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Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


robotsinmyhead posted:

Controversial advice - ditch the carboy and don't even look at it. It's useless for 5gal batches, they're kind of a pain to clean, they're heavy, and they break easily.

I have one that I exclusively use for mead. Spend the $8 next time you can and just get a proper bucket + lid with a port. Even if you only do one at a time, I think it's wise to have batch count +1 at all times so you can do things like Secondary, clarification, bottling, etc.

Not that controversial. But please bring me the glass carboy as theyíre perfect for my long aging process.

You can use hops without issue for Philly Sour, and lots of beer has been historically made without hops. So beer it is! Awesome that it worked really well for you. I donít know if Iíll ever try it, but I like it when people make cool beer.

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Pillow Armadillo
Nov 14, 2005

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!"


First attempt at an Irish extra stout is scheduled for bottling next week. Did a pre-carbonation sampling with a neighbor earlier in the week and we were really pleased with the first impressions. Basically followed a BYO Guinness clone recipe, but without pitching additional lacto/brett. First time using Wye Challenger hops.

Pandemic did a number on our LHBS shops. Does anyone have a solid recommendation on online hops suppliers with a wide selection?

robotsinmyhead
Nov 29, 2005

Dude, they oughta call you Piledriver!



Clever Betty

Jhet posted:

Not that controversial. But please bring me the glass carboy as theyíre perfect for my long aging process.

You can use hops without issue for Philly Sour, and lots of beer has been historically made without hops. So beer it is! Awesome that it worked really well for you. I donít know if Iíll ever try it, but I like it when people make cool beer.

I only put controversial because some grognards are still nuts about glass carboys. There's a guy in my brew club that swears by them so

OSU_Matthew
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME




Toilet Rascal

robotsinmyhead posted:

Controversial advice - ditch the carboy and don't even look at it. It's useless for 5gal batches, they're kind of a pain to clean, they're heavy, and they break easily.

I have one that I exclusively use for mead. Spend the $8 next time you can and just get a proper bucket + lid with a port. Even if you only do one at a time, I think it's wise to have batch count +1 at all times so you can do things like Secondary, clarification, bottling, etc.

Thanks for the confirmation... Iíll use the bucket for this weekend!

I picked up a plastic 7 gal widemouth carboy from the lhbs for the first batch, and yeah, I donít trust myself from accidentally smashing the 5 gal while trying to clean it. We might wind up using it for kombucha or mead, depending on how the first gallon batch of mead we did awhile back comes out.

Which speaking of, have a picture of some kombucha!



Grew the scoby from an unflavored bottle from Whole Foods, and this is... our tenth batch I think? Been testing out various fruits for flavoring and itís been going so deliciously well weíre going to pick up some more flip top bottles and wide mouth jars to bump up our production

Canít find the mead right now for a picture unfortunately... think it got moved to the basement. Now that I think about it, itís actually probably ready for us to try here soon. Weíve also been doing a lot of sauerkraut and kimchi in fermentation crocks this last year too. Fermented garlic is probably next up on that front.

Jhet posted:

Not that controversial. But please bring me the glass carboy as theyíre perfect for my long aging process.

If youíre ever in or around central Ohio pm me and itís all yours!

Toebone
Jul 1, 2002

Start remembering what you hear.

robotsinmyhead posted:

Controversial advice - ditch the carboy and don't even look at it. It's useless for 5gal batches, they're kind of a pain to clean, they're heavy, and they break easily.

I have one that I exclusively use for mead. Spend the $8 next time you can and just get a proper bucket + lid with a port. Even if you only do one at a time, I think it's wise to have batch count +1 at all times so you can do things like Secondary, clarification, bottling, etc.

I don't even think that's controversial anymore, I can't remember the last some I saw someone recommending a glass carboy for anything but long-term aging.

Kraftwerk
Aug 13, 2011
i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

Pillow Armadillo posted:

Thanks for the lead on these recipes. There's actually two partial grain recipes archived for a honey ale and honey porter listed on whitehouse dot gov....how cool!

While I haven't brewed these (yet), I'd assume there's already room for tinkering with the recipe. At a glance, I'd probably look into that gypsum addition and adjust it to my local water profile, moreso to keep a chloride/sulfate ratio in style. From 2012 to now there's been a huge increase in yeast availability, too - swap that Danstar Windsor yeast for something else, but otherwise they look pretty approachable. When local honey is back in season, I'll give the Honey Ale recipe a go this year. Cheers!

Any suggestions on the replacement yeast or how to get the grains in small enough quantities?

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007




Kraftwerk posted:

Any suggestions on the replacement yeast or how to get the grains in small enough quantities?

you can get Windsor ale yeast online in the USA, if you need a replacement just use X british ale yeast that's around
Grains you'll just have to buy in 1lb quantities. I have so many remnant grains I ended up just buying a milll so I can keep my grains along longer.

tater_salad fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Mar 19, 2021

Pillow Armadillo
Nov 14, 2005

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!"


Kraftwerk posted:

Any suggestions on the replacement yeast or how to get the grains in small enough quantities?

Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale) or White Labs WLP004 are recommended. Made a 2L starter about 48 hours before pitching and fermented at 20C/68F

Having more trouble sourcing hops than grains locally. In the past, I've had no issue ordering base malts from the local maltsters but maybe a local homebrew club in your area can point you in the right direction?

E: I see that you're talking about the White House recipes. For a first run, I'm going to stick with the Windsor or Danstar and adjust, if needed, from there.

Pillow Armadillo fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Mar 19, 2021

more falafel please
Feb 26, 2005

forums poster



Some LHBSs sell grain in bulk, so if you go in you'd be able to buy just what you need. Otherwise, yeah, buy in 1lb quantities -- nothing ought to be more than like $3/lb at most.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007




more falafel please posted:

Some LHBSs sell grain in bulk, so if you go in you'd be able to buy just what you need. Otherwise, yeah, buy in 1lb quantities -- nothing ought to be more than like $3/lb at most.

yeah I can buy uncrushed sacks of base of 55lbs or so from 1.25-1.75 per lb,
The smaller "made from sacks" of base for about 1.79-2.50/lb depdneing on style +.20/lb if I want them to mill it

Fortaleza
Feb 21, 2008



[flexes guns] check out my sweet grains, brah



50 lbs each of Pilsner, Munich and Vienna plus 10 lbs each of Carafa III and CaraAroma. Unmarked bag is a shitload of various hops. Should tide me over for a good year or so.

My LHBS didn't have the right yeasts for me so I've got those coming by mail next week, might be able to do a brew day as early as next weekend weather permitting!

Fortaleza
Feb 21, 2008



Not sure how I'm supposed to keep the CaraAroma fresh if I keep having to open it every hour to take a whiff because it smells so goddamn good

more falafel please
Feb 26, 2005

forums poster



Fortaleza posted:

Not sure how I'm supposed to keep the CaraAroma fresh if I keep having to open it every hour to take a whiff because it smells so goddamn good

You can just eat malt. There's some husk bits that aren't the most pleasant thing, but it's fine. It tastes really good, especially toasted/crystal malts.

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


Yeah, I... uh.... only chew on my malts when Iím checking if theyíve gone stale. Yes. It doesnít matter that I only bought it a week ago.


For the person asking about hops. Yakima Valley Hops has a pretty solid selection, but they can run out. They get imports too.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007




more falafel please posted:

You can just eat malt. There's some husk bits that aren't the most pleasant thing, but it's fine. It tastes really good, especially toasted/crystal malts.

If you're not munching on your grains a little beofre and after mashing are you really living life.

LaserWash
Jun 28, 2006


Say a recipe calls for 1/2 pound of acidulated malt (5gallon batch). Anyone have a good conversion to use for lactic at 88%?

[Details: 100% Pilsner malt German pils similar to bierstadtís recipe. ]

Iím thinking somewhere in the range of 5 ml of lactic but donít want to over do it.

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


Youíd be safer taking your pH and then using a calculator to measure your acidulated needs. It depends on both your grist and starting water chem, so 5mL could be a good guess, or it could be too much or too little. Itís definitely in the right range for what I needed with Chicago water, but for pilsner only Iíd use closer to 8mL often.

more falafel please
Feb 26, 2005

forums poster



I really recommend using a brewing water calculator, my preference is the Brun' Water spreadsheet. Water chemistry isn't that complicated (well, the calculations are complicated, but that's why you use software). You need a reasonably accurate water report, if you live in a major metro you should be able to find it on the internet, otherwise your water utility most likely sends you a report once a year.

The important thing for acid is: how much bicarbonate (HCO3) is in your water, how much roasted/crystal malt is in your grist, and how much water are you using.

For other salts, you'll need to select a profile, typically based on the general color and the general type of body you want, and experiment with additions of various salts to try to get close to your water profile. It's not hard, it just takes a bit of time to get used to.

OSU_Matthew
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME




Toilet Rascal

My first batch is officially capped and conditioning!

Despite all my best attempts to gently caress it up, I think this Dunkelweisen came out really quite well! Drank the hydrometer sample and itís really quite good, lots of good caramel and chocolate flavor, seems like it has a decent body. Very excited about how itíll taste once the bottles carbonate

Think two weeks from now weíre going to get back together, crack these beers, and make a hoppy saison for spring!

broseph
Oct 29, 2005


WilWheaton posted:

LODO's definitely peaked my interests a few times in the past, and I've attempted previously and, at most, just ended up with super sulphated brews. God knows the online community for that is always toxic as gently caress though. My homebrew cold side has been locked down for years though, that's a no brainer, I ferment in kegs and do closed transfers exclusively and it's the lack of being able to do that on the small scale that previously put me off of it.

I've been over-engineering this 2 gallon mash tun with that in mind the thing's air tight, CO2 purging the 'tun with grains and all. LODO will be on the list. Sadly do not have dissolved o2 meter though, I think you can somewhat confirm accuracy with the sulphate test strips to see consumption, I'll have to find some on amazon.

I'm actually more curious at the idea of attempting to brew a batch with a sauergut reactor for lacto to throw into both the mash and the end of boil, that seemed to be one of the more interesting ideas brought up from lodo discussions

As a guy who dabbles in LODO, I recommend end of boil sauergut for pH drop. Targeting 5.55 room temp mash pH and 5.10-5.20 end of boil, I typically use about 2% by mass to drop my pH post boil while not using any acid in the mash. I run my 'gut in pouches in a sous vide bath for 5-6 days before brewing. The LODO guys are rough around the edges, but quality information to pick and choose and take away.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007




Stopping in to say this bells house yeast is a fuckin champion I actually need to pull my blanket off my fermenter as it's chugging along at 72°f with like 60° ambient.

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-


After about four months in secondary, my Duchesse de Bourgogne clone (kettle soured with White Labs Belgian Sour mix 1) has in the last few days developed what appears to be a white mould on top. The bacteria I used should be long dead since they were boiled and hopped after kettle souring. The carboy I was using for ageing had some air gap, but I assumed that the CO2 produced during secondary (i.e., with yeast) fermentation would keep it anoxic, and I haven't opened the airlock in months. I'm guessing whatever is floating on top is probably not good to drink, and without a culture and lab analysis I guess it's hard to know exactly what it is. Should I consign it to the drain?

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


Can we see a picture? It might be a pellicle, in which case you might be fine. Like, if it's obviously fuzzy I'd dump it, but otherwise the rule is "if it smells good, taste it. If it tastes good, drink it." imo.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Mar 24, 2021

Pillow Armadillo
Nov 14, 2005

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!"


If you succeed with a Duchesses clone or have the reliable recipe, would you be willing to share it? It's like my white whale of clone beers.

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-


Yeah I should have included photos.


I would say the area covered has doubled since yesterday, when I first noticed the problem. I don't check on it very often so I don't know when it first showed up. Honestly I can't tell if the smell is off since a couple days after I inoculated it with the souring mix the smell was just overpoweringly awful. I almost threw up when I boiled it, it was so sickly-sweet from the bacteria. Now it just smells like beer with a slight remnant of that bacterial odour.

e:

Pillow Armadillo posted:

If you succeed with a Duchesses clone or have the reliable recipe, would you be willing to share it? It's like my white whale of clone beers.
I adapted Northern Brewer's Heiress de Bourgogne extract recipe. Duchesse is one of my favourites and I wanted a sour that wouldn't take too long to be ready, hence the kettle souring. Then after secondary I forgot about it for long enough that I might as well have just done a conventional souring anyway. It seemed like it was headed in the right direction when I was tasting for sourness post-inoculation, although it took me 11 days rather than the three they say to expect (I think my final pH was about 3.5). If I keep this batch I'll certainly report back!

big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Mar 24, 2021

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


That's a pretty hardcore pellicle would be my guess. You probably picked up an infection somewhere. Oxygen exposure could have exacerbated it. Not great since you're doing a kettle sour, but maybe not a disaster. Certainly pellicles are not in themselves bad, my souring culture consistently creates one over time.

However, for me there are larger issues here. You kettle soured with a mixed culture that is not particularly quick souring, and which also contains brewers yeast, brett and pedio; that's going to throw some interesting flavors and will also further retard souring as the lacto has to compete with these things. With a kettle sour you want to drop the pH as quickly as possible. If you're going to try this again get yourself a pure culture of lacto plantarum. Also, I am of the opinion that a sour beer should never smell awful at any stage in the procedure; certainly not a kettle sour. A slow souring mixed fermentation beer can go through some interesting phases, but if you're in poop, nailpolish or extreme vomit territory that's hard to come back from. In your case you've killed off the mixed culture that's meant to clean up any rough edges over about a year of aging.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Mar 24, 2021

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-


Well, good to hear it might not be a complete disaster! I suppose I'll give it a taste test before I decide whether to bottle it or chuck it. I think next time I'll just wait it out and go with a conventional sour. The cultures I could get hold of at my LBS were a bit limited and this was my first attempt at a sour beer so I didn't really have an idea of what was best for kettle souring. I'm a big fan of sours in general and Flanders reds in particular so I'm up for giving it another shot and ordering a more appropriate culture from further afield next time. I can't really describe the smell at boil beyond incredibly, horribly sweet - it didn't smell like vomit but I was pretty close to doing so.

Do you have any suggestions on removing the infection? Skim it off, siphon and leave the top couple centimetres?

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


big scary monsters posted:

Well, good to hear it might not be a complete disaster! I suppose I'll give it a taste test before I decide whether to bottle it or chuck it. I think next time I'll just wait it out and go with a conventional sour. The cultures I could get hold of at my LBS were a bit limited and this was my first attempt at a sour beer so I didn't really have an idea of what was best for kettle souring. I'm a big fan of sours in general and Flanders reds in particular so I'm up for giving it another shot and ordering a more appropriate culture from further afield next time. I can't really describe the smell at boil beyond incredibly, horribly sweet - it didn't smell like vomit but I was pretty close to doing so.

Do you have any suggestions on removing the infection? Skim it off, siphon and leave the top couple centimetres?

You can't remove an infection. Unfortunately if it tastes gross and you won't drink it, you'll have to dump it. If it tastes okay, let it ride if you have space. You can dump in dregs from commercial mixed ferm beers and they'll help it evolve further. I have about 3 gallons of something left that isn't great, but I just need to brew something to blend it with. So this is another option for this brew in the future too if it tastes only okay.

That culture you started with would be good for a Flanders Red, but you just pitch it like normal and not boil like with a kettle sour. Kettle sours should really only be done with pure lacto cultures (the OYL L. plantarum is great), and then boiled after a couple days at the most. Your mixed ferm culture will take much longer to age, but will give a complex beer at the end. Really just depends on how you want to proceed. A kettle sour won't give you a Flanders beer, but can give you something very pleasant to drink anyway.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


big scary monsters posted:

Do you have any suggestions on removing the infection? Skim it off, siphon and leave the top couple centimetres?

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Pellicle

The pellicle itself is not the infection; it's just a byproduct/symptom. If your beer is infected the infection will have completely permeated your beer and cannot be removed. My best general advice would be to not mess with your sour beers too much; limiting oxygen exposure is key. Like Jhet says, you might be able to add some dregs and have the beer evolve like a normal sour beer would, but if there's any trace of nail polish or vinegar that cannot be rescued, and will only get worse. Personally, I would taste it now and package if you like it, but cut my losses otherwise.

You might want to check out these resources for you next attempt.

http://sourbeerblog.com/designing-and-brewing-a-flanders-red-ale/
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Flemish_Red-Brown_Beer

I would advise against trying for acetic expression. It might be something you enjoy in Duchesse, but you should focus on producing good, off-flavor free sour beer first, which normally includes avoiding acetobacter like the plague.

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Mixed_Fermentation
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Wort_Souring

Also, when aging your next beer I would recommend giving it the full year; my flanders red was off-flavor free and "done" at 6 months, but the malt/yeast interaction read as earthy and needed the additional 6 months to transform into the fruity/cola impression I expect from flanders red.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Mar 24, 2021

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-


Thank you for the advice! I'll check the taste later and see if it's salvageable, and plan the next one.

calandryll
Apr 25, 2003

Ask me where I do my best drinking!



Pillbug

I need to try my hand at a Flanders red. I like the style and my wife loves sour beers. Once I'm done with my basement brewery, I think I'll get one going. Also a perfect use for my unused glass carboys.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


calandryll posted:

The only concern about basement brewing is condensation from the boil. My father and uncle are working on my basement setup over the next few days. I've seen a lot of people use high end kitchen hoods to remove the moisture but I'm wondering about using a shower fan. Can pull about 110 CFM and pretty quiet. Worst case is I get it installed and doesn't work out I can always put in a larger system.

I have an area with a couple big windows that open (let's say 18 inches x 3 feet, and there's four of them). Wonder if I could get away with opening those windows and putting a couple box fans in there. But yeah good point.

The other thing I could do is there's a couple small basement windows, the kind that are like 8" x 12". I could see if I could do the vent hood and exhaust it out one of those windows.

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013


Paul MaudDib posted:

I have an area with a couple big windows that open (let's say 18 inches x 3 feet, and there's four of them). Wonder if I could get away with opening those windows and putting a couple box fans in there. But yeah good point.

The other thing I could do is there's a couple small basement windows, the kind that are like 8" x 12". I could see if I could do the vent hood and exhaust it out one of those windows.

Box fans are much better than nothing. You're producing more humidity with a full batch boil than you do in a normal kitchen unless you're canning, so I'd go with the vent and exhaust if you have the option. The alternative is the box fans and they'll just take longer to trade out the air. Still not impossible and I'm looking forward to doing something similar in my garage in the next year. I just want to brew in relative warmth in the winter and rain.

Eeyo
Aug 29, 2004



For box fans, make sure to open another window so you replace whatever air you're pushing out. If you can block off the open area of the window around the fan so that air can only escape through the fan then it can work even better. That way you're setting up a flow of window in other room/other side of room -> fan that's way better than just blowing air around with a fan. Blocking the open area around the fan will improve air flow as well since then you're able to effectively create a pressure differential that exchanges air much better.

OSU_Matthew
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME




Toilet Rascal

Looking to buy a CO2 tank, regular, connectors, and hoses to get started with flushing kegs, serving, and carbonating. Can anyone recommend any places they like to buy that stuff from or specific equipment they like? Eg tank size, etc?

I believe I recall seeing recommendations for EVABarrier and Duotight for hoses and connections...?

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


OSU_Matthew posted:

Looking to buy a CO2 tank, regular, connectors, and hoses to get started with flushing kegs, serving, and carbonating. Can anyone recommend any places they like to buy that stuff from or specific equipment they like? Eg tank size, etc?

I believe I recall seeing recommendations for EVABarrier and Duotight for hoses and connections...?

CO2 tank is best bought at your LHBS, or at least will probably have to be filled there, as there's rules about shipping pressurized things. You'll want a 5 pound cylinder for carbonating, you can use a paintball tank (it's best to get one that's designed for sanitary use) or a cartridge-based (like airsoft) for dispensing.

I still need to pick up hoses and regs and stuff as well.

If you are going ball-lock on your fittings, the recommendation I saw was to pick up 12-point fittings for your hoses, as you can use 12-point fittings on a 6-point keg but not the other way around.

https://www.homebrewfinds.com/2016/09/whats-the-difference-between-ball-lock-kegs-and-pin-lock-kegs.html

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Mar 25, 2021

Josh Wow
Feb 28, 2005

We need more beer up here!


Get the biggest CO2 tank you can, the cost of a refill is almost entirely labor. I think my 20# tank costs $36 for a refill while a 5# tank was $30.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine.





I'm the scrub using Sodastream tanks and being totally fine with it

more falafel please
Feb 26, 2005

forums poster



Find out what your options for CO2 refill/exchange are near you. I can get refills from a beverage gas supply shop close by, but if the LHBS is your only option, they might not do fills and only do swaps. That should inform whether you buy a new or used tank. A new aluminum tank is great, until you bring it in and they give you an old steel one.

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Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Drone posted:

I'm the scrub using Sodastream tanks and being totally fine with it

literally the most expensive possible route to go, lol

I went the other way and got a (food grade) paintball tank and put it on my sodastream, CO2 doctor does them and sells the fittings to make it happen

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