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Schneider Heim
Oct 17, 2012


Yeah, we're pretty much the biggest brandy market in the world. I'm just curious if it's A Thing elsewhere. I'll have to finish this bottle first before I can justify another one, though.

Fundador is like $10 and tastes great. My friend who likes brandies more than I do prefers it to Cognacs and stuff.

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Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Grimey Drawer

Had a crazy good domestic white wine tonight for dinner: Walter Scott X Novo ‘16 Chardonnay. Tastes and has a nose like a 1er white burgundy; if I had it blind, I’d totally put it down as a Roulot, given how great the overall experience is.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


From our mutual friend? I quite liked it when he poured it blind at that dinner, although I admit my first thought wasn't Burgundy but rather Rhone because of the fatness / lower acid. Then again I'm a terrible blind taster

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Grimey Drawer

got off on a technicality posted:

From our mutual friend? I quite liked it when he poured it blind at that dinner, although I admit my first thought wasn't Burgundy but rather Rhone because of the fatness / lower acid. Then again I'm a terrible blind taster

Yep, usually has good recs especially for the domestic ones. I've been trying to get it wholesale but the retail price of $60~ is pretty decent.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



A new acquaintance:


https://www.chateaudebellet.com/en/vins.php

Château de Bellet, cuvée Baron G. It was the Bellet AOC that caught my eye on the shelf, had never heard about if before. Turns out it's in Provence. This is 5% Chardonnay and 95% Rolle, a new grape for me. Reminds me of warm vintage Chablis, with a bit of oak, tropical fruit, but real acidic structure and some saline, marine mystery. Quite complex as well, I've got nutmeg, pineapple, almonds, bit of barnyard on opening, lots of stuff going on. Funny bottle shape as well. Expensive for Provence at over $40, but worth it IMO.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Rolle is vermentino. It's normally very neutral and fairly flabby, cool that you managed to find an example that's neither.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Kasumeat posted:

Rolle is vermentino. It's normally very neutral and fairly flabby, cool that you managed to find an example that's neither.

It's definitely fat, pleasingly so, I was quite convinced it was viognier until I googled it. Perhaps the 5% Chardonnay is sorely needed acidity.

By the way, vermentino triggers my linguistics nerd receptors, it has to be from some greek/latin thing that means "something that ferments".

idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000


Haha, I was trying to remember why rolle was so familiar. Corsican Vermentino is the poo poo, btw. Antoine Arena is like the wine godfather of Corsica and his Vermentino plus his Corsican reds are great. I think Kermit Lynch imports it, so it shouldn’t be that hard to find.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

I had a bottle of vigne vecchie mascalese volcano juice last week and I highly recommend it as a place sort of near corscica I guess

Jerome Louis
Nov 5, 2002
p

College Slice

Any recommendations on wineries to check out near Santa Rosa? We're going to be staying there next week and my wife wants to do a tour or two. We like weird/funky stuff but I think she would also like to see a big fancy winery.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

Any recommendations for a good entry point to Sauternes QPR wise? I'm getting offers for 2015 375ml Yquem but I could get a magnum of Prum Auslese GK for the same price. Obviously Yquem has brand price inflation, just wondering if there is a better option for someone who is just at the curious stage.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

Any recommendations for a good entry point to Sauternes QPR wise? I'm getting offers for 2015 375ml Yquem but I could get a magnum of Prum Auslese GK for the same price. Obviously Yquem has brand price inflation, just wondering if there is a better option for someone who is just at the curious stage.

Castelnau de Suduirat.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


De Fargues, owned by the Lur Saluces family, which used to own Yquem before they sold to LVMH

Also consider older Rieussec, which can be quite affordable. I suggest 1983, 1986, 1988

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

Ta guys, both of these are pretty easy to get hold of.

Skooms
Nov 5, 2009


Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

Any recommendations for a good entry point to Sauternes QPR wise? I'm getting offers for 2015 375ml Yquem but I could get a magnum of Prum Auslese GK for the same price. Obviously Yquem has brand price inflation, just wondering if there is a better option for someone who is just at the curious stage.

Chateau Gilette makes great wines, and does extended aging in house - most (maybe all?) wines are library release. Also aged in concrete so not intensely oak - y and in my opinion tend to be fresher for it.

Crimson
Nov 6, 2002


Skooms posted:

Chateau Gilette makes great wines, and does extended aging in house - most (maybe all?) wines are library release. Also aged in concrete so not intensely oak - y and in my opinion tend to be fresher for it.

That's all true and I absolutely love Gilette, but he asked for entry level. Gilette may be second only to Yquem in price. I'm struggling to think of anyone in between those two. Maybe some prestige cuvées like L'Extravagant or something.

Skooms
Nov 5, 2009


Crimson posted:

That's all true and I absolutely love Gilette, but he asked for entry level. Gilette may be second only to Yquem in price. I'm struggling to think of anyone in between those two. Maybe some prestige cuvées like L'Extravagant or something.

Ok fair enough. For the price great wine! better to drink riesling anyways

-I will try again! Chateau Coutet is awesome! Pretty fresh style too and they label as Barsac which is neat.

Skooms fucked around with this message at May 27, 2018 around 17:51

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

Skooms posted:

better to drink riesling anyways

This is pretty much what I've been doing Generally speaking though in AU you can't get back vintage rieslings very easily though, whereas I can walk into a decent bottle shop and see a 2009 Coutet per your suggestion.

I brought home some VDP Auction 2015 Prum on the last trip to Europe, now I just have to wait 20 years.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

This is pretty much what I've been doing Generally speaking though in AU you can't get back vintage rieslings very easily though, whereas I can walk into a decent bottle shop and see a 2009 Coutet per your suggestion.

To the above point it's probably worth your while to taste through Sauternes vs. Barsac as they're pretty distinct. I personally much prefer the former (Yquem, Rieussec, Fargues), which tends to be heavier and richer, whereas the latter (Climens, Coutet) is a zippier, more refreshing style. I also suggest looking for some Huet Moelleux to compare, though I'm not a fan myself

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

I brought home some VDP Auction 2015 Prum on the last trip to Europe, now I just have to wait 20 years.

Nice; attending the Grosser Ring auction is on my bucket list

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Went to a fun tasting yesterday, Chablis and seafood at the Bergen aquarium, featuring Clotilde Davenne, who is just as classic a French winemaking lady as they come. We got her Cremant de Bourgogne as aperitif, the four levels of Chablis in ascending order with oysters and scallops, and Saint Bris with a spot of fish soup last. I don't care if science says minerality is fake or if mentioning it is bannable in this thread, holy balls the chalkiness.

Incredible match with oysters, even for a seafood sissy like me. When you think "oh god I am eating sea slime" you just flush it down with a spot of Chab and it's handled perfectly. Scallop roe was a very interesting experience. It kind of looked like a cartoon chili. The outer surface was slightly tough to chew through, then the center was hollow with a viscous fluid inside. A bit like confectionary in a very weird way. Lovely texture, very sea-like taste that tipped me over on "oh god sea slime", spot of Chab, no problem.

Perhaps the Saint Bris hammered home the minerality point, whatever it is, the most. It was most def Sauv Blanc, very green and acidic at that, but with a very stony, chalky sensation. It smelled like blackcurrant bush and sunbaked stone. No ripe fruit or catpiss, but it was 2016 and I think whatever survived the hail was quite cool that year. Clotilde spoke of the hail as if it was a near relative's untimely death, and I often wasn't sure if she was saying "hell" or "hail". The real French winemaking lady deal.

The setting was very cool, in a rotunda with display tanks featuring some prime examples of Norwegian marine fauna. Some of them were absolute beasts, particularly the saithe which could probably eat a child. But the halibut where "tiny" compared to the biggest wild ones, only 15--ish lbs. Nice culinary size. I made a joke to the table about ordering from the tanks as if they were lobster tanks, nobody got it.




(Clotilde has not got a sandy bottom)

Getting some Botticelli's Venus vibes from this whopper of a scallop:




This wolffish just can't today:




But the wolffish barbershop quartet is in full business as usual.

Crimson
Nov 6, 2002


Very cool tasting, love her wines. Regarding "minerality", it's fairly well understood at this point that even though you aren't getting trace minerals literally tracked up through the vine and into the grapes, different soil types produce grape musts with differing levels of nutrients. The unique ways in which a particular soil makes a must consistently deficient in certain ways causes the yeast to stress in consistent ways, making them produce different volatile sulfur compounds because they freak out a little bit. So just to be clear, you're not tasting blue slate from a Mosel Riesling, you're tasting the way the yeasts react and stress to the type of musts you get from blue slate grown grapes. So minerality is very real, it's just not trace amounts of actual rocks in your glass. This is one reason why grapes grown on very fertile soils make lovely wine. The yeasts are happy and don't produce various compounds that enhance flavor and aroma.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Nice explanation!

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Crimson posted:

Very cool tasting, love her wines. Regarding "minerality", it's fairly well understood at this point that even though you aren't getting trace minerals literally tracked up through the vine and into the grapes, different soil types produce grape musts with differing levels of nutrients. The unique ways in which a particular soil makes a must consistently deficient in certain ways causes the yeast to stress in consistent ways, making them produce different volatile sulfur compounds because they freak out a little bit. So just to be clear, you're not tasting blue slate from a Mosel Riesling, you're tasting the way the yeasts react and stress to the type of musts you get from blue slate grown grapes. So minerality is very real, it's just not trace amounts of actual rocks in your glass. This is one reason why grapes grown on very fertile soils make lovely wine. The yeasts are happy and don't produce various compounds that enhance flavor and aroma.

Is it just yeast though? If so, you could theoretically inoculate (with a diverse sample of ambient yeast) to create minerality; and the opposite would be true, where wines inoculated with many commercial yeasts are never mineral, but I don't think either is true.

Crimson
Nov 6, 2002


Kasumeat posted:

Is it just yeast though? If so, you could theoretically inoculate (with a diverse sample of ambient yeast) to create minerality; and the opposite would be true, where wines inoculated with many commercial yeasts are never mineral, but I don't think either is true.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying. Certainly neither of those two extremes is true. It's not just the yeast, it's the interplay between the yeast and how it reacts to the structure and nutrient levels in the must. Commercial yeasts can get stressed too and produce those same compounds. Although if the commercial yeast is a more durable, stronger strain then yes, it might theoretically produce less of these compounds than a weaker ambient yeast. There is a lot at play in fermentation, you definitely couldn't just say ambient yeast gives minerality, commercial yeast doesn't.

Dr. Jamie Goode's Science of Wine has a great section on this. Excellent book.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Ah I understand what you're saying. Does that mean he believes that non-yeast microorganisms in soil are not a significant factor?

Stitecin
Feb 6, 2004
Mayor of Stitecinopolis

Crimson posted:

I'm trying to understand what you're saying. Certainly neither of those two extremes is true. It's not just the yeast, it's the interplay between the yeast and how it reacts to the structure and nutrient levels in the must. Commercial yeasts can get stressed too and produce those same compounds. Although if the commercial yeast is a more durable, stronger strain then yes, it might theoretically produce less of these compounds than a weaker ambient yeast. There is a lot at play in fermentation, you definitely couldn't just say ambient yeast gives minerality, commercial yeast doesn't.

Dr. Jamie Goode's Science of Wine has a great section on this. Excellent book.

Scott Lab’s BRG claims to increase Minerality. I have never used it, but selected strains typically deliver on their claims to an extent.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006



Well, this isn't good.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...ual-misconduct/

I know his name came up a few times in this thread.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Yeah, I'm really sad to hear this. He is all-but-singlehandedly responsible for establishing Prince Edward County as the most exciting emerging wine region in the world, and considered by many to make the best wines in Canada. I'd say without hesitation they're the best I've had from the New World. He was also one of the few winemakers who gave me the time of day long before I was in a buying position. Rumours did start to circulate recently, but I never heard a thing until the past couple of months, and I know several people who worked at the winery regularly.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004


Also:

https://twitter.com/vinography/stat...453639222476801

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now


Cybernetic Crumb

Time to pour out a good portion of one rack. What an rear end in a top hat.

Comb Your Beard
Sep 28, 2007

Chillin' like a villian.

Subjunctive posted:

Time to pour out a good portion of one rack. What an rear end in a top hat.

I would still drink it.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now


Cybernetic Crumb

Yeah, that’s what my girlfriend convinced me of.

ROJO
Jan 14, 2006

One day, I will ascend from this dreary existence and rule the meatbags




Oven Wrangler

Alright wine thread, I apologize in advance for the inane questions.

Anyways, we're getting to the point where we have enough wine sitting around before we drink it that i'm becoming concerned with how it's stored. I've started attempting to research wine coolers, and have walked away thinking almost every wine cooler that isn't sub $1k is a piece of crap that will last 6 months, makes more noise than your A/C unit, or will likely turn into a heater and boil your wine. So I came to the goons to see if there were any recommendations or consensus on reliable brands in the smaller capacity and sub-$1k range (preferably sub-$500).

Our wine mix is about 40% sparkling, 20% whites, 40% reds (mostly pinot noir, the rest syrah or cab). I was initially thinking dual zone coolers (so the whites and sparklings could be kept closer to serving temp) - but now I'm thinking the best option is shoot for a single zone to hold them all at a storage temp (~55F right?), and know I need to chill things the rest of the way before serving if the wine calls for it. Realistically i'm looking for something between 24-36 bottles of actual storage, but because a large fraction is in sparkling bottles, from what I've seen that will significantly eat at the capacity depending on the shelving setup. Free-standing is fine for now - it will just be sitting in the living room for the next few years at least. Because it will be in living space (albeit a secondary one), I would rather it not sound like a freight train, but based on my past experience working with them in a design capacity, I understand the limits of thermoelectrics (our house is usually conditioned to at least be under 76 degrees in the hottest months).

Don't know what else I've left out (or what I've goofed up already) - but any direction or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Grimey Drawer

ROJO posted:

Alright wine thread, I apologize in advance for the inane questions.

Anyways, we're getting to the point where we have enough wine sitting around before we drink it that i'm becoming concerned with how it's stored. I've started attempting to research wine coolers, and have walked away thinking almost every wine cooler that isn't sub $1k is a piece of crap that will last 6 months, makes more noise than your A/C unit, or will likely turn into a heater and boil your wine. So I came to the goons to see if there were any recommendations or consensus on reliable brands in the smaller capacity and sub-$1k range (preferably sub-$500).

Our wine mix is about 40% sparkling, 20% whites, 40% reds (mostly pinot noir, the rest syrah or cab). I was initially thinking dual zone coolers (so the whites and sparklings could be kept closer to serving temp) - but now I'm thinking the best option is shoot for a single zone to hold them all at a storage temp (~55F right?), and know I need to chill things the rest of the way before serving if the wine calls for it. Realistically i'm looking for something between 24-36 bottles of actual storage, but because a large fraction is in sparkling bottles, from what I've seen that will significantly eat at the capacity depending on the shelving setup. Free-standing is fine for now - it will just be sitting in the living room for the next few years at least. Because it will be in living space (albeit a secondary one), I would rather it not sound like a freight train, but based on my past experience working with them in a design capacity, I understand the limits of thermoelectrics (our house is usually conditioned to at least be under 76 degrees in the hottest months).

Don't know what else I've left out (or what I've goofed up already) - but any direction or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Consider offsite cold storage for your long term wine. Fairly comparable to ones own cellar in terms of your energy bill & initial cost.

ROJO
Jan 14, 2006

One day, I will ascend from this dreary existence and rule the meatbags




Oven Wrangler

Furious Lobster posted:

Consider offsite cold storage for your long term wine. Fairly comparable to ones own cellar in terms of your energy bill & initial cost.

We don't really have long term wine (which I assume is >6-12 months), and based on my usage and my understanding of off-site storage (which could be wrong), I think I definitely want the convenience of storage at my own house. We are definitely more impromptu drinkers and I don't want to have to have planned out our wine drinking a day in advance. Feel free to correct me if it seems I am missing something about off-site storage. Sorry for being a noob about this.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

ROJO posted:

We don't really have long term wine (which I assume is >6-12 months), and based on my usage and my understanding of off-site storage (which could be wrong), I think I definitely want the convenience of storage at my own house. We are definitely more impromptu drinkers and I don't want to have to have planned out our wine drinking a day in advance. Feel free to correct me if it seems I am missing something about off-site storage. Sorry for being a noob about this.

Understand wanting stuff close to you, but you will pay a big price penalty for convenience. I have about 250 bottles, and the cost of a decent wine fridge would pay for 15 years of offsite storage. Can you get a cheap 24 or 48 bottle fridge off craigslist or whatever to keep as a local buffer and send everything else away?

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Cybernetic Crumb

^^^ that offsite storage comment is VERY location dependent. My brother also uses an offsite place for overflow and it's cheap as hell out in California. Local here in Minnesota when we were looking for places for dad to keep his wine anything over a case or two in storage was absurdly expensive.

ROJO posted:

So I came to the goons to see if there were any recommendations or consensus on reliable brands in the smaller capacity and sub-$1k range (preferably sub-$500).

My brother uses a very simple method: PID controllers and a standard box freezer. Just powers it on and off on demand and keeps everything nice and temperature controlled. Only downside is that it's a pita to get to the stuff at the bottom if you're trying to dig up a specific box.

He said this is the pid he got:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002EAL5...2T1_SC_3p_dp_i1

He's a winemaker and stores many cases of personal runs he's done at the winery in em and has had great success, as has my dad who's stolen the idea from him

pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


I get the impression that the concern is cooking a decent bottle of local bubbly designed to drink in the next few years when you store it for 9 months in a hot house. The advice so far is good if you're storing wine for years (I use off-site storage in the east bay for longer term aging, and love it for what it is - I add and pick up wine about two or three times per year and otherwise buy for immediate consumption or store under a year in my closet and try to let nothing go more than two months in the July-September period). If you mostly buy wine for consumption within twelve months of purchase or in that ballpark, then I'd look at Wirecutter reviews and go with their suggestion.

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wine-fridges/

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

Azhais posted:

^^^ that offsite storage comment is VERY location dependent. My brother also uses an offsite place for overflow and it's cheap as hell out in California. Local here in Minnesota when we were looking for places for dad to keep his wine anything over a case or two in storage was absurdly expensive.

fair enough, I'm in Australia where everything is expensive so I figured that was a high watermark. For reference I pay about $30 AUD a month for storage of 220 bottles (including some boxed magnums and other assorted funny shapes). A good quality wine fridge plus + electricity for ten years is around 6k AUD.

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Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Cybernetic Crumb

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

fair enough, I'm in Australia where everything is expensive so I figured that was a high watermark. For reference I pay about $30 AUD a month for storage of 220 bottles (including some boxed magnums and other assorted funny shapes). A good quality wine fridge plus + electricity for ten years is around 6k AUD.

Yeah, that's $45/mo around here assuming you didn't actually want to store ALL 220, and $85/mo if you did

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