|
Yeah, cloudiness is typically good if you're trying to do a lactobacillus fermentation. To disambiguate a bunch of stuff:
All that said, fermented pickles are delicious and fun and I prefer them to canning, you just can't mix the different techniques without understanding how it all works.
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 14:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 08:18 |
|
|
If you're going to can a fermented food of any type, you'd always can it after fermentation. As you mentioned, the microbes and loose-fitting lids necessary for fermentation are the exact opposite of what works for canning. Also be aware that once you can a fermented product, all the good bacteria are gone. So you'll still get the flavor effects of fermentation, but no probiotics for enhanced poopin'. Fermented foods will typically last for ages in the fridge, but keep in mind even at low temperatures they'll continue to ferment and evolve over time. If you're making a small enough batch of whatever fermented item to use up while it's still good, just keep it in the fridge or whatever after fermentation. You'll keep all the good bacteria, pickles will stay crispier, etc. If you're making a big batch, that's when you'd want to can some to make it shelf stable. Like I'll usually make a 5 gallon bucket of sauerkraut, save a pint or quart jar of raw kraut in the fridge, and can the rest.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 14:12
|
|
|
My concern is that if the recipe said to boil things, and you didn't do that, then you might be trying to ferment a recipe that wasn't designed for it. You should follow fermentation-based recipes for fermented foods, and vinegar-and-boiling recipes for non-fermented foods. Don't try to ferment the latter or boil the former, they may not work right and leave you with botulism or other nasty poo poo in your food. Can you link the recipe you followed (up until it said to boil it)?
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 14:49
|
|
|
I can pretty much guarantee you that if a McDonald's copy cat recipe involves lactofermentation it's  I'd aim for a 95 percent distilled vinegar and 5 percent apple cider vinegar blend (with water and salt, obv) and add dill and calcium chloride and nothing else. The shape of thin unridged slices will do a lot of the work too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 14:50
|
|
|
^^^^ Well we'll have to see, it's been a long time since I had mcd though. TooMuchAbstraction posted:My concern is that if the recipe said to boil things, and you didn't do that, then you might be trying to ferment a recipe that wasn't designed for it. You should follow fermentation-based recipes for fermented foods, and vinegar-and-boiling recipes for non-fermented foods. Don't try to ferment the latter or boil the former, they may not work right and leave you with botulism or other nasty poo poo in your food. Sure this is the one: https://steemit.com/food/@beggars/mcdonald-s-style-pickles-copycat-recipe He raises some points which makes me wonder, like the pickling salt and the solution not going cloudy. Like as I understand fermentation it should go cloudy regardless. Also says to use air tight jars, gotta develop a lot of pressure I think.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 17:31
|
|
|
If you followed those instructions exactly, nothing would ferment and you'd just have salted cucumbers. Without the fermentation, they'd also be a low-acid food and not safe to water bath. The salt content (once you factor in the weight of the cukes) is about right for fermenting though. Tweaking the recipe the way you did, skipping the water bath and the airtight seal, should make a good fermented pickle.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 17:43
|
|
|
Arkhamina posted:Fizzing and jamming? A tale of yesterday's produce? Canning and Fermenting: Pop, pop, fizz fizz, oh what a relief it is
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 19:09
|
|
|
City of Glompton posted:Canning and Fermenting: Pop, pop, fizz fizz, oh what a relief it is Ooh, that's a good title. I love hearing the sequence of pops as the jars seal.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2022 22:51
|
|
|
My first time canning in a while. Peach jam (because my grocery store had a sale my broke rear end couldn't pass up), four jars worth. That is one to use immediately, and three others got canned to last a minute.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:13
|
|
|
i love peach jam  had a disaster tonight and burned 10 lbs of plums while i was simmering them to make juice for jelly  they were fine for like 30 minutes, and then in the literal 5 mins i left them alone, they burned. ugh. at least they were free and we don't love plum jelly that much. plus my neighbor who has the tree still has more that need to be picked so i can go across the street tomorrow and pick some more. just a lot of work tonight sorting them, picking stems off, etc etc. if anyone has an idea for saving burnt-flavored plum stuff lmk, i'm willing to try it just to avoid so much waste. edit: decided that's a fool's errand and threw it all out. i also picked plenty of fresh plums this morning. anyway here they were looking like a weird pizza before i burned them:  also picked out some of the prettiest ones and am trying a brined recipe with basil  the recipe listed lots and lots of herbs that pair well so i went around my garden trying bites of plum with different herbs to see what i liked best. sage was the runner up, followed by thai basil, then rosemary. i didn't like lemon thyme with it at all and didn't try anything else after that. i hope it turns out well, we shall see i also kept 1.6 lbs of not as nice or really ripe plums and am trying to make a vinegar with them, in the spirit of the apple scrap vinegar i make every year. i decided to do this because i had a fermented plum pop while i was sorting and it smelled deliciously vinegary. this is 6 cups of water and 2 tbsp sugar, let's hope that works out ok  the fermenting stuff gets to live on the bookshelf with the eggs waiting to be brooded because it's the coolest part of the house right now 
City of Glompton fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Aug 16, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 05:24
|
|
|
City of Glompton posted:anyway here they were looking like a weird pizza before i burned them: Ha, saw the thumbnail before I read your post, and thought it was a quiche getting ready to be baked.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 16:32
|
|
|
JoshGuitar posted:If you followed those instructions exactly, nothing would ferment and you'd just have salted cucumbers. Without the fermentation, they'd also be a low-acid food and not safe to water bath. The salt content (once you factor in the weight of the cukes) is about right for fermenting though. Tweaking the recipe the way you did, skipping the water bath and the airtight seal, should make a good fermented pickle. I've seen many recipes that have you rinse or briefly put cucumbers into boiling water. Also boiling the brine and then cooling it. I think the idea there is to kill the bacteria that may have come from soil or people touching cucumbers, and let the lactic bacteria and yeast from the air repopulate. But then you're not supposed to seal it - you leave jars open or under cloth, just use weights so cucumbers are submerged in brine. The recipe mentioning two to four weeks to ferment is also wild, it normally takes 3-4 days at room temp to be noticeably change in taste, and probably after a week it's good to fridge the pickles.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 15:31
|
|
|
Get a copy of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Fermented-Ve...la-331493323889 A good crock will will give you much better results and a higher success rate I have a number 1 and a number 2. Only real deviation I do from fermented vegetables is to add a starter from either yogurt whey or a sauerkraut or a previous ferment. Flexible cutting boards can be cut into reusable circles to fit your crock below the weights.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 17:04
|
|
|
Pre-boiling things you're going to lacto-ferment sounds to me like it would increase, not reduce, the chance of contamination. Lactobacillus and ambient yeast are extremely common and should be in large quantities on basically all fresh veg. Sure, other bacteria are present too, but the whole point of the salinity is to provide an environment where lacto outcompetes basically all other bacteria; if you kill a lot of lacto through boiling, whatever remaining lacto will not be able to start acidifying the brine as quickly, creating a longer window where other bacteria could take hold. At best it's a wasted step, just give your veg a thorough rinse and make sure they're clean of any visible dirt etc. Also, lots of lacto ferments stay at cool room temp for months or even indefinitely (this is how traditional sauerkraut, kimchi, many Chinese- and some Japanese-style pickles, etc, are all made--put veg in brine, leave it in a cool spot forever), 2-4 weeks is totally fine. 3-4 days is also fine, if you want things less sour and more fresh-tasting. You will also want different lengths of time depending on the ambient temp (longer in winter, shorter in summer). Just taste your lacto-fermenting pickles as they go and fridge em when they're a little less sour than you like. That's it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 15:54
|
|
|
It's been two weeks now I think and the big jar looks like this;  Some white sediment, part of normal fermentation perhaps? I washed them off, tasted it and it tasted fine. I put them in a vinegar pickling solution instead, just white vinegar and water and then into the fridge. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Aug 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 19:31
|
|
|
i'm no expert but i do believe the sediment is normal i canned sweet pickles as well as reprocessd my cucumber jelly yesterday the small jars of pickles have the teeny babies and i'll reserve them for gifts. the big jars are mine all mine. hope i can save even more cukes for the next batch  idk about the jelly... gonna try making a new batch, strain it even more to get it clear, and make sure it's gonna set. flavor is nice tho 
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 20:42
|
|
|
Did you happen to squeeze the medium you filtered the jelly through?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 21:30
|
|
|
i had to squeeze the bag to get cucumber juice out. i learned halfway thru that just-picked cucumbers were much easier to juice than refrigerated ones.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 21:35
|
|
|
Ah, yeah. That'll make it cloudy. Some jelly recipes I've seen ask that pulp be left overnight to strain for the sake of keeping the jelly clear.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2022 21:42
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:It's been two weeks now I think and the big jar looks like this; I'd hit it  . I woulda just left them in the brine... the vinegar is gonna give you like a hybrid lactic/acetic acid flavor. Although that might be a nice combo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2022 00:03
|
|
|
You can check if you are getting a good ferment with ph strips too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2022 02:00
|
|
|
JoshGuitar posted:I'd hit it They've sat a few days in the vinegar solution now and the flavour did change, still a very sour pickle, but I like it, I would call it a success. I have the smaller jar of sliced pickles still sitting in the original brine. I will give that another week and taste it for reference.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2022 11:52
|
|
|
Looking for suggestions on what to do with 3 trees worth of cherry plums. I could just do the usual chutney and dried plums but I crave novelty.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 02:48
|
|
|
maybe you can try fermenting some? i'm trying my hand at making tepache since i haven't started making kombucha in these jars yet  i'm also doing round 2 of cucumber jelly. i harvested a lot of cucumbers today:  i already a whole drawer full in the fridge, so i had to do something with them. i'll be using the pulp for cucumber bread. this time, i peeled and de-seeded the cucumbers (per the bread recipe) and i am not squeezing the shreds, i'm letting them very slowly drip. i'll also try letting it sit overnight as suggested. it looks quite unsavory in my processing room huh  because adhd i guess, i also sliced up a huge watermelon and i'm working up the gumption to go de-seed and puree some so i can make watermelon jelly, and i have a big bowl of plums that are ripe that i need to juice and not burn this time so i can make jelly from them too the plum vinegar is vinegaring along nicely, and the brined fermented plums are looking good (honestly they look almost unchanged at this point). they've been joined by Mr. Glompton's sourdough starter, which got its yeast from some plums.  my hen better hurry up and get broody, those eggs don't have too many more days to wait!
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 03:05
|
|
|
Zosologist posted:Looking for suggestions on what to do with 3 trees worth of cherry plums. I could just do the usual chutney and dried plums but I crave novelty. I lifted this recipe from a Steingarten book. It's written for apricots, but dark skinned plums are what I usually make it with 3# stonefruit 1/3 C water 3/4 C sugar ~2 T lemon juice Wash, halve and pit fruit. In a deep saucepan, combine water and sugar. On medium heat, stirring frequently, heat sugar syrup to 230°F (Thread stage) Add fruit, stirring gently until liquid returns to 230°F. Transfer to pints/half pints according to preference, and can in boiling water bath according to your altitude 5 minutes for half pints, 10 minutes for pints.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 05:07
|
|
|
Zosologist posted:Looking for suggestions on what to do with 3 trees worth of cherry plums. I could just do the usual chutney and dried plums but I crave novelty. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 06:36
|
|
|
got foam and a delicious smell, really excited to try this out
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 23:05
|
|
|
opened up the fermented plums today and they are delicious. just little fizzy pops of plum. i'll make this or something similar again for sure
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 00:12
|
|
|
Hit the farmers market yesterday morning, found my lady who sells the less pretty beets in ice cream buckets: 3 buckets, no greens, 20 pounds for $15! Those will be today's canning project. Also loaded up on peppers for my favorite spicy treat. https://www.food.com/recipe/candied-jalapeno-or-cowboy-candy-453141 With cowboy candy (candied hot peppers!) - it always ends up with way more syrup, at the end which is fantastic on meat.  I started out with about 9lbs of peppers: jalapenos, cayennes, and hot Hungarian. Took me and hour to slice them.  Made a double batch of the syrup, and simmered them in batches. Stuffed into half pint jars, used a chopstick to poke out bubbles, and sealed. Processed 10 minutes. 17 1/2 pint jars all in all. (I give a fair amount of them as gifts!)   I also canned 5 half pints of the left over syrup too! Love this time of year. Posting while waiting for the beets to cook after peeling them all. Spicy pickles beets incoming! 
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2022 18:25
|
|
|
Oh, that sounds good. Nice work! One of the very few niche tools in my kitchen is a mandoline slicer. I use it like twice a year to make pickles, but it makes cutting the pickle slices go way faster. Highly recommended. Just make sure to get some cut-resistant gloves, because that mandoline blade is scary sharp.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2022 18:34
|
|
|
I cut the beets by hand because they are fairly thick slices, but use a mandolin for the onion that goes in the pickle. Saw someone using one at work for a company bbq to do onions and she had no glove, and the guard was next to her on the table. 'I use it when I get close!' aaaaiie. Asked her to use it. I don't want to take anyone to urgent care today!
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2022 19:50
|
|
|
The last time I gifted cowboy candy the person didn't like them because they were "sweet." She knew exactly what she was getting into because I called them "candied jalapeños."
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2022 21:51
|
|
|
ohh, that looks delicious and i am growing all of those peppers! i won't be able to make as much but i'll have to try that out. i never updated on my tepache or fermented plums, but rest assured, they were both delicious. so is all the watermelon and plum jam, and sweet pickles i've made recently. half sour pickles were not so great, but i think i should have sliced the cukes, whole was too much for the fermentation process to handle imo. tonight i'll be canning bread and butter pickles and starting a small jar of fermented jalapeņos. i also picked green tomatoes to make that awesome green tomato relish someone itt recommended last year, but i don't think i have quite enough yet, need another day or two
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2022 22:43
|
|
|
This year I just absolutely passed on any garden, so I am 100% farmers market sourcing. 5 hours after start, just finishing processing 19 pints of beets. I ponder at times how much you must have had to put up to 100% feed a family through a winter. It's kind of mind boggling.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2022 23:06
|
|
|
smart. i have spent a lot of hours on my garden for not a whole lot in return except that it looks pretty to me. the heat has been brutal on things and a lot of stuff hasn't put on fruit like it should anyway, here are some pretty pictures of stuff i canned so far this summer: peach salsa, half home grown stuff, half store bought  watermelon jam  watermelon jelly (strained it, not much came out but it made a difference)  plum jelly, no pectin, plums from neighbor's tree. i wish it had set a little more but it tested ok and i was sick of stirring  cucumber jelly round 2, much more strained than the first batch. haven't tasted this yet, but i have so much jelly open in the fridge i don't want to open it yet  tepache. got me buzzed, wasn't expecting that lol. i am working on a new batch currently, it's good stuff.  i need to get out to the canning and fermentation station and get working on tonight's projects. i sure hope my bread and butter pickles turn out, last years were totally mediocre
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2022 01:54
|
|
|
Those fruit jams and jellies look amazing, I'm glad the second batch of cucumber jelly came out so clear for you!
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2022 04:21
|
|
|
thank you! i think your suggestion to leave it sit overnight really helped, much appreciated 
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2022 06:08
|
|
|
City of Glompton posted:thank you! i think your suggestion to leave it sit overnight really helped, much appreciated
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2022 06:51
|
|
|
i'm gonna do some home canning of some home made pizza sauce today. how long do you think jars of tomatoes and herbs should be marked for? i dunno the longevity of this stuff. Also most recipes i'm finding have you adding lemon juice to the cans but are just hot water baths. Can that be omitted if i'm pressure canning?
Captainsalami fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Sep 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2022 14:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 08:18 |
|
|
Can't speak to the specific science, but in general, canned (home or store process) food doesn't go bad for a few years, it just loses nutrients. I have absolutely eaten my own tomato products 3 years later and didn't notice a different. I believe meat sauces are a year?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2022 15:36
|
|