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pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


I think I have to disagree with Kasumeat - 2014 was good plenty of places. Beaujolais, Loire (inc reds - I really love aged Cab Franc), a lot of Bordeaux, Provence, early Jura indications are positive, lots of Australia, some NZ, Sicily, Oregon all had good vintages. It's never really a vintage of the decade candidate, but all should produce plenty of good, ageable wine.

If I were you, I'd especially look for some Beaujolais with serious stuffing. 2014 was rocking in Beaujolais and some of the more structured bottlings should age extremely well. http://vinous.com/articles/2014-bea...intage-aug-2016 has some great insight.

Other than that, I'll echo the Savennieres and Chablis recommendations, suggest some Saumur/Chinon Cab Franc, and maybe a Coonawarra Cav Sauv or two, and maybe some good Bordeaux. I threw some links for some of these recommendations below. K&L didn't have a lot of great options, but I barely scratched the surface at Kogod. Max, the owner, is super helpful by email, and I'm sure he'd love to help you put together a half-case of ageables. I stuck to regions I know well and have drunk older wine for my recs, so they're all French, but if I were you I'd do a little research and definitely throw a good Aussie Cab on there too. It's so delicious when it's old, really special, but I just don't know enough (about sourcing OR producers) to make really good recommendations.

Some Beaujolais options:
Foillard 3.14 is an insane Beaujolais that'll easily last: https://www.kogodwine.com/collectio...ard-morgon-3-15
Metras Moulin a Vent Magnum: https://www.kogodwine.com/collectio...lin-a-vent-1-5l
Lapierre Morgon Magnum: https://www.kogodwine.com/collectio...rre-morgon-1-5l

Some Loire Cab Franc options:
Guiberteau makes long lived wines, this is a nice bottling: https://www.kogodwine.com/collectio...-les-motelles-1
The Breton's also make long lived wines, and you can try some older vintages (K&L have some, as do Kogod) if you want a sense of what you're getting into: https://www.kogodwine.com/collectio...l-clos-senechal
Clos de l'echo: http://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1321600

Others:
Ganevat Les Chalasse Marnes Bleues will live forever: https://www.kogodwine.com/collectio...s-marnes-bleues
Pontet-Canet should be good for a while, would be a strong contender for me in the vintage: http://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1322526
Joly Coulee de Serrant Savenierres will be sick in a couple decades: http://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1283574
It was also a good vintage in Provence - Trevallon is a reliable ager: https://www.kogodwine.com/collectio...allon-igp-rouge

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Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


I think buying 2014 Bojo with the plan to age it for 20-30 years, especially from natural wine producers who are known to have problems with mousiness and refermentation, is one of the worst wine buying recommendations I've ever heard, but to each his own.

pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


I really hoped to avoid this dumb slapfight again. The three specific producers I recommended don't have reputations for faults or mousiness and do have reputations for producing great ageable wine, the three bottles I linked are all sulfured, and in all three cases I've personally drunk well aged wine from that producer and enjoyed it.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Slapfight INTERCEPTED

pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


Amazing.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


I will say, I like the Australia rec. I don't feel quite as confident in that sort of ageability in the examples I've had so far from South Australia, but Western Australia had a great 2014. There are also tons of great producers bottling under screwcap, which I strongly prefer for wines I plan to age for 20+ years.

pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


I've had some really delicious older Coonawarra Cab with what might be my favorite version of the eucalyptus note you can get out of cab. I work for an Australian company and one of the founders is a wine collector with some really great and really interesting older bottles. Definitely a fan, but I'm pretty unknowledgeable and I'm not sure that America is really the right place to get that stuff.

pantsfree
Oct 22, 2012


Which Coonawarra producers would people recommend? I'm wary as I'm from South Australia, but my memory of the wine was only ever the over-extracted, manipulated stuff that Dads would drink, and that I steer clear of entirely now.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Wynn's is my go-to. Their Black Label might be, dollar for dollar, the best Cab in the world.

The Langton's Classification is an outstanding resource for Australian producers: https://www.langtons.com.au/classification
You won't find newish cult producers like Ochota Barrels and Lucy Margaux, but the classics are all there.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006



Kasumeat posted:

Wynn's is my go-to. Their Black Label might be, dollar for dollar, the best Cab in the world.

I believe you recommended this to me a while ago when my faith in Australian wine was all but vanished, and you (or whoever it was, if it wasn't you) were 100% right. What an awesome wine for a decent price.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

Kasumeat posted:

Wynn's is my go-to. Their Black Label might be, dollar for dollar, the best Cab in the world.

Ha I just drove past there today but didnít stop. Will drop in on the way home.

The Vasse Felix Filius Cab Sauv is the other reference cheap but great option.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


If Sauternes had a good vintage that year, I fail to see why any other recommendations would even be worthy of consideration outside of maybe vintage Port. Not to say anything about the quality, but for ageability, it's hard to beat Sauternes. I might even prefer it for that reason over Port because Port ages so glacially and at least with Sauternes it has several interesting new phases it gets to every half decade or so.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


It's also the most palatable option for when your child turns out to be a wine-hating Luddite!


Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

Ha I just drove past there today but didnít stop. Will drop in on the way home.

The Vasse Felix Filius Cab Sauv is the other reference cheap but great option.

Great producer, not Coonawarra though. Haven't had their Cab in a while, but Margaret River tends to be a good bit richer than Coonawarra.

Stitecin
Feb 6, 2004
Mayor of Stitecinopolis

I don't have a real plan for what to buy, but I definitely want to get more than Sauternes and Port. How do you plan a birthday meal pairing with just those?

There is of course a possibility he'll be a wine hating Luddite, but at the age of not quite 3 he knows how to do punchdowns and comes over to smell every glass I pour so it seems unlikely.

I have a good frien who runs a wine shop in Canberra coming to visit in April, so obscure Aussie wine isn't a problem to get.

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Grimey Drawer

Stitecin posted:

I don't have a real plan for what to buy, but I definitely want to get more than Sauternes and Port. How do you plan a birthday meal pairing with just those?

There is of course a possibility he'll be a wine hating Luddite, but at the age of not quite 3 he knows how to do punchdowns and comes over to smell every glass I pour so it seems unlikely.

I have a good frien who runs a wine shop in Canberra coming to visit in April, so obscure Aussie wine isn't a problem to get.

Just get Champagne, it goes with everything.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Furious Lobster posted:

Just get Champagne, it goes with everything.

This advice goes with most questions in this thread as well. My #1 wine matching rule is "when in doubt, Champagne".

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

Kasumeat posted:

Great producer, not Coonawarra though. Haven't had their Cab in a while, but Margaret River tends to be a good bit richer than Coonawarra.

Yeah sorry I should have clarified. The more expensive Vasse Felix stuff is delicious too but the Filius is a crowd pleaser.

Stitecin posted:

I have a good frien who runs a wine shop in Canberra coming to visit in April, so obscure Aussie wine isn't a problem to get.

In that case if you want something to age and you donít mind the Big Barossa Shiraz style you could try to get some of the appropriate John Duval Eligo (former Grange winemaker makes Shiraz from some of the best vines in the Barossa, kind of bad vintage proof in my opinion), Rockford Basket Press (traditional methods as the name suggests) or Hentley Farm Clos Otto (super jammy if you donít mind that). These are all pretty safe conventional recommendations but probably harder to get outside Australia.

Stitecin
Feb 6, 2004
Mayor of Stitecinopolis

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

...These are all pretty safe conventional recommendations but probably harder to get outside Australia.

I worked two harvests in the Barossa at Torbrek and Two Hands, I like that inky ketchupy over ripe poo poo sometimes. I have a 2003 Basket Press under my house that should be drunk soon. Good call there, maybe Rockford's sparkling shriaz for a curveball.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

Stitecin posted:

I worked two harvests in the Barossa at Torbrek and Two Hands, I like that inky ketchupy over ripe poo poo sometimes. I have a 2003 Basket Press under my house that should be drunk soon. Good call there, maybe Rockford's sparkling shriaz for a curveball.

Nice one, I partly grew up in the Barossa so thatís the default Shiraz profile for me. Torbrek and Two Hands as both good too, although some of the Torbreck pricing is kind of crazy. Iíll be up there there next week, probably going to hit Rockford, Michael Hall, Langmeil, Kabminye, maybe Kaesler? I should actually go to some places I havenít been before this time.

Crimson
Nov 6, 2002


You haven't really lived until you've had old Clarendon Hills Grenache. I like my acid driven, elegant wines as much as the next hipster douchebag sommelier, but drat that wine is pure hedonism at its best.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006



Ola posted:

This advice goes with most questions in this thread as well. My #1 wine matching rule is "when in doubt, Champagne".

Seriously. I mean, salt and vinegar chips? Yep, delicious with Champagne! I was also surprised to discover that other people had independently made that exact same discovery.

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Grimey Drawer

I've been slowly learning about German wines, specifically GGs and I was curious if anyone had an opinion of the Donnhoff offerings? Is price the best denominator to guide a newbie through this area? I've only had the Hermanshole GG '12, '14 and '15 but saw some friends really enjoying '14 Delchen so, I think I'll try to assemble all of their wines from a specific vintage to establish some kind of baseline.

nervana
Dec 9, 2010


Do you guys have recommendations for any crowd pleasing wines at Trader Joes? Something under 10$ish so I can buy several and take to a small Nye party.

consensual poster
Sep 1, 2009



Furious Lobster posted:

I've been slowly learning about German wines, specifically GGs and I was curious if anyone had an opinion of the Donnhoff offerings? Is price the best denominator to guide a newbie through this area? I've only had the Hermanshole GG '12, '14 and '15 but saw some friends really enjoying '14 Delchen so, I think I'll try to assemble all of their wines from a specific vintage to establish some kind of baseline.

Donnhoff is one of the best wineries in Germany and they make some very good Grosses Gewachs. Their overall reputation, and the additional demand that attracts, means that you will probably pay quite a bit more for their GG's than others of similar quality. They are a safe bet to make you happy if you don't mind spending the money on them. The Dellchen and Felsenberg GG's have been more approachable when young than the Hermanshole in my limited experience, so if you want to see if Donnhoff GG's are in your wheelhouse, it might be best to start there. Price will not necessarily be the best indicator for enjoying a young GG since these are wines that aren't structured to drink young. Give them some air and time to open up before you drink them.

Kalenden
Oct 30, 2012


For New Year's, my companion and I have ordered a menu and we are now looking to combine beverages with the courses of the menu. Generally, we have an extensive wine cellar and also beverages outside of wine (such as champagne, spirits, etc).

I was wondering if some goons could help suggest a potential list of good matches with one or more courses, that would be phenomenal. We have no strong preferences in wine but would like to start with a champagne as aperitif at the very least (since it is New Year's). My mind was thinking of something like an aperitif, a white wine, a red wine, and something to match with the dessert. What do you think?

The menu is as follows (pictures are here: https://www.facebook.com/restaurant...514727205230627 )

(1) Lobster, couscous, crispy vegetables, lemon, dressing of apple curry
(2) Fish Soup (red mullet), mussels, clams, scallop, saffron potato - fennel - focaccia toast with rouille
(3) "Casserole" of grilled prawns and sea salted cod
tomato - sweet peppers - stroganoff sauce
(4) "Mechelse" Cuckoo (poultry)
cream and crisp salsify - pear stewed in red wine - gravy with cranberries
(5)"Tumbler" with chocolate and passion fruit
Soesje - sponge cake - macaron - biscuits crumble

We'd like to do a Champagne with 1, a white with 2&3, a red with 4 and a dessert beverage (anything goes) with 5.

Haven't gone into my main wine stock yet (vacation) so this it was not as easy to match (and impossible in some cases but did a best-effort) but a potential idea:

(1). Champagne Summertime Blanc de Blancs

(2&3). Argiolas Vermentino di Sardegna 2016

(4). Nuits-Saint-Georges 1er Cru 'Aux Murgers' 2006 (Red Burgundy) (alternatively: Rioja Norte 2008)

(5). Sauternes 1er Cru Classe 1981 Chateau de Rayne Vigneau

Once I am back (right in time for NYE!), I'll have more options available which I can apply if these are less-suited.

Crimson
Nov 6, 2002


quote:

beverages outside of wine (such as champagne

Eh em!! Champagne is wine, sir! It just happens to be bubbly wine.

1. I had to Google Champagne Summertime. I was positive that was knock-off garbage, and was surprised to find it was actually from Pommery. Could be good, as long as that apple curry isn't too intense. It sounds like that wine has a nice richness to it, with a pretty high dosage of 10g/l. Should be able to stand up to that sauce. Drier styles of Champagne sound like they might be pretty bad here.

2. Vermentino is an excellent choice. Hard to imagine a better idea. If you go to the other side of Italy, Verdicchio would also be fun. If you're feeling ballsy, Sarterelli's Balciana is one of my favorite Italian whites.
Typically has a little noble rot, giving it a big texture and some saffron notes that would probably be amazing with those dishes.

3. With the amount of sweet flavors in your main dish, I personally wouldn't recommend an austere Burgundy. Pears in red wine and cranberries are going to carry a lot of sweetness. The Rioja I'd think would be the much better choice out of the two you listed. Maybe a more delicate style of Zin, like Storybook? If Burgundy is your thing, perhaps go with a riper year than 06, like 05 or 09. Or even 2015. Or you could stray a bit south and do Beaujolais. I think a good Cru Beaujolais could also work extremely well here.

4. If there's fruit on the dish, I usually prefer Tokaji over Sauternes. Tokaji has a lot more acidity, so even though it's sweet it'll stay really fresh with desserts with fruit. Frankly, Tokaji is the most versatile dessert pairing wine.

Kalenden
Oct 30, 2012


Thanks for the reply!

I have access to my main stock now and I'll definitely keep the champagne and Vermentino.

For (4), might https://www.vivino.com/wineries/dom...sne-romane-2005 be better suited? I have that one on my eye for a long time!

For (5), no Tokaji's unfortunately. We also discounted the Sauterne option, since we are unlikely to finish the bottle and it does not keep.
What would you think of a Madeira? E.g., https://www.vivino.com/wineries/d-o...a-verdelho-1966

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Grimey Drawer

Just an FYI, '15 Juge allocations are out in the US at least. I managed to get one from Gary's in NJ.

Crimson
Nov 6, 2002


Kalenden posted:

For (4), might https://www.vivino.com/wineries/dom...sne-romane-2005 be better suited? I have that one on my eye for a long time!

For (5), no Tokaji's unfortunately. We also discounted the Sauterne option, since we are unlikely to finish the bottle and it does not keep.
What would you think of a Madeira? E.g., https://www.vivino.com/wineries/d-o...a-verdelho-1966

That's a massive step up in quality for the Burgundy, haha. I would absolutely recommend that Liger Belair.

How long would you expect the Sauternes to last before you could finish it? Sauternes doesn't go south for perhaps a couple weeks. The high amount of sugar makes it harder for oxygen to interact with the wine. I regularly serve Sauternes that's been open 3-4 weeks, always tasting it to make sure it's still all good.

That being said, Madeira is also really versatile. It's going to be less sweet, and more pungent and tart than the Sauternes by a mile. Instead of candied apricots and orange marmalade, picture tart salted caramel. Could be good with that dish, especially if your group likes Madeira. I find a lot of women in particular don't care for the taste, but if they're familiar with the style then I say go for it.

Kalenden
Oct 30, 2012


Yes, excited that I remembered that one!

I think the people here would prefer a Madeira, so we will go with that.

Thanks for the advice, I'm looking forward to this evening.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Madeira is a great choice. Make sure you stay away from Sercial and Verdelho grapes though, they'll be too dry for dessert. All other styles will work nicely.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


Wine in China is always weird, but I observed something you all might find entertaining. This is Apothic Red (courtesy of Gallo) on the shelf of an airport wine shop in Shanghai, listed for the equivalent ~$86. The shrink wrap? Why it's to protect the precious label while you age this for decades in your personal wine cellar. Not pictured: the 2007 Lafite on a nearby shelf, selling for many thousands of dollars

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Skooms
Nov 5, 2009


Crimson posted:

That's a massive step up in quality for the Burgundy, haha. I would absolutely recommend that Liger Belair.


I just have to emphasis this. I'm such a sucker for liger belair. If this guy likes wine, he should really do a lil studying.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


I'm going to be at Swan Valley in Australia the next few days, are there any must visit wineries around there?

Stringent fucked around with this message at Jan 5, 2018 around 07:51

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


I've got Sittella and Talijancich at the top of the list, anything else that deserves priority?

syntaxfunction
Oct 27, 2010


I had a bit of a wine win over Christmas. I have a buddy who'll gladly drink almost anything (bar things like Campari) but with wine he's always stuck with whites. He gels with whites, but he never had a red he liked. To be fair, most reds we had were in the <AU$15 range which gets you pretty basic Aussie reds. Lots of shiraz, alcohol and red fruit, nothing amazing.

Well just before Christmas we bought and cracked open a bottle of this. Not super expensive but we were making bolognese so it fit. He said it was the first red that tasted like he thought red wines should. Kind of earthy, still fruity, but some herbs.

I know this stuff is probably offensive to the real coin-a-sewers but man did it feel good to finally crack that egg. He's actually been talking about trying other reds too now.

Also last week we sampled four bottles of "clearskin" whites. One was meh, one was too fruity but drinkable (Moscato of course), one was actually pretty decent if simple and one made me want to vomit after a mouthful. Not hyperbole either. I just felt nauseous instantly. My friend drank a glass and said it wasn't great but he didn't feel sick. I think it might have been a bad bottle? I've never had a flat out bad one before.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006



syntaxfunction posted:

I had a bit of a wine win over Christmas. I have a buddy who'll gladly drink almost anything (bar things like Campari) but with wine he's always stuck with whites. He gels with whites, but he never had a red he liked. To be fair, most reds we had were in the <AU$15 range which gets you pretty basic Aussie reds. Lots of shiraz, alcohol and red fruit, nothing amazing.

Well just before Christmas we bought and cracked open a bottle of this. Not super expensive but we were making bolognese so it fit. He said it was the first red that tasted like he thought red wines should. Kind of earthy, still fruity, but some herbs.

I know this stuff is probably offensive to the real coin-a-sewers but man did it feel good to finally crack that egg. He's actually been talking about trying other reds too now.

It sounds like he hates the typical Australian style of red, which is completely understandable to me because I hate it too. Other things he'll probably not enjoy are: any red wine from California. He'd probably enjoy many/most Italian reds, and quite possibly a lot of other European wines. They tend, in my experience, to have a bit more of the earthy and herbaceous flavours instead of just alcohol and fruit.

There's never anything wrong with drinking a good Chianti Classico, for connoisseur or novice alike. Chianti got a bad reputation because there are a relatively large number of producers going for quantity over quality, but within the Classico designation (which is the traditional production area, before it was expanded to allow for increased volume production) there are a lot of wines well worth drinking.

PT6A fucked around with this message at Jan 9, 2018 around 17:35

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



I have the chance to order some red Juras with a bit of age soon, but I'm not sure which one(s) to go for.

1 Rolet Poulsard Vieilles Vignes
2 Rolet Trousseau
3 Rolet Arbois Memorial

All 1999 in magnums.

Gut says 1, brain says 3. I might order 2 bottles of one type if one is much better, or two types, but all three is a bit too much money. Tips gratefully received.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


I never really "got" old Poulsard. It just seems like the perfect early-drinking red to me, why age it? Yet I see it more often as a back-vintage release than any other Jura red. I honestly think they're just intentionally being contrarian, as the Jurassiens are wont to be.

I'm not familiar with the producer, but generally I tend to find Jura red blends superior to the varietal wines, so I agree with your brain.

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Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

I had my first Jura over Christmas with some roast duck, it managed to be a red wine that went with Asian food which is non trivial. It was a 2014 Francois Rousset-Martin Trousseu and I want to drink more of it so I guess the Trousseau is my slightly useless vote based on my sample size of one.

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