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Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Grimey Drawer

SonicDefiance posted:

I was a pretty big fan of Wild Things. It's run by the same people who own Industry Standard, which is a) just around the corner, and b) has some pretty banging food and a compact but great wine list in its own right (at least, it did when I was there 12 months ago).

Thanks I'll definitely check it out; I enjoyed the JP Brun Amour last night and so I'm now more interested in checking out other natural stuff. Not the biggest fan of the La Clarine but thanks for the previous recommendations, thread!

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idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000


JP Brun has some great wines. If you're just dipping your toes in the Dressner portfolio has more than a few approachable natural producers as well - Domaine de la Pepiere, Domaine Baudry, and Francois Pinon are just a few to check out. Muscadet, classic Loire cab franc, and Loire chenin respectively.

Also just had a Mencia from Rias Biaxas at my local shop that got me super hyped. Strawberries, raspberries, and pyrazines for $18 a bottle. loving delicious

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Voss is internationally known for water, but I don't think that brand of water is even from Voss. Anyway, the actual place hosts Norway's - at one point Northern Europe's - best and biggest wine cellar. 40 000 bottles, at its peak 80 000. It's like a wikipedia of fine wine, everything is there.Just stacks and stacks of Burgundy, Bordeaux, Rhône, high end Riesling, Piedmont, just mind boggling. Went there for a Burg tasting, these were the wines:

- Marc Colin St. Aubin En Remilly 1er Cru 2006
- Ramonet Chassagne Montrachet Morgeot 1er Cru 2006
- Remi Jobard Mersault Genevrieres 1er Cru 2004
- Domaine Leflaive Puligny Montrachet Folatiers 1er Cru 2001
- Lucien Le Moine Bourgogne Rouge 2005
- Domaine Amiot-Servelle Chambolle Musigny 1er Cru Les Amoreuses 2004
- Jean Grivot Vosne Romanee 1er Cru Aux Chaumes 2003
- Armand Rousseau Gevrey Chambertin 1er Cru Clos St. Jacques 2000

Leflaive won the day, just an amazing wine. So elegant, yet packed a real punch, something people usually say about reds. Les Amoreuses was also a big experience for me, another taster came through with the note of the day, beetroot. So obvious when you've heard someone else say it (and which influences your thinking a lot), but even without finding words for it, it was still a bit of an epiphany for me to taste something that was so different from what I think red Burg is. Apparently a very green vintage, carrot was also mentioned. Clos St. Jacques was what I think red Burg should be, cherry, earth, style, mystery, just lovable.Those stuck out, but the other ones were good too. Lesson (re)learned. Don't touch these things until they have age.

It's kind of hard to photograph the cellar, so here's two video clips. I missed the stack of Leflaive cases and the details of Yquem, La La, Margaux and Mouton etc etc etc strewn across the floor. Mind-boggling. Excuse the moon language spoken but you get the point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xBEcUORtcw

Those are all the rooms save one, although I didn't get some of the walls which contained aforementioned stack of Leflaive and a nook filled with Supertuscan mags and double mags. Oh and the pile of sabled Krug and Dom Perignon empties outside (otherwise the cellar has been drunk pretty dry of Champagne). But the second vid is from, as the italian sommelier Francesco called it, the sancta sanctorum. Only Burgundy and shitloads of it. GC out the wazoo and a bunch of Romanee Conti as well. We talk about the prices of the bottles in the clip, first he holds a $3300 Montrachet, then the $12000 monopole. I don't know what the world's most expensive bowling ball throw is, but if you want to set a record this is a probably a place to start. I'll stand by with some sponges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYghuCwcRU0

idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000


welp. Harvest has been pushed back a tiny bit compared to the previous early trend in Cali, but it looks like it's all going to come in at once. Hoping to pick my white & rose grapes Friday night and press all Saturday long. fml x_x

the_chavi
Mar 2, 2005



Ultra Carp

I just moved back to Turkey after being gone for five years, and the wine scene is both better (local vintners are getting better/rediscovering old strains) and worse (taxation and advertising restrictions are insane) than what it was when I left in 2012. So I'm curious - does anyone have any experience with Turkish wines that are worth writing home about?

bartolimu
Nov 25, 2002



Hi Wine Thread. Among my friends, Temecula has a bit of a reputation as a haven for bachelorette parties seeking almond "champagne" in mass quantities, but I'm sure there are some good things to be found. I'll be heading there in a few weeks for a day or three. Any suggestions on places that are a little more toward the higher-quality side of things?

the_chavi
Mar 2, 2005



Ultra Carp

bartolimu posted:

almond "champagne" in mass quantities

The gently caress is that

bartolimu
Nov 25, 2002



the_chavi posted:

The gently caress is that

Garbage-tier juice from random vineyards, sweetened and spiked with almond extract, then force-carbed to a bubbly, giggle-inducing celebration libation for the Arbor Mist crowd. They call it "champagne" for extra wow-points, and also to highlight how few ethics they really have.

Like I said, I'd like to see what Temecula has to offer that isn't that poo poo. Supposedly there are some places doing interesting things with Italian varietals like Vermentino, but since my wine guy doesn't pick up much from the area I'm working on pretty low information right now.

Crimson
Nov 6, 2002


It's been several years since I've been, but I remember Doffo and Foot Path wineries being not terrible, although Doffo is hilariously overpriced.

bartolimu
Nov 25, 2002



Other sources have recommended Doffo, Cougar, Leoness, and Miramonte. And yes, from what I can see the wineries in Temecula charge double what the ones I visited in Paso Robles did for a tasting. Bottle prices seem kinda high for the relative fame of the area, and their restaurants are hilariously expensive in some cases too (a $50 lunch entree?!). On the bright side, there are breweries and maybe a distillery or two to be visited if the wineries end up being poor ROI. But I'd like to give them a fair shot. I've visited Paso, Napa/RR, and the Willamette and want to keep adding AVAs to my collection.

For that matter, are any of the spots right around San Diego any good? I've been impressed with the stuff coming up from Valle de Guadalupe in Baja, but it's nearly impossible to find north of the border and I won't have time for a day trip.

Crimson
Nov 6, 2002


Make a special trip to Valle de Guadalupe when you can. It's awesome. Very rustic, wineries down dirt roads, signs in Russian from all the Russian refugees that settled there. And there are actually some fantastic wines. Adobe Guadalupe wines are awesome, and they keep a good library on hand for purchasing. Liceaga and Emevé are also great. Frankly, the wines down there outclass Temecula in every possible way, and it's not such a lovely tourist trap. Plus, tacos.

bartolimu
Nov 25, 2002



I've been down to the Valle three times, and yes. It's a paradise. Excellent cheese, great wine, and nothing costs any money. I also try to eat at Misión 19 in TJ, because they use all Valle produce and local seafood/meat, paired with wines from Valle de Guadalupe. Javier Plascencia has done so much for Baja cuisine and Tijuana in general I always love throwing a tiny bit of money his way for obscenely well-done pairings.

A fully correct trip to Baja includes Misión 19, a stop at La Guerrerense in Ensenada, at at least enough time in the Valle to buy the best olive oil in the world, the least expensive good cheese in the world, and some incredible wine.

That said, my local guide won't be available and I don't feel like taking my newly-purchased car through TJ because driving there terrifies me, insurance supplement or no. So Temecula it is.

Saddamnit
Jul 5, 2003

I have brained my damage.

Any of you guys heard of this Naked Wines website? I got a voucher for it and I'm wondering if it's good though to by a case for $80.

idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000


bartolimu posted:

For that matter, are any of the spots right around San Diego any good? I've been impressed with the stuff coming up from Valle de Guadalupe in Baja, but it's nearly impossible to find north of the border and I won't have time for a day trip.
J.Brix is out of SD and their wines are yummy and they're both super rad people. Dunno where they're at in harvest tho depending on your timing. Los Pilares does natty pettilant and sometimes it can be crazy good and sometimes it can be funky depending on your palate.

Stitecin
Feb 6, 2004
Mayor of Stitecinopolis

I have 11 tons of Syrah still out by Santa Rosa Airport. I have never made BBQ sauce before.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Not a super reliable source, but I've heard the following are gone, so far:

Artessa
Stags Leap Winery
Stagecoach
Scribe
Darioush
Chimney Rock
Signorello
Patland
William Hill

Stay safe Cali wine goons

Edit: Seems like this list in inaccurate.

Kasumeat fucked around with this message at Oct 11, 2017 around 16:47

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


Watching this unfold is insane. This fire really only started last night? How the gently caress did it spread so fast? It's horrifying and I hope everyone stays safe. Great loss of property and, of course, tradition has already been decimated.

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008





Kasumeat posted:

Not a super reliable source, but I've heard the following are gone, so far:

Artessa
Stags Leap Winery
Stagecoach
Scribe
Darioush
Chimney Rock
Signorello
Patland
William Hill

Stay safe Cali wine goons

Anyone have sources on these? Signorello is the only one I've seen confirmed as a total loss.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


Here's an updated article about know damage so far: List of wineries damaged in the Wine Country fires

http://flip.it/-Z7XHY

Stitecin
Feb 6, 2004
Mayor of Stitecinopolis

First time online since my last post. Grower allowed us to cancel contract on the remaining syrah. Thank the gods for crop insurance.

My winery stands. I am pressing the syrah from the south facing side of the rows. (Edit: we picked it 13 days ago because it was 1.8° Brix ahead of the north facing cordon.) I now have just ~2.25 tons on skins (of 100% whole cluster carbonic syrah).

I guess my harvest is over...

Double edit: personal bitching redacted.

Stitecin fucked around with this message at Oct 11, 2017 around 06:11

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Good to hear you didn't take the hit on that Syrah. I'm surprised there's anywhere in California that hasn't harvested yet after that summer! Sorry to hear about almost everything else being awful though.

I feel so lucky to have visited Napa and Sonoma for the first time just last year.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Kasumeat posted:

Not a super reliable source, but I've heard the following are gone, so far:

Artessa
Stags Leap Winery
Stagecoach
Scribe
Darioush
Chimney Rock
Signorello
Patland
William Hill

Stay safe Cali wine goons

Edit: Seems like this list in inaccurate.

Looks like this list is on the alarmist side. Some of these wineries are reporting they're still OK, for now.

Walka Blocka Shame
Apr 30, 2006

This is fine


Doctor Rope

I live in Santa Rosa and work in St. Helena. Thankfully neither my work or home has been damaged, but today was my first time getting back into Napa and it's still looks pretty serious. These shots were taken looking west in the Oakville/Rutherford area. The first was this morning, the second and third this afternoon.

Comb Your Beard
Sep 28, 2007

Chillin' like a villian.

Kinda sad this thread is dead, I've pretty much migrated to r/wine.

Hosting Thanksgiving at my own house for the first time ever. My family aren't wine snobs, I think I'll open with some sub $20 sparkling and then just do Beaujolais. It's the new standard for that. As long as it doesn't have those banana bubblegum notes I'm gonna stock up.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


Comb Your Beard posted:

Kinda sad this thread is dead, I've pretty much migrated to r/wine.

Hosting Thanksgiving at my own house for the first time ever. My family aren't wine snobs, I think I'll open with some sub $20 sparkling and then just do Beaujolais. It's the new standard for that. As long as it doesn't have those banana bubblegum notes I'm gonna stock up.

Morgon seems to be the go-to to get away from the bubblegummy thing, although Moulin-a-Vent is also good for this. I've actually noticed that any Cru Beaujolais producer of any quality, regardless of the Cru, will not have those notes with any real prominence. I've also noticed that for a lot of wines where those notes are prevalent, whether they be French or American or wherever, that VA seems to be lurking underneath the fruitiness.

consensual poster
Sep 1, 2009



Overwined posted:

I've actually noticed that any Cru Beaujolais producer of any quality, regardless of the Cru, will not have those notes with any real prominence.

Yeah, that's pretty much true. Any decent Cru Beaujolais will not have those banana and bubblegum notes which, if I understand correctly, are primarily a result of carbonic maceration. People associate those flavors with Beaujolais because the Beaujolais Nouveau is made using that technique. Aim on spending in the $20 range and you should be just fine.

pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


So I won't claim to know the source of that note speciically. But I drink plenty of Bojo and most Cru Beaujolais that goes through carbonic doesn't have that note.

consensual poster
Sep 1, 2009



pork never goes bad posted:

So I won't claim to know the source of that note speciically. But I drink plenty of Bojo and most Cru Beaujolais that goes through carbonic doesn't have that note.

I could definitely be mistaken. I've heard it from several people that I assumed were reliable sources of info on the topic. I've also had plenty of wines that went through carbonic maceration that didn't have the bubblegum notes. However, I'm pretty sure that nearly all of the wines I've had that did taste that way went through carbonic. Maybe it's carbonic combined with other factors, like the super fast push to get it to market?

Can any of our winemaker posters shed some light on this?

pantsfree
Oct 22, 2012


I had always thought that those aromas were from various esters created during fermentation (and carbonic maceration produces more of these than conventional fermentation) and that the reason they’re so pronounced in Beaujolais nouveau is that the wine is in the bottle (and drunk) within weeks so these more volatile compounds don’t have a chance to break down.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


pork never goes bad posted:

So I won't claim to know the source of that note speciically. But I drink plenty of Bojo and most Cru Beaujolais that goes through carbonic doesn't have that note.

Pork is right. Most Crus go through some percentage of CM. However, to me they avoid those flavors/aromas somehow. Good Cru Beaujolais is surprisingly earthy and herbaceous. I would love some insight as to how and the next time I meet a Beaujolais winemaker I think I'll ask.

pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


A few nights ago I had a bottle of Arnot Roberts Gamay, which I had very high hopes for. It was good, to be sure, but definitely lacked the earthy/savory/herbaceous notes that I love and look for in good Cru. But it also lacked the sort of glouglou sense I get from less "serious" bojo. It was really disappointing, and my first miss from that producer.

nervana
Dec 9, 2010


I am visiting NYC for the weekend and want to buy a nice bottle of wine for a couple in their late 30's. They live in Chicago (as do I) and travel often, and they enjoy wine, so they've probably tried a whole bunch, but are not wine snobs. Is there anything in New York that I can buy that is decent and not readily available in Chicago? I am thinking under $100, but can go over that if needed. It doesn't have to be rare or anything, but I just want to get them something nice and show that I put some thought into it.

nervana fucked around with this message at Nov 7, 2017 around 21:58

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


nervana posted:

I am visiting NYC for the weekend and want to buy a couple in their late 30's a nice bottle of wine. They live in Chicago and travel often, and they enjoy wine often, so they've probably tried a whole bunch, but are not wine snobs. Is there anything in New York that I can buy that is decent and not readily available in Chicago? I am thinking under $100, but can go over that if needed. It doesn't have to be rare or anything, but I just want to get them something nice to show that I put some thought into it.

I once bought a 1970 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco (just their vineyard blend) for $100 from Chambers Street Wine. They specialize in older vintages and prices really weren't shabby at a.

pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


Chambers Street Wine is also just a delightful store to visit, with great staff who care.

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Grimey Drawer

Thirding Chambers Street Wine; I'll be making my annual trip to NYC for thanksgiving and will definitely swing by there.

idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000


Carbonic maceration isn't at all a set deal, which can account for the variation in wines. In a pure, full CM a tank is gassed with CO2 and full, intact, unbroken grapes (no destemming, no split skins, etc) are put into the tank such that they remain unbroken and intact. They undergo a yeast-less fermentation inside the skin until a certain (low) percentage of alcohol stops the process. The weight of grapes on top of one another eventually crush the grapes on the bottom, after which yeast colonize the juice and a normal fermentation starts.

The carbonic process is a different chemical process than yeast fermentation, so you end up with different flavors/smells. Here's the other thing, though: no matter how careful you are, you're going to get some broken grapes and juice in the bottom of your tank, sometimes just a little if the grapes are cold and firm, sometimes a whole lot if the grapes are thin-skinned and ripe. Maybe you're using a bin-dumper because shoveling 6 tons of grapes is totally unfeasible. So you might get a partial/semi-carbonic fermentation, with some of the must in the bottom of the tank going through a normal fermentation and the intact grapes in the upper portion going through some carbonic.

It's all kind of a toss-up depending on the winery and the winemaker. Generally, though, I feel you can tell when a winemaker has made a pretty good try at carbonic, It might not be "tutti-frutti" but the wine will be noticeably fruitier and lighter in certain ways.

Speaking of smells, my Albarino finally stopped stinking it up; just have to rack my Garnacha rose and I might be mostly out of the harvest woods. This loving year. I've got some Santa Ynez Grenache/Syrah that is gonna be loving banging, tho!

pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


I quite liked this post by Josh Haas of Tablas Creek on biodynamics - http://tablascreek.typepad.com/tablas/2017/11/our-skeptics-path-into-biodynamics.html

bartolimu
Nov 25, 2002




Thanks for sharing that. For years, I described biodynamic practices as "hippie voodoo bullshit," sometimes loudly in very expensive settings. And I stand by that analysis for anything involving a cow horn or homeopathic-level dilutions. But I have come to the conclusion that the benefits of the actual good farming practices encouraged in the biodynamic system outweigh my objections to hippie voodoo bullshit. When I've tasted wines from similar areas, one from a biodynamic producer and one conventional - I've generally found I prefer the biodynamic wine.

My wine guy says this is probably due more to the fact that biodynamic practices require vintners to pay much more attention to the vines day-to-day - they can catch problems before they impact the whole vineyard. I like that explanation, probably because it lets me maintain my scorn of hippie voodoo bullshit while still benefiting from the parts of their practice that have an actual impact. Whatever the case, I've grudgingly become pro-biodynamics.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


If you are diligent you'll notice that many if not most biodynamic producers opt out of the whole horn full of poo poo stuff and that the more ceremonial aspects of Biodynamicism are NOT required for AB certification.

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bartolimu
Nov 25, 2002



Per the posted article:

quote:

But it was still tremendously encouraging to learn that Demeter itself had come to the conclusion that if a winery focused on the elements that I grouped together in the “really good farming” bullet above, and made a credible effort at those I classified as “micro-additions of Biodynamic preparations” it was good enough for them.

Still gotta be a cow horn homeopath to qualify. And that's hippie voodoo bullshit.

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