Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


Ola posted:

Speaking of, the guy holding the tasting was Geir, the owner of Autentico and Unico Real Wines.

Cool, they have a huge portfolio. Did any one the wines stand out?

At least they're not called Mousy Wines ;p

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



thotsky posted:

Cool, they have a huge portfolio. Did any one the wines stand out?

At least they're not called Mousy Wines ;p

The two I bought stood out for me:

http://www.autentico.no/varekatalog/11552701/marguet-shaman-grand-cru

http://www.autentico.no/varekatalog/11552801/marguet-les-crayres-grand-cru-2014

I can vouch for the tasting notes in the links. It was really fascinating with red Hardanger apples in both and rose petals in the second. I recommend you try Shaman, at 549 NOK it's not too much more than regular champagne but a huge jump in quality IMO.

It was also interesting to taste Leclerc Briant Blanc de Meuniers. I've tasted a 100% Pinot Meunier before, but it was ho hum. This was very interesting, but not striking enough to defend the 1500 NOK price, at least with my budget.

The other ones we got, all great but also a bit too high P/Q:

http://www.autentico.no/varekatalog/1483801/ulysse-collin-les-maillons-blanc-de-noirs-extra-brut
http://www.autentico.no/varekatalog/9645801/vouette-sorbee-blanc-dargile-extra-brut
http://www.autentico.no/varekatalog/11497701/leclerc-briant-les-basses-prieres-hautvillers-1er-cru

We also got Charles Heidsieck Brut as the reference wine. You can say it stood out as well. I really like Heidsieck, but it did not do well against the competition!

thalweg
Aug 26, 2019


thotsky posted:

I have read no science to support this, but even if this is sound wine making practice it would hardly be the end of the story. The THP production pathway for Lactic Acid Bacteria does not seem to rely on glucose and fructose, but does just fine with ethanol and it is not the only organism producing the stuff. Brettanomyces activity (which does have a THP production pathway using glucose and fructose) should not be discounted. There is a lot not yet known about mouse, but if one had to point to a single reductive cause for the prevalence of mouse in natural wine I would put my money on reduced sulfite usage. I also suspect mouse would be less of an issue if producers just sat on their bottles for another year, it does age out, most of the time.

I agree with his sentiment though. I send back anything with even a hint of it. Poorly named Norwegian wine importers aside, this seems to be an accepted stance. I wish I could say the same for VA, which I think people tolerate way too much of.

This is a really interesting post, thanks! Mouse has bothered me for years and it's the kind of thing that makes me feel crazy/wrong when I taste it and other people don't notice. I feel like it ruins many otherwise enjoyable wines.

I've had a pretty common experience with natural wines that taste relatively clean on the first night, and then the next day have developed mousiness. Would that be the type of thing that could result from less sulfur?

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


thalweg posted:

This is a really interesting post, thanks! Mouse has bothered me for years and it's the kind of thing that makes me feel crazy/wrong when I taste it and other people don't notice. I feel like it ruins many otherwise enjoyable wines.

I've had a pretty common experience with natural wines that taste relatively clean on the first night, and then the next day have developed mousiness. Would that be the type of thing that could result from less sulfur?

Some people don't taste mouse, or at the very least taste less of it or have a high tolerance for it. I don't know if it's because of variation in mouth pH (acidity suppresses mouse, which is why it mostly rears its head after the swallow, as your mouth comes back up in pH) or if it is neurological or whatever. I think some study showed that like a third of winemakers don't even taste it (although they have a vested interest in saying so of course). My girlfriend only gets it in extreme examples, and don't find it all that offensive.

That's common yeah; It's rare that I have tried a bottle that does not present as perfectly alright for at least 15 minutes even if it is moused to poo poo. The time lag appears to be connected to oxygen exposure, but there's not a lot known about exactly how this works. Like, we know Brett will produce more THP in the presence of oxygen, but Brett is not a very quick fermenter so it would be surprising to me for THP production to occur within hours of opening the bottle. Perhaps the oxygen makes existing THP more volatile, but that's sort of speculation. Sulfites can be used to control which organism are present during fermentation of the wine, it can be used to kill off organisms after said fermentation, and it acts as an oxygen scavenger. I think that all of those things could affect the prevalence of mouse, but some people also wonder if perhaps sulfites interact directly with THP somehow...

thotsky fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Oct 27, 2020

taco show
Oct 6, 2011

motherforker



hoooo boy: https://twitter.com/nytfood/status/1321870982383050752

I mean I knew it was bad but I didn't know it was THIS bad (I stopped before advanced). What a year for the CMS. Should they just burn it all to the ground? How do you even reform the court?

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


taco show posted:

hoooo boy: https://twitter.com/nytfood/status/1321870982383050752

I mean I knew it was bad but I didn't know it was THIS bad (I stopped before advanced). What a year for the CMS. Should they just burn it all to the ground? How do you even reform the court?
The idea of a small, elite, esoteric group of sommeliers being gatekeepers to wine is archaic and ridiculous. I do think there’s merit to wine education and instructing people in the finer points of service, but we ought to be able to have this without the baggage. It’ll be hard to look at anyone who wears the red/green pin without thinking of this article...

anakha
Sep 16, 2009


Say 'Thank you, Ershin'.

Say it.




got off on a technicality posted:

The idea of a small, elite, esoteric group of sommeliers being gatekeepers to wine is archaic and ridiculous.

Amen.

That reminds me though - I've been meaning to ask if the Wine for Normal People book is good. Thinking about getting a copy.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


Seems like a dumb concept; how can you want to learn about wine yet poo poo on anyone interested in arcane facts, particular producers and vintages? Like, is your ambition to stop once you're able to tell red from white?

Bape Culture
Sep 13, 2006


Can anyone help me bring out some flavours please. I was eating at a restaurant and the menu had the most wonderful torrontes (Susana Balbo Signature Torrontes 2018) and as a result I bought a full case. It was paired with a super rich duck dish and it made the wine have crazy tropical fruit flavours and sweetness.

How can I get that sort of flavour out of it again? Is there a cheese or something that will do it? On its own it just isn’t as enjoyable and id prefer to not require a whole meal. Thanks.

Ps: while we’re here, any recommendations similar to the above?

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Soiled Meat



Did a tasting of the anticipated 2019 Falkenstein recently and I was really blown away by some bottles being ready to drink now and others that will shine with age. They are all very high acid and will definitely age well; in addition, the QPR is fantastic as most bottles can be had in the $23 - $44 range, which is amazing.

Barrel numbers 4, 6, and 14 were readily accessible right now and super light on the palate with a lot of acid. I could easily crush a bottle myself at dinner with something spicy and not even really notice it. The alte reben is probably the most complex but requires a lot of air; if you were going to try it, I'd decant for at least 3 hours prior just so you can see its levels.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


People have been going absolutely gaga for Falkenstein. I tried their 2019 Krettnacher Euchariusberg Kabinett and thought it was decently good, maybe a tad dilute. Maybe it needed more air. Will have to try another at some point

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006



Soiled Meat

got off on a technicality posted:

People have been going absolutely gaga for Falkenstein. I tried their 2019 Krettnacher Euchariusberg Kabinett and thought it was decently good, maybe a tad dilute. Maybe it needed more air. Will have to try another at some point

Do you know which barrel number you were tasting? They do make a large difference since the bases are all the same before they go into different barrels, which are then sent to different regions.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


Furious Lobster posted:

Do you know which barrel number you were tasting? They do make a large difference since the bases are all the same before they go into different barrels, which are then sent to different regions.

Did not note the AP number, sadly. Was deep in my cups that evening (1990 Vougeot from a relatively unknown producer) and forgot to take pictures. Interesting to hear that there is some variation from barrel to barrel

Woofer
Mar 2, 2020



Hi goons.

I have been given the responsibility of choosing a wine for dinner tonight. I have never done this before and I don’t know anything about wine.

I am making meat lasagna and garlic bread. I was told to pair it with a Tuscany red, but you might as well tell me to get sandblasted milk water. It makes no sense, is what I’m saying.

How do I pick a wine at the store? It takes me an hour to pick something on Netflix. The wine aisle will be like that, except practically in a foreign language.

Thanks for the help!

E: to show how ignorant I am, after posting this I was told that there are stores just for wine. I didn’t know there were wine stores separate from liquor stores. I was told to call and talk to someone at the store so I’m going to do that. But I’m still looking for any tips for a complete beginner!

Woofer fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Nov 22, 2020

taco show
Oct 6, 2011

motherforker



Woofer posted:

Hi goons.

I have been given the responsibility of choosing a wine for dinner tonight. I have never done this before and I don’t know anything about wine.

I am making meat lasagna and garlic bread. I was told to pair it with a Tuscany red, but you might as well tell me to get sandblasted milk water. It makes no sense, is what I’m saying.

How do I pick a wine at the store? It takes me an hour to pick something on Netflix. The wine aisle will be like that, except practically in a foreign language.

Thanks for the help!

E: to show how ignorant I am, after posting this I was told that there are stores just for wine. I didn’t know there were wine stores separate from liquor stores. I was told to call and talk to someone at the store so I’m going to do that. But I’m still looking for any tips for a complete beginner!

Hah this is probably too late for dinner tonight but generally, “grown together goes together”. So Italian isn’t a bad call... but you can really go for anything red and darker with meat and garlic.

If you’re looking for quality of wine, the more specific the label is about where it’s grown generally the wine is better. Ex: “California red” < “Napa Valley” < “Howell Mountain”.

If you’re at a store, Vivino is a GREAT app for newbies- just scan the wine label and it’ll show you reviews and tasting notes

If you want a book, good beginner ones are Wine Folly (pretty diagrams!) and The Wine Bible (more narrative, detailed). If you want a book to just tell you what to do, get What to Drink with What You Eat.

Also, honestly at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how fancy your wine is or how good your pairing is as long as you’re enjoying the wine. Think of it more as an exploration as opposed to “getting it right”. It’s only five glasses after all and you can always make sangria if you hate it.

Crimson
Nov 6, 2002


Chianti was the easy answer! Can't go wrong with that food. It's a region in Tuscany that grows the red Sangiovese grape and turns it into red wines that taste something like pizza. Tomato, thyme, oregano, basil are all words I use to describe those reds. Hope your dinner is going well.

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007



Clapping Larry

The real question is how are you making lasagne without wine in the first place.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


If it is not a terrible store there should be someone there who would be very happy to give you a recommendation if you let them know what you will be having and what your budget is. Wine-searcher and Vivino is nice if you like sifting through reviews and data yourself.

A Tuscan (region) red often means Sangiovese (grape), like found in a Chianti. That's a decent pairing. I think any red works pretty well for classic lasagna as long as it has a decent amount of acidity and it is not super light.

idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000

i don't care!

Bape Culture posted:

Can anyone help me bring out some flavours please. I was eating at a restaurant and the menu had the most wonderful torrontes (Susana Balbo Signature Torrontes 2018) and as a result I bought a full case. It was paired with a super rich duck dish and it made the wine have crazy tropical fruit flavours and sweetness.

How can I get that sort of flavour out of it again? Is there a cheese or something that will do it? On its own it just isn’t as enjoyable and id prefer to not require a whole meal. Thanks.

Ps: while we’re here, any recommendations similar to the above?

You can always try duck rillettes I guess.

Other than that play with serving temperature and decanting/time opened. Temp especially can have a huge effect on white wine aromatics; if you’re drinking it fridge cold you’re probably losing a big chunk of the wine. My Albariño & rose both typically drink much better at 60-65 degrees F than they do colder, and they can also take at least a little bit of air to open up.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.



Should you store wine horizontally, vertically, or tilted upwards? If only storing for a few days, it probably doesn't matter, but if storing long-term... ?

Here's an article - https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2018/06/storing-wine-on-its-side-is-bullsht-says-scientist/

quote:

During a discussion in Portugal last week, Cabral said that the headspace of a sealed bottle of wine was so moist that there was no need to place bottles on their side to keep the cork damp.

“The cork will never dry out with almost 100% humidity in the headspace, so it is a myth that you need to store a bottle on its side,” he said.

Continuing, he said that such humidity would ensure that the cork “won’t dry out if you store the bottle upright.”

He also said that creating moist ambient conditions during wine storage was unnecessary for bottled wine (although for barrel cellars it is important to reduce evaporation).

“The humidity of the environment around the bottle won’t have any influence, because the cork is influenced by the humidity inside the bottle,” he said, adding, “So the idea that you need to store wine in a damp cellar is another myth.”

He then stated, “The myths are falling down one by one now the cork industry has started doing studies.”

When asked later by the drinks business why wet corks in older wines are sometimes shrunken, he said that having the stopper permanently soaked by wine might actually accelerate the weakening of the cork’s cell structure.

In other words, not only is it unnecessary to keep the cork wet, it may actually be bad for the stopper.

Summing up, he said that such knowledge was nothing new in the scientific community.

“The AWRI published a paper on this back in 2005, but the problem is that people don’t read research papers, they just want the news,” he commented.

Finally, making his views clear, he stated, “The idea that storing a wine on its side to stop the cork drying out is bullsh•t.”

Previously, he recorded that 95-98% humidity in the headspace was high enough to ensure the passage of phenolics as well as taints from the cork into the wine – which would explain the presence of cork-derived TCA in a wine that had been stored upright.

As for factors that accelerate the evolution of wine in the bottle, aside from the failure of the seal – whatever the closure type – it is temperature that has the greatest affect, as higher temperatures speed up chemical reactions.

The study referenced by Cabral was published in 2005 by Skouroumounis et al from the Australian Wine Research Institute and it is entitled, ‘The impact of closure type and storage conditions on the composition, colour and flavour properties of a Riesling and a wooded Chardonnay wine during five years’ storage.

In the abstract it states “The bottle orientation during storage under the conditions of this study had little effect on the composition and sensory properties of the wines examined.”

Comb Your Beard
Sep 28, 2007

Chillin' like a villian.

Going kinda crazy on winebid this week. Justifying it by saying the shipping goes up less fast as the quantity goes up and I got a $30 wine beserker coupon.

Bape Culture
Sep 13, 2006


idiotsavant posted:

You can always try duck rillettes I guess.

Other than that play with serving temperature and decanting/time opened. Temp especially can have a huge effect on white wine aromatics; if you’re drinking it fridge cold you’re probably losing a big chunk of the wine. My Albariño & rose both typically drink much better at 60-65 degrees F than they do colder, and they can also take at least a little bit of air to open up.

Ah I bet you’re right! Thanks buddy

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Someone one a Norwegian FB page posted this, their Avintage wine fridge threw a tantrum and got hot. Seems like it might have been a peltier type. If I ever get one, it will be a compressor.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


The 2019 Robinot Fetembulles has a surprising amount of RS. Heightens the apple and pushes it more into cider territory. It's still very good, and critics seem to love it, but I liked it as a cheaper alternative to grower champagne and it no longer really fits into that niche. Maybe with some age.

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Got a big STEM up my asshole.


Recommend me a ~$50 Champagne (specifically, not Prosecco or something), probably brut, that's reasonably available at a wine shop in a major US city. Any suggestions of producers or anything? I'll talk to the shop people but wanted to go in with some idea of what I should look out for.

If this price point is stupid or if the distribution of champagne is such that it's impossible to know what kind of stocks to expect, recommend something outside of it.

PRADA SLUT fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Dec 4, 2020

obi_ant
Apr 8, 2005



PRADA SLUT posted:

Recommend me a ~$50 Champagne (specifically, not Prosecco or something), probably brut, that's reasonably available at a wine shop in a major US city. Any suggestions of producers or anything? I'll talk to the shop people but wanted to go in with some idea of what I should look out for.

If this price point is stupid or if the distribution of champagne is such that it's impossible to know what kind of stocks to expect, recommend something outside of it.

What city are you from?

sivad
Feb 28, 2005




PRADA SLUT posted:

Recommend me a ~$50 Champagne (specifically, not Prosecco or something), probably brut, that's reasonably available at a wine shop in a major US city. Any suggestions of producers or anything? I'll talk to the shop people but wanted to go in with some idea of what I should look out for.

If this price point is stupid or if the distribution of champagne is such that it's impossible to know what kind of stocks to expect, recommend something outside of it.

I really like all of the following, in that price range:
Bereche & Fils, Brut Reserve
Chartogne-Taillet Cuvee St. Anne
Agrapart & Fils '7 crus'
Pierre Peters Cuvee de Reserve (sometimes creeps closer to $60)

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


It's not a dumb price point or nothing, but I don't really understand the question. If you're specifically looking for a big name Champagne in the 50$ range you can basically just pick any one from the shelf. It will taste like big name champagne. Taittinger, Louis Roederer, Billecart-Salmon, Bollinger, Veuve Cliquot...

It's hard to really recommend something specific if it has to be available easily.

consensual poster
Sep 1, 2009



sivad posted:

Bereche & Fils, Brut Reserve

This is probably the best answer if you can find it in your city. Everyone from non-drinkers to wine nerds should enjoy it.

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Got a big STEM up my asshole.


Seattle, if it matters

Bape Culture
Sep 13, 2006


I’d always pick taittinger personally

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Got a big STEM up my asshole.


thotsky posted:

It's not a dumb price point or nothing, but I don't really understand the question. If you're specifically looking for a big name Champagne in the 50$ range you can basically just pick any one from the shelf. It will taste like big name champagne. Taittinger, Louis Roederer, Billecart-Salmon, Bollinger, Veuve Cliquot...

It's hard to really recommend something specific if it has to be available easily.

I’m aware that it’s going to be based on distribution and availability, which is why I was looking for a handful of names to look out for.

taco show
Oct 6, 2011

motherforker



What’s everyone’s go-to champagne anyway? I’m a sucker for Gimmonet Special Club. Reasonable price point but refined enough to stand up to some of the big houses.

My bargain favorite is Etienne Doue ($30 in chicago).

I’m also on the hunt for 100% Pinot Meunier just cause I want to know if it’s noticeably different. I think egly makes one but I haven’t found it while casually shopping.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


Louis Roederer Brut Premier and Taittinger Brut Reserve are usually priced very well at the duty free so I pick them up a fair bit.

I don't usually go out of my way to buy Champagne otherwise since there's so much good petnat and organic cava to be had for less, but when I do it's Brut Nature grower stuff like Roses de Jeanne (Cédric Bouchard).

Pierre Peters is also nice.

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


Bape Culture posted:

I’d always pick taittinger personally

I am a big Taittinger fan too but would, at this price point, suggest Pol Roger Reserve (white foil). It is available everywhere

Also seconding Pierre Peters if you can find it

got off on a technicality fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Dec 7, 2020

got off on a technicality
Feb 7, 2007

oh dear


taco show posted:

I’m also on the hunt for 100% Pinot Meunier just cause I want to know if it’s noticeably different. I think egly makes one but I haven’t found it while casually shopping.
You have to try Mousse Fils, particularly their Special Club Fortes Terres. It's oddly great with spicy food

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Finally opened the single BoJo I bought, Laurent Perrachon. Half yesterday, too much banana. The rest now, almost no banana but not much else either. Faint rose petals and cherries. But I like the dense juicy texture. It's rich and dark with just a hint of tannins. Really really well made, but made from something I don't really love that much.

So, tips for other dark and juicy styles that aren't Gamay?

Btw Norwegians, I tried a white Burgundy, just a simple regional one from Jadot, to the classic eastern Norway Christmas ribbe and it worked perfectly to fatty pork, suet sausage, brown gravy and sauerkraut. A not too expensive one is perfect I think, you'll want to avoid too much tropical fruit, too much acidity or too much matchstick/toasted wood. Fat texture, good acidity and some butter/oak, nails it. And yet everybody drinks Spanish red!

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


Ola posted:

Finally opened the single BoJo I bought, Laurent Perrachon. Half yesterday, too much banana. The rest now, almost no banana but not much else either. Faint rose petals and cherries. But I like the dense juicy texture. It's rich and dark with just a hint of tannins. Really really well made, but made from something I don't really love that much.

So, tips for other dark and juicy styles that aren't Gamay?

Btw Norwegians, I tried a white Burgundy, just a simple regional one from Jadot, to the classic eastern Norway Christmas ribbe and it worked perfectly to fatty pork, suet sausage, brown gravy and sauerkraut. A not too expensive one is perfect I think, you'll want to avoid too much tropical fruit, too much acidity or too much matchstick/toasted wood. Fat texture, good acidity and some butter/oak, nails it. And yet everybody drinks Spanish red!

Sounds like you're just not wired for Gamay. I have only had banana like once or twice and I drink gamay more than anything.

My experience (and practice) is that people go high acid chenin with ribbe. To cut fatty pork and sometimes buttery mashed potatoes, and stand up to acidic sourkraut and cranberry jam.

I will be doing a Robinot Chenin Pet Nat this year, but I wish I had brought a white burgundy to try your recommendation.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Dec 21, 2020

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot


The other night I had a syrah from Pierre Gonon called Les Iles Feray that was really nice and juicy and drinkable like Gamay the first night, but more serious and tannic the second.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



No, I'm really not wired for it. I'm not entirely sure banana is the right word for it, but it's something like that anyway. I get the same flavor in wheat beer and Trappist. I like bananas though!

Thanks for the Gonon tip, it's on my radar. There was a variant released recently that got a great review, but my order didn't get filled.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply