is it better to have the train wait for a full load, or just take whatever is available? Sometimes when I'm starting out the coal mines don't put out a lot, and the trains end up sitting there, even if I do something goofy like a 3-car coal train.

I finally tried the passenger airline money-maker, and wow. I don't think I could build enough airplanes. Is one or two appropriate or should I build more to try to keep up with the demand of 1500 passengers and 700 bags of mail?

Full load is the received wisdom - it helps push up production and cargo transported.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



FISHMANPET posted:

That doesn't spread the trains out, it just puts them all on a schedule so it takes the same amount of time to do each run.

Automated timetables were great because you could just throw in however many trains you wanted and it would automatically space them out. I can't really play passenger routes without it.

I'm totally with you there. Like cargodist, I can't remember how passenger routes were fun without it.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Drone posted:

Maybe I'm just thick/sleep-deprived but I still can't figure out how path signals actually work after reading the OpenTTD wiki (which seems to be purposefully dense). Is anyone able to break it down in some Path Signals For Dummies, a la the pre-signal cartoons posted in the OP?

I determined that the failure of Tyrell Corporation was mostly do to me not having any idea whatsoever how path signals are supposed to work, so in the end they jammed up real nice.

Turn on "Show reserved paths" in the advanced settings menu if you haven't already. Most importantly though, a train stopped at any of your path signals should never block the path of another train unnecessarily, as this is how the worst lockups happen. Essentially this boils down to deciding a maximum train length for your network, and counting on that many squares from any possible conflict point and placing the last signal there. You'll realise there's exceptions to this with a bit of trial and error - for example, it might be acceptable to allow mainline traffic to block branch line traffic as it's probably not going to be for very long and avoids a signal spacing capacity bottleneck on the main line - but for now follow the "safe waiting area" principle and the problems will start to go away.

Finally, it's best to think of path signals as always one-way, in the sense that they'll only stop trains coming from a single direction. However, the one without the little sign on it will allow trains to pass in the opposite direction (although they incur a slight pathfinder penalty, which is often irrelevant or what you want.) The latter type are useful at stations.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Drone posted:

This rules, thank you. So what are the differences between your normal path signal and the one with the little white and red bar underneath it? I took that to mean it was analogous to a pre-signal entry but I guess I'm way wrong on that.

The normal one only stops trains in one direction, but trains can reserve paths "through" it the other way as if it wasn't there. The other one is one-way only - read the little bar as a "no entry" sign pointing in the other direction.

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



ChubbyPitbull posted:

Speaking of main lines, what are some strategies for setting up a multi track line? Most of the time what I end up doing (if I can) is having specific "lanes" of the rail main lines restricted to specific tracks in the loading/unloading stations with no cross over between lines, and just keep the train count on each lane even manually as best I can. Whenever I've allowed crossovers between mainlines to go around breakdowns or backups (I've been playing on a server with friends that has breakdowns enabled), often incoming trains get delayed waiting for other trains to switch lanes, and it ends up being less efficient somehow. Especially when trains all dumbly switch to the same lane and oversaturate a section preceding the next crossover.

There's some crazy load balancers on the wikis:

http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Balancing
http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_signalling_examples

and if you google I think there's been a lot talked about it on the forums. However my approach is always to pretty haphazard about it or just use traffic segregation really.

Jonnty fucked around with this message at Aug 24, 2013 around 20:20

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Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!



Fintilgin posted:

I don't want to sound all crabby, but I'm curious if there are any mods that change or remove how station approval works. It just seems so weird and gamey.



Like I set up a long distance coal run as suggested, but the station supplying the coal still get all pouty, "You never visit, I'm cutting coal production way down! "

So I set up a line running coal to a power plant a dozen or two squares away with a single car and my visit rate goes way up. "I love that I see so much of you! I'm quadrupling coal production!!!"



Seems like I'm either doing something wrong or I actually just need to spend a ton of time making sure each station feels ~loved~ enough.


Also, does anything in the background really affect the game's speed? I haven't changed anything that I can tell, but after reloading that scenario above today, it's probably running at least 4x faster then it was yesterday.

You need to have one train in the station at all times - set the order to be Full Load and make sure you have enough trains to have at least one filling up at all times. Make sure "improved loading algorithm" setting is on too. For long runs, if you don't have enough money to do this straight off, you definitely should by the time you've transported a few trainloads, so it's not too much of a burden.

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