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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Beretta DAOs interest me greatly.

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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Chemystery posted:

All of your above points are valid and well taken. I can not dispute the M9's reliability and will say that the 92FS represents a solid pistol all around. Whoever states that the platform is lacking in any way is failing to recognize the solid service record the M9 has built and continues to build. However, the open slide design should be done away with; it might help balance the pistol perhaps and maybe add to reliability (instead of leaving the locking block lugs exposed to environmental elements).

Furthermore, and this is not a fault of the 92FS at all, the 124 gr. FMJ NATO loading is perhaps the worst loading for a 9mm service pistol.

I love the 92FS. I own one myself. They are accurate firearms. They are also, because of the open slide...very aesthetically pleasing which gives it a few points in my highly unscientific reasoning. As a police pistol, it is an excellent choice. As a combat handgun, it has disadvantages related and unrelated to its mechanical design.

The big complaint with the US military is that overhand manipulation of the slide can lead to activation of the safety and/or decocker, which is very undesirable. That and the problems with the M9 slide failures still do happen - albeit uncommonly - and it did not make a good impression. If they can make a DAO version of the 92A1 I think they would have a strong shot at the contract, though, my guess is s&w will take tihs one.

What is wrong with 124gr FMJ NATO vs any other possible 9mm load for military use? Expanding ammunition is out, keep in mind.... 124gr NATO is loaded to +P pressures I believe, i think with a muzzle velocity of something like 1200-1250fps? I can't think of a better 9mm load for military use myself. To make it ideal would just involve popping a Speer Gold Dot bullet in there instead of ball but that's not on the table.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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I find the overhanded manipulation to be a lot easier on emergency reloads (slide locked back) as i can transition more seamlessly from the mag insertion to manipulating the slide. Using thumb + index finger means i have to push out to the left, then put my support hand back on the grip, then pull the gun out and push out again to put my front sight on target.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Do consider how long your fingers are , though. I have smaller hands and it was hard for me to deal with the long DA pull on berettas, which is why I prefer Glocks and 1911s.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Commodore 64 posted:

Well I went to go try out a XDM and fell in love with the 92FS instead. Just picking it up made me want it.

So, as I've been looking for a good used one; I found this one for sale/auction. I know Beretta made a small batch of combo 9mm/.40 92's and this one looks like a nice package. However, I know nothing about the going rate of the combo 92's. Is this a good deal or is this too much?

VVVVVVVVV - Good point. New those go for around $2-300.

Also gently caress .40. It really doesn't do you much good except add more ammo to buy. Find an original 9mm.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Butch Cassidy posted:

Someone really needs to shoot a 96. It tames the Short & Weak into a gentle kitten, purring in your hands.

It's still stupid

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Butch Cassidy posted:

Can we at least agree that Beretta is awesome over a glass of somewhat palatable wine with a goon on the label?



They are selling goon wine?!?!?!

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Butch Cassidy posted:

I have no idea, I just bought this sangiovese because the guy on the label very much looks to be a goon:



They are selling goon beer kits, however:

http://craftabrew.com/

And offer a goon discount last I heard.

He looks so happy

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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hangedman posted:

Thought you guys might like this.

The very first runs of the Beretta 92 were... different.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=259067502

WHY DID THEY SWITCH FROM FRAME TO SLIDE MOUNTED SAFETIES?!?!?!

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Heel mag release? Dammit.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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HappyCapybaraFamily posted:

Well, I scrubbed it out with a brass brush just now, and it's as shiny as I can get it. In any case, I did a little test with some fired cases I found lying around the house. The steel cases from today will not fit into the chamber if I drop them in. I found a couple of fired brass cases, and they drop right in.

Guess that means I have 459 rounds of ammo I can't shoot

Related: is it safe to keep 59 rounds of loose ammo rolling around in a cardboard box?

edit: 459_rounds_of_sad.jpg



You only had a couple FTEs dawg. Its fine for practice ammo don't sweat it.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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HappyCapybaraFamily posted:

This is two FTEs in 41 rounds, and this is after three FTEs in 100 rounds of TulAmmo previously. Five of the same kind of failure in fewer than 150 rounds seems a bit high of a rate to me.

Anyway, should I just suck it up and bring my brass dowels with me to every range trip?

Oh sorry I totally misread your post. 5 in 150 is pretty bad. That said I'd still shoot it just maybe not for something like IDPA where I dont want to be clearing stoppages if I can help it. Still fine to plink with or whatever.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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infrared35 posted:

Maybe the springs just need to be replaced in them. Are the mag followers particularly dirty or anything? Have you taken the mags apart to see if they're clean inside?

I would bet a buffalo nickel that it's a mag issue. I've had glock mags so clapped out they make my G19 jam. Unpossible!

Seriously though most surplus mags are garbage and yours probably need replacing. Does Beretta offer a mag refurbishing service? I know Glock will replace worn or nonfunctional magazines free of charge if you send them in, I wonder if Beretta does the same thing.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Risky posted:

Some awesome guy turned his beretta into the one from resident evil.

http://kotaku.com/5873038/this-guy-modded-a-real-gun

man that guy is a retard.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Slappy Moose posted:

So, I want to get a pistol when I turn 21 in a few months. I really, really want to get a Beretta (some kind of 9mm, probably 92 model) because I have loved the look of them since I first saw Die Hard and played Max Payne. The ammo is cheap, they are supposed to be sturdy as a rock, they can hold 15 rounds in a mag, and oh my god did I mention that they are so gorgeous?

I have never fired one, because I don't know anyone who owns one and I've never seen one at the range. I've been warned that some people don't like to shoot them, why is that? If I were to buy one used, what kind of price should I expect? 550 for one in good quality? Is there anything I should check for when I inspect a potential purchase? What models might I like (besides 92FS)?


Why you might not like them -

1. (many) models have slide mounted safeties/decockers, which I think is a pain in the rear end and gets in the way of what, to me, is more efficient operation, in an economics of motion sense.

2. Heavy and long rear end DA trigger. Hope you have large hands or at least a long, strong index finger.

3. On the model 92s the front sight post is part of the slide and is just a steel post, so installing night sights involves sending it to a smith to have them drilled and a tritium tube somehow affixed in.This is not the case of the M9A1 models that are out there now, which have a dovetail that you use to install tritium night sights.

4. They are SA/DA guns which takes the out of the run for me because I don't like pulling the trigger of my pistol to feel different between shots, for any reason. Some people don't think it's a big deal. YMMV.

5. Too large to carry concealed unless you are a larger dude or regularly wear thick jackets.

Honestly if literally your only plans is to literally take it to the range, punch holes in paper, and leave, then it's perfectly fine. I would recommend a used police model as they are cheaper and can be had for 350-400 or so.

However if you want to carry it/use it for home defense/shoot any of the action pistol sports with it (IDPA/IPSC) then maybe consider something else. That isn't to say that you CAN'T do any of those things with the Beretta, but there are parts about its design (particularly the old 92s, not so much the M9A1) that do not lend itself to doing these things particularly well. Think about these things before you are sold on it.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Slappy Moose posted:


1. I don't really understand this fully since I've never shot one, so I'll be sure to try and test one out before I ever buy it.

2. This doesn't really bother me. I don't have particularly huge hands (bigger than most people, I guess) but I've held 92s and it definitely felt comfortable.

3. I'm not too worried about night sights. It would mostly be a range pistol, and I'm used to firing blued iron sights.

4. I don't really understand this part either. Again, I'll just have to shoot it and decide for myself.

5. I don't care about size. I'm not planning on carrying (at least not for a while) so this isn't much of a problem.

Absolutely valid points, I don't mean to actually tell you NOT to buy a Beretta, but just to give you a counter argument.

Definitely put a few rounds through one if you can. It's also hard to appreciate what you might like and dislike in your guns. The good news is that, especially if you buy used, you can usually put a gun on consignment and basically trade up or down with pretty minimal loss (relatively speaking). So if you really decide you want night sights in the future for whatever reason you can always flip the beretta for a M9A1, or another gun entirely. They are by no means bad pistols.

Also, re: #2, keep in mind that just being able to reach the trigger doesn't mean you can pull all 12+ lbs or whatever of it to the rear smooth enough to keep your sights aligned. You really should shoot one alongside a few other 9mm pistols as a means of comparison before you decide you really want the gun.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Neo Mara posted:

The DA pull on a Beretta is what I credit with making me a great pistol shot. If you can't keep the sights aligned durring the pull, your form is wrong.

I have small hands and cannot get enough finger around the trigger to make pulling it straight backwards without disturbing sight alignment a realistic task.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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GEEKABALL posted:

Does anyone have experience in moving the rear sight on a 92 FS? Googling returns two simple methods- whacking with a brass punch, or using a special sight adjuster tool. I am asking because our 92FS is shooting consistently to the left, and the rear sight appears to be too far left in it's dovetail. I have no problems using the punch if there is little chance I will damage the gun.

Are you 100% sure that it's the gun and not the shooter that is pulling the shots to the left? Sandbag it to be sure before you go whackin at your sights.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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GEEKABALL posted:

I'd say 90% sure. Two shooters (admittedly amateur plinkers) at 50 ft. range with consistently same results, impact at least 12 inches left of aim. I will definitely take it to the 20 ft. range and use sandbags before making any final decision to adjust the sight.

Well, I've been looking for an excuse to pick up a set of brass punches, so if I determine that the sight does need adjustment I will probably try to do it myself first. I was wondering if anyone would bring up the official "Beretta Sight Adjustable Tool for 92/96 Series" http://www.berettausa.com/products/rear-sight-adjustable-tool-for-92/96/default.aspx, and whether it was worth the price.
Thanks guys.

Sand bag it at 5, 15, and 25 yards to be sure. If you get a consistent increase in the leftwards offset on target then yeah fix that ish up.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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GEEKABALL posted:

This is my plan.

I am kind of aware of this, from mega-lurking TFR. Won't shooting from my sandbags eliminate this rotation, or should I still switch hands? I may also ask a friend who is much more experienced with pistols to come along on the range trip. I consider myself a noob with auto-loading pistols, but I am fascinated with them. The wife and I started out with a Ruger Mark III, and are just now starting to shoot 9 mm. guns with an eye toward improving our marksmanship.

benching it will tell you all you need to know about mechanical accuracy. Shooting SHO and WHO isn't really necessary. It's good for improving your IDPA skillset i guess...

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Butch Cassidy posted:

If carry is an option, the compact. Beretta still makes new magazines for them and the guns still feel great in the hand.

If carry isn't an option, get the full-size. Mags are more plentiful/cheaper.

Get the compact anyway, they're rare as hell.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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GEEKABALL posted:

Excellent advice. Doing this proved the gun sights are spot-on. Now we will work on her fundamentals.


Told ya so :P

Believe me if moving ove my rear sights would make my glocks shoot less to the left id've done it a LONG time ago!

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Dude. That gun loving owns.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Action-Bastard posted:

I'm thinking about getting a Px4 for work rather than go for a 92 model like I've probably mentioned before, but I'm still not sure. The thing is though that I really haven't heard anything about the Px4, good or bad for that matter, beyond the typical anti-beretta rhetoric from some of the rednecks I work with. So I'm wondering if you guys have any opinions or experiences with them.

I've read not-so-favorable things about the Px4 and believe you would be better served with a 92 series.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Action-Bastard posted:

Awesome! Yeah I was definitely going for the 9mm model. I've already had the chance to handle one (but not fire it) and I really like the feel of the grip. This would be my first gun though, the newbie thread did suggest I get some basics down with a .22. So may just buy a Buckmark to gently caress around with at the range and get some idea of how to shoot pistol and then upgrade to the Px4 later.

I support this.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Action-Bastard posted:



No offense, but you always seem to have bad things to say about guns I like. What were these "not-so-favorable things" though?


Edited, for first handgun. Not first gun ever


I forget where exactly I first saw this but it is from Todd Louis Green, firearms instructor & former Beretta LEO/Mil division employee.

quote:

As for the PX4, I've seen too many struggle on the line to have much faith in them. I was working at Beretta when it was being designed and we (the LE/mil team) warned them against using that rotating barrel. It was a disaster in the Cougar and while the PX4 system is improved, it still doesn't work as well as the proven tilt-barrel system.

When the members of Beretta's IDPA/USPSA pistol team were told they had to start using the PX4, most of them quit instead. They quit their paid, sponsored positions rather than shoot the gun. Clue.

Last year I had a handful of Canadian LEOs in a class who are issued the PX4 in .40 S&W. They literally had to bring a mallet with them to the class. A mallet? Yeah, I was confused, too. Then every 300-500 rounds of shooting, their guns would jam shut and they had to use the mallet to get the things apart.

I'm far from a Beretta basher. I'd carry a 92G (or better yet, a 92G Vertec) without losing a moment's sleep. But the PX4 was another misstep from Italy.

I'm not like stalking you to pooh pooh your decisions, but you solicited opinions....

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Operating Rod posted:

I forgot about this last night but Todd Green has a post buried somewhere on pistol-training.com about how CZ 75s are horrible unreliable guns.

His opinion is nothing I would take without salt. I think he's got a ton of experience but sometimes he says stuff that doesn't make any sense.

He doesn't use quite such hyperbole but he reports a class that he had where the 2 CZs in the class both went belly up in significant ways.

I think he knows what he is talking about. He might overreach a little bit when he draws conclusions but he sees thousands upon thousands of guns per year and generally has a better idea of how good a given firearm will be statistically speaking than I do (or most individuals do).

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Operating Rod posted:

He mentions four guns and comes right out and says that CZs have a reputation for poor reliability (what) that he thinks is earned, and that not one CZ he saw in the class coul stand up to significant round counts. Also that "(C) Zed is not your friend." That's as bad review as I've ever seen a shooting pro make.

I'll link what I'm looking at later when I'm not on my phone.

I mean, you don't have to agree with him but he does see a lot of guns. It was based on his experience.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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infrared35 posted:



You make me hanker for a 92D something fierce.

DAO maybe even

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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IuniusBrutus posted:

Someone needs to convince me I need a 92D in my life.

I am an unrepentent Glock Kool-Aid drinker and even I want a 92D.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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iyaayas01 posted:

Cross posting some pictures from the Milsurp thread....









BM-59s are pretty cool.


drat dude. That's awesome.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Umph posted:

Well I bought my first handgun ever today

I went to the range and tried out the compact models from sig/s&w/ruger/springfield/glock/beretta.

And well...




I love the way the px4 9mm fires. I didn't notice any trigger slap or anything, put 2 boxes of ammo through it and MAN it is fun to shoot. I love the action on it once it's fully cocked. And the recoil on it compared to the other models is great.

Any tips? Help me get rid of the buyers remorse. The Springfield and Ruger were close seconds, the Glock was cool but I'm just not comfortable with no active safety. And... the px4 just looks so

Did I do ok? I always have to be different. I went in expecting to buy the glock.''

Any reason you got the subcompact over the compact or fullsize?

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Umph posted:

Mostly as I wanted something I could ccw eventualy but that shot comfortably. Honestly for me it shot nicely even compared to the larger glock and ruger so I didn't see a reason to not buy it sub. I mean I'm sure there's reasons like accuracy(?) but since Ive only owned rifles and shotguns I'm not qualified to say.

Your subcompact is likely just as mechanically accurate as the compact and fullsize. I believe that you shot it well - I shoot my Glock 26 quite well, perhaps better even during slow fire than the 19 and the 17.

sounds like you made the right choice. Enjoy! Do consider buying one of its bigger brothers down the road, however, if you decide you want a bigger gun. I am a big fan of keeping everything "in the family" so to speak. Makes adjusting to a new pistol much easier if it is as close to your carry pistols as possible.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Redleg posted:

Got this as a gift this weekend



I am in love with it

Did a couple rounds of skeet and I am terrible at it, it would appear I need alot more practice.

Very nice! You will have a lot of fun popping clays with that thing. Keep at it, once you get the hang of it skeet is really rewarding.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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What kinda deal we talkin?

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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infrared35 posted:

$450 out the door, and I got them to throw in a large four-pistol case that I'd had my eyes on for a while.

drat. So assuming each magazine is worth ~25bux you got the gun for 275. I think even I would move on something like that.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Butch Cassidy posted:

Dude... Your avatar is a slideshow, today.

In Beretta news: I inadvertently convinced someone not to buy a Nano today. The Nano is mediocre and he was a muzzle-sweepinv idiot, so it is probably for the best.

I know. By my count a total of 60 bucks have been spent on me. That's a bag of weed somebody could be smoking instead. drat.

Anyway, what don't you like about the nano?

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Flikken posted:

I think you're in the middle of a moderator dick waiving contest

I don't know, I think the "penniless hippy" sounds like something skyshark would say to me, except that 1. I haven't bought any of these and 2. i don't think skyshark cares enough to buy me an avatar. Even if they are pretty funny.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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infrared35 posted:

"dick waiving" amuses me unnecessarily.

No dicks necessary here, Sir.

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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Operating Rod posted:


Beretta Forums guys have not been particularly kind to the Nano. Apparently it's picky with ammo and the best bet is to stick with defensive loads? It doesn't seem to do well with WWB/Blazer/whatever, anyway.

Ooh. That is not a good sign.

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