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4/20 NEVER FORGET posted:2008 Château Yvonne Saumur-Champigny (France, Loire Valley, Anjou-Saumur, Saumur-Champigny) - I'm not a huge fan of Cab Franc from this region, I've had many good ones but nothing that ever wowed me. No notes on your vintage but if you look into previous vintages it seems to be a nice bottle of wine. Loire Cab franc or Saumur Cf? I think I've only had Saumur rose (delicious, delicious rose!) but easiest Loire Cab franc I've had is from Baudry or the Bretons. I think Jean-Paul Brun does some as well (also some great Chenin blanc inc. sparkles); all three import under Lynch or Louis/Dressner.
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Sep 26, 2011 06:00
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pork never goes bad posted:Benito also mentioned real estate, which is fair enough. Unknown or less popular region wines can often be a great QPR. I like the Loire Valley for whites, and increasingly for reds. Of course, I've read more about wine than I've drunk right now, so perhaps take some of the recommendations I make with a grain of salt, but trying some wines from different regions can lead you to make some general rules that let you buy blind and be satisfied more often. Here's a really good blog post from Tablas Creek that goes into a little more detail regarding land costs & how they affect wine costs, at least in California.
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Oct 1, 2011 04:37
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rangersilme posted:Also, my last classes in biology and chemistry were (sadly) in high school. I'm currently an engineering student, so while I've largely forgotten everything since then I feel I might be able to try to learn some of it without (hopefully) too much difficulty. Are there any resources you would suggest to look into? Such as the more hard-core microbiology/chemistry books or books geared more toward wine-making? I wouldn't worry very much about adjusting tartaric or chapetalizing (ie adding sugar) or anything else if it's your first time making home wine. Worry about proper sanitation, getting your SO2 additions right, and proper inoculations. It's easy enough to get the basic things down and make perfectly drinkable wine - there's no need to go crazy worrying about acidification or enzymes or other extra details the first time around.
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Oct 13, 2011 22:03
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Here's another very thorough explanation of German wine and wine law.
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Oct 15, 2011 03:10
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pork never goes bad posted:Does anybody know of varietal Picpoul or Vermentino wine? I'm not super familiar with the grapes, and I suppose I should look them up, but I'd be interested to taste what they are like more "front and center" as it were.
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Oct 24, 2011 15:18
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Yeah, I think I remember the latest release being priced significantly higher. I've had one of his reds as well, and it was very nice - distinctive and earthy and complex. It was a funny experience, because the earthiness was very similar to the earthiness in the wines of the winemaker I'm working with, and when we drank the Arena at dinner we were all teasing him about it.
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Oct 26, 2011 16:10
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As I posted earlier, Antoine Arena in Corsica does Vermentino; he's imported by Kermit Lynch. I'd check out the Lynch portfolio for Picpoul as well, and especially for Languedoc-Rousillon blends that contain either or both grapes.
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Nov 16, 2011 04:57
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pork never goes bad posted:Thanks Stitecin, idiotsavant. I did buy a bottle of Antoine Arena's Vermentino from KL, and have a few bottles of Picpoul de Pinet waiting at K&L for me. Funnily enough, I read Tablas Creek's pages on the grapes when I initially asked about them, but never bit the bullet and bought a bottle. Disclaimer 'cause I'm working harvest with them, but I think you'd really like Clos Saron. Tiny (600-800 cases/yr) Foothills winery with some amazing Syrah blends and a really nice Pinot that hews much closer to Old World style - more austere, nice acidity, and very, very ageable. If you're in the East Bay you can find them at Solano Cellars and their various offshoots, and if you're in SF they're at Terroir, Arlequin, and Cal-Mart by the park. Try to find a bottle of the 2010 Out of the Blue if you can - it's 130-yo Lodi Cinsault vines with a little bit of Foothills Syrah mixed in, and it's fun as hell to drink. Light, happy, great acidity; it's a killer food wine. Terroir might still have some, not sure about the other spots.
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Nov 18, 2011 06:35
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pork never goes bad posted:I love the few Clos Saron wines I have tried. There are a few places that have some of their bottles. I've not tried their Pinot as I tend to dislike Pinot as compared to, well, most other red grapes. I have tried a Syrah rose, as well as a Syrah/Cinsault(?) blend. Same wine, different vintages. I also tried a white they made. ETA - that's awesome that you are working Harvest with them, by the way. One day, I would like to do something like that, but work intrudes. The Cinsault/Syrah blend is the one I recommended; it's goddamn delicious. Their roses are really nice, too - we just bottled the 2011 white and rose today, and they're yummy. I've had a few vintages of the rose, and it's kind of amazing to drink a 2005 CA rose out of half-bottles and have it show consistently well. The Syrah-based red blends are a little more serious, but they're also delicious, and when they're out in full form they're magnificent. Also buy 2005 Huet Petillant but for goodness sake don't drink it now you babykillers!
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Nov 19, 2011 06:48
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On the other hand, I know a farmer who likes Biodynamics but primarily because it helps him feel more connected to the soil and to the plants he farms. Sure, there's a bunch of mumbo-jumbo in there but if it helps him be more a part of the system instead of completely imposing his control on everything then more power to him. Like pork said, these days organic farming is still industrial farming. Biod seems to be a little better than that, but it's already been co-opted and manipulated in more than a few ways (ie copper sprays and so on). One of the latest bits making the rounds is an interview with Didier Barrouillet of Clos Roche Blanche - link here. Really interesting stuff, and a much better way of looking at the vineyard. Also I know that the article writer was just trying to get cute, but can people drop the "natural wine is just vinegar har har har!" bullshit already? Yes, when you plant a vineyard and train grapes to grow on stakes and prune them every year and so on and so forth you are making interventions. But there's a difference between spraying every inch of your irrigated Ruby Cabernet with Roundup and pesticides and in doing what you can to reduce the effects of creating monoculture environments. I'm not waving a flag for the "natural wine movement" or anything, but most vineyards tend more towards the former example than towards Didier's.
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Dec 8, 2011 20:38
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AriTheDog posted:I suppose you're probably right in the context of wine, though. I certainly haven't toured any organic wineries, but I'd bet that they're doing exactly what you're saying, and I suppose if the biodynamic certification is proof of responsible farming techniques, then great. I just wish it didn't require the bullshit, and I have some reservations about giving money to organizations that buy into that kind of quackery. It's probably going to turn into the next organic farming - I think you can already buy pre-prepped sprays and supplies and follow the letter but not the intent. Like you say, you basically need to know your producers and know what they do in the vineyard and in the winery. If a vingeron is working in a truly sustainable fashion I don't care if he or she is working organically, biodynamically, or without certification at all. I'm sure many biodynamic supporters are dogmatic as all get out, and I've certainly met people who are insanely over the top about getting organic certification. That doesn't mean that it can't be a tool that some vingerons use to make a better approach.
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Dec 9, 2011 00:06
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Baudry is the poo poo. Les Granges and the normal domaine cuvee are both great, and really affordable for what you get in the bottle. I met him and his wife at the Fort Mason Kermit Lynch tasting last year, and he seemed like a very nice guy as well.
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Dec 10, 2011 19:33
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nwin posted:So it sounds like the spouts are worth it as it does what decanting does, but quicker? There's a special method you can use to decant more thoroughly if you're trying to get some air into the wine. The trick is to use TWO mason jars instead of just one, and pour the wine back and forth once or twice. Very technical; don't gently caress it up. There is literally one reason to buy a nice decanter for wine: aesthetic appeal. If you can't afford a nice decanter (they can be expensive!), using a $10 Ikea carafe or even just a clean, quart-sized mason jar works just about the exact same way. Slosh the wine in, give it a swirl, voila! There is no reason to buy those silly spout pourers. As far as decanting goes, some wines need it, some wines don't. AFAIK there are a few very broad guidelines (like, usually decant younger, tighter reds) but it really comes down to the specific wine in question, and has little to do with something like price point. For example, I have a bunch of St. Chinian (red wine blend from the Languedoc region) that I bought for like $12/bottle that really comes together after it sees a little air. There are plenty of wines out there that would cost you more and would fall apart after too much aeration. Some older wines need aeration to come alive; some go to pieces. If you're interested in decanting, start experimenting. Open the bottle of wine you're drinking for the evening and pour an extra glass. Stick it in the corner somewhere and go taste it after an hour or so, then after another hour, etc, and try to note if the wine changes and how it changes. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, sometimes it's frozen in time. The big thing to remember is that you don't need anything special to do so - I've seen Gevrey-Chambertin decanted into a (clean!) milk jar, and it worked just fine.
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Dec 28, 2011 05:03
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Plastic Jesus posted:I intend to make wine after the fall harvest, but before dropping a decent amount of coin on grapes and renting equipment I want to get familiar with the process. You can make perfectly drinkable wine without spending much and without all of the technological hoo-hah. Really, all you need are clean grapes and a clean container to ferment them in. Get a few hundred pounds of something, footstomp it and ferment stems and all, and inoculate if you're concerned with that kind of thing (although you don't need to necessarily). I know a guy who pressed a small batch by tossing his must in a pumpover strainer and then footstomping it. Sure, you aren't going to get amazing Gallo 110% yield or anything, but you'll get absolutely drinkable wine. At the most the equipment you'd need to rent would be one of the small basket presses and then a bottle filler + bottle corker once it's time to bottle. Maybe buy a few carboys. It's totally doable, don't worry so much about all the sciency stuff! On another note I know a bunch of people in here are Riesling fans - you can get 1988 Renaissance Late Harvest Riesling for $45 for a 750ml, and it blows equivalently priced German stuff out of the water. I'm finishing off a bottle that I opened for Christmas dinner. There was a bit of cork seepage, but it's goddamn delicious. edit: I can't knock decanters that hard - it can be a true pleasure to use a nice decanter (especially with a treasured older bottle), and I'd love to own one of the Rare Wine Co decanters. idiotsavant fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Dec 28, 2011 |
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Dec 28, 2011 09:52
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4/20 NEVER FORGET posted:On young wines with no sediment I've stopped using my decanter and just give them the "Mollydooker shake". What, no blender?
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Dec 28, 2011 20:58
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Plastic Jesus posted:I like the sciency stuff, and I enjoy the process of making things. I figure that if I'm going to bother getting and taking care of 100 lbs of grapes I should try to do the best with them I can. No idea on the corkers. I've only ever used a manual corker, but it's still "professional" or industrial or whatever you want to call it. If you're doing 100 lbs of grapes you'll end up with like 2-3 cases; I'd skip getting a bottler and just siphon it all. Maybe get a valve or one of the clamp dealies such that you can siphon and cork a bottle at a time. If anything you could just use crown caps as long as they fit the bottles you're using. Just rack it all into a clean container and blanket with some CO2 while you bottle - hell, you could probably use a large water cooler and fill straight from the spout. Just use whatever normal beer sanitizer you have to clean it first. Dunno what area you live in, but in CA you can check Craigslist and get grapes for something like 80 cents a pound. Or you can try contacting vineyards, telling them you're a home winemaker, and asking if you can glean seconds after they pick through.
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Dec 29, 2011 18:14
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As long as it includes Pepiere...
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Jan 4, 2012 00:13
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Baudry does a very nice Chinon rose. If you're looking for Cali rose wait a bit and try to find Clos Saron's 2011 Tickled Pink; we bottled about a month ago & it's frickin' delicious.
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Jan 9, 2012 20:33
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smn posted:This is most interesting - I have lived by the 'white for fish, red for anything else' mantra until now. Thinking about it, a fatty salmon with black pepper seasoning sounds like a good match for a red. A lighter red - something like Loire Cab Franc, Frappato, Jura Plousard, etc. If you want to pair food well with wine focus more on basics like structure and acidity rather than various aromas that everyone interprets differently. Also sherry can be a very nice dinner wine as well; for example Amontillados are wonderful with pork dishes. Basically don't limit yourself to the conventional wisdom bullshit!!
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Feb 3, 2012 22:27
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pork never goes bad posted:Given the reputation of the vintage, and the 89 from Parker, this wine (which is drinking really rather well now, could go a little longer, though probably won't hold up the 15 years Parker gives it), can be had for a song, often less than the current release. It smells a little older than it is, with some black tea, cedar and herbs on the nose. Blackcurrant-y fruit in the mouth. Tannins feel a little disjointed, maybe, but the finish is really great with juicy fruit and minerality to boot. It's a very nice wine for the price, and I give it 2 thumbs up! I really want to get better at buying good wines from lovely Bordeaux vintages once I get some more spending money together, because it seems like you can get excellent value - very nice wines with some age on them at very reasonable price points. I have a few bottles left of Renaissance '96 Claret, which was a terrible year according to the winemaker. Very unripe fruit, difficult harvest; he said he was tearing his hair out on the crushpad. 18 years later it's a delicate, graceful cab that you'd never expect from California. Buying Bordeaux seems like such a numbers shitfest that I'm sure there are plenty of good lower growths from bad vintages that can be bought on the cheap.
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Feb 4, 2012 04:53
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Cpt.Wacky posted:Thanks, I managed to dig out around the broken bit enough to twist it out with pliers. Then I put a drywall screw through the cork and used a claw hammer to pry it out. Life finds a way 
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Feb 14, 2012 09:30
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Uh, a whole lot of poo poo from the Loire and or Languedoc/Rousillon and maybe Spain and etc etc etc. Try to find something from Domaine Baudry or Domaine Rimbert or like a bajillion other vignerons. It seems like a great time to be drinking wine to me. edit: White - get you some Muscadet from Domaine de la Pepiere. You don't need their top cuve, you need the $13 poo poo that you chug on a summer day.
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Feb 21, 2012 09:47
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I think the biggest problem with the various natural wine movements aren't necessarily the winemakers, but the writers, bloggers, and other bits of flotsam surrounding them. Most of the "natural" winemakers don't give a poo poo about the label; they care more about the wine. It's all the writers and bloggers around the business that stir up the pot, and for most it's because they're grasping for something with real meaning while doing poo poo all thats actually meaningful. Anyways I just got a couple cases of some sweet sparkling 8% Gamay (La Bulle Gamay from P-U-R) and this stuff is loving magical. I drank half a bottle last night & my panties dropped so hard I'm not gonna be able to wear them for another week.
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May 31, 2012 08:03
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Murgos posted:This sentence has no apparent meaning. It has words and they seem to be in some sort of order but there is no actual substance there. Define an 'true or honest wine' in some way that has meaning other than "didn't use some long established methodology and got a good result anyway" and maybe I'd be able to parse it. "Hurrrr de durr I don't pick no bottles off no natural vines all winemaking is interventionist yurp yurp yurp." Other than egotistical bloggers, this is the other thing that makes the natural wine "debate" loving stupid. Go listen to actual old school "natural" vingerons. Marcel Lapierre for example: clearly a dude who valued spiritual wine mumbo-jumbo over technical analysis and science.
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Jun 4, 2012 06:51
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I am loving so in love with petillant naturel right now. I have like three cases of sparkling Loire Gamay and I'm thinking about getting more. It isn't much of a panty-dropper; it's more of a panty-liquifier-as-they-fly-straight-out-the-windower. Not that I want to overburden their pretty busy mailing list, but check out Selection Massale if you're interested. La Bulle Gamay from P-U-R and Buena Onda from Jeremy Quastana. The latter is a new vigneron who worked under Olivier Lemasson; buy some of his wines cause they're fuckin legit, because he's loving legit, and because he just lost 100% of his fruit this year (frost damage afaik) and could use the support. He does a Cot that's also nice - I tried a bit and it was very light and feminine, almost more like a Gamay.
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Jun 15, 2012 04:02
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You're in the bay iirc, so picking up shouldn't be too hard. Seriously recommend you try ordering through them - just about everything I've had so far has been great, basically to the point that I don't really question things anymore. Start easy - I think they still have some '09 Debize Morgon; it's loving awesome for the price. There's a lesser cuvée that's also awesome, L'homme du veste or something like that. And P-U-R stuff is consistently yummy. Some of the wine they sell is serious business but a lot is also "glou-glou" - cellerable or not, it doesn't matter cause you're gonna drink the hell out of it before it gets old.
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Jun 16, 2012 06:22
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Dammit, I like a little bell pepper in my Cab. Especially Cab franc; it almost feels wrong when there's no green/herbaceousness/bell pepper to be found. Fruit isn't everything!!
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Jun 23, 2012 01:48
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Yeah, I guess it should go without saying that you aren't looking to get that from leaves and unripe berries. Stem inclusion can be a nice thing, though, assuming your grapes can take it & it fits your wine style. There was a hilarious post on one of the wine boards where one of the frequent tasters was bemoaning stem inclusion - I think he said something like anything over 15% was terrible and claimed that he could taste the difference between 15 and 20%.
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Jun 23, 2012 17:11
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Thick, smooth, sweet: go find ye some Banyuls. It's yummy stuff.
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Jul 6, 2012 18:58
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Bual has some viscosity to it, but it still carries a pretty hefty dose of acidity. If you're going to go with Madeira get Malmsey. If she likes to drink dessert wine by itself there is literally nothing better For the price than late harvest Riesling. I didn't suggest it at first because it's typically a little lighter, but as a standalone wine beerenauslese and TBA can be a mind blowing experience. I'm not particularly knowledgeable, but you can probably find beerenauslese half-bottles for very decent prices relative to the experience you'll have.
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Jul 7, 2012 07:51
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4/20 NEVER FORGET posted:I think they must get a lot of people just looking to get sauced so when someone shows up that is actually paying attention to what they are tasting, that seems to open the doors to more things.
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Jul 15, 2012 21:14
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pork never goes bad posted:and a Pinot which was literally undrinkable though I couldn't identify specific flaws. oh Cali Pinot, how I love thee, let me count the ways  ...tho I do have a bottle of 2000 Renaissance that I'm looking forward to!
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Jul 16, 2012 07:58
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There is definitely some good Cali Pinot out there. Restrained, graceful, etc. The problem is that wading past the oaky, unbalanced, acidless fruit grenades can be loving torture.
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Jul 17, 2012 09:01
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Rustic pastoral poo poo example = took brix and did punch downs, picked grapes for 4 hours in the blazing hot sun on the second pass, destemmed & foot stomped, had lunch and a nap, took brix & did punch downs, had a beer and dinner, collapsed in bed. Variations on picking/destemming include: cleaned poo poo, pressed, moved wine around, despaired over powdery mildew and bird damage. It's sort of interesting, but it's a lot better to experience it than to read about it. Not to say harvest journals aren't cool, tho
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Aug 10, 2012 00:53
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There are lots of wineries that ferment through native yeasts (although using words like "native" and "wild" are a touch inaccurate, afaik), and thanks to the Herculean efforts of wine bloggers there are entire tea parties worth of tempests to sort through regarding natural wine. Funny part is, most of the real vingerons (actual farmer/winemakers) really don't give a poo poo about the blogfest; they're just passionate about the farming & winemaking
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Nov 6, 2012 02:40
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4liters posted:Un-inoculated ferments can be risky and where I've seen it done commercially it's been a small batch that makes up part of a larger blend. There's some element of chance, but it feels like if you're farming right and growing the right varieties for the area (ie you don't end up with crazy, out-of-balance grapes at harvest), native ferments are really not a big deal. The biggest challenge is letting go of your control and not acting - I mean, if it's a little stinky give it an extra punchdown or two, but for the most part if you have healthy grapes and a healthy winery you don't see very many problems.
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Nov 8, 2012 17:45
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I'm speaking through a pico-boutique point of view... Guy I worked with does approximately 600-700 cases, so usually a macro bin or two at a time. If you're doing larger lots you could always pre-start a couple of small fermentations just in case and use them to inoculate any troubled ferments...
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Nov 9, 2012 09:18
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That reminds me... The winemaker made his first Pinot back in the mid-90's. Harvest was in full swing, and the then tiny amount of Pinot had been picked and crushed into a picking bin, with a pretty good chunk of Chardonnay tossed in as well (like 30%). It was basically forgotten most of the way through harvest - not inoculated or really even touched afaik, and then just pressed off and bottled on the lees. The few remaining bottles look hilarious, because there's literally about an inch of lees sitting on the bottom. Not tartaric deposits or sediment, but straight lees. The wine tastes great 18 years on, but pouring the last few sips is even trickier than normal...
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Nov 10, 2012 21:22
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4liters posted:You should flog them to some trendy winebar as natural wine.
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Nov 13, 2012 05:14
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| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 22:38 |
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Perfectly Cromulent posted:Cru Beaujolais. It's delicious, it's good with a variety of foods, it pleases wine nerds and grandmas alike, AND it's inexpensive. You can get a really solid bottle of Cru Beaujolais for $20. This, this, this. loving everybody says Pinot noir, but everyone goes and gets CA Pinot, which has turned into lovely massive fruit bombs for the most part. Beaujolais is generally much lighter and graceful, and you can get awesome, affordable stuff as well. I brought a sweet Gamay petnat and a 2009 (or was it '10?) Debize Morgon that went great with everything on the table. Also shared a bottle of white 05 Arena Patrimonio - I picked up half a case for like $15/bottle. A third have been flawed (thus the price afaik), but the good ones make it worth the try.
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Nov 23, 2012 20:16
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