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infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Beretta thread!

Old 8x series vs. new. 1970s production 81 on the left, 1990s production 85F on the right:





The 81 and the 82 are basically the equivalent of the 84 and the 85, however the 81 and 82 are .32 ACP instead of .380. The 81 is a double-stack like the 84, but despite it using a smaller round, it actually holds one less round in the magazine due to feeding issues caused by .32 ACP's semi-rimmed case design. The 82 is a single-stack like the 85.

Some cosmetic differences between the two: The biggest one to me is the recurved trigger guard on the newer models. The finish is also different, with the older guns being blued and the newer ones having the flat black Bruniton finish. There are also some subtler cues, such as the rear of the slide - the older guns are a little sleeker there. The older guns have an exposed notch in the slide for the slide stop, where the newer guns have a hidden notch. And the sights on the newer models are a little more substantial.

The biggest mechanical difference is that the safety on the older guns allows for cocked-and-locked carry, where the safety on the newer guns acts as a decocker, much like on the 92F. Another mechanical difference is that the newer guns have a magazine disconnect safety installed. This is pretty easily removed though - a much easier conversion than on a Browning Hi Power.

More to follow later.

infrared35 fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Sep 5, 2011

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infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Berettas on parade!

On and off over the years I have owned a full-sized Beretta of some kind pretty much continuously. The exact model depended mostly on my whims/budget and what was available at the time. I don't have photos of anything before, say, 2000 or so which is unfortunate because in the early to mid-nineties I had a 92C (13-shot compact) and a 92C Type M (8-shot single stack compact).

More recently I've been a bit more budget-minded so the Berettas I've picked up have mostly been police trade-ins. The first of my "recent" crop of Italian Tomahawks was a trade-in 92F Vertec:





The Vertec is a redesigned F (or G, or D) model with a thinner grip, a flat backstrap, a slightly shorter trigger pull, and an accessory rail. Beretta was aiming for the tactical market and they had some success but just couldn't compete with Glock at that point. If you want tactical but prefer the classic looks of the 92F and yet still want to easily mount a light or laser, there's always the M9A1. If you like the 92F but wish it was a little more spacey, check out the 90-Two.



At any rate, I then picked up a 92FS police trade-in; it was one of the CDNN specials in "poor to fair" condition but it was only $289. I jumped on it. It had a fair amount of holster wear but was mechanically good, and its accuracy was superb. It's one of my happiest purchases ever.





15-round magazine, 15 yards, slow fire:





Chillin' with its Vertec cousin:





CDNN began offering 96G "uppers" for $150 - it was a .40 slide and barrel with night sights, available in either full length or Centurion length (about an inch shorter). And being a G, it was a decocker only instead of a decocker/safety like on a regular F model. I picked one up and ran it on the Vertec for a while. It was flawless and made me realize that a Beretta was one of the few .40 platforms that was actually pleasant to shoot.





All the while, I knew there was a niche to fill in my collection. I really wanted a 96D just like the one I had shot at work. That meant that I couldn't just order any of the $300 96Ds that were flooding the market. No, that would be too easy. I had to have a 96D Brigadier - the one with the heavy duty slide. Then and only then would I be happy. I didn't hold out much hope. They were extremely rare, the vast majority being produced for federal law enforcement contracts and only a handful making it to the open market. I would occasionally see one on gunbroker but the seller was invariably asking $800 or more. But one day, on a whim, I stopped by the Gander Mountain in Marquette, Michigan and checked out their used guns. Sitting right there in a place of honor was a 96D Brigadier, all original, with night sights, three mags, case, manual, and cleaning kit for $499.

I had to have it, but money was tight. I knew that this was a much rarer gun than the two Berettas I already owned and that those two would be easy to replace, so I put the Vertec on the market and it went to a loving goon home. Right about that same time, my father-in-law was expressing an interest in getting a range/home defense gun but he was on a tight budget. I didn't want him to go out and pick up a Hi-Point or something, so I sold him my 92FS with the understanding that I still have visitation rights.







Bucket o' Berettas at work, when the field offices were turning them in to be melted down:





For some reason I just really like smooth double action triggers. There's something about them that really forces me to focus on the front sight, or something. With the Beretta I shot a perfect score on my agency's bullseye course - a 300 out of 300 - when previously the best I had been able to accomplish was 293. I was happy. Content. My Beretta life was full.

And then G43 posted a Beretta 85 for sale in the classifieds thread. He knew I had a soft spot in my heart for the Italian guns, so after protracted negotiations in the language of love (German), I purchased a .380. My wife has had a Beretta 84 for years and while I do like it, I feel that the 13-shot double stack is a little fat to be a handy carry gun. The 85 is a single stack and is considerably slimmer.

85, 84, and 96D:





Once again I was happy. There was a niche to be filled and I hadn't even known it. Having that little .380 made my collection feel complete.

And then my local tactishop had a going out of business sale, and one of the last handguns he had left was a PX4 Storm in 9mm with the Constant Action trigger, which is similar to SIG's DAK system. I thought the PX4s were ugly so I never looked at or handled one before, but on a whim I asked to check this one out. I picked it up and fell in love with it. It is fairly slim for a double stack, it was reasonably light with a good balance, the sights were awesome, and the frame had a nice, grippy texture. The gun pointed very naturally for me and I was immediately drawn to the smooth DAO pull of the CA trigger. He was basically selling it at dealer cost and he threw in a holster, so I said yes.









NOW my collection was complete. I had a 96D, an 85F, and a PX4.

And then Gray Stormy expressed some general dissatisfaction with the 92D that he had. I wanted him to be happy, and I wanted the gun to be happy as well, so I traded him the S&W M&P9 that I rarely used for his DAO eye-talian.







I had given another D gun a good home, and it was a little cheaper to shoot than my Brigadier, plus I wouldn't have to feel bad about putting a lot of wear and tear on the .40 since it's arguably got some collector's value. I was content.

But I had one last itch that had been sitting on the back burner and other mixed metaphors. I wanted one of the 8x-series guns, but in .32 ACP. It just seemed like it would be a heck of a lot of fun. The 81 was my choice, partly because it was probably the only "high capacity" conventional .32 handgun ever made. They were almost impossible to find, however. They had been out of production for a long time and didn't have much of a following partly due to the caliber. But over the last year, the market was suddenly flooded with them. Apparently the Israeli government had a huge stockpile of the things and they were selling them all off. My local fudd shop had one for $289 and it was impossible to say no.





NOW I'm content.



On a side note, they're a little slow to the market but Beretta finally came out with a pocket 9mm - the BU9 "Nano." It's basically a single-stack PX4 subcompact... with a very Glockish-looking trigger.

infrared35 fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Sep 5, 2011

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Gray Stormy posted:

IR35 is the Beretta King. Long live the king!

I have stood upon the shoulders of giants.



Butch Cassidy posted:

gently caress you, gently caress you, gently caress you. I have yet to see one around here in anywhere near that condition for less than $400. gently caress you.

Get one shipped. You can have one in decent condition for less than $400 if you look around gunbroker. And if you really don't care about cosmetic condition, they range all the way down to $199.

The same seller has a ton of them in varying conditions.

Edit: I love the wear on this Beretta 82 but it doesn't come with a mag. Of course, the 81 I linked above doesn't come with a mag either. Though at least you can still get mags for the 81 right from Beretta.

infrared35 fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Sep 5, 2011

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Part of my love for Beretta has to do with their style, and another part is for how smooth their actions are. A third factor is their customer service.

My wife got a really good deal on a used Beretta 84F and while it looked like it was in decent shape, the slide stop notch was so worn out that the gun wouldn't lock open at all. She sent it back to Beretta for a repair estimate, and they shipped it back about a week later and it looked like they had completely cleaned and refurbed the entire gun. It looked brand new. Not only that, but they included a new box, hard case, cleaning kit, and magazine loading tool.

I took a Beretta armorer's course and admired the mechanical design; then I took an armorer's course specifically for the 96D, and the simplicity of the gun impressed me. It wasn't Glock-simple, but it was still an elegant design with very little to go wrong. I also like the fact that they designed the gun so you could run a mainspring with half the weight of the "normal" spring and still have 100% reliability but get an 8-pound DA trigger instead of a 16-pounder.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

That 102 is sweet as hell.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Kommienzuspadt posted:

Beretta DAOs interest me greatly.

They are a thing of beauty. The trigger pull is long, but it's not too heavy and it's very smooth.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Butch Cassidy posted:

DAO you say?



Let's add single-stack to the mix with the Beretta 92D Type M. 8+1 rounds of 9mm in a compact package with a silky-smooth trigger. Someday, I will have money in my pocket when I run across one. So far, I have only been able to drool and dry fire a few times.

drat, that's awesome. Okay, I guess there's still a hole in my collection. I always regretted selling my regular Type M. A D-series would seriously kick rear end.



DJExile posted:

I'll be damned, I have never seen a single stack 9mm Beretta. Are they very common?

There's a reason you don't see them very often. There are very few around.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Packard Goose posted:

Infrared, I remember selling you a P2000 holster for work and I never found out where you work. What do you do to wear ugly as balls standard issue combat boots and handle a bucket o' Berettas?

I work at or perhaps near the border or the functional equivalent thereof. Oh, and I wear swanky Converse side-zip boots now. They're like moon boots.

Have a photo of a bucket of P2000s.





drat, guess I'm gonna have to win the lottery if I want a D-series Type M.

Edit: I'd kind of like to own a Beretta Cougar as well, maybe an 8045D.

Edit 2: I guess I could probably fake a D Type M by buying a regular Type M, swapping the D-series fire control group into it, and throwing on a D-series Centurion upper. Maybe. At the very least I could do up one of the 13-shot compacts that way.

infrared35 fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Sep 6, 2011

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Packard Goose posted:

What department of the gub'ment? The gun department? I'm looking to get the gently caress out of the US Military, and a job would be cool.

There are two current hiring announcements, both closing on 9/15. One is for southeastern states and one is for southwestern states.



Gray Stormy posted:

Those look an awful lot like my Steyr magazines. I wonder if they would work as a cheaper alternative to Steyr mags?

It's already been addressed, but yeah. No on the compatibility, and no on the price.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

nnnnghhhhgnnngh posted:

If it were in .22 it would be perfection, but oh well, it was free.

You suck.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

IuniusBrutus posted:

How rare is rare, and do they feel as great as I think they would?

They're pretty rare. You can occasionally find a normal DA/SA model on gunbroker or elsewhere. They are sexy as hell and not much bigger than the 85. Though my memory of the Type M is a little hazy, I think the 85 wins out for overall feel. I think the 85 just has a better balance.

Plus, no slide safety.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Is it possible to put an extension tube on the mag, or is it like the 1201 where the tube can't be altered?

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

MazeOfTzeentch posted:

I don't know if anyone makes an extension, but a +1 would definitely not be a bad thing. The end of the mag tube is threaded though, so I imagine extensions are possible.

It may take the same extension as the Benelli Nova, which is apparently threaded the same as the Beretta Extrema.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

I forgot I took this picture. I think it's an interesting comparison.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Naramyth posted:



Five shots of Efficacy 25 vs. nine shots of Efficacy 18.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Bigass Moth posted:

I joined the Beretta club today Beretta 92FS




Last image - is the furthest right magazine a knockoff? It doesn't have the Beretta trademark and has a different bolt on the bottom.

The only wear on the frame is visible in the second picture: the BE in Beretta and the A in USA are both faded. Also the nighsights are dead but who cares.

Seconding the "you didn't say it was a Vertec." Also, the lettering may have been filled in by the previous owner; I've never seen a Vertec with the lettering like that.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Bigass Moth posted:

What do you guys have against Vertecs exactly?

You misunderstand. Vertechood is a bonus.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Bigass Moth posted:

Can you explain why? I'm very happy with my purchase and hopefully it feels as good shooting as it does holding.

It's got a thinner grip, it's got a light rail, and it's got a swappable front sight.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Conservation of Angular Potentiation.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

iyaayas01 posted:

I find it more comfortable/natural to slingshot...maybe I've watched too many action movies or my hands/wrists are just retarded.

Same here. I hate doing the overhand thing, especially with a Beretta.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Bigass Moth posted:

I took my vertec shooting today. Very nice low recoil and good follow up shots. Only negative is that loading the magazine is obnoxiously difficult, by far the hardest mags I've loaded of all the pistols I've fired.

Let me guess - ten-rounders?

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Bigass Moth posted:

Yes, the springs must be made of adamantium.

Do factory 15 round mags fit flush?

They look just like the tens when they're in the gun - they're "flush" and they have that same kind of floor plate. The tens are just pinched in at the sides so you can't fit as many rounds in. If you're in a position to (legally) get some fifteens, the best ones are factory mags (of course) or Mec-Gar or MGS magazines. Both of those are identical to the factory mags but are usually a little cheaper. Sometimes places like CDNN will have good deals on used mags. Just don't be tempted by the $7 Eagle mags unless it's strictly a range gun and you're willing to take chances on whether they actually work or not.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Chemystery posted:

I know IR35 will probably tisk at this but here you go, dude.

I just snagged some 30 rounders, but the 20 rounders and 18 rounders are also tits.

If you live in a 10 rounder only state, ship it in as a rebuild kit

Those are good mags (Mec-Gar and MGS) and the prices aren't bad. If anything's out of stock there, check with Top Gun Supply.

And don't forget to see what CDNN has. And while you're there, check their specials page. Sometimes they'll have free shipping or they'll be throwing in goodies for orders over a certain amount, or they'll give you a magazine pouch for every pair of mags you buy, etc.

As a matter of fact, it just so happens that they have free shipping on Internet orders $50 and up, plus Beretta factory 15-rounders are on sale for $17.99 each.

infrared35 fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Sep 25, 2011

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Packard Goose posted:

Get some tighter gloves that fit your better.

That was just for demonstration purposes. So I wouldn't have to actually pinch my hand in the slide to take a picture.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Packard Goose posted:

Answer your PM!

To contribute, are there any 92FS style frames that are conceal and carry friendly?

Done.

And yeah, there's a 13-shot "compact" and there's the Type M compact which is a single-stack 8-shot.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Bigass Moth posted:

I know about the hammer but not familiar with the D Spring?

The D spring is the hammer spring from a D-series (DAO) gun which dramatically lightens the double-action pull and also lightens the single action pull. I think the double action pull on a normal Beretta is about 15 pounds, but with a D spring it's more like 8 pounds.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Packard Goose posted:

I suppose I should just get a Glock 17 rather than a single stack 8 shot 9mm I would think.

A 17 isn't what I would call CCW "friendly." The weight is good, but it's a fairly large handgun.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

GEEKABALL posted:


The newest addition to my small Beretta collection, a model 84F. I had handled one at the local range, and loved the way it fit my hand, so I picked this one up. The trigger is nice compared to my Arcus, it is so crisp. It is a little beat up, but still a handsome gun.

Yessss. Welcome to the club.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

SadWhaleFamily posted:

though the gun doesn't automatically decock on first round chambering like the 92FS, so you get an SA pull on the first shot.

A 92FS only decocks when you chamber a round if you chamber a round with the safety on.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Nutbladder posted:

I'm looking to drop some cash on a handgun as a gift to myself when I turn 21 in the next few weeks, and I've been eyeing some of Beretta's guns. This thread has done nothing but continue to fuel my interest. As a total know-nothing when it comes to handguns, can anybody here give me a quick rundown on what would make a Beretta desirable compared to say a Glock or 1911? It would be totally awesome to get some input from a place that isn't full of stupid gibbering tits like /k/ is.

Mostly personal preference as to which gun feels better in your hands, which sights you like better, which trigger you like, etc.

I'm not a big 1911 fan simply because every one I've ever owned or fired has been pretty finicky with what ammo it'll run reliably. Yeah, I know the platform wasn't designed with hollow points or semi-wadcutters in mind, and they usually run round-nose bullets fine, but that's not what I'm looking for. I want some versatility without having to shop around for specialized magazines for each type of ammo I have.

I own and shoot Berettas, SIGs, HKs, Glocks, you name it. I like all of them and would feel comfortable using any of them in competition or relying on them for self-defense. But I like the Beretta's balance, they way it fits my hand, the trigger, the sights, and the overall mechanical and aesthetic design.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

DakianDelomast posted:

Oh another thread I can post in.



I must say I really like the lines on Beretta pistols. That combined with my affection toward big guns means it's a much loved addition to my collection. This guy looks like a 92F but then below it, it has an S stamp. Does that mean that the gun was modified to not hurt me post-manufacture?

Only way to know for sure is to take the slide off and see if there's sort of a disc sticking up from the left-side grip that interfaces with a groove under the left edge of the rear of the slide.

Have a crappy photo of a pre-S hammer pin (left) with an S hammer pin (right). You can see the one on the right has more of a disc shape and it protrudes up into the path of the slide.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

IuniusBrutus posted:

Still digging around for a full-size 9mm.

I've shot a 92fs before and really like it, so I've been looking around shops for a used one. Local store just gone one in on consignment - 92D (the DAO one) Centurion with one magazine for $475. Really nice shape. How's the price?

I know DAO = bleh around here, but the trigger seemed ok, just a little heavy. Any way to lighten it up a bit? Also, will the centurion model work in standard size 92 holsters?

The price is a little high; if it came with three mags it'd be better. $400 is probably closer to what I'd want to pay. I'm a big fan of DAO guns, especially the Berettas. The trigger pull should be in the neighborhood of 8 pounds compared to a normal Beretta's DA pull of 15 pounds. If it really doesn't feel any lighter than a 92F's DA pull, then it could be fixed by installing a D spring. If it's already got a D spring and 8 pounds still feels too heavy, then you're stuck. You could go with a lighter spring, but then you risk getting light strikes.

The Centurion should still fit in most full-size Beretta holsters.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

ifire posted:

I want to join the Beretta party too!



I am not at home and that's the only photo I have

Nice. One of those has been on my wish list for a long time, but got pushed back when I picked up a Seecamp.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

I would personally not want to pay over $400 for a used Beretta unless it came with a bunch of mags and a holster or something. Not that they're inherently not worth it or something, but I bought one a couple years back (with night sights) for $319 from CDNN so I have a hard time paying much more than that.





As far as sights, you can send the slide to Trijicon and get them re-lamped for $50.

If you want something completely different, you'd have to buy a Brigadier or Vertec slide which would give you an interchangeable front.

The problem with Berettas is that the police trade-in market varies widely. Last year we were flooded with Centurions. A few years before that we were flooded with D guns. This year I've seen a fair number of Vertecs. Plain Jane 92s are kind of passe on the LE scene so the don't hit the market in large numbers very often any more.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Kommienzuspadt posted:

Heel mag release? Dammit.

Yeah, but not Eurpoean-style. It's still a regular push button, it's just down toward the bottom of the grip. It's really not that bad, even if it does require the use of your support hand to operate it quickly.

And finding mags for it isn't bad either. For some reason, a lot of factory and aftermarket Beretta mags are still cut for the old release.

Edit: Here's a sampler.

Horizontal mag at top: Mec-Gar 20-rounder, no heel mag release cutout

Others, from left:

- Unknown aftermarket 30-rounder - has cutout
- Factory 15-rounder - has cutout
- Factory 11-round .40 mag - no cutout
- Mec-Gar 17-rounder - has cutout
- Factory 10-rounder - has cutout
- Military contract 15-rounder - no cutout

infrared35 fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Nov 4, 2011

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

I really want an ARX 160.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

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Plaster Town Cop

IuniusBrutus posted:

Have you tried running any brass ammo through it yet? If you have issues with that too, you might need an extractor.

Seconding the "try brass ammo" thing. Or thirding, or whatever. I've seen a lot of high round count Berettas and I've never seen one that needed a new extractor or spring. I'm guessing the inelasticity of the steel cases plus the dirtiness of the powder and whatever they coat the casings in plus the weakness of the powder charge in typical cheap, steel-cased ammo is a recipe for extraction and ejection problems.

Wolf is the only ammo that I've seen jam up my Glock 17C and my USPc. Even powderpuff reloads barely strong enough to cycle the action work more reliably.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Naramyth posted:

You have a 17C? WTF man you seriously are a gun library.

Used to have. I sold it when I realized I couldn't use it in IDPA, and it wasn't great for home defense what with the porting.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Butch Cassidy posted:

If I pass up a Beretta 92 Compact with two full-size 15 round 92 mags in excellent internal condition and very carried, but well-loved eternal condition for $375, will I hate myself?

Not only will you hate yourself, WE will hate you. There will be hate aplenty. A parade of hate, if you will.

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infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Butch Cassidy posted:

I'm on a tight budget until Christmas, but I'll see if I can talk him into doing a long-term layaway so I don't miss it.

It's a consignment piece that he is offering me a discount on for being a reliable regular, so he may not be able to hold it that long.

Does it have any 13-round mags?

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