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Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Mishaco posted:

Just curious and not exactly disagreeing with you; but why doesn't the M9 make a particularly good combat pistol? It passed all the indurance trials; in fact it passed the original XM9 trials and the XM10 trials and even passed the retrials which lead to the M92F to M92FS upgrade. Yes it did have a critical fault but that was corrected early on and seems to have done the job. Furthermore, honestly, pistols are not major players on most battlefields today.

Ah this question, it opens up a gigantic can of worms in the military community that almost always develops into retarded arguments about stopping power. The real problem is the M9 has been shoehorned into roles that a PDW like a HK MP7 or FN P90 are more suited for and well it performs in those roles poorly. There is nothing inherently wrong with the M9 design but it is getting a little aged and if it gets replaced then it will take less than 60 days for a litany of complaints from soldiers about how lovely the XM-whatever that replaces the M9 is and how they should have never switched. Basically what happened when the M9 replaced the M1911.

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Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Mishaco posted:

I can understand about trying to make a pistol fit into a role it was never meant for. Because tehre is no real SMG any longer you go from an M4 carbine all the way down to an M9 pistol. I know what you are saying about the M9 getting a bit aged..after all its 30 years old. That said, in 1941, no one was thinking of replacing the M1911A1. In fact, most of those people who disdain the M9, would prefer to go back to the M1911 which is just crazy. I am sorry, but a stock milspec M1911 just isn't that great today and has several disadvantages. Americans always seem to keep wanting bigger bullets: 5.56mm vs 7.62mm and .45 cal vs 9mm. Hell, when it first came out, 7.62mm NATO was critized for not being as good as .30-06.

It would be interesting to know more about how other modern militaries feel about their service sidearms.

British troops I talked to hated their Powers but loved their P226's.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


thermobollocks posted:

Checkmate GI surplus mags also suck rear end.

Ftfy


Any malfunctions i had with a beretta were with those lovely mags.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Carbohydrates posted:

tiebreaker: checkmate surplus mags run fine in my gun and have never malfunctioned in any way!

2:1 I lose, another internet argument failure.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


thermobollocks posted:

Realtalk: unless they were new (in which case, ), you could've gotten some that were beaten out of spec.

When I was in the army if i got issued checkmates, the mag's were....unreliable. But if I can get my hands on some of the other brands(looked for the thick mag floorplate) I never had a problem with them.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


HappyCapybaraFamily posted:



Maybe I am a dumb, but I did not think 92FSs could be cocked and locked.



I didn't think they could either

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


infrared35 posted:

Right-handed gamer, no less.

Correct-handed

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


infrared35 posted:

Because on the DAO guns the hammer falls forward with the slide. I would imagine if it was just a free-moving firing pin, that the hammer following the slide home might set off a round. And then maybe another. And another. And maybe you've emptied a 15-round mag of .22 LR with one trigger pull. Or one press of the slide release.

That. Sounds. Illegal AWESOME

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Slappy Moose posted:

This is all awesome information. I had to look up some of the terms you used (hurr durr pistuls), but it's very good to know I could get one for 350 or 400 easily, since my local gunstore wants like 600 for their used ones.

Also if I was going to get a 22 pistol it would be a revolver. Just too much cowboy fun, without the expense of .40 or .38 or whatever.


1. I don't really understand this fully since I've never shot one, so I'll be sure to try and test one out before I ever buy it.

2. This doesn't really bother me. I don't have particularly huge hands (bigger than most people, I guess) but I've held 92s and it definitely felt comfortable.

3. I'm not too worried about night sights. It would mostly be a range pistol, and I'm used to firing blued iron sights.

4. I don't really understand this part either. Again, I'll just have to shoot it and decide for myself.

5. I don't care about size. I'm not planning on carrying (at least not for a while) so this isn't much of a problem.


1 and 4 are related so I'll take a stab at explaining them for you.


in a SA/DA OR DA/SA pistol there are two modes of the trigger. When the hammer is forward and down it is in double action mode which in a 92 actually pushes the trigger as far away from the grip as possible creating a long and heavy pull that is cocking(moving the hammer back and up from the firing pin striker) until the trigger "breaks" which releases the hammer allowing it to fall forward/down impacting the striker which ignites the primer and fires the round. When the slide recoils backward it recocks the hammer leaving it back and up, reseting the trigger closer to the grip and only requiring a short light pull(SA) as opposed to a long heavy one with each subsequent pull of the trigger. The safety/decocker in the 92F/92FS rotates the striker 90 degrees up while releasing the hammer without pulling the trigger so that it falls down/forward without firing. At this point the hammer can fall as many times as your heart desires and the pistol will not fire unless the safety lever is disengaged. On a 92G the Decocking lever merely decocks the hammer but if you pull the trigger the weapon will still fire.





Clear as mud?

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


It looks like a Benelli had sex with a CX4


It is awesome.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


IuniusBrutus posted:

DAO too. Fuuuuuuck summit, why does it have to be in .40?

I'd love a 9mm version of that

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Mad Dragon posted:

Hey, up yours with that mutant poo poo! His left-handedness is proof of his superiority.

There is nothing superior about being wrong handed.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Also in Beretta news: I convinced another goon that the 92FS is indeed awesome!

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Kommienzuspadt posted:

I know. By my count a total of 60 bucks have been spent on me. That's a bag of weed somebody could be smoking instead. drat.

Anyway, what don't you like about the nano?

I think you're in the middle of a moderator dick waiving contest

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


IuniusBrutus posted:

It seems every M9 complaint goes back to either slide cracks, locking block failures, or magazine issues.

Only one of those is a real issue, and it's the military's own goddamn fault.

I'm guessing you're referring to the locking block failures?

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


IuniusBrutus posted:

Well, magazines...AFAIK they still are using Checkmate magazines which are pretty ehhh compared to Beretta/Mec-Gar.

Only reason I mentioned the locking block is I saw one of them fail on the range once. But ya the checkmate magazines were poo poo, I always looked for the mag's with the thick magazine buttplates.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Itchy Itchiford posted:

Oh hey, Beretta thread! I now have one of these thanks to IR35. It's a 92G that I'm 99.9% sure is an ex-cop gun. It's got 05 dated night sights and quite a bit of wear but I'm pretty happy with it.



Get a set of stock grips too unless finger grooves are you thing.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


http://www.berettausa.com/products/beretta-92fs/96-picatinny-rail-system/

Will this mount on a Centurion and/or is it crap?

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Operating Rod posted:

Surefire's MR11 will apparently fit on a Centurion and is supposed to be pretty good, a lot of Beretta forums guys use it.

Don't know about the OEM.

Oem costs half as much so i hope it fits on a centurion frame.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Itchy Itchiford posted:

Where's the cheapest place to get some factory 92fs grips? Used and worn is fine. What about grip screws? I pulled those ugly hogues off for a deep clean and the hex heads on it were completely hosed.

Brownells carries the grip screws both slot and hex.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Action-Bastard posted:

Ok sorry in advance if this is a dumb baby question... But I was about to order a Px4 from Bud's when I noticed it was a D-type, decided to look that up and I'm finding out that it basically has no safety as far as I can tell. As this would be my first pistol that kinda worries me, I like safeties on guns I'm not familiar with. Like I said maybe I'm being a baby, is there actually a safety feature to the D type or should I find something else?

As long as your finger isn't touching the trigger it isn't going to magically go off

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Action-Bastard posted:

Thanks for the advice everyone, yeah I'll have to give this some more thought. I posted that after being up all night following a stressful night at work so I think my head was up my rear end a little. Thing is I'm buying this for work (I work in Security) So I'll be carrying it on me 8-12 hours a day. Also after reading about DAO, it sounds like it might be weird.

I've already shot a Px4 but it was a friends who almost never goes shooting, also it was in .40sw. I'm in Oregon though just fyi, if someone wanted to take me shooting locally I'd be happy to tag along.

DAO is awesome

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it



It's neat but how is it $2000 neat?

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


infrared35 posted:

Exactly. If it was half that, I'd be pretty tempted.

I was hoping you would sperg on that model a bit.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


infrared35 posted:

I don't really know that much about it other than it's an SAO with a frame safety, a steel frame, and a Brigadier slide. It's basically the ultimate competition Beretta.

Thank you, now I want one and had never knew something like that existed.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Action-Bastard posted:

Think I might have a problem with my 92fs. Seems as though the double action on the trigger doesn't want to work anymore. The trigger wont reset so it wont fire unless the hammer is already back. Made sure the safety was off as well. I just discovered this while running some drills with dummy rounds, haven't shot live ammo through it recently. I have however disassembled the slide recently for cleaning so maybe I put something back together incorrectly?

Anyone have an idea what may have caused this and how I might fix it?

scrub inside the magwell or take the grips off recently?

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Action-Bastard posted:

Yeah taking it apart and looking at it again I think something isn't catching in there... but no I didn't take off the grips or "scrub" inside the magwell. I did rub some patches around with lube and cleaner but nothing I would describe as "scrubing" I worried I may have over lubed it in some parts (it's my first handgun).




does the circled part move with the trigger pull?

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it



your trigger bar spring is broken or missing.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/299785/wolff-trigger-bar-spring-beretta-92-96-full-size-and-compacts-centurion-40-s-and-w-factory-design


Take your right grip panel off, it's under there.

Flikken fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Apr 11, 2013

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Action-Bastard posted:

Awesome! Is that something I can fix myself or should I give a gunsmith a call?

I just popped mine out and back in, in under a minute, so no.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Action-Bastard posted:

Edit: Ok I played with it a bit more and it worked for two trigger pulls then went back to not working... So I'm guessing its not missing just broken or something like that.

Edit2: Ok I think I found a youtube video on it so I think I'm set. Thanks for the help!

I usually ran into that when some airman or soldier got a bit overzealous on cleaning by either taking the grip panels off or using a brush on the inside of the magwell. It's kind of common.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Kommienzuspadt posted:

I don't get it. Why don't all berettas have that awesome safety?

I want to blame the Department of Defense, I don't know if it is their fault but I still want to blame them.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


iyaayas01 posted:

Hey Beretta thread, just wanted to pop in to say that I qual'd today and clapped out M9s are some of the worst guns on the face of the planet. Think every negative adjective you can think of to describe a trigger, and that basically describes the trigger on that particular gun.

Like seriously someone send me a 92D or something to redeem Berettas for me because everything about the M9 is awful (except for the hard use finish wear, that was pretty cool I guess.)

Just saying that CATM student M9's are easily the worst M9's I've used in the US military. Don't judge that weapon by them. Clapped out doesn't even begin to describe them.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


iyaayas01 posted:

I wasn't shooting a CATM weapon, since I'm deploying soon I drew the weapon I'm deploying with from LRS and shot with that so the CATM dudes could do the pre-deployment inspection on it while I was there (which basically consisted of some SrA going "yup, that sure is a gun" and then writing the serial down. I don't think he even did a function check.)

It was still pretty clapped out but yeah, wasn't nearly as bad as some of the student guns. A couple were literally falling apart.

before i deployed in the army we sent our weapons to the depot and they swapped in nearly all new springs. made a world of difference. The air force doesn't do that and CATM is lazy.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


DakianDelomast posted:

Could the two of you stop talking about DAO Berettas please?

Because I am itching for a 92D Centurion.

I see those pop up on Gunbroker far more often than the full sized ones.

Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Protons posted:

Please say I'm not the only one who has done this. I was cleaning my M9 when I forgot to reengage the slide lock lever, I sent the slide forward, and sent the slide across my room. I feel like a pretty big idiot.

I cleaned my issued weapon before turning it in, and instead of clearing it at the clearing barrel I left the slide locked back and handed it to the armorer. He inspected the chamber and released the slide, next thing he knows the spring and guide rod are flying past his face with the frame in his hand. Only reason PFC Flikken didn't get smoked right then and there is I had a PT test 15 minutes from then.

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Flikken
Oct 22, 2009

10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it


Neo Mara posted:

Something stupid like buy it and drop a .357 barrel in?

I want to do this but I don't have the funds.

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