Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«76 »
  • Post
  • Reply
consensual poster
Sep 1, 2009



Furious Lobster posted:

02Krug was fantastic, totally blew Dom out of the water.

The Krug must've been really special. Last time I had 2002 Dom, I went in thinking I hated Dom and came away a true believer. It's a great wine.

Drinking a bottle of 2002 Andre Clouet Dream Vintage BdB tonight. Lovely, but starting to show its age a bit.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Had 8 people over for (an interpretation of) this menu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1v4BYV-YvA

Mulligatawny and amontillado sherry.

Monkfish with roasted cauliflower and glazed carrots, with Schloss Johannisberg Gelblack 2015.

Chicken confit with puree of apple and sweet potato, with Charles Mignon brut Champagne. Not great, but ok. A cheap one in magnum, that was what mattered.

"Fruit" for dessert ended up being chocolate cake with raspberry sauce, with LBV port.

Today, takeaway pizza and low lighting.

edit: also had a tiger rug

Ola fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2019 around 14:22

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


That's a clever idea, I will steal that for next year.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

500 CIGARETTES!


Went for Domaine Plageoles Mauzac Nature for bubbly last night. Very good, very unique.

Bape Culture
Sep 13, 2006


Iíve been drinking a lot of 2011 Domaine Leflaive Chevalier-Montrachet Grand Cru with some friends who are a lot richer than I realised. I can not afford to be drinking it myself at home so where should I be looking for something at about 1/10th of the price with a similar vibe?

Also surprised to see people above enjoying krug more than Dom. Iíve always, always been disappointed by krug and swore off it last time I was served it up at The Man Behind The Curtain. Whereas 90% of the time Iíve been delighted by Dom. Would rather have a pretty basic taittinger than a krug tbh. My cheapy go to is taittinger 2005. Highly recommend.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


Bape Culture posted:

Iíve been drinking a lot of 2011 Domaine Leflaive Chevalier-Montrachet Grand Cru with some friends who are a lot richer than I realised. I can not afford to be drinking it myself at home so where should I be looking for something at about 1/10th of the price with a similar vibe?
Your friends are awesome! Bargains in white burg are rare, but for $50-70 per bottle I'd suggest a Paul Pernot 1er cru, or perhaps Pierre-Yves Colin Morey from St Aubin or Rully

Bape Culture posted:

Also surprised to see people above enjoying krug more than Dom. Iíve always, always been disappointed by krug and swore off it last time I was served it up at The Man Behind The Curtain. Whereas 90% of the time Iíve been delighted by Dom. Would rather have a pretty basic taittinger than a krug tbh. My cheapy go to is taittinger 2005. Highly recommend.
IMO the 2002 Krug is a great wine but for my taste it is more impressive than enjoyable. Whereas say the Grande Cuvee 165 is exactly the opposite

I also like Taittinger more than Krug or Dom - one of my top wines in the past year was a 1970 Taittinger (not CdC just the basic bottling)

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Bape Culture posted:

Iíve been drinking a lot of 2011 Domaine Leflaive Chevalier-Montrachet Grand Cru with some friends who are a lot richer than I realised. I can not afford to be drinking it myself at home so where should I be looking for something at about 1/10th of the price with a similar vibe?

One producer I like goes by Roche de Bellene (as negociant) or Domaine de Bellene. I haven't tasted their Meursault ($50-$60 maybe?) yet but aim to soon. The Saint Aubin for instance is great value, although that one will be less full bodied. "Similar vibe", sure, but not on equal footing with Leflaive of course. See what you find near you and give one of them a try. Hunting value in white Burgundy has a certain Indiana Jones vibe, a difficult adventurous quest with the odd deadly boulder of bad spending decisions thundering towards you.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


Managed to get my hands on another two bottles of Cedric Bouchard Blanc de Noirs. Going to try to hang on to one of them for a while maybe. Are there any other producers like him in the <$70 range?

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


Biomute posted:

Managed to get my hands on another two bottles of Cedric Bouchard Blanc de Noirs. Going to try to hang on to one of them for a while maybe. Are there any other producers like him in the <$70 range?
I would suggest Jean Milan, except unlike Bouchard their output is mostly BdB. Their Terres de Noel cuvee might be a smidge above your price range; haven't tried their other cuvees

consensual poster
Sep 1, 2009



Biomute posted:

Managed to get my hands on another two bottles of Cedric Bouchard Blanc de Noirs. Going to try to hang on to one of them for a while maybe. Are there any other producers like him in the <$70 range?

The Val Vilaine or one of the higher-end cuvťes? I didn't get the impression that the Val Vilaine is something that might age well.

When you ask if there are other producers like him, what do you mean? All vintage cuvťes (even if they aren't labelled as such)? Single variety? Single vineyard? Zero dosage? All of the above?

Perseval-Farge "La Pucelle" Brut Nature might fit the bill except I'm pretty sure it's multi-vintage. I recently got a chance to taste some wines from a new producer I'd never heard of: Champagne Piollot PŤre et Fils. Didn't try a lot of them, but they were quite good and most seemed to be zero dosage, single variety, vintage Champagnes. I believe several were single-vineyard as well.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Bape Culture posted:

Iíve been drinking a lot of 2011 Domaine Leflaive Chevalier-Montrachet Grand Cru with some friends who are a lot richer than I realised. I can not afford to be drinking it myself at home so where should I be looking for something at about 1/10th of the price with a similar vibe?

Also surprised to see people above enjoying krug more than Dom. Iíve always, always been disappointed by krug and swore off it last time I was served it up at The Man Behind The Curtain. Whereas 90% of the time Iíve been delighted by Dom. Would rather have a pretty basic taittinger than a krug tbh. My cheapy go to is taittinger 2005. Highly recommend.

It's getting harder and harder to find great white burgundy for less than $100. The aforementioned Pierre-Yves Colin Morey is a great rec, and I'd add Hubert Lamy and Marc Colin in there as well. St. Aubin is the last bastion of generally-good-value in the Cote de Beaune. Meo-Camuzet's white from Haut-Cote-de-Nuits is really excellent too. Domaine Roulot's Aligote isn't Chardonnay but tastes a drat lot like it and for my money is dollar-for-dollar the best great "white Burgundy" out there.

Chablis, especially Grand Cru, can taste a fair bit like Puligny-Montrachet. And 2015-2018 have all been extremely hot, rich vintages, so if it's a recent bottling, it's going to be fatter than what's classic for Chablis. Domaine Laroche is probably my favourite value there, though really it's a fair bit harder to find disappointing wines from Chablis than elsewhere in Burgundy, so generally it's hard to go too wrong.

These days though, the best value might be from the New World: Kumeu River, Paul Cluver, and Tolpuddle are excellent, though a touch richer than Burgundy.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


consensual poster posted:

The Val Vilaine or one of the higher-end cuvťes? I didn't get the impression that the Val Vilaine is something that might age well.

When you ask if there are other producers like him, what do you mean? All vintage cuvťes (even if they aren't labelled as such)? Single variety? Single vineyard? Zero dosage? All of the above?

Perseval-Farge "La Pucelle" Brut Nature might fit the bill except I'm pretty sure it's multi-vintage. I recently got a chance to taste some wines from a new producer I'd never heard of: Champagne Piollot PŤre et Fils. Didn't try a lot of them, but they were quite good and most seemed to be zero dosage, single variety, vintage Champagnes. I believe several were single-vineyard as well.

The Val Vilaine. I'm pretty sure I tried something else by him at a restaurant once which piqued my interest, but I've never seen anything but the Val Vilaine pop up in stores here yet. I was not planning to hang on to one for longer than next new years, so don't worry :P

I guess I mean zero-dosage-ish champagnes with a certain type of complexity? After the citrus/fruity/floral opening to these wines there seems to be a depth of earthy/yeasty/mineralic characteristics that sets this apart from other champagnes that I've tried. It's not so important that they're vintage, single variety or single vineyard, but I'm sure a similar "eccentric wine-maker doing their thing" story helps.

thotsky fucked around with this message at Jan 7, 2019 around 01:34

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


Kasumeat posted:

Domaine Roulot's Aligote isn't Chardonnay but tastes a drat lot like it and for my money is dollar-for-dollar the best great "white Burgundy" out there.
Seconding this; I included Roulot Aligote in a work tasting a month ago on a whim, and most preferred it to a PYCM Bourgogne Blanc and a Mount Eden chard (!)

Since we're talking about aligote I would also look towards the Domaine de Villaine Bouzeron; it's made by Aubert de Villaine (of DRC fame)

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


Biomute posted:

I guess I mean zero-dosage-ish champagnes with a certain type of complexity? After the citrus/fruity/floral opening to these wines there seems to be a depth of earthy/yeasty/mineralic characteristics that sets this apart from other champagnes that I've tried. It's not so important that they're vintage, single variety or single vineyard, but I'm sure a similar "eccentric wine-maker doing his thing" story helps.
Ultramarine is theoretically available in your price range haha (except people who're on the mailing list are flipping it for >$150)

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


got off on a technicality posted:

Ultramarine is theoretically available in your price range haha (except people who're on the mailing list are flipping it for >$150)

I'm in Norway, so everything goes through the state monopoly; usually prices are quite good, but American stuff is less commonly stocked and does not compare quite as well to US prices as European stuff. For instance, I bought the Cedric Bouchard for the Norwegian equivalent of $65, and that's with our very stiff taxes on alchohol included; In US web-shops it seems to be going for between $70-80, and that is without tax included.

I'll keep an eye out for Ultramarine though.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

500 CIGARETTES!


Biomute posted:

I'm in Norway, so everything goes through the state monopoly; usually prices are quite good, but American stuff is less commonly stocked and does not compare quite as well to US prices as European stuff. For instance, I bought the Cedric Bouchard for the Norwegian equivalent of $65, and that's with our very stiff taxes on alchohol included; In US web-shops it seems to be going for between $70-80, and that is without tax included.

I'll keep an eye out for Ultramarine though.

Jesus, thatís a fantastic price. Clicquot Yellow Label is pushing that here in Canada.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



That's the upside of the wine monopoly. The importers are only allowed to charge a certain % profit, so stuff like DRC is sold at 1/3 of market prices. 1 or 2 bottles at least, the importer sells most of his allotment to restaurants. The alcohol specific taxes are flat, so they add a tiny percentage to expensive wines but a big percentage of cheap wines, although the 25% sales tax does sting evenly. No two buck chuck, there's hardly any wines under $12. So a Ä3 supermarket wine from France will 4x in price, but a first growth will be cheaper than in Paris.

Knowledgable staff, huge range, decent web shop with free delivery to your local outlet...Yay champagne socialism!

I've spoken to some guys who import from the US, producers like Kutch, Radio-Coteau and Copain. They said they had some trouble setting up efficient logistics, the wine makers were a bit unpredictable and did deals here and there. So the shipments were often a bit small which drove shipping costs up. Perhaps good news for the future, it should be possible for the US prices to come down a bit.

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Soiled Meat

Ultramarine is aight - had it a couple of times and got on their mailing list but for that price, I can get anything from Krug to Bouchard's Bdb with pinot blanc, etc.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


Today I'm drinking an skin-contact GewŁrztraminer from the Czech winery VinařstvŪ KrŠsnŠ Hora. The color is a perfectly clear light orange with pink highlights, peach if you will. The aroma is floral (rose and elderflower), intensely sweet and fruity (lychee and peach), but the flavor adds a tart dimension, with plenty of citrus (lime and grapefruit). The finish is very long and dry, with subtle tannins.

It's an excellent wine. I love orange wines that don't hit you over the head with it. I honestly feel like this amount of skin contact only adds to a wine and it makes me wonder why most white wines are not like this.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


A friend brought me a few skin contact whites from Georgia and they just don't do very much for me. I'm all about crisp acidity and delicate aromatics, but it's all just too much for me with 'tea leafy' tannins on top of that

On the other hand, it would be nice to someday escape the black hole that is white Burgundy

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

The Australian orange wines Iíve had so far have not had too much of a tea profile so far, but I havenít tasted very widely. The Ruggabellus and Brave New Wine options have been good - the Ruggabellus Solumodo has a touch of tea but it seemed in balance.

Skin contact and pet nat (sometimes both) seem to be the current hipster wines but I canít be too upset because both are great summer slams. I wish we could get that Czech one down here.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



got off on a technicality posted:

A friend brought me a few skin contact whites from Georgia and they just don't do very much for me. I'm all about crisp acidity and delicate aromatics, but it's all just too much for me with 'tea leafy' tannins on top of that

On the other hand, it would be nice to someday escape the black hole that is white Burgundy

Pheasant's Tears? The Georgian ones I know are in a different league than the French or Italian skin contact wines. Tough wines for a tough people.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



The Burgundy release in the Norwegian state wine shops is becoming something of an institution. The same guy is first in the queue every year. He's in line for fifteen days and gets first pick, which includes one bottle of DRC at regulated prices, between 1/3 and 1/2 of auction value.



Rumor has it that he sells, but he denies that. Would you sleep rough for two weeks to get a DRC at 60% off?

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


How many bottles can he get? If he has enough backing capital and guaranteed clients how much profit do you reckon he should be able to make? If we are talking in the hundreds of thousands (of Norwegians kroner) then I am surprised this poo poo has not been "disrupted" more overtly.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Biomute posted:

How many bottles can he get? If he has enough backing capital and guaranteed clients how much profit do you reckon he should be able to make? If we are talking in the hundreds of thousands (of Norwegians kroner) then I am surprised this poo poo has not been "disrupted" more overtly.

1 bottle of DRCRC, that's it. He could make 50-60 000 NOK on that bottle alone. But perhaps there are others like La Tache as well, I haven't seen the release list. He can get others too, but while most of Burgundy is very expensive, not everyone has such a big difference between ex-domaine and second hand prices.

Most of what comes to Norway goes to the restaurant business. I think they would prefer not to sell in the shops at all due to the price regulation, but they are obliged to sell a certain amount or something.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


Wow this is amazing. $5-6K for 2 weeks of work is equivalent to making six figures. I suppose he can also buy bottles of Dujac / Leroy / Roumier / Rousseau to go with the DRC? Or can he only buy one bottle?

I just want to taste a Romanee Conti once in my life so I can get over it forever (or perhaps I won't, which would be tragic)

Crimson
Nov 6, 2002


got off on a technicality posted:

I just want to taste a Romanee Conti once in my life so I can get over it forever (or perhaps I won't, which would be tragic)

Not worth the money unless you're going to sit on it for 2 decades, or if you're snapping up an older bottle. The prices are outrageous these days. The Montrachet, on the other hand, is pure sex in a glass even young.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



got off on a technicality posted:

Wow this is amazing. $5-6K for 2 weeks of work is equivalent to making six figures. I suppose he can also buy bottles of Dujac / Leroy / Roumier / Rousseau to go with the DRC? Or can he only buy one bottle?

I just want to taste a Romanee Conti once in my life so I can get over it forever (or perhaps I won't, which would be tragic)

Yes, he can buy lots of stuff, and most of it will be cheap compared to international market prices. Most of it will be on a per person quota too, since there's a limited amount of bottles. I'll share the price list when they publish, the quotas are in there too. Talked to someone in a shop, they said this year's price was 50 000 NOK, not 35 000, which means the list prices ex-domaine have been jacked up. I think they (and others) lost some crops due to weather in 2016.

I got to taste RC 2003 not too long ago. It was an expensive tasting to attend, about 1/8th of a restaurant priced bottle, but I justified it as "cheap" somehow. We got dinner and other wines too, including some Montrachets. One of the others was very experienced RC drinker, he said it had a perfect nose, but the taste was a bit short and closed. For me it was a great bucket list checkmark, but I would have been disappointed if I had paid full price and expected angelic choirs etc. It was absolutely beautiful, but not very powerful or long. The nose didn't have any forest floor, just "perfect pinot" like that guy said. There was a raw, pine sap-like character there as well, suggesting lots of unresolved power behind it. It can safely age a few decades more.

On another tasting, same place a year before, we had La T‚che 2000. It was more of a brute, the scent just wafted out of the glass like dry ice in a kid's science show. It had lots of five spice on the nose, a thicker texture and long aftertaste. If La T‚che was a big, spectacular choir, Romanťe-Conti was the delicate star soprano.

They aren't worth the premium over other famous Burgs and even the other famous Burgs aren't worth the premium above normal Burgs, which aren't worth etc etc. It just scales preposterously badly because it's very good, it's very famous, it has a perfect image of class, history and sophistication and so millionaires and billionaires love it and just pay whatever.

If you want to taste it and don't find any accessible options, perhaps we can find 8-10 people in this thread. You can come on holiday to Norway and we can visit Park Hotel Voss and buy one. $1200/head.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


That's amazing that you got to attend a tasting with multiple Montrachets and a Romanee Conti for ~$2K. Have you seen the prices for La Paulee 2019? They're asking $2,900 for a Mugneret-Gibourg Echezeaux dinner

Crimson posted:

The Montrachet, on the other hand, is pure sex in a glass even young.

I'm not going to ask if it's worth paying for, because it's just fermented grape juice and on some level it's insane to talk about $6-8K wines, but would you say it is clearly / consistently better than others (say Bouchard Montrachet)

Ola posted:

If you want to taste it and don't find any accessible options, perhaps we can find 8-10 people in this thread. You can come on holiday to Norway and we can visit Park Hotel Voss and buy one. $1200/head.

It's tempting. Maybe when I turn 40 - which going by average goon age these days isn't very far in the future

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


got off on a technicality posted:

I'm not going to ask if it's worth paying for, because it's just fermented grape juice and on some level it's insane to talk about $6-8K wines, but would you say it is clearly / consistently better than others (say Bouchard Montrachet)

It's definitely better than mediocre negociantes, yes. It's an extremely opulent style, with 100% new oak and almost as much ripeness as you'll ever get in Burgundy. If that's your thing, you might not find any better. If you prefer a little more elegance, you'd still probably prefer something from say Roulot or PYCM.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



got off on a technicality posted:

That's amazing that you got to attend a tasting with multiple Montrachets and a Romanee Conti for ~$2K. Have you seen the prices for La Paulee 2019? They're asking $2,900 for a Mugneret-Gibourg Echezeaux dinner


I paid less than that actually, about $1400. They charge $10,500 for the 2003. Their wine liist is here, 1 USD is 8.5 NOK.

I see that I posted the list for the tasting when I signed up:


Ola posted:


Champagne Krug Collection 1990
Maison Jadot Montrachet 1999
Domaine Comte Lafon Montrachet 1999
Chateau Cheval Blanc 2001
Dominus Estate Dominus 1994
Giacomo Conterno Barolo Riserva Monfortino 2000
Domaine de la Romanee-Conti - Romanee-Conti Grand Cru 2003

Both white Burgs were oxidized and got swapped for Marc Colin 05 and Colin-Morey 2009 Montrachets. We got compensated for this somehow, think we got some extra white Burgs with dinner. And the Monfortino was over-aired I think, it was apparently good on opening but it had completely closed up on us. A great time was had anyway.

obi_ant
Apr 8, 2005



Purchased Wine Folly and I really like the book. It's super basic, has pretty pictures and graphs and stupidly easy to read and decipher. I like drinking while looking at the graph at the same time. Any other resources that are like Wine Folly?

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



The guy in the Burgundy release queue finally got his purchase, it was even live on TV.





The total for that stack + the DRC came in at 182,666 NOK, $21,329.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



I forgot to post the price lists, there's a pdf and a spreadsheet here: https://vmp.sharepoint.com/sites/Vi...DA70A2781B13D75

1 NOK is 8.6 USD so you can divide by 10 to get a ballpark figure.

Lazyhound
Mar 1, 2004

A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous—got me?

Soiled Meat

thotsky posted:

Tokaji is awesome, probably my favorite straight up sweet dessert wine (I also like half-dry Riesling for some stuff).

I drank my first bottle of it the other night and I have to agree, it was fantastic. Of note, it does contain extremely high levels of tyramine (like 8x more than red wine).

On the topic of preserving bottles, Iíve kept bottles under argon for months at room temperature without major deterioration. Itís a pretty cheap way of stretching out bottles if youíre the glass-a-night type.

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Soiled Meat

Ola posted:

I forgot to post the price lists, there's a pdf and a spreadsheet here: https://vmp.sharepoint.com/sites/Vi...DA70A2781B13D75

1 NOK is 8.6 USD so you can divide by 10 to get a ballpark figure.

Don't have a vinmonopolet account -- any chance you can print the pdf elsewhere?

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Furious Lobster posted:

Don't have a vinmonopolet account -- any chance you can print the pdf elsewhere?

You shouldn't need an account, perhaps that link expired. It works if you click through from here: https://www.vinmonopolet.no/burgundlansering-2019

"Her finner du lanseringslisten og info om Śrgang 2016 "

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



I put it on Google Docs with a USD column: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...dit?usp=sharing

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Soiled Meat

Ola posted:

You shouldn't need an account, perhaps that link expired. It works if you click through from here: https://www.vinmonopolet.no/burgundlansering-2019

"Her finner du lanseringslisten og info om Śrgang 2016 "

Thanks for both, the link now works.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



I bought my first en primeur a year and half a go, 2016 Bordeaux, got the message they were ready to pick up a few days ago. Just 7 bottles so just for fun, to see what the experience was like. And to get 7 good bottles of course. One of the bottles is a Cos D'Estournel which got 100 points by several big reviewers just recently and so the price has picked up a little. I paid Ä166, it's now going for Ä222. Just the one bottle of Cos, so it's not an investment or anything but I'm feeling the great-deal-adrenaline surging. Got two bottles of Beychevelle, which gets 93-96 and has gone from Ä76 to $106. So far, a fun experience and definitely something I might do more of, even if Bordeaux and en primeur is falling out of fashion. Better deals for me, right?

Anyway, the place I bought from, Chateau.com, just posted a pretty awesome pic. A complete Latour vertical, 1950 to 2010:



Full size: https://cdn.chateau.com/images/cont...ur-50-10-HD.jpg

https://www.chateau.com/content/col...atour-1950-2010

That would have been a nice weekend...


e: this one would look better on your shelves though, 1957-2009 Mouton Rothschild https://www.chateau.com/content/Collection_MR_5709ii

Ola fucked around with this message at Mar 22, 2019 around 18:18

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«76 »