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Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Jerome Louis posted:

So we're getting in the swing of things for our sensory panel, one of the things I've been needing to focus on is experiencing a wide range of different sensories in wines. I'm very familiar with the beer world and the sensories there but in wine it's a new thing for me, and since I'll be leading the panel, I really need to learn my poo poo ASAP. Part of that effort in learning is to sample as many different wines as possible encompassing the entire range of sensories, and if possible find reference standards for those sensories that we can use for the panel itself.

Since I know there are goons here who know their poo poo I wanted to ask for your assistance. Does anyone have any suggestions for wines that exemplify any of these sensory clusters:

-Citrus (grapefruit, lemon/lime, orange, mandarin, tangerine, etc.)
-Tropical fruit (pineapple, melon, banana, mango, lychee, kiwi)
-White Floral (Jasmine, Gardenia, Orange Blossom, Honeysuckle, lilac)
-Fresh Green Veg (Stemmy, Cut grass, Ivy, Bell Pepper, Jalapeno)
-Cooked Veg
-Eucalyptus/Mint
-Herbaceous/Dried (dried herbs, hat, straw, tea)
-Brown Spice (Clove, Cinnamon, Nutmeg, Allspice)
-Black Spice (Licorice, anise, black pepper)
-Resinous (Pine, fir, sap, pitch, fresh rosemary)
-Wood shavings
-Butter/Cream
-Chemical (references for this would be great! Sulfides, Petroleum, Band-aid, Wet paper/cardboard)
-Earthy (soil, earth, mushroomn
-Moldy
-Mineral (very helpful to have a reference here!)
-Any kind of mouthfeel extremes, i.e. extremely burning, astringent, rough on the mouth, extremely viscous, anything that coats the mouth very well, chalky or oily/greasy would be great)

That's a lot of stuff I know but if there is anything off the top of your head that you've had recently that you thought "Woah that is all clove/cinnamon" or anything like that for the sensories posted above (or not posted above), it would be great to know so I can go get some so I can try it for myself. I'm kind of getting a crash course in wine in a short amount of time, and I can't drink through the wine world in only a few weeks... no matter how much I may try. Any of your help or guidance would be truly appreciated and in a few months here I'll hopefully be able to post some interesting sensory stuff in the thread.

Citrus - Any white wine ever basically, but some specific examples are Grapefruit: New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. Orange: Alsace Pinot Gris. Lime: Clare Valley Riesling
Tropical - Lychee: Alsace Gewutraminer. Passion Fruit: NZ SB
White flowers - Most Old World whites really
Green veg - NZ SB. Chilean Carmenere
Cooked veg - Chilean Carmenere
Mint - Coonawara Cabernet Sauvignon
Fresh herbs - Chinon/Bourgueil
Dried herbs - old Sangiovese
Baking spice - expensive New World reds, Guigal
Licorice, anise - Sangiovese
Black pepper - Grenache-based blends without new oak
White pepper - Syrah, particularly Cote-Rotie without new oak
Wood shavings - expensive red Bordeaux
Butter - La Crema Chardonnay
Cream - good quality Chablis
Petrol - Riesling, particularly Australian or German, with 5+ years of age
Rubber/Plastic - Hunter Valley Semillon, particularly with 7+ years
Sulfides - More of a stylistic choice, but your best best is typically going to be young, commercial aromatic whites under screwcap when they are freshly opened
Wet cardboard, mold - Shouldn't be present in a sound wine
Band-aid, animal - These brettanomyces odours are hard to reliably predict, but Bandol red is your best bet unless you happen to have some specific producers handy (ie. 90s Chateau du Beaucastel)
Burning - anything with more than 14% alcohol really, especially if it's young
Astrigency - Nebbiolo
Viscous/oily - Alsace Gewurztraminer
Chalky - Sancerre

I could go on, but this should lead you in the right direction!

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Penguinone
Nov 28, 2007



Jerome Louis posted:

So we're getting in the swing of things for our sensory panel, one of the things I've been needing to focus on is experiencing a wide range of different sensories in wines. I'm very familiar with the beer world and the sensories there but in wine it's a new thing for me, and since I'll be leading the panel, I really need to learn my poo poo ASAP. Part of that effort in learning is to sample as many different wines as possible encompassing the entire range of sensories, and if possible find reference standards for those sensories that we can use for the panel itself.

Since I know there are goons here who know their poo poo I wanted to ask for your assistance. Does anyone have any suggestions for wines that exemplify any of these sensory clusters:

-Citrus (grapefruit, lemon/lime, orange, mandarin, tangerine, etc.)
-Tropical fruit (pineapple, melon, banana, mango, lychee, kiwi)
-White Floral (Jasmine, Gardenia, Orange Blossom, Honeysuckle, lilac)
-Fresh Green Veg (Stemmy, Cut grass, Ivy, Bell Pepper, Jalapeno)


-Cooked Veg
-Eucalyptus/Mint
-Herbaceous/Dried (dried herbs, hat, straw, tea)
-Brown Spice (Clove, Cinnamon, Nutmeg, Allspice)
-Black Spice (Licorice, anise, black pepper)
-Resinous (Pine, fir, sap, pitch, fresh rosemary)
-Wood shavings
-Butter/Cream
-Chemical (references for this would be great! Sulfides, Petroleum, Band-aid, Wet paper/cardboard)
-Earthy (soil, earth, mushroomn
-Moldy
-Mineral (very helpful to have a reference here!)
-Any kind of mouthfeel extremes, i.e. extremely burning, astringent, rough on the mouth, extremely viscous, anything that coats the mouth very well, chalky or oily/greasy would be great)

That's a lot of stuff I know but if there is anything off the top of your head that you've had recently that you thought "Woah that is all clove/cinnamon" or anything like that for the sensories posted above (or not posted above), it would be great to know so I can go get some so I can try it for myself. I'm kind of getting a crash course in wine in a short amount of time, and I can't drink through the wine world in only a few weeks... no matter how much I may try. Any of your help or guidance would be truly appreciated and in a few months here I'll hopefully be able to post some interesting sensory stuff in the thread.

I've found that the best wines for floral/white flowers are viogniers. Domaine Gramenon la vie on y est is a great wine for this, and shouldn't break the bank like a condrieu might.

You can kill a couple birds with one stone if you pick up a reisling like the contours from pewsey vale. It has a ton of citrus/lime zest, loads of minerality, and smells like rubber and petrol. It's also got a ton of acidity, so you'll have a reference for what that feels like too.

Green pepper/cat piss/jalepeno is easiest to find in New Zealand Sauvignon blanc. Just pick up a bottle of Kim Crawford or cloudy bay or any number of New Zealand producers and you'll be able to pick it up right away. You'll also be able to find it in wines from Cabernet franc. Olga raffault chinon is a good example too.

For black spice, go pick up some Syrah from the Rhone. St. Joseph is a great appellation to look to for something a little less pricy than the cote rotie.

Wood shavings are going to be pretty evident in a lot of Napa valley cab. Just look for something that's been aged in 100% new oak, and you should be able to find it pretty easily.

There's really nothing better for butter/popcorn/diacetyl than Marsanne/Rousanne blends from the northern Rhone. You really can't go wrong with Celeste from Chave selections.

For mouthfeel extremes, Alsatian Pinot Gris is great for learning to identify oily/rich wines. Cuvee St. Catherine Pinot Gris is a great example, and if you taste it side by side with some cheap Pinot Grigio from Veneto, you'll get a really good contrast.

If you can get your hands on some super young Barolo, you'll get to experience face melting tannins. It'll feel like you're chewing on sandpaper. The better the producer, the more tannin you'll probably find. Also, young high quality Bordeaux will give you the same effect.

Some other things that are super helpful to identify are the overripe fruit/smokey honey that come along with noble rot. Any Sauternes should have tons of that character.

Another good thing to be able to identify is oxidative/reductive character. Pick up a bottle of Lopez de heridia vina gravonia white, and a bottle of Austrian gruner veltliner, and taste them side by side. The Lopez should have a bruised fruit and sherried kind of note, and you're pretty likely to find canned peaches and that sort of thing in the gruner.

As far as everything else goes, I recommend sticking to classic wines from old world wine regions, because you're a lot less likely to find an oddball wine that's confusing and doesn't demonstrate what you're looking for.

Crimson
Nov 6, 2002


Kasumeat pretty much nailed it. Couple other notable wines I'd add, if you want something floral just buy any Torrentes from Argentina. For sulfur or "matchstick" buy a decent white burgundy. Also, "mineral" is a very generic term. Just about every old world white wine smells and tastes a little like some kind of rocks, but it manifests differently from region to region. Chablis has a chalky finish. German Riesling has that wet slate quality. Pouilly-Fumé, has that "gun-flint" smell. To keep it simple for a beginner, just taste an oaky California Chardonnay next to a white Burgundy, just to learn the difference between a low degree of minerality and high, respectively.

Stitecin
Feb 6, 2004
Mayor of Stitecinopolis

Sometimes non-wine teaching aids go a long way for teaching. Steep some black tea overnight for some tannin (or have them lick a banana peel), add a bit of decent vodka to neutral white wine in steps to demonstrate the effect of increased EtOH, find a bland red and infuse some spices.

I can also recommend the faults kit Enartis Vinquiry sells. I bought one for training with my cellar crew a couple years ago. They probably can't tell the difference between TCA & TBA but they know if they smell either one to bring me a sample asap.

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit



benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
any drab gab--
I chatter hep patter

I think this may be my new favorite tasting note. A writer from New York Magazine decided to try a red wine bath. She got bored, curious, and decided to taste her "bathwater":

quote:

"... the cupped handful that I drank tasted nothing like wine and everything like old socks, crushed-up malaria medicine, and grape Dimetapp"

http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/10/i-t...n-red-wine.html

Not to be rude, but I think this says more about her terroir than anything else.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


Haha, I'm so stealing that line for the next time I have sex with a fellow wine nerd. I probably should have said "if"

Anyway, that sounds like a stupid idea. But that doesn't mean it should stop. I enjoy reading about people doing stupid things. I sometimes even enjoy me doing stupid things.

himajinga
Mar 19, 2003

Und wenn du lange in einen Schuh blickst, blickt der Schuh auch in dich hinein.


Overwined posted:

Haha, I'm so stealing that line for the next time I have sex with a fellow wine nerd. I probably should have said "if"

Anyway, that sounds like a stupid idea. But that doesn't mean it should stop. I enjoy reading about people doing stupid things. I sometimes even enjoy me doing stupid things.

I kinda feel like doing stupid things and living to tell the tale is largely the best thing about being alive.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
any drab gab--
I chatter hep patter

Jezebel had the best headline regarding the vinotherapy thing (is it even a trend?):

"Rich People Are Ruining Red Wine By Putting Their Buttholes in It"

http://jezebel.com/rich-people-are-...utth-1648608192

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009

"Let there be a thousand blossoms bloom, as far as I'm concerned."


Washing in it would improve some wines I've tried.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


Yeah I have to admit, taking a red wine bath is one very small step away from a red wine enema.

Now I'm not making any qualitative judgments on this....just saying.

AriTheDog
Jul 29, 2003
Famously tasty.

The real question is whether you get enough up in you in the bath to get buzzed...

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


AriTheDog posted:

The real question is whether you get enough up in you in the bath to get buzzed...

Well, I mean isn't that kind of the point?

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think


Fallen Rib

Need some help.

I had this wine at dinner a few weeks ago, which I really loved:

domaine des soulane jean pull 2012

I can find it online, but apparently you can't ship to Massachusetts, so no luck there. I went to a local wine store and they recommended this:

Hecht & Bannier cotes du roussillon villages 2010

It was pretty good, but not as good as the first one.

I know nothing about wine, but from what I can tell these are both grenache blends.

So, since I can't get this shipped straight to my house...any widely available options anyone can suggest? Really prefer $10/bottle pricepoint, but for something great I'll do up to $20/bottle.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


Cotes de Rousillon tend to be heavy on the Carignan so even if Grenache dominates the blend (and it rarely "dominates" down here) the wines will be markedly different from Southern Rhone wines where it is relatively cool.

For your reference, Cotes de Rousillon is (I think) the southern-most AOC in France, butting right up against the Pyrenees along the Mediterranean. It is really quite hot here so that most of the grapes are bush-trained so that the canopy can shield the fruit and prevent it from getting sunburned. These wines are thick and spicy.

They have never been widely available in the US, but that's been getting better lately what with the rise of Languedoc wines. I like a wine called Walden, which should be available retail for $10-$14. It's a half-negociant wine (he basically buys fruit from only his neighbors because they don't make wine themselves) made by the guy that makes Domaine du Clos de Fees, an important biodynamic producer in the region.

EDIT: If you feel like ponying up a bit more and especially if you like Walden, you should try to find the regular Domaine du Clos de Fees label wines. Cheapest wine he makes retails for somewhere in the high teens, low twenties, so nothing backbreaking. It's good poo poo.

Overwined fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2014 around 00:50

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think


Fallen Rib

Overwined posted:

Cotes de Rousillon tend to be heavy on the Carignan so even if Grenache dominates the blend (and it rarely "dominates" down here) the wines will be markedly different from Southern Rhone wines where it is relatively cool.

For your reference, Cotes de Rousillon is (I think) the southern-most AOC in France, butting right up against the Pyrenees along the Mediterranean. It is really quite hot here so that most of the grapes are bush-trained so that the canopy can shield the fruit and prevent it from getting sunburned. These wines are thick and spicy.

They have never been widely available in the US, but that's been getting better lately what with the rise of Languedoc wines. I like a wine called Walden, which should be available retail for $10-$14. It's a half-negociant wine (he basically buys fruit from only his neighbors because they don't make wine themselves) made by the guy that makes Domaine du Clos de Fees, an important biodynamic producer in the region.

EDIT: If you feel like ponying up a bit more and especially if you like Walden, you should try to find the regular Domaine du Clos de Fees label wines. Cheapest wine he makes retails for somewhere in the high teens, low twenties, so nothing backbreaking. It's good poo poo.

I'm willing to try anything once. Happen to have an exact name I could bring to the wine store?

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


nwin posted:

I'm willing to try anything once. Happen to have an exact name I could bring to the wine store?

I think his entry level under the Domaine du Clos de Fees label is called "Les Sorcieres". Again, this is a Cotes de Rousillon. But look for Walden too. It's a great value wine.

EDIT: The US importer is Domaine Select Wine Estates. Giving importer info to retailers really helps them track wines down. I know because I did retail for too many years!

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


Overwined posted:

EDIT: If you feel like ponying up a bit more and especially if you like Walden, you should try to find the regular Domaine du Clos de Fees label wines. Cheapest wine he makes retails for somewhere in the high teens, low twenties, so nothing backbreaking. It's good poo poo.

This led me to finding this, which is awesome. Thanks very much.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


You're welcome! I really like wines from the deep south of France. They aren't ephemeral like a good Burgundy, but there's something charming about their blend of fruity and unabashedly earthy at the same time. It's also an adventure buying wines from this area as you'll never know what you'll get. I feel like there are still hidden gems for me to discover.

I was going through google trying to find a very good Cotes de Rousillon I used to sell and love many years ago, but I couldn't find it. I did however find a Southern French wine that I sold in the somewhat less distant past that I remember vividly and that's Chateau d'Oupia out of Minervois and VDP l'Herault. The base level Ch d'Oupia is an insane screaming value, still holding strong very close to $10 retail. They also make a VDP l'Hearault called "Les Heretiques" which is mindblowing when you consider the $8-$9 price tag. It's also one of my favorite wine labels in the world:



I remember hearing an interesting story about Andre Iche, the (now deceased) central figure behind this wine. Story has it that way back when the Languedoc was called the "Lake of Wine" because almost everyone was making wine just to sell to government brandy-making subsidies, Andre was steadfast and making wines of quality. One day his neighbors wandered into his barn and threatened to break his legs unless he stopped making good wine. They were worried that if the area got the reputation for making anything approaching drinkable that the subsidies would dry up.

himajinga
Mar 19, 2003

Und wenn du lange in einen Schuh blickst, blickt der Schuh auch in dich hinein.



Just found out Wine World has this for $10, I'll have to give it try!

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Just bought a month's subscription to eRobertParker to try it out, the online version of Wine Advocate. I know he's popular to hate and the vintage web design is well into its decline, but the deciding factor was a 2005 Château Giscours I had, where I just couldn't put words to a flavor which had triggered a memory, nor could anyone else I found on google apart from Parker - glycerine! Not sure if waxing skis or eating crayons was the triggered memory. (or top fuel dragster exhaust maybe, ah childhood) The content seems up to the task so far. For instance I was struggling to find worthwhile reviews of a wine I tasted on holiday, Saint Cosme Côte-Rôtie, WA had twelve vintages.

Now, I haven't tried any other of the paid services such as Wine Spectator, International Wine Cellar etc so they might be just as good or better. What about you guys, which services do you like/hate and why?

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


For me, Parker isn't really much more than a few people's opinions. The things I don't like about the publication is that it's not anywhere near as neutral as it claims to be. I've talked to countless winemakers that certainly throw out the red carpet for the Parker critic. I've heard one anecdote from a South American winemaker where his wine was sent in for sample and garnered an 86 or something like that. The, the SA critic (not even sure who that is now) for Parker was travelling in the area and stopped by. He tasted the wines, then they went out and got hammered at a local titty bar. The same exact wine from the same exact vintage got 93. While I've never talked to anyone that admitted to this, there are countless stories of "Parker Cuvees" where winemakers make a special barrel or lot of wine to the specifications that they think Parker and his critics are looking for. Of course, these are not the wines the consumer gets.

However, Parker himself admitted long ago that the service he provides is anachronistic. Back when he started there was a large proportion of import wine that was just plain bad. Much of it was flawed garbage that snotty Frenchman sent to the States thinking we wouldn't notice. Parker existed back then to sort the wheat from the chaff. Back then a flat 90 point score was remarkable. Now, the import/export business is much more on the up and up. We get in the US 90% of the same bottlings they get in the wine's home country. Winemaking as a craft is a much cleaner and more precise one.

What the publication does provide today that is useful is just a general guideline of what to expect when you buy a wine. I do find the substance of the reviews (the stuff outside of the score) to be close to my own experiences, so when looking for a certain type of flavor, these reviews can be helpful. I definitely don't shun people that read Parker or any other type of review, even if I never read them myself anymore.

The bottom line for me on reviews is that I hate that people are afraid to drink a bad wine. A bad wine is like a bad date. You'll never know the good ones until you've tried a few bad ones. That's probably a topic for another time, though.

EDIT: I do read IWC/Tanzer because of their in depth reports on certain vintages and regions. One of my favorite pastimes is finding amazing wine from an unjustly underrated vintage (Barolo '99, Cali '06, Oregon '07 etc etc) and reports like this help.

Overwined fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2014 around 15:59

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Follow individual critics whose tastes you agree with, and focus more on the description they use rather than the score. While I wouldn't question Parker's nepotistic tendencies, he is a pretty reliable indicator of certain things, such as how much alcohol, extraction, and new oak are in a wine, if nothing else.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


I agree and would add at this point that he has an impressive repository of reviews on many individual wine. Looking at reviews all at once you can really get an idea of a winery on the rise, or one that is in disrepair.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



I'll say I'm glad I risked $12 on seeing their content for myself and leave it at that.

Overwined posted:

in depth reports on certain vintages and regions

Yes, this is what I want for my money, in-depth reports, interesting verticals/horizontals, winery profiles etc in addition to access to a continuously updated database of tasting notes. I want to dip my toes* in older vintages and higher end stuff and I want to be as informed as possible before spending arms and legs. I guess I could do a month with each of the majors and see what sticks. Maybe I could do a wine magazine horizontal for this thread?

Direct buying advice on everyday wines isn't that relevant for me since I live in Norway and whatever ends up in our stores isn't the same as in the US or even in the UK. Learning the fundamentals of wine via free sources, local wine writers and frequent visits to the local shop is the right tool for that job.


* metaphorically, for now

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


IWC has much better and more interesting reports than WA, which tends to write rather sparse overviews. I think the guys and gals at IWC are more wine writers than wine critics, anyway, which is probably why I like them. For awhile they would report on small appellations that are now rather well known, but were before super-obscure. I'm sure they deserve some of the credit for that. Either way it's fascinating to glimpse into a winegrowing area that you've never really seen or experienced before. They used to (and still do) write great reports on Northern Italy.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Overwined posted:

which tends to write rather sparse overviews.

I don't find this to be the case at all. I just read a 4000-word (had to go back and check) piece by Monica Larner on Brunello di Montalcino, mostly concerned with how the 97 and 99s are failing to live up to their expectations and how this was difficult to admit for its proponents. If that's a sparse overview, I'm not sure I have time for an in-depth one. There are tons of articles like that on all sorts of regions by 9 active writers. Maybe IWC is qualitatively better, and I will find out for myself, but what you've said so far about WA does not really match up with my current experience of it. It's not just a list of Parker points from the Médoc.

Anyway, what are the others to try?

IWC: http://www.wineaccess.com/expert/tanzer/newhome.html
Wine Spectator: http://www.winespectator.com/

Decanter: http://www.decanter.com/ The database seems to be free if a bit limited, how does this really compare with the others?

There is obviously tons of free stuff online, I thought this was great for learning about Bordeaux: http://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/ Wish there was an identical one for Burgundy!

himajinga
Mar 19, 2003

Und wenn du lange in einen Schuh blickst, blickt der Schuh auch in dich hinein.


The trick for me is getting used to what certain (mostly non-food related) words mean when they describe a certain flavor or smell so I can translate that into whether that's what I find pleasing or not. I feel like I have definite preferences but I'm not practiced enough at picking out what the right descriptors are for those things in order to seek them out reliably. With like "diesel", or "cat pee" I definitely know those smells. Sometimes the flavor is not what I would say a lemon tastes like to me, but it's what the "lemon" flavor tastes like when people describe wine so I have to note that for later to get an idea of what a wine might taste like when it's described to me. The difference between red and dark fruit is tougher to distinguish for me, as are many of the more subtle fruit flavors in white wine with the exception of pineapple and the butter from ML. Not to say that all whites taste the same to me, far from it, but that I have a harder time putting into words what I am tasting.

In the other direction, I had a 2001 Dom. Lignier-Michelot Chambolle-Musigny Vielles Vignes, a 2008 Arch Terrace Merlot, and a 2008 Gostolai Cannonau and while all three are different grapes and from different regions of the world, they all shared this meaty, funky flavor profile that I have a hard time describing but absolutely love. I've gotten this particular flavor in every Cannonau I've had to varying degrees, but not really in other Grenache wines other than the one Vacqueyras I've tried, and sometimes I'll get it in Pinot Noir, usually old world, but I almost never get it in Merlot. I wish I could grab a bottle that tastes that way, take it to a MW and just ask "Hey what is this drat flavor so I can ask around about it?" Is it brett I wonder? Is there a wine known for being bretty that I can go buy to check?

Casu Marzu
Oct 20, 2008

I'm rude now.


Anyone able to give me some knowledge on port? Lookin for a late night sipping drink and port/sherry/madiera sound great for the winter.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


Casu Marzu posted:

Anyone able to give me some knowledge on port? Lookin for a late night sipping drink and port/sherry/madiera sound great for the winter.

What kind of port do you generally like? One of the best ports I ever had was Niepoort Colheita from a vintage I can't remember, but it was loving good. I had another vintage of it and it was still amazing.

Niepoort also makes one of my favorite white ports, though that's more of a spring thing.

drat, I guess I like me some Niepoort. Their table wines are pretty good too.

EDIT: As for sherries I had a single sip of Osborne Sibarita VOR Oloroso a couple of months ago and I can still taste it.

I found this quote in this article and it made me laugh:

quote:

Despite this admirable heritage the wine in question, the Osborne Sibarita, is not from one of Osborne's old soleras. It comes from a solera established in 1792 by Juan Haurie of the bodega known, until recently, as Pedro Domecq.

HMMPHHH This Sherry is only from the 1792 solera?!? Send it back, garcon!!!

EDIT 2: Comma splice not mine.

Overwined fucked around with this message at Nov 7, 2014 around 00:51

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


Casu Marzu posted:

Anyone able to give me some knowledge on port? Lookin for a late night sipping drink and port/sherry/madiera sound great for the winter.

Probably more trouble than it's worth, but there's a sherry bar I like going to whenever I get the chance and they have this chart of the various sherry types. Dunno if it's any help to you, but I found it useful so maybe someone else will as well.



Sorry for Japanese but the abbreviations on the chart go:
M - Manzanilla
F - Fino
MP - Manzanilla Pasada
FA - Fino Amontillado
A - Amontillado
PC - Palo Cortado
O - Oloroso
MED - Medium
P - Pale Cream
C - Cream
ME - Moscatel
PX - Pedro Ximenez

Casu Marzu
Oct 20, 2008

I'm rude now.


Overwined posted:

What kind of port do you generally like? One of the best ports I ever had was Niepoort Colheita from a vintage I can't remember, but it was loving good. I had another vintage of it and it was still amazing.


From what I've had, I lean towards the tawny ports. Currently sipping a bottle of Quinta do Noval 10yo Tawny that is quite nice.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


Casu Marzu posted:

From what I've had, I lean towards the tawny ports. Currently sipping a bottle of Quinta do Noval 10yo Tawny that is quite nice.

You should definitely check out Colheita then. It's essentially a vintage tawny port. If you see 10, 20, 30, etc on a tawny that means it's a blend of no less than the stated age. Colheitas will have a specific vintage on them.

They can be a bit more expensive than your average 10-year tawny, but they're underappreciated in the States so some are available for a good price. Quinta do Noval makes one but at a cursory glance it's a bit more expensive than Niepoort.

pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


Madeira is brilliant in this sort of context. While port, and especially tawny port, is relatively stable in bottle, Madeira puts basically all other wine to shame when it comes to being hardy when open. It's almost shelf-stable indefinitely. Fino or Manzanilla sherry starts to drop off hours after opening, and is meaningfully different a few days later. Even sweeter sherries taste radically different a week after opening. Madeira, though, is perfect for the little glass at the end of the night. You can have a few bottles open, of radically different styles, and choose between one that is dry and nutty, rich and sweet, or racy and acidic very easily.

I like Broadbent Madeiras (particularly the Sercial), and the Historic Wine Company bottles (the Bual is my favourite)

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


I'll second Madeira, the combination of long shelf life and typically a better QPR than Port or sweet Sherry IMO means it's my go-to sweet fortified. Availability can be tricky though.

himajinga posted:

In the other direction, I had a 2001 Dom. Lignier-Michelot Chambolle-Musigny Vielles Vignes, a 2008 Arch Terrace Merlot, and a 2008 Gostolai Cannonau and while all three are different grapes and from different regions of the world, they all shared this meaty, funky flavor profile that I have a hard time describing but absolutely love. I've gotten this particular flavor in every Cannonau I've had to varying degrees, but not really in other Grenache wines other than the one Vacqueyras I've tried, and sometimes I'll get it in Pinot Noir, usually old world, but I almost never get it in Merlot. I wish I could grab a bottle that tastes that way, take it to a MW and just ask "Hey what is this drat flavor so I can ask around about it?" Is it brett I wonder? Is there a wine known for being bretty that I can go buy to check?

It almost certainly is brett. If you have access, pre 2000ish Chateau de Beaucastel is a great source. Wines from Bandol are often, but not always, rank with brett. Perhaps the most reliable source, however, are natural/sulfite-free* wines from warm climate Old World producers. Yannick Pelletier is fairly widely available.

Kasumeat fucked around with this message at Nov 7, 2014 around 05:11

Casu Marzu
Oct 20, 2008

I'm rude now.


pork never goes bad posted:

Madeira is brilliant in this sort of context. While port, and especially tawny port, is relatively stable in bottle, Madeira puts basically all other wine to shame when it comes to being hardy when open. It's almost shelf-stable indefinitely. Fino or Manzanilla sherry starts to drop off hours after opening, and is meaningfully different a few days later. Even sweeter sherries taste radically different a week after opening. Madeira, though, is perfect for the little glass at the end of the night. You can have a few bottles open, of radically different styles, and choose between one that is dry and nutty, rich and sweet, or racy and acidic very easily.

I like Broadbent Madeiras (particularly the Sercial), and the Historic Wine Company bottles (the Bual is my favourite)


Kasumeat posted:

I'll second Madeira, the combination of long shelf life and typically a better QPR than Port or sweet Sherry IMO means it's my go-to sweet fortified. Availability can be tricky though.


Cool. Will have to take a look around for madeira. I can't say I've seen anything except for the super cheap stuff for cooking.

Jerome Louis
Nov 5, 2002
p

College Slice

Getting some interesting applications to become an expert taster in our wine panel. My favorite answer so far to one of the questions in our screener:

"Q10: Think about what you had for dinner last night. Please describe the meal -- how the meal tasted and what you liked about it and what you disliked about it in as much detail as possible."

"A: HOT DOGS - SALAD
I LIKES DOGS BECAUSE SMELL GOOD
I LIKE SALAD BECAUSE TASTE GOOD + SMELL GOOD"

himajinga
Mar 19, 2003

Und wenn du lange in einen Schuh blickst, blickt der Schuh auch in dich hinein.


Kasumeat posted:

It almost certainly is brett. If you have access, pre 2000ish Chateau de Beaucastel is a great source. Wines from Bandol are often, but not always, rank with brett. Perhaps the most reliable source, however, are natural/sulfite-free* wines from warm climate Old World producers. Yannick Pelletier is fairly widely available.

Awesome, what clued me in was that I've tasted other vintages of that Merlot before and they didn't taste anything like the 2008, and I've seen it on discount at a few places so I thought maybe it's "flawed", but it just turns out that it's a flaw I like in small amounts haha. Thanks for the tip!

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


Jerome Louis posted:

Getting some interesting applications to become an expert taster in our wine panel. My favorite answer so far to one of the questions in our screener:

"Q10: Think about what you had for dinner last night. Please describe the meal -- how the meal tasted and what you liked about it and what you disliked about it in as much detail as possible."

"A: HOT DOGS - SALAD
I LIKES DOGS BECAUSE SMELL GOOD
I LIKE SALAD BECAUSE TASTE GOOD + SMELL GOOD"

You sir, are a hotdog salad snob!

I like how he (it's gotta be a he) listed that salad smells and tastes good, but that hot dogs only smell good.

Seriously, though, please remove these people from the gene pool.

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pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


Casu Marzu posted:

Cool. Will have to take a look around for madeira. I can't say I've seen anything except for the super cheap stuff for cooking.

Can you get wine shipped?

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