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Toebone
Jul 1, 2002

Start remembering what you hear.

I. M. Gei posted:

If I remember right, the ingredients were for a Goose Island stout. Not sure if that impacts things.

Probably not much hop flavor/aroma in that, so you should be better off than if it was an IPA.

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Scarf
Jun 23, 2005



Working on a California Common recipe for a friend's birthday around Labor Day. I wanted to do a more conventional lager, but wouldn't really have the time to condition it as much as I'd like. I've never done a CC before but everything I've read suggests they're kind of a like a "quick lager" since they ferment a bit warmer and require less conditioning.

Current bill:
8.5 lbs MO
1 lbs Munich 20L
0.5 lbs Crystal 120L
1.0oz Nothern Brewer @ 60min
0.25oz NB @ 30min
0.5oz NB @ flameout
WLP 810 San Francisco Lager (starter size TBD)

I was struggling early on getting the color to-style... Most references I saw called for Crystal 40 or 60 along with some Chocolate, Victory, etc. I really wanted to keep the bill as simple as possible, and I have a hard and fast rule of no more than 5% of the bill being Crystal unless absolutely necessary.

I know the differences in flavor between 40/60L and 120L are pretty different, but I'm thinking about giving it a try as opposed to just going with the 40/60 and adding in some chocolate.

Also, I love the WLP 810 yeast. I use it for my high grav Baltic Porter and always have great results.

Scarf fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2019 around 17:46

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


That looks pretty good, but I might pass on the MO in favor of a pilsner or American 2-row (unless you have piles of MO sitting already). I would skip the chocolate either way. It's probably there for color correction as I've never seen people use more than 2oz in one. C120 will probably be more interesting than 40 or 60 anyway and I'd do Munich or Victory, but not both. So Munich unless it's an English Bitter because everytime I use it lately it takes an extra 2 weeks of conditioning before it tastes good.

Let us know how it turns out.

Scarf
Jun 23, 2005



Jhet posted:

That looks pretty good, but I might pass on the MO in favor of a pilsner or American 2-row (unless you have piles of MO sitting already). I would skip the chocolate either way. It's probably there for color correction as I've never seen people use more than 2oz in one. C120 will probably be more interesting than 40 or 60 anyway and I'd do Munich or Victory, but not both. So Munich unless it's an English Bitter because everytime I use it lately it takes an extra 2 weeks of conditioning before it tastes good.

Let us know how it turns out.

Yeah, MO is my go-to base malt, so I've got a fair bit on hand.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


I've never made a California common, but I'm gonna weigh in anyway, because this is the Internet. I do like the idea of using some Pilsner/MO, especially since we seem to have settled on a recipe using a non-trivial amount of specialty malts like Munich and crystal malt. My first crack at this would probably have been something with an OG around 1.053 using about 78% Pilsner, 14% Munich 10L and 8% Crystal 50L.

That said, if you're going with MO, I think your proportions are a lot more appropriate, although I'd still do a 10L Munich (Weyermann Munich II) and a Crystal in the 40-60L range rather than a dark one. I get that you might want to do a darker crystal to make up for the lack of chocolate for color adjustment, but I don't think I'd want the dark fruit flavors that would come with it.

thotsky fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2019 around 22:17

Scarf
Jun 23, 2005



thotsky posted:

I've never made a California common, but I'm gonna weight in because this is the Internet. I do like the idea of using some Pilsner/MO, especially since we seem to have settled on a recipe using a non-trivial amount of specialty malts like Munich and crystal malt. My first crack at this would probably have been something around 1053 using 78% Pilsner, 14% Munich 10L and 8% Crystal 50L.

That said, if you're going with MO, I think your proportions are a lot more appropriate, although I'd still do 10L Munich (Weyermann Munich II) and a Crystal in the 40-60L range rather than a dark one. I get that you might want to do a darker crystal to make up for the lack of chocolate for color adjustment, but I don't think I'd want the dark fruit flavors that would come with it.

Yeah, the dark fruit/raisin notes are what concern me about the 120... Maybe I'll go for 60 and just say gently caress the SRMs.

It's not like I'm trying to make a clone of anything, or enter it for judgement. I'm just trying to make 5 gals of easy drinking beer for a long cabin trip birthday weekend.


Edit: Again because this is the internet, I'm gonna disagree on classifying Munich as a specialty malt. I like to think of it more as a secondary-base malt. I haven't tried it before, but you CAN do a 100% Munich beer. I do a 50/50 split between Munich and MO as the base malts for my baltic porter recipe. And it's a good 33% for my festbier.

Scarf fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2019 around 22:10

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


Scarf posted:

Edit: Again because this is the internet, I'm gonna disagree on classifying Munich as a specialty malt. I like to think of it more as a secondary-base malt. I haven't tried it before, but you CAN do a 100% Munich beer. I do a 50/50 split between Munich and MO as the base malts for my baltic porter recipe. And it's a good 33% for my festbier.

I don't disagree with your sentiment, although a 20L Munich is pushing it in my opinion; that's more akin to a aromatic malt.

Also, I'm not knocking the MO use, I've seen it used in California Common recipes (usually at around 50% of the base malt). I'm actually wanting to move more towards darker base malts in all my beers; I'm wondering if maybe the prevalence of pilsner/low-color 2row can be explained by its efficiency/high diastatic power rather than actual flavor contribution, but I've not gotten around to trying a side by side with a "crisp" style beer as of yet.

rockcity
Jan 16, 2004


Jo3sh posted:

I am entertaining a fantasy that I will take a road trip to the PNW late this summer - August / September. For the homebrewing portion of the trip, I would be interested in buying good local juice to make cider and perry, and also a fair whack of hops, just because why not?

Any suggestions for farm stands, hop yards, or other places to visit?

Really late reply on this, but Crosby Hop Farms. Email them ahead of time and they will probably be willing to walk you around the whole place and sell you some 1lb bags. The guy there was super friendly when I reached out.

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


Munich and Vienna and things like it have lower diastatic power than 6-row or 2-row, but itís enough to convert itself. Itís lower because itís been taken to a higher temp in malting, so there may not be as much extra to convert other things like wheat. Iíve done 100% Vienna and up to 50/50 pils/Munich a couple times. They turn out great and delicious. More body to them than just Pilsner malt with the same yeast, but thatís also due to slightly higher starting SG.

Darker Munich is pretty great and it is nearing an aromatic, but itís much better than Victory for me.

Also, I keep a pound of midnight wheat on hand for color correction if Iím feeling picky. Anything from an ounce can start changing things pretty well without impacting flavor.

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

rockcity posted:

Crosby Hop Farms.

Cool, thanks for the tip. Still planning / testing ideas for the trip. I have time off the first two weeks of September. No idea whether it whether it will come together or what, but as long as I am dreaming...

I'd still like to know of any good farm stands or cideries that sell juice, especially pear juice, for cider. Yakima and Bend areas are the general targets.

Ne Cede Malis
Aug 30, 2008


Scarf posted:

Yeah, the dark fruit/raisin notes are what concern me about the 120... Maybe I'll go for 60 and just say gently caress the SRMs.

It's not like I'm trying to make a clone of anything, or enter it for judgement. I'm just trying to make 5 gals of easy drinking beer for a long cabin trip birthday weekend.


Edit: Again because this is the internet, I'm gonna disagree on classifying Munich as a specialty malt. I like to think of it more as a secondary-base malt. I haven't tried it before, but you CAN do a 100% Munich beer. I do a 50/50 split between Munich and MO as the base malts for my baltic porter recipe. And it's a good 33% for my festbier.

The last beer I brewed was 90% 2-row, 7% carahell and 3% crystal 60L. It came out orange colored and the caramel flavor is noticeably present. It looks like this:
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByT-HOfl6Mv/

Your recipe looks great though and I'm sure it'll be fine no matter how you go.

Scarf
Jun 23, 2005



Ne Cede Malis posted:

The last beer I brewed was 90% 2-row, 7% carahell and 3% crystal 60L. It came out orange colored and the caramel flavor is noticeably present. It looks like this:
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByT-HOfl6Mv/

Your recipe looks great though and I'm sure it'll be fine no matter how you go.

Oh sweet, good to know. that's pretty much the color I'm looking for!

Went and got the ingredients today. Went with Munich 10L and Crystal 60.

Scarf fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2019 around 03:25

illcendiary
Dec 4, 2005

Damn, this is good coffee.

illcendiary posted:

Thanks everyone, I'll keep an eye on it. I've been brewing for a few years now, but this is my first time using a lager yeast. I'm so used to having ale yeasts with a starter and having most of the fermentation done in the first 2-3 days, this is a bit of new territory for me.

Sure enough, this got down to 1.012 today. Will give it another day of diacetyl rest and then crash it.

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

illcendiary posted:

Sure enough, this got down to 1.012 today. Will give it another day of diacetyl rest and then crash it.

Awesome news!

Scarf
Jun 23, 2005



illcendiary posted:

Sure enough, this got down to 1.012 today. Will give it another day of diacetyl rest and then crash it.

Late to the party on this, but ive also had slow starts and finishes with wlp830, even with a good starter. So you're totally not alone on this one.

Glad its moving along!

Glottis
May 29, 2002

No. It's necessary.


Yam Slacker

Last time I brewed a California Common, I was trying to clone Anchor Steam exactly. I ended up with the grain bill of 12:1 2-row:C60L and it looked exactly like Anchor Steam. I took this photo and I can't remember which was the commerical version. Taste was completely on point too.

https://imgur.com/a/nootKAW

Here's the whole recipe if you're interested
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homeb...hor-steam-again

robotsinmyhead
Nov 29, 2005

Dude, they oughta call you Piledriver!

Clever Betty

Really weird and unfortunate thing happened to me this weekend: I brew a 10gallong batch of my sour wort base last weekend and split it 50/50 into 2 identical, clean, previously used kegs. They were both handled the same and got the same dose of Goodbelly and priobiotic pills. One was fermented under pressure via a spunding valve and the other was fermented "open" (the keg holds less than 1psi before it leaks naturally, I only use it for souring).

They're now at equal FG and pH (by taste), but the one the spunding/pressurized keg took on an off-flavor - one of the ones I can never put my finger one, but it's slightly astringent, chlorine-y, phenolic.

I've dumped it already, so I'm not looking to try to fix it or anything, just weird to have such drastic changes in the fermentation cycle of things.

Scarf
Jun 23, 2005



Speaking of slow starts... I'm talking myself off the ledge with some slow yeast for my starter. 5 or so years in, and I don't think I'll ever NOT be anxious when yeast doesn't take off in the normal timeframes.

Got my starter on the stirplate around 9pm last night and as of this morning, nothing but MAYBE a handful of tiny bubbles on the edge of the flask to indicate some CO2 coming up. I really shouldn't be too surprised, the yeast was a week past the "best by" date (WLP 810). My dude at the local shop said that White Labs dates their poo poo so that the "best by" date actually has about 30-50% viability left. I dunno if I buy that, but this guy knows his poo poo and doesn't generally bullshit people.

I guess we'll find out!

Hoping to see some more activity when I get home from work this evening.

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


Thatís true for the big yeast suppliers. Theyíre dated for about 50% viability or less. I like to buy them then because I just make starters anyway and theyíre a bargain that I donít feel bad if I donít use.

Usually it takes an extra day or two before theyíve built up to where I need them for pitching. I also store saved yeast next to my kegs for over a year between batches with this method. As long as I use them once a year theyíll be around in half-pint jars for a long time.

Scarf
Jun 23, 2005



Jhet posted:

Thatís true for the big yeast suppliers. Theyíre dated for about 50% viability or less. I like to buy them then because I just make starters anyway and theyíre a bargain that I donít feel bad if I donít use.

Usually it takes an extra day or two before theyíve built up to where I need them for pitching. I also store saved yeast next to my kegs for over a year between batches with this method. As long as I use them once a year theyíll be around in half-pint jars for a long time.

Oh sweet, good to know! Ha, forgot to mention, he sells anything past-date at 50% off... So yeah, that was nice.

I'm not too worried, but brewday is Saturday, and I just need enough time for one more step, and then an overnight cold-crash so I can decant.

ChiTownEddie
Mar 26, 2010

Awesome beer, no pants.
Join the Legion.


I finally got a chest freezer. Anyone have a good guide they used for building a keezer?!

robotsinmyhead
Nov 29, 2005

Dude, they oughta call you Piledriver!

Clever Betty

ChiTownEddie posted:

I finally got a chest freezer. Anyone have a good guide they used for building a keezer?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHWy_Vlw3J4

I used this guide pretty much unchanged. I had to make some minor modifications to get the lid to fit on the inside, but it was a very good outline.

I HIGHLY recommend using something bigger than 2x4. I ended up with 2x6 so I could get a keg to sit on top of the 'hump' and still fit.

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


Thatís a good guide to start and you can go further by putting nice facing on the outside, or putting some insulation on the inside. Either way, find a way to deal with humidity that will inevitably accrue. If you go with extra width, make sure your shanks are the right length to fit.

I also donít like the taps right in the middle, but thatís because Iím likely to open them when putting kegs in or out. I put my gas lines on one side for a similar reason.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


Bottled two experimental beers; first one with a love buzz inspired grain bill, citra and green tea, using norwegian malts, Kveik and "eik & tid" bottle dregs.

The other was a kvass, using toasted Rye bread with caraway seeds, dark Munich, rye malt and flaked spelt. This was fermented with Blaugies yeast and Anchorage bitter monk dregs.

Quite a lot of tannins in the latter, need a better filter for mashing so I get less bread in the boil, but I think it can still turn out pretty good. Really slow ferment too, hope it doesn't overcarbonate.

thotsky fucked around with this message at Jun 11, 2019 around 07:55

hot cocoa on the couch
Dec 8, 2009



Just gonna quote an earlier post of mine cause I just built a collar last month.

hot cocoa on the couch posted:

So I talked a little earlier about building a collar for my keezer. Well, I did it, figured I'd share some pics and thoughts with the thread about it. imgur gallery here.

Early on I figured I'd space the taps out along the length of the front, but I'm glad I bunched them up on one side. They're all over top of the co2 tank on the compressor hump, and theres no interference. I can definitely squeeze a 4th keg in now, but I had to add 8 inches to do it, so swinging kegs in and out is a bitch now. I plan to keep a stool nearby.

4 1/8th in. shanks were the perfect size, I went through about 2 1/4 in. of wood, and then plus the length inside the faucet/front shroud and the rear spout nut, I've got barely 1/2 in. to spare. I'm planning to insulate with 1/2 in. foam so it's perfect.

One thing that's lacking that I immediately regret is a drip tray! Also wow they're not cheap, any recommendations for DIY or something along those lines?

Pretty pleased with how it turned out, I learned a lot about working with wood that I (as a mechanical engineer) had no experience with! Haha. Was fun overall.

Next I plan to build a fermentation chamber with multiple discreet chambers using my current mini fridge ferm chamber as a refer. Will post ideas as I go!

A few other notes - the frame was 2x8s, so I added 7 1/4" height to allow a fourth keg on the compressor hump. The facade was 1x12 pine. I recommend making some measurements and drawings to make sure you maximize space - depending on the size of your freezer it might be a bit snug! I modelled the build in solidworks but that was a bit overkill haha.

I took the lid off and affixed it directly to the collar, and laid some tape backed rubber weather stripping to the top of the freezer interface plate. That was the only modification I made to the freezer itself, everything else is easily reversible. The collar is simply resting on that weather stripping.

You'll probably want a fan at some point to circulate the cold air into the upper portion of the keezer where the collar is. Cold air falls, so there will be a dramatic difference in some cases between the temp in the collar section and the freezer section. And probably one of those non-electric dehumidifiers.

And dont forget a drip tray!!!!!!!

e:

Jhet posted:

If you go with extra width, make sure your shanks are the right length to fit.

Yeah, see my post above. I couldn't find any reliable dimensional drawings for the shanks when I was modeling so I went over what I thought I needed - and it still ended up being just right! A 4 1/8" shank thru 2 1/4" of wood. After affixing the taps, front shroud, interior nut and the nut/nipple, I had only about 1/2" of thread left.

hot cocoa on the couch fucked around with this message at Jun 10, 2019 around 23:23

LaserWash
Jun 28, 2006


robotsinmyhead posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHWy_Vlw3J4

I used this guide pretty much unchanged. I had to make some minor modifications to get the lid to fit on the inside, but it was a very good outline.

I HIGHLY recommend using something bigger than 2x4. I ended up with 2x6 so I could get a keg to sit on top of the 'hump' and still fit.

Just built my second keezer (R.I.P. Keezer #1). Agree with the 2x6 recommendation. Keezer 1.0 had 2x10 and it was really difficult to reach in the bottom... something like 2x4 won't give you a reasonable collar height for a set of handles.

Keezer 2.0 is a 15 cubic foot. Should be able to hold 10+ kegs. Just have 6 kegs and 5 taps right now though. [/humble_brag]

robotsinmyhead
Nov 29, 2005

Dude, they oughta call you Piledriver!

Clever Betty

Just for completion's sake, I would definitely measure your 'reach-over' range and make sure you're not overextending. 2x6 got me to JUST clear a 4th keg on the Hump of my keezer (Idylis 7.1 Lowe's Model), but I'm only 5'8" and I can BARELY touch the bottom it the keezer leaning over to clean it out. If you're taller, I'd have no issue pushing for 2x8s, cause why not - and if you're shorter, you might have some problems cleaning it out (and you will have to clean it out)

hot cocoa on the couch
Dec 8, 2009



robotsinmyhead posted:

Just for completion's sake, I would definitely measure your 'reach-over' range and make sure you're not overextending. 2x6 got me to JUST clear a 4th keg on the Hump of my keezer (Idylis 7.1 Lowe's Model), but I'm only 5'8" and I can BARELY touch the bottom it the keezer leaning over to clean it out. If you're taller, I'd have no issue pushing for 2x8s, cause why not - and if you're shorter, you might have some problems cleaning it out (and you will have to clean it out)

I use a stool to help lift kegs in and out, and I'm 5'10", but I'll probably just take the whole assembly off for cleaning

Scarf
Jun 23, 2005



Scarf posted:

Oh sweet, good to know! Ha, forgot to mention, he sells anything past-date at 50% off... So yeah, that was nice.

I'm not too worried, but brewday is Saturday, and I just need enough time for one more step, and then an overnight cold-crash so I can decant.

No real sign of krausen, but definitely some propagation... starter turned super milky, decent amount of co2 bubbles. Gonna give it til tonight so itll have a full 48hrs on the stir plate. Then it's on to step 2.

Does anyone here actually do cell counts of their starters? My gf's son is hankering for a microscope, and I wanna "borrow" it to get a lil more serious about building my starters...

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


You can get hemocytometer slides to count cells. I have one, but I've not actually gotten around to doing it. I just plate and check for odd shaped cells when things get to higher generations in my small bank. White Labs has a good webpage that I have bookmarked if I ever get around to doing it. https://www.whitelabs.com/beer/cell...ability-testing

Scarf
Jun 23, 2005



Jhet posted:

You can get hemocytometer slides to count cells. I have one, but I've not actually gotten around to doing it. I just plate and check for odd shaped cells when things get to higher generations in my small bank. White Labs has a good webpage that I have bookmarked if I ever get around to doing it. https://www.whitelabs.com/beer/cell...ability-testing

Thanks, I appreciate it!

ChiTownEddie
Mar 26, 2010

Awesome beer, no pants.
Join the Legion.


Thanks for the Keezer notes!

I tasted my berliner and holy poo poo its exactly what I wanted. 3lb Pilsner malt, 3.5lb White Wheat, no hops, Omega Hothead + Omega Lacto co-pitched at 90 then let it free fall. Next up is to fruit it (its for a fruit beer competition). I'm thinking blueberries and peaches...

robotsinmyhead
Nov 29, 2005

Dude, they oughta call you Piledriver!

Clever Betty

The odds of this are slim, but I'm pouring at a Homebrewer's Festival called Homebrew Palooza outside of Indy (like, Westfield area) next week with my club. I think there's north of 50 homebrewers there.

If you're in the area, let me know. I have some free ticket vouchers I think.

Scarf
Jun 23, 2005



Anyone have experience with playing around with their mash thickness? I wanna make sure I'm understanding the concept before I go try it. From some basic reading it seems like thinning out the mash can result in better efficiency and a more fermentable wort. Can you use this to compensate for the lack of fermentable sugars from a higher mash temperature?

For example, I'm working on an imperial stout recipe for later this summer, and I'm shooting for a ton of body/mouth feel and probably gonna go north of 155*F for the mash temp. Wanting to keep it pretty high in abv by the end, could I adjust the mash thickness to get the best of both worlds? Full body AND highly fermentable?

Or am I grossly over-simplifying it?

robotsinmyhead
Nov 29, 2005

Dude, they oughta call you Piledriver!

Clever Betty

Kinda curious about that myself. When I do my kettle sour base mashes, I sometimes do a no sparge, so it's Full Volume (like 3qt/lb) and sometimes put it right at 1.75qt/lb and I don't really notice a difference. Not exactly complex malt bills in those though,.

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

Scarf posted:

I'm working on an imperial stout recipe for later this summer, and I'm shooting for a ton of body/mouth feel and probably gonna go north of 155*F for the mash temp. Wanting to keep it pretty high in abv by the end, could I adjust the mash thickness to get the best of both worlds? Full body AND highly fermentable?

It's just my opinion, but there's so much body already happening in a RIS, just because of the richness of the wort, that you don't really need to fatten up the mouthfeel with a high mash temp. I think it would be easy to cross over into oily and cloy. I typically mash my big beers pretty thick (~1.1 qt./lb) to get them to fit in my tun, but I aim for 149-150^F so it doesn't end up like molasses.

Jo3sh fucked around with this message at Jun 14, 2019 around 20:09

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Scarf
Jun 23, 2005



Jo3sh posted:

It's just my opinion, but there's so much body already happening in a RIS, just because of the richness of the wort, that you don't really need to fatten up the mouthfeel with a high mash temp. I think it would be easy to cross over into oily and cloy. I typically mash my big beers pretty thick (~1.1 qt./lb) to get them to fit in my tun, but I aim for 149-150^F so it doesn't end up like molasses.

Makes sense, thanks!

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